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Fenella.2634
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Laranthir? (spoilers)
Fenella.2634
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in Lore
I'm quite surprised noone has discussed Laranthir yet. Was he still Almorra's second-in-command by the time of Whisper in the Dark? If so, he should be the next leader of the Vigil.
In the story I get the impression that Jhavi could well take this place, but maybe she is just supposed to take over the keep.
Is Laranthir still part of the story, or did he resign sometime ago offscreen? If he's still around, he should return to the limelight very soon.
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It's hard to say. We've not heard of him since HoT.
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Alright, I thought I might have missed or forgotten something.
So we have to wait and see what happens.
I think Laranthir is still the guy supposed to lead the Vigil. As I understood it, Jhavi is in charge of Jora's Keep and the whole mess things have become there.
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
Working on the assumption Laranthir wasn't forcibly retired, voluntarily retired, or demoted due to the events of HoT (first and last seems very unlikely), he should be the one to lead the Vigil post-Almorra, as he stated in the personal story. He is the second-in-command as of pre-HoT. But since HoT utterly botched the sylvari discrimination storyline, and it's not been touched since HoT outside of the Zephyrites during Festival of the Four Winds (which is rather out of character for them to blame the entire race for Aerin's/Mordremoth's actions), I don't see how we can draw an accurate conclusion.
Though dialogue of Jhavi taking over is present and, imo, a bit out of place unless it's referring to the keep, but Almorra wasn't the one in charge of the keep. To explain those dialogues, I'd assume either a) the HoT situation resulted in Jhavi becoming the Second-in-Command (Laranthir demoted); b) they're meaning that with the prior Keep officer gone, they thought Almorra would take over, but with Almorra dead they now believe Jhavi will be the one to take over the keep/operation until further notice; or c) they're just supporters of Jhavi and want her to take leadership of the Vigil, even though she's not Second-in-Command.
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Or they just forgot everything about Laranthir because that guy was during HoT, and HoT is past from long ago, and not so many devs are still sticking around from that time. So, the few who could know about him have probably forgotten everything.
And Icebrood saga is supposed to be about Norns and Charrs, not Sylvaris, so why bother about that talking lettuce and self-consistency ?
Let's just hope I'm just being exceedingly sarcastic, and that I'll get a happy surprise seeing Laranthir again and prove me wrong.
Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.
That's what I'm a bit concerned about.
Then again, Jhavi is also a rather old character. She was also present during the Personal Story, even though she didn't really have dialogue back then and was just a named background NPC. So, if they dug her up, they must have noticed Laranthir, too.
If he appears again, it will probably be like HoT, commanding some larger scale operation. By the end of Dragon Stand meta hes still safe, so theres no reason to put him as "recovering" status.
Also the writers probably want heavy focus on norm/charr, so the excuse that Vigil is "recovering of Bjora Massacre"(so they cant build up a largar scale operation) will be maintened to keep Laranthir/the pact as whole in offscreen.
Another good excuse to keep him offscreen is him wyldhunt(As far as I know nobody knows what it is so it can be filled with anything).
as side note: theres lots of vigil leaders that live "offscreen". Warmaster Efut was near onipresent in personal history, them "disapeared", the misterious "Lord Rodrigo"(notable also for no wearing a armor) with alongside pre-saga Jhavi, they all arent seen outside the Keep for a long time.
-- Atlantean Sword --
The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."
Gonna be a good thing to bring up in upcoming content imo.
Might finally be time to round off that Sylvari discrimination thing specially now that we're all dealing with a Dragon who is essentially doing something similar to Mordremoth only this time it's on all the races.
A Sylvari who resisted Mordremoth is likely the best to lead the vigil since he'd have the most experience fighting against this kind of Dragon power.
A good time to bring back Laranthir imo and have him fill a big role.
That would not prevent the Pact from sending in a fleet of airships and troops like they did at Thunderhead Peaks and Dragonfall. Granted, the losses at Thunderhead Peaks is probably something to keep them occupied. I won't expect Pact forces until Episode 3 at the earliest, and even that would just be the vanguard forces like in S4E4.
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Maybe he's still stranded at Dragon's Stand, trying to figure out how to get up "that tree".
Jokes aside, all sylvari commanders are destined to die an atrocious death, so maybe it's better if he doesn't.
