Why does Jormag care if the commander comes north? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why does Jormag care if the commander comes north?

Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

Is the commander important to Jormag? Why does Jormag need the commander to cone north?

Comments

  • This sounds terrible, but since Braham seems to be the most susceptible to Jormag, he could give in, but before he turns Icebrood, we fight him and free his mind, like Gandalf did Thrain in The Hobbit

  • Regh.8649Regh.8649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Commander's strength always come from their allies. They either have an elite strike force with them, or they have an army. The only times the Commander fought a powerful foe one-on-one, they lost. First to Balthazar, second to Joko.

    Agreed.
    What the Commander lacks in strenght it gains in courage. He represents a unified Tyria, a beacon of hope against devastating forces, a symbol, and that alone is tremendous power when wielded in a very altruistic sense, such power already defeated 3 Elder Dragons, a God and outmaneuvered other evil minds.
    The Commander is the catalyst and the representative of the all mighty Tyria, with an exceptional mental resilience for a mortal hero.
    Not all heroes wear capes right? ;)

    Formula for success: Rise early, work hard, strike oil.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because he heard the commander has a new dragon on tender ....

    Ok but no really its likely because the commander is still technically Aurene's Champion which makes him a weak point to get what he might be seeking from Aurene. IF the commander gets into trouble Aurene is almost sure to show up.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    We've killed 3 Elder Dragons so far and a fallen God.. not to mention multiple dragon champions, a unkillable Lich lord and the last Murzaat..
    We've also hatched, raised and elevated a morally good dragon to the status of Elder Dragon.. our actions effectively creating a massive power shift in the world compared to the opening setting of the game where Elder Dragons were seen as both unstoppable and probably unkillable forces of nature.

    Also keep in mind that during season 3 a significant blow was dealt to both Jormag and Primordus thanks mostly to Balthazar and Taimi's Machine.

    At this point it would be extremely foolish for an intelligent dragon like Jormag to not recognize this power shift and naturally see the Commander and Aurine as a force to be respected.. both as enemy and potential ally.
    Jormag's intentions remain unclear.. however it would be in any Elder Dragons intersts at this point to at the very least not have us as it's enemy..
    Jormag is the only dragon we can confirm at this point has a higher level of intelligence, Primordus and DSD remain unknown on that front but if they too are creatures of high intelligence then it's also in their best interests to find common ground with Aurine and the mortal Dragon killers she's alligned with.

  • To answer the question
    The Commander saved Jormags life and Jormag knows the Commander is the Most Powerful entity on Tyria

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Summary:
    They don't. Jormag wants Aurene. Exploiting The Commander's connection to Aurene is one path to that end.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • @reikken.4961 said:
    To the people saying the Commander isn't worth taking for the raw power just because they're weaker than a god or elder dragon, come on. You don't need to be the most powerful thing in existence to still be immensely powerful.

    Sure, leadership is absolutely the main thing, but power is still a big factor.

    I agree 100% my guy

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @reikken.4961 said:
    To the people saying the Commander isn't worth taking for the raw power just because they're weaker than a god or elder dragon, come on. You don't need to be the most powerful thing in existence to still be immensely powerful.

    Sure, leadership is absolutely the main thing, but power is still a big factor.

    Nobody has said that. We have however, pointed out that when somebody goes "They killed three elder dragons!" They really mean "The commander did the final blow, after working alongside a massive army and fellow heros of similar power level.". Or "They killed a god." really means "They killed a god, with the help of one dragon directly and another indirectly.". "They killed an immortal lich." really means "The commander defeated Joko, but then was caught in a snare and Aurene ambushed Joko and killed him before he could kill/awaken the commander."

    The commander is a big figure, yes. But they aren't this unstoppable power-house that people claim.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    We've killed 3 Elder Dragons so far and a fallen God.. not to mention multiple dragon champions, a unkillable Lich lord and the last Murzaat..

    "We've worked with armies that killed the three dragons." "We've killed a god, with a dragon's help." "We got tricked by a lich and Aurene saved our behind." and "Who cares?" Lazarus is powerful yes, but irrelevant to most people's state of mind. Not many know the power of the Mursaat anymore.

