Spirit Weapons vs. Renegade Skills

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Spirit Weapons

• 900 range
• Ammo charges
• No pathing required
• Untouchable minions
• Cooldown only

Legendary Renegade Stance

• 600 range
• Single cast
• Pathing required
• Killable + interruptable minions
• Energy cost + cooldown

@Catchyfx.5768 said:

• the dmg weapon can realisticly do and what icerazor can do (only dmg stance)
• but stances have bigger aoe

But don't forget that Icerazor only attacks one target at a time, so it's more like a turret than an AoE.

It still makes me furious trying to use them in some specific areas - shows you green circle meaning you can cast skill, but actually I end up seeing 'No valid path to target'

@"Kravey.4563" said:It still makes me furious trying to use them in some specific areas - shows you green circle meaning you can cast skill, but actually I end up seeing 'No valid path to target'

The whole "path to target" thing was what prompted me to look into Spirit Weapon mechanics. In wvw I saw an enemy summon Sword of Justice up a wall and I thought, "Wtf, why can't I do that?!"

I'd actually like to spawn Charr Spirits that work like Spirit Weapons.

Eh, whathever, I keep on wondering what great things Renegade could have for no reason.

The aoe size for kalla summons is disgusting though. If they made them unkillable it would become scourge 2.0

@Justine.6351 said:The aoe size for kalla summons is disgusting though. If they made them unkillable it would become scourge 2.0

If they had to cut down the size to compensate I wouldn't mind. I just want to be able to summon without worrying about if it can reach a target area and won't instantly die or get interrupted when it appears.

Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed.

You like them all, even Razorclaw?

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed.

If talking about "What it does", then No.

But in terms of how the mechanics works then yes. Making them un-CCable would lead to major nerfs.

The pathing issue I believe is a bug, which I hope would get resolved. Razor I would prefer had a different effect to be more useful, maybe add another condition or some unique effect to make it worth the use over other warbands for its energy cost.What could make it better was simply adding its own AoE attack to Razorclaw so that it apply its own conditions while still granting ally attacks the ability to apply bleeds. This way the stacking ability of the bleeds and conditions would be somewhat worth it.

In fact Razorclaw attack that deals some damage and converts boons into conditions while buffing ally attacks to apply bleeding on hit, double bleeds on crits.

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed.

I hope the pathing thing is just a bug and not an intentional design choice. It reminds me of how Vengeful Hammers used to be a projectile skill that got cancelled any time you touched a wall or something.

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Knighthonor.4061 said:Nah I like them better but would like the pathing bug fixed.

Probably copy paste of necro wurm skill rofl.

Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage

@"Justine.6351" said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Irehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage

I think Icerazor is stronger damage wise, but Barrage has greater usability. There's no comparison though when it comes to Icerazor's proficiency in fighting supply depots.

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@"Justine.6351" said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Ire

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage

Lolwhat? Izerazor has nothing on barrage damage numbers, certainly not when you include more foes.

@Justine.6351 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Ire

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage

Icerazor has can be cast while moving, has a fraction of the cast time, and stacks a ton of vulnerability. Those are not at all negligible.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:

@Justine.6351 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Justine.6351 said:Compare icerazor's ire with barrage...

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icerazor%27s_Ire

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrage

Yeah, it's easily putting out 20+ vulnerability and 5 Kalla's Fevor. So Icerazor's dps is higher, but Barrage lasts longer and hits more targets.

Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.

It’s not really fair that you’re comparing renegade skills to the skills of anet’s favorite child- i mean class.

@Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.

What synergy? I don't see it other than being able to cover up the interruptable minion defect by giving them stability.

Sadly I don't see the pathing issue ever getting fixed because they seem to have to respect similar pathing restrictions as ports and summons like Flesh Wurm due to the fact that it is a killable AI "character" that is being spawned, and not an untargetable/unkillable skill.

I'm in favor of spirits getting a rework because I dislike the mechanic of absurdly large AoEs, but if they never intend on fully reworking them, I would appreciate two things for them:

• 1s of invulnerability upon spawn
• "Consume" skills for all skills but Soulcleave that each have a unique effect, such as AoE chill and an ice field from Icerazor.

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.

You say that Renegade summons are underpowered because they can be killed/interrupted, yet without even trying it's easy to prevent those problems from happening with proper utility because making legends have synergy is how you make the profession work.

Your comparison it's pretty unfair aside the pathing issues. Their radius is bigger, they have better effects, they have lower cooldowns and with those lower cooldowns that will make them be used more often compared ammo recharge rates, their effective time after being casted is longer at nearly half their cooldown and finally energy is part of the profession, it all lines up pretty well.

This is not counting the extra utility from being Renegade like alacrity and the other skills from having another legend.

@Shao.7236 said:

@Clownmug.8357 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Pathing is my only problem with the skills, otherwise they are fair. Inspiring Reinforcement is a great synergy to support the summons as well.

Why should you have to prevent those problems though? Spirit Weapons also used to have minions that were killable and interruptable, then someone realized that wasn't viable for all game modes and made them AoE skills. If you think about it, Kalla's skills are practically AoE skills already, the minions don't even follow you or use command skills like Spirit Weapons used to.

Your comparison it's pretty unfair aside the pathing issues. Their radius is bigger, they have better effects, they have lower cooldowns and with those lower cooldowns that will make them be used more often compared ammo recharge rates, their effective time after being casted is longer at nearly half their cooldown and finally energy is part of the profession, it all lines up pretty well.

Some of Kalla's skills have nice effects, but I don't see how the cooldowns compete. How does Icerazor with 12s CD get used more often than Sword of Justice with 3 charges @ 20s recharge, or traited with 4 charges @ 16s recharge? If you only use a charge every 8 seconds (4 seconds traited) you'll still summon more often than Icerazor.

This is not counting the extra utility from being Renegade like alacrity and the other skills from having another legend.

Yeah, it sounds like you would be going into comparing a whole build anyways, rather than just skills.