As we saw in Personal Story, people are often recruited out of the Orders into the Pact entirely. After Heart of Thorns, Laranthir after successfully leading the assault on an Elder Dragon, probably has a cushy job in the Pact not far below Logan.
That said the other Commanders could've "retired" like our character did, we haven't seen them since HoT.
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I think Laranthir will become the new leader of the vigil. Jhavi is just running the keep, but with her set up as a new character that’s central in this saga, I wouldn’t be surprised to see her take laranthir’s old position as second in command
I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us
Would like to know as well, though I suspect reason will be as simple as no VA anymore given they even changed Kasmeer's one.
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Kasmeer sounded the same during Bound By Blood. Is that a more recent development? Or do you mean Rox's VA that was changed for S4E2.
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I doubt that VA will be a great reason to hold a character. Zojja's case is specific, because Anet created the hype around it. But laranthir, whos cares about his voice actor?
i guess Anet learned the lesson, and will not invest/hype much more to bring remarkable VA for a characters with a long journey in the lore.
Did it to villains is the best path, because villains are not to stay here forever(so they "remarkable" VA) like Balthazar, Joko..., ... so they did it to Jormag too, since Jormag will not be inteded to "stay here forever".
-- Atlantean Sword --
The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."
I saw Laranthir perfectly healthy chilling in my home instance in Divinity's Reach, a few days ago.
I saw him not long ago fighting the Shadow Behemoth in the swamp in Queensdale.
Bring back Ceara
Alrighty, let's do a tiny little necromancy here (I intended to make a new thread but remembered this one so here I go).
As it contains spoilery things for S5.2:
According to a letter found in Jora's Keep, Laranthir requested and got "a temporary leave of absence so he may return to the Grove."
So, where does this take us (and him)? Did he just need a rest after all the fighting? Is he still in the Grove and we'll need to find him and tell him all the news?
Is there more to it? Will there be complications? Vigil stuff? Sylvari stuff? Something completely different?
I'm pretty intrigued (and set for a disappointment maybe?)...
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
I think this is just an excuse Arenanet rushed out to have a Norn, fitting for the story, be the new leader.
It's almost as if Anet thought her being part of Svanir's family wasn't a good enough reason for her to join in.
That aside, I can't imagine Laranthir fitting as the General.
He's better as a leader of smaller, temporary groups that are formed for specific purposes.
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The Commander will end you.
He is sharing the same fate with Zojja
As it comes to Laranthir, it is highly possible that he took a leave of absence from Vigil for some time, Taking under consideration that Pale Tree is\was injured ( possibly cannot reproduce any longer ) and that Sylvari population been reduced around her, his presence in Grove will be more appropriate.
Thanks for finding the letter.
That clears things up.
I mean, it's been how many years since the Vigil was founded? Surely things change over time, that's normal. So yes, it is obviously an excuse to get a norn into a prominent role, but at least there's some consistency and Laranthir has not been simply forgotten.
I would agree it sounds like a rushed excuse.
Not because they thought Jhavi didn't have enough reason to join, but because they either forgot Laranthir was second-in-command, or didn't expect people to go "where is Laranthir to take over/why is Jhavi taking over?"
The main reason why I say it sounds rushed, is because every other book in the achievement for Ep2 is from the same author, talking about her interactions with Still Waters Talking and her fall to Jormag.
That said, I could see them taking Laranthir's leave and using this to open up either a Side Story where we share the news and learn a bit about the founding of the Vigil that involved Almorra's "darkest time" that LAranthir (which seems to have involved Jhavi, Rodrigez, Efut, and Fuji Shadowbane), or using this to bridge in some loose sylvari plot threads like Malyck, the Awakened Sylvari, and the Pale Reavers/Carys.
I'd also disagree that he's better as a small leader, he shows to be very tactical in the personal story imo.
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There still is the possibility that Arenanet forgot about him until they decided to read the forums for a bit.
In that case I'm so glad I've started this topic.
Though despite Laranthir's temporary retirement for unknown reasons. It is possible to cover this up with the lore reason being how Sylvari still suffers from the events of HoT public relations wise. As we learn in this Saga through some NPC dialogues, the events of HoT has greatly impacted people's opinions on Sylvari to a point some people just refuse to accept Sylvari ever again as people or friends even if they had a long positive history with them.
it is even worse that it is public knowledge now that Sylvari are Dragon Minions due to their origin being creations of Mordremoth which no doubt contributes to the continue mistrust towards Sylvaris even after Mordremoth's death.