    We've also hatched, raised and elevated a morally good dragon to the status of Elder Dragon.. our actions effectively creating a massive power shift in the world compared to the opening setting of the game where Elder Dragons were seen as both unstoppable and probably unkillable forces of nature.

    Yes, we've finished the last several steps of a plan that's thousands, to tens or hundreds of thousands of years old.

    Also keep in mind that during season 3 a significant blow was dealt to both Jormag and Primordus thanks mostly to Balthazar and Taimi's Machine.

    At this point it would be extremely foolish for an intelligent dragon like Jormag to not recognize this power shift and naturally see the Commander and Aurine as a force to be respected.. both as enemy and potential ally.
    Jormag's intentions remain unclear.. however it would be in any Elder Dragons intersts at this point to at the very least not have us as it's enemy..
    Jormag is the only dragon we can confirm at this point has a higher level of intelligence, Primordus and DSD remain unknown on that front but if they too are creatures of high intelligence then it's also in their best interests to find common ground with Aurine and the mortal Dragon killers she's alligned with.

    While true, there is a difference between understanding that the Commander is a dangerous foe not because of their personal ability, but in the teamwork they can command or inspire and their ability to gather armies.

    People are putting too much focus on "The commander did the killing blow" without also noting "If the commander didn't gather the various leaders into a functional alliance, Kralk would have never been stopped."

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 25, 2019

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    "We've worked with armies that killed the three dragons." "We've killed a god, with a dragon's help." "We got tricked by a lich and Aurene saved our behind." and "Who cares?" Lazarus is powerful yes, but irrelevant to most people's state of mind. Not many know the power of the Mursaat anymore.

    True however stories of these events typically embelish the reality.
    The Commander is just one figure among many but they are effectively the leader in these events and typically gains the most credit from them.
    Aside from Zhaitan which Traherne gained the most credit as the leader despite us doing all the work.. a point often complained about for many years :)
    In more recent stories though we've taken over that leadership role despite no longer being part of the pact.

    Yes, we've finished the last several steps of a plan that's thousands, to tens or hundreds of thousands of years old.

    A pretty significant achievement by any right.. considering how many heroes could have taken on that task, it ultimately fell to us to see it to compleation.
    Specially since out of all that had handled the egg, Aurine choose the Commander specifically to be her Champion.

    While true, there is a difference between understanding that the Commander is a dangerous foe not because of their personal ability, but in the teamwork they can command or inspire and their ability to gather armies.

    People are putting too much focus on "The commander did the killing blow" without also noting "If the commander didn't gather the various leaders into a functional alliance, Kralk would have never been stopped."

    To be fair personal ability isn't really specified in the game.. more so that the commander is someone of note and accomplishment that deserves respect.
    I was quite happy to see that referenced in the game recently.

    They are one being among many yes but an important leader that is directly involved in these events.
    The have been a few moments of personal ability though, defeating Shadow of the Dragon despite limited support and Lazarus again with limited support.. plus we did go toe to toe with the fallen God of war with only a baby Dragon to help us.. those are certainly displays of personal skill tbh.
    We were also part of a small task force the ultimately destroyed Mordremoth while the pact forces distracted it and it's army which should also count for something.

    I wouldn't say the Commander is some kind of super being though but I also wouldn't say they're just some normal, average (insert class here) either..
    We're clearly on the same level at least as Heroes like Destiny's Edge.. and have earned equal if not more respect in the world due to our achievements and success rate.
    Achievements which are also shared by the pact and the orders as well as other factions etc
    The common denominator though is that the Commander and Dragon's Watch has been a persistent figure in all those events where as the others have not.

    What can be argued to the Commanders worth though is how many events in the game would have had the same outcome without us.
    Zhaitan probably would have still fallen.. but events after that would likely have been different.
    Mordremoth would possibly still be alive and Aurine certainly wouldn't have been born.. so Kralkatorrik would either still be terrorizing the world or would have been slain by Balthazar who would have effectively lead a crusade across the world against the dragons either falling to them or succeeding and destroying the world in the process.
    So yeah the Commander is pretty important overall for many reasons.

