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Why some classes don't need line of sight while others need?


SeikeNz.3526

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior (of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts (attempted) to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

This^Another example is axe on ranger being rooted but not on warrior or shield root on rev but not warrior etc there's a lot of factors considering each class is balanced considering its unique playstyle and skills even if poorly thank god for that cuz standardized of classes would make for not only a boring mmo but would tank the game as fast or faster than poor balance.

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@"Neil.3825" said:You made a point for thief but are Revs and Guardians's "weapon dmg a stupid joke compared to Warrior" ?

Warrior has much higher dmg than both of them, Warrior has worse (but still very good) burst-dmg skills (actually it has the best burst in game on Rampage), but its sustained dmg is outputting a lot more than Rev or Guard, that's why Warrior is the duelist while neither Rev nor Guard are with Warrior winning vs both of them, which is why I am saying it doesn't make sense to have all use teleport or none. Not to mention the much better survivability than Rev or Guard and even much better mobility in case of Guard.

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@"Neil.3825" said:You made a point for thief but are Revs and Guardians's "weapon dmg a stupid joke compared to Warrior" ?

That's their is a good point lol. But knowing their damage and not restricting their tele to los is a poor balance issue as they should independently be altered to los considering their respective damage potential.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@"Neil.3825" said:You made a point for thief but are Revs and Guardians's "weapon dmg a stupid joke compared to Warrior" ?

Warrior has much higher dmg than both of them, Warrior has worse
(but still very good)
burst-dmg skills
(actually it has the best burst in game on Rampage)
, but its sustained dmg is outputting a lot more than Rev or Guard, that's why Warrior is the duelist while neither Rev nor Guard are with Warrior winning vs both of them, which is why I am saying it doesn't make sense to have all use teleport or none. Not to mention the much better survivability than Rev or Guard and even much better mobility in case of Guard.

Good points.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Just going to use thief as an example because it's what I know best and fits the bill. If you removed their ability to teleport/shadowstep you would have to compensate them for it or else they would just become..well...completely useless. If you buffed their damage they would just start nuking people from stealth which would be even more frustrating. If you buffed their raw defense they would be just be a low damage shitty warrior. Teleports are strong no doubt but I don't think they are placed on any profession which doesn't need them. If I had to argue against teleports the only one I personally have a grudge against in guardian but again, if they didn't have it, they would be so slow it would be a joke.

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

This^Another example is axe on ranger being rooted but not on warrior or shield root on rev but not warrior etc there's a lot of factors considering each class is balanced considering its unique playstyle and skills even if poorly thank god for that cuz standardized of classes would make for not only a boring mmo but would tank the game as fast or faster than poor balance.

im not talking about mechanics, im talking about line of sight, some classes need it while others just turn around, the classes with line of sight get interrupted every time making you die, while others can just press the button, of course ranger axe will be op without being rooted

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

.........Sword 2 alone has 0.25 to 0.50 sec after cast and you are telling me eating next 5 attacks out of which there is none that has channel/cast shorter than 0.5 sec equals "an instant". Standing without action, eating dmg for almost 3 second = instant event which should disallow ports from behind walls?

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1 thief can TP through walls for a reason, removing it would nerf theif in a big way ( remove suprise factor from alot of roams for example )2 the reason alot of mesmer abilities fail when you run behind them, is to make them as frustrating to play as possible to push people off the class.there is no reason why my character shouldnt autmatically turn to cast ability like scepter 3 or gs 2, if fact my character should be glued facting the enemy untill casttime is finished.That would make sense if not for the fact that classes have no hitboxes so people occupy same pixel, making your abilities useless. thats just dum dumb

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@Alatar.7364 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

.........Sword 2 alone has 0.25 to 0.50 sec after cast and you are telling me eating next 5 attacks out of which there is none that has channel/cast shorter than 0.5 sec equals "an instant". Standing without action, eating dmg for almost 3 second = instant event which should disallow ports from behind walls?

sword 2 imobilize you so you can't turn around and react fast, so yeah he have free hits behind a wall, the surprise factor shoud come from stealth not from abusing a bad game design, also no one will react in 0,5s, then if he have quickness you going to eat all these atks

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

.........Sword 2 alone has 0.25 to 0.50 sec after cast and you are telling me eating next 5 attacks out of which there is none that has channel/cast shorter than 0.5 sec equals "an instant". Standing without action, eating dmg for almost 3 second = instant event which should disallow ports from behind walls?

sword 2 imobilize you so you can't turn around and react fast, so yeah he have free hits behind a wall, the surprise factor shoud come from stealth not from abusing a bad game design, also no one will react in 0,5s, then if he have quickness you going to eat all these atks