The Pale Tree is able to reproduce even though not entirely recovered according to the Notes from Rata Novus (gosh, was that hard to find as I couldn't remember where I saw it mentioned). And she did get somewhat better after regrowing the Caladbolg. It's been about four or five years in the game since those events so she migt be almost okay by now.
This is what I have hopes for (although I'm afraid it won't be the case. But I'll let me dream for a while longer
)
I agree with you here, he proved to be capable enough. However I've always had the impression he's not really interested in being the leader.
To lighten it up a little - I can totally see Laranthir when he's told about Almorra - /facepalm and says: "Oh thorns, first vacation in years and this is what happens..."
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
You can find a note book with the explanation as an achievement in the latest chapter. He asked for some time off.
Wasn't Jhavi just "acting second in command"
Laranthir is on leave.
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Laranthir returning to the Grove could portend future developments there. As was pointed out, we're long overdue for an update on the status of the Pale Tree. And there's certainly plenty of room in however many episodes of LS5 we have left to make some story hops. Maybe we'll visit the Grove to rally additional Sylvari support, since they are likely more resistant to Jormag's whispers due to their origins. Or perhaps there are other events going on in the Grove which require Laranthir's presence; maybe the Pale Tree called him for some purpose, as she has done to other Sylvari. Or maybe he just needed a break; after all, even the most prominent leaders take time off every now and then.
One thing is for sure: when word of the crisis in Bjora reaches Laranthir in the Grove, he will almost certainly come running with reinforcements in tow. What happens when he gets to Bjora and finds Jhavi doing well and having the support of the local troops? Will she give him a smooth turnover of command and step back? Will she demand to maintain her position? Will he dutifully stand aside and leave Jhavi in charge for now so as not to be disruptive in the present crisis, or will he be resentful? What will the Vigil troops under the different commanders do? Lots of potential drama as the Vigil faces arguably the worst crisis of its existence.
It's more likely that Arenanet forgot about him and that one note about his absence was just shoved into the game after players pointed out his absence.
If noone had pointed it out, it's entirely that Arenanet wouldn't have put in that note.
As for the pale tree, I doubt Arenanet will incorporate her into the story again anytime soon.
Also, as we have seen with Caithe in Season 4, Sylvari are no longer immune to being corrupted by other dragons. Who's to say Aurene is the only one being able to convert other dragon's minions?
I can't imagine Laranthir and Jhavi starting a fight over who leads the Vigil. If Laranthir even considers to return, I'm sure they will work this issue out peacefully and professionally. They have both been with the Vigil for a long time and both have had high positions for years. When you replay the personal story as a member of the Vigil, you will notice Jhavi being there even back then. She didn't have any dialogue, but she was already a named NPC.
As for Laranthir, he has proven in the PS and especially in HoT that he stays loyal and on track even when faced with severe opposition and distrust within the Pact. I absolutely cannot imagine him risking the Vigil's unity by insisting on his personal position. OTOH, I'm not even sure Jhavi herself would want to lead the Vigil. We don't know all that much about her yet. So far, she seems to be more interested in her family's history than politics.
I believe some sylvari could be more resistent to Jormag's whispers. Specifically the HoT veterans, not because immunity, but because "been there, done that, not again". But the younger ones are probably just as vulnerable as anyone else.
I can't either. However I see Laranthir as the one who probably wouldn't even be interested in the leading position. Also, I'm not sure how bad is the after-Mordy distrust to the sylvari in the present, but if it's still an issue (or he sees it that way) Laranthir woud certainly step down to not compromise the order.
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
"Rise my minion!"
Alright, this minion is not really mine, but I'm necroing it again anyway, because we've had "development" in the Truce chapter. Anyone else getting slightly hopeful that Laranthir's absence may have an actual reason after all?
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
At least he is not forgotten, that was good to see.
I hope the reason for his absence is not just "So Jhavi can become the new Vigil leader without serious discussion", though. I mean, we don't have to have those discussions on screen, but I think they should still happen within the Vigil. This is kind of an important matter to the order.
Maybe he got a new Wyld Hunt?
Voice actors don't usually have it in their contract that only they can voice that character do they?