  • @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    To the people saying the Commander isn't worth taking for the raw power just because they're weaker than a god or elder dragon, come on. You don't need to be the most powerful thing in existence to still be immensely powerful.

    Sure, leadership is absolutely the main thing, but power is still a big factor.

    Nobody has said that. We have however, pointed out that when somebody goes "They killed three elder dragons!" They really mean "The commander did the final blow, after working alongside a massive army and fellow heros of similar power level.". Or "They killed a god." really means "They killed a god, with the help of one dragon directly and another indirectly.". "They killed an immortal lich." really means "The commander defeated Joko, but then was caught in a snare and Aurene ambushed Joko and killed him before he could kill/awaken the commander."

    The commander is a big figure, yes. But they aren't this unstoppable power-house that people claim.

    To expand on this, I'd say that while powerful, the Commander is more or less on par to other "powerful mortals" like the members of Destiny's Edge and Dragon's Watch, who's true strength comes from working as a team.

    They'd be worth corrupting into champions for sure, but given their track record, they alone is by no means enough to merit the risk of their ire.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    True however stories of these events typically embelish the reality.
    The Commander is just one figure among many but they are effectively the leader in these events and typically gains the most credit from them.
    Aside from Zhaitan which Traherne gained the most credit as the leader despite us doing all the work.. a point often complained about for many years :)
    In more recent stories though we've taken over that leadership role despite no longer being part of the pact.

    Trahearne's credit is overstated as well, he openly dumped credit to others in most cases, and even IIRC took very little credit for the final battle, as he was resting and out of the fight then.

    To be fair personal ability isn't really specified in the game.. more so that the commander is someone of note and accomplishment that deserves respect.
    I was quite happy to see that referenced in the game recently.

    Yeah, that bit is true. I was meaning player-side. Though perhaps it's just me being tired of the overused trope of "This person did it all by themselves"

    I wouldn't say the Commander is some kind of super being though but I also wouldn't say they're just some normal, average (insert class here) either..
    We're clearly on the same level at least as Heroes like Destiny's Edge.. and have earned equal if not more respect in the world due to our achievements and success rate.
    Achievements which are also shared by the pact and the orders as well as other factions etc
    The common denominator though is that the Commander and Dragon's Watch has been a persistent figure in all those events where as the others have not.

    Mhm, it's one thing I love about GW2, and GW1. It's never about a singular hero, but a group of people of similar power levels, working together.

    What can be argued to the Commanders worth though is how many events in the game would have had the same outcome without us.
    Zhaitan probably would have still fallen.. but events after that would likely have been different.
    Mordremoth would possibly still be alive and Aurine certainly wouldn't have been born.. so Kralkatorrik would either still be terrorizing the world or would have been slain by Balthazar who would have effectively lead a crusade across the world against the dragons either falling to them or succeeding and destroying the world in the process.
    So yeah the Commander is pretty important overall for many reasons.

    Indeed.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    To the people saying the Commander isn't worth taking for the raw power just because they're weaker than a god or elder dragon, come on. You don't need to be the most powerful thing in existence to still be immensely powerful.

    Sure, leadership is absolutely the main thing, but power is still a big factor.

    Nobody has said that. We have however, pointed out that when somebody goes "They killed three elder dragons!" They really mean "The commander did the final blow, after working alongside a massive army and fellow heros of similar power level.". Or "They killed a god." really means "They killed a god, with the help of one dragon directly and another indirectly.". "They killed an immortal lich." really means "The commander defeated Joko, but then was caught in a snare and Aurene ambushed Joko and killed him before he could kill/awaken the commander."

    The commander is a big figure, yes. But they aren't this unstoppable power-house that people claim.

    To expand on this, I'd say that while powerful, the Commander is more or less on par to other "powerful mortals" like the members of Destiny's Edge and Dragon's Watch, who's true strength comes from working as a team.

    They'd be worth corrupting into champions for sure, but given their track record, they alone is by no means enough to merit the risk of their ire.