What you are saying is impossible to happen if your enemy has at least quarter of brain, I have ton of experience as Thief and ton at fighting it including S2 and I can safely say what you describe is a fantasy. Even in the impossible nonexistent scenario that you would not have at least one condi clense, or some CC, or block, or blind or port or aegis even in that scenario the Immob lasts 1 sec, so you still stood for almost 2 seconds and did nothing. S/D thief doesn't use/have quickness and no it is perfectly easy to react in 0.5 sec. I do it daily, people do it daily to me. For example Arcing Slice is 0.5 sec and its generally considered both interuptable or avoidable.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

.........Sword 2 alone has 0.25 to 0.50 sec after cast and you are telling me eating next 5 attacks out of which there is none that has channel/cast shorter than 0.5 sec equals "an instant". Standing without action, eating dmg for almost 3 second = instant event which should disallow ports from behind walls?

sword 2 imobilize you so you can't turn around and react fast, so yeah he have free hits behind a wall, the surprise factor shoud come from stealth not from abusing a bad game design, also no one will react in 0,5s, then if he have quickness you going to eat all these atks

You can turn with attacking skill, you can also interrupt him/her. Some classes can do half dmg on a theif with melee range without even facing the thief (warrior cyclone axe) there so many ways to do something the moment you are immobilized to counter pressure back.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:what kind of balance is that?like mesmers skills get interrupted if someone goes behind you or from your sides making you waste the skill and get killed, then you have other classes that can teleport behind walls and auto turn to atk?

Because of theme and functionality of skills.Imagine if Warrior, who's every single skill is a nuke-level dmg, could teleport.Then you have Thief who can teleport but its weapon dmg is a stupid joke compared to Warrior
(of course unless you go full Backstab build in which case you have one chance to land it, if you dont you hit 200 dagger AAs for next 20 seconds)

The game attempts
(attempted)
to make ratios between stuff like DMG/Mobility, etc. etc. even though we all know it failed miserably in many instances, however in some it's working. So in case it crossed your mind, the fact that some can teleport behind walls doesn't mean everyone should nor the fact that some cant doesn't mean noone should. It's just about the numbers and number of effects caused by single skills.

none should teleport behind walls, thiefs can use it to avoid hits making them invunerable for a long time, then i don't think warriors should leap behind walls too(they don't), i think they need to remove the auto turn for any class, this just make unbalance it's for all or for no one.

Thief invulnerable for long time? What? If Thief is hiding behind wall then the enemy is not being attacked by Thief so this goes both ways. Also what autoturn?

sword 2, he just teleport to you, atk you 3~5 times, then teleport back to the wall before you even react because it's instant, if you react fast he will just teleport and your skill will be obstructed then you wasted all your skills cooldowns, sometimes you just lose the target and the skill gets interrupted.

and just to make clear IM NOT ASKING TO REMOVE TELEPORTS, but everyskill should have a line of sight, if the thief want to teleport he should teleport in a valid path, im ok with the return going back to a wall if the thief walked there... but the strike hit should not

.........Sword 2 alone has 0.25 to 0.50 sec after cast and you are telling me eating next 5 attacks out of which there is none that has channel/cast shorter than 0.5 sec equals "an instant". Standing without action, eating dmg for almost 3 second = instant event which should disallow ports from behind walls?

sword 2 imobilize you so you can't turn around and react fast, so yeah he have free hits behind a wall, the surprise factor shoud come from stealth not from abusing a bad game design, also no one will react in 0,5s, then if he have quickness you going to eat all these atks

You can turn with attacking skill, you can also interrupt him/her. Some classes can do half dmg on a theif with melee range without even facing the thief (warrior cyclone axe) there so many ways to do something the moment you are immobilized to counter pressure back.

you can't turn if the class need line of sight

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how crap it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you know your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

Yes, because you will completely gut Thief by it, based on physically impossible scenarios that you conjure on my posts.By this post I quote, you literally said that you find it funny that people dont like getting profession gutted based on your presentation of illogical arguments.

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@Zexanima.7851 said:

@SeikeNz.3526 said:i find funny the thiefs players coming here to defend it, this topic is not about thief, its about line of sight i give the example of thief because is one of the classes that more abuse this fail concept

Thief, rev, and guardian are really the only ones to take advantage of teleports in a reliable way and thief is the one to use it to LOS so that's probably why people are referring to thief so much. You know how kitten it would be if these professions had no way to chase the enemy or flee? You would just fight them until you start to lose, then you just reset by running around a wall. Its like saying all of warriors blocks/evades are OP or necro's shroud is OP. If you
know
your opponent can teleport you play accordingly. Don't panic spam skills, try to predict when they will tele (its not has hard as it sounds), make them burn up their teleports/initiative/energy so they can't teleport anymore. If they have to keep teleporting off point then you're winning the fight and causing them to waste valuable time.

because blocks/shroud is a class mechanic, while teleporting is a class mechanic doing it without los is a failed game mechanic, you can't wait them burn everything at you they hit hard and you going to die, no one here is asking to remove teleport or give teleport to other classes, im talking about LOS while on some classes this work on others it's ignored and let they abuse it, if LOS worked on thiefs they would still have teleports.

do i have to draw you a picture?

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