They could have hired a new voice actress for Zoija by now.
Someone said there was some dialogue of the Pale Tree still recovering?
Was that due to the good Sylvari being microscopically still connected to Mordremoth ( a guess highly diluted but still dragon minions) before we killed him?
It has been implied that Sylvari were immune to corruption due to being minions of Mordremoth.
I don't think it was directly stated anywhere though.
I wish they would, Zojja not having any role in a Primordus plot is going to be a serious disappointment.
Specially now that we're going back to Rata Sum and having a whole Frost Legion Asura alliance going on.
Zojja needs to come back into the story asap and if that means recasting her then just do it Anet, nobody will care at this point.
There was yes, I don't remember exactly what was said but I think it was along the lines of, Wounds as deep as the ones she sustained will take a long time to fully heal but she's doing much better now.
Still a controversial topic, with Sylvari being immune because of being a dragon minion or because of the protection of the Pale Tree through the dream. It’s unfortunately still a topic we don’t have a concrete answer to.
I’m still of the opinion that it’s a combination of the two. As to date we haven’t seen another dragon minion be corrupted by another dragon( we got Subject Alpha, etc. because of Inquest meddling, blah blah, but still no actual evidence like what would happen if Kralkatorrik branded over a Risen while Zhaitan was alive.)
During the personal story, it was advised that the Sylvari were immune to the corruption of Zhaitan, which allowed the Pact a victory in Orr, among other reasons. Even in Caledon Forest you had Risen fighting right next to the Soundless village, (which should have no such protection) which produced no Risen Sylvari.
In Season 2, the Pale Tree spoke about that the reason the Sylvari were immune to dragon corruption was because of the Pale Trees protection. This is of course the Pale Trees reasoning without telling the other races that they are all dragon minions. This protection is also talking about Mordremoth’s corruption as well, mainly because you need to explain how a whole playable race isn’t immediately taken over by Mordremoth the very second it awakes.
Then you have Taimi advising that she thought dragon minions couldn’t be corrupted by other dragons in Season 4, but again no concrete answers, other then the reasoning from Taimi that maybe because Aurene absorbed Mordremoth’s energy as an egg.
Guess the closest thing we have is Caithe being kinda branded by Aurine and the Awakened Sylvari that Joko managed to enslave.
The specifics of these are still unclear though, the latter we'll likely never get an answer for since Joko is probably nothing more than a pile of fertiliser on a mountain somewhere these days.
No.
After what they did to the Spirits, the norn aspect of the Saga in general, and to my boy Smodur - zero faith in ANet's narrative capabilities. I'd prefer they not ruin Laranthir somehow as well.
That’s another oddity is that the Pale Tree protection that is allegedly suppose to protect the Sylvari from the Elder Dragons is defeated by Joko’s awakening magic. That’s unless that protection only extends to Mordremoth and that the other dragon’s can’t corrupt the Sylvari.
Might be the wise thing to do. I'm afraid it will end up like that but I still can't not get my hopes up. Oh well, the dissapointment to come is my own doing I guess.
And slightly off-topic, I was not pleased by Aife coming all the way to the EotN and tell me almost the same thing we've been told for FIVE KITTEN YEARS about the Pale Tree's health.
Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
Act with wisdom and axe.
Well I guess they are right about one thing...its DEF the Icebrood saga and has NOTHING to do with the Norn ._.
Longest recovery ever.
I've always wondered though from a narrative perspective- the push and pull between doing what organically and logically would happen from characters and events to doing things slightly different for the sake of keeping it fresh and not treading the same old tropes?
Or Risen are different from Awakened. I think the protection is against unwillingly being corrupted, not complete immunity to necromancy.
Well one is dragon corruption, the other is being reanimated and bound to the will of Joko, which although being different is similar to Zhaitan.
Aye, we don't quite know the specifics but the two do seem to be different.
Zhaitans magic while Necromantic isn't quite the same as the Necromancy we use, much like how Jormag is about Ice/water magic and yet it's different to the kind of magic elementalists have access to, same goes for other Dragons and their powers.
Plus Joko is/was on a whole other level to most common Necromancers, partly perks of being a Lich I guess although I expect it had more to do with his exceptionally long life and the kind of power and knowledge he accumulated in that time, much of which is probably long lost to time.