    It's a wonderful thing about the GW game storytelling at least. There is no chosen hero, but a group of heroes.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    Yeah, that bit is true. I was meaning player-side. Though perhaps it's just me being tired of the overused trope of "This person did it all by themselves"

    Yeah player side gets a little entangled with the theme of "This is my story"
    In reality though it's not just your story it's everyone's story just being told from your (the Commanders) perspective.

    Still the Commander is a major part of it though, arguably the most important part of it but yea players shouldn't negate the roles of the NPC cast either on the grounds that they're not players.
    They play their parts as well and the story is far more interesting and epic because of it.

    Mhm, it's one thing I love about GW2, and GW1. It's never about a singular hero, but a group of people of similar power levels, working together.

    Agreed ^^
    Perhaps Gw2's game design is partly to blame for the player attitude though, after all in Gw1 you almost always hard a party with you be they players, heroes or henchmen..
    Gw2 is largely more solo focused in gameplay so I guess I can see why some people write off NPC allies so easily, specially when they can appear so useless as combat buddies at times.

  • It is likely that Jormag perceives the Commander as a threat. It has a tendency to attempt to turn people to its side, even those whom it may perceive as enemies. The Commander is at the fore front of efforts to drive back Jormag and its minions after all. It is not surprising that Jormag would take notice.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    When A Commander with 50 not commander , things get done. Now imagine if Jormag have that army, assuming she(?) can tolerate the squad chat.

  • iRedfox.3198iRedfox.3198 Member
    edited December 6, 2019

    Lets just say that a) when Jourmag land her(?) hands on the Commander, she(?) takes down one of the main pillars holding Tirya together and b) it will be easier for her(?) to manipulate Aurene

  • @Brycar.2651 said:
    Is the commander important to Jormag? Why does Jormag need the commander to cone north?

    There is no real reason for Jormag to even worry about this, at least from a story perspective. That's how poorly written the story is.

    Now recent developments suggest Jormy fears the bid bag, the Deep Sea Dragon. The DSD's minions may be the "terrible things" that "lurk just beyond the horizon". But, in all honesty, the only time previously that development have tried to convince us that the DSD might be a problem is the blue orb story arc from Zaithan's plotline. And that was so poorly delivered that I'm not convinced that Zaithan thought the DSD was an enemy.

    As I said in the thread about HoT, development's timing for this story is way off. The big reveals like this (the Ed's fearing the DSD) should have come in HoT. But no, that was too hard to implement, apparently. If they had revealed it in HoT this whole story wouldn't feel like a lazy retelling of five terrestrial gods - I mean, dragons - going up against an aquatic god - ah, sorry, dragon too, that we otherwise know as Nightfall.

    If you don't know why Jormy should care I bet plenty of other people don't either. What does that tell you?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited 12:27AM

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    Now recent developments suggest Jormy fears the bid bag, the Deep Sea Dragon. The DSD's minions may be the "terrible things" that "lurk just beyond the horizon". But, in all honesty, the only time previously that development have tried to convince us that the DSD might be a problem is the blue orb story arc from Zaithan's plotline. And that was so poorly delivered that I'm not convinced that Zaithan thought the DSD was an enemy.

    You and I don't play the same game. Because:

    1) Nothing in the episode actually suggests that the "terrible things" are related to any one thing or another. People hypothesize it's related to the DSD, but that's literally just taking shots in the dark.
    2) Nothing suggests that Jormag fears these "terrible things". Jormag is instead saying that the Commander and Aurene will need Jormag's help against them. Nothing more. Nothing less.
    3) The DSD is a problem due to far more than the blue orb - which technically has no established relation to the DSD. The DSD is made a problem through the lore of krait, quaggan, karka, and largos - nothing else, since nothing else touches it (yet).

    Maybe the reason you think the story writing is total kitten through and through, is because you're creating false associations for the plot's direction. I mean, I'll admit that some points the writing is bad, but at other points it's also fairly good. But when I see you complain about the writing, it's always - always - because you're arguing about something that is never presented in the story and lore. Or complaining that there is nothing when there is indeed something.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.