Scourge may actually be more of a power class than a condition class.

I did some interesting calculations, based on very basic situations for both 'contestants'. Both contestants will be using desert shroud, with one shade present. The unlucky sucker taking the damage is wearing light armor and moving, but always in range of the effects of the shade, the scourge, and desert shroud.

In the red corner, we have a scourge with a marauder amulet, equipped with Death Perception, using an axe.

In the blue corner, we have a scourge with a carrion amulet, not equipped with anything in particular (unfair, I know, bare with me), using a scepter.

All assumptions on the mechanics were taken from this thread, credit to savacli.8172:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/174330#Comment_174330

So when the scourge uses desert shroud, it will deal 21 packets of direct damage (7 from the shades MSS, 7 from your MSS effect, and 7 from desert shroud). and also inflict 56 ticks of torment damage (4 stacks of torment, applied 7 times, lasting for 2 seconds each).

The marauder scourge will have 100% critical chance during desert shroud, and the direct damage packets will do an average of 22547 damage over the 7 second duration. The torment applied will deal 1780 damage over an 8 second period. This equals 24327 damage.

The carrion scourge will have 5% critical chance, for the purposes of this calculation the final direct damage is mulplied by 1.025 (5% chance to critical at 1.5x damage), equalling 11430. The torment will deal 7829 damage, for a total of 19259 damage.

That's a really big difference! Discuss!

Yes, I am aware in a more realistic situation, both scourges will have more active affects bumping up their damage.

Better...nope, but its not worthless, so I'm happy. However lets wait and see what nerfs are we going to receive and when scourge is in more stable(or sad) state can compare them again ;)

@kKagari.6804 said:I did some interesting calculations, based on very basic situations for both 'contestants'. Both contestants will be using desert shroud, with one shade present. The unlucky sucker taking the damage is wearing light armor and moving, but always in range of the effects of the shade, the scourge, and desert shroud.

In the red corner, we have a scourge with a marauder amulet, equipped with Death Perception, using an axe.

In the blue corner, we have a scourge with a carrion amulet, not equipped with anything in particular (unfair, I know, bare with me), using a scepter.

All assumptions on the mechanics were taken from this thread, credit to savacli.8172:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/174330#Comment_174330

So when the scourge uses desert shroud, it will deal 21 packets of direct damage (7 from the shades MSS, 7 from your MSS effect, and 7 from desert shroud). and also inflict 56 ticks of torment damage (4 stacks of torment, applied 7 times, lasting for 2 seconds each).

The marauder scourge will have 100% critical chance during desert shroud, and the direct damage packets will do an average of 22547 damage over the 7 second duration. The torment applied will deal 1780 damage over an 8 second period. This equals 24327 damage.

The carrion scourge will have 5% critical chance, for the purposes of this calculation the final direct damage is mulplied by 1.025 (5% chance to critical at 1.5x damage), equalling 11430. The torment will deal 7829 damage, for a total of 19259 damage.

That's a really big difference! Discuss!

Yes, I am aware in a more realistic situation, both scourges will have more active affects bumping up their damage.

If you throw Death Perception in your power test you should also use Dhuumfire in the condi one.With Carrion its 951 burning damage over 3 seconds for each stack.

@Vitali.5039 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:I did some interesting calculations, based on very basic situations for both 'contestants'. Both contestants will be using desert shroud, with one shade present. The unlucky sucker taking the damage is wearing light armor and moving, but always in range of the effects of the shade, the scourge, and desert shroud.

In the red corner, we have a scourge with a marauder amulet, equipped with Death Perception, using an axe.

In the blue corner, we have a scourge with a carrion amulet, not equipped with anything in particular (unfair, I know, bare with me), using a scepter.

All assumptions on the mechanics were taken from this thread, credit to savacli.8172:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/174330#Comment_174330

So when the scourge uses desert shroud, it will deal 21 packets of direct damage (7 from the shades MSS, 7 from your MSS effect, and 7 from desert shroud). and also inflict 56 ticks of torment damage (4 stacks of torment, applied 7 times, lasting for 2 seconds each).

The marauder scourge will have 100% critical chance during desert shroud, and the direct damage packets will do an average of 22547 damage over the 7 second duration. The torment applied will deal 1780 damage over an 8 second period. This equals 24327 damage.

The carrion scourge will have 5% critical chance, for the purposes of this calculation the final direct damage is mulplied by 1.025 (5% chance to critical at 1.5x damage), equalling 11430. The torment will deal 7829 damage, for a total of 19259 damage.

That's a really big difference! Discuss!

Yes, I am aware in a more realistic situation, both scourges will have more active affects bumping up their damage.

Hmm, according to the link above, doesn't it only hit once when using desert shroud? Did the calculations at work <_< go ms excel! haven't had the chance to road test it yet.

It seem that dhuumfire hit each time the shades are "stimulated", proc'ing once for regular shroud skill and each time desert shroud pulse. So yes, dhuumfire is huge for a condi build.

@kKagari.6804 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:I did some interesting calculations, based on very basic situations for both 'contestants'. Both contestants will be using desert shroud, with one shade present. The unlucky sucker taking the damage is wearing light armor and moving, but always in range of the effects of the shade, the scourge, and desert shroud.

In the red corner, we have a scourge with a marauder amulet, equipped with Death Perception, using an axe.

In the blue corner, we have a scourge with a carrion amulet, not equipped with anything in particular (unfair, I know, bare with me), using a scepter.

All assumptions on the mechanics were taken from this thread, credit to savacli.8172:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/174330#Comment_174330

So when the scourge uses desert shroud, it will deal 21 packets of direct damage (7 from the shades MSS, 7 from your MSS effect, and 7 from desert shroud). and also inflict 56 ticks of torment damage (4 stacks of torment, applied 7 times, lasting for 2 seconds each).

The marauder scourge will have 100% critical chance during desert shroud, and the direct damage packets will do an average of 22547 damage over the 7 second duration. The torment applied will deal 1780 damage over an 8 second period. This equals 24327 damage.

The carrion scourge will have 5% critical chance, for the purposes of this calculation the final direct damage is mulplied by 1.025 (5% chance to critical at 1.5x damage), equalling 11430. The torment will deal 7829 damage, for a total of 19259 damage.

That's a really big difference! Discuss!

Yes, I am aware in a more realistic situation, both scourges will have more active affects bumping up their damage.

On Shroud's 1 traits as Reaper's Might, Unyielding Blast and Dhuumfire works on every Sand Shade's strike. Desert Shroud pulses proc those traits 7 times.

Lol after today's changes this is going to be even more true! Get ready for some maths

@kKagari.6804 said:Lol after today's changes this is going to be even more true! Get ready for some maths

Doubtful.

Power Scourge still relied on the "broken" traits and had nearly 20% or so of its damage from burning and torment. With these "fixes" Power Scourge is probably just as big a hit as Condition Scourge. I'm assuming. Going to need someone to run the numbers but I am taking an educated guess that Scourge overall is... well, I was always told if you have nothing nice to say then say nothing at all.

@Exqq.7451 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:Lol after today's changes this is going to be even more true! Get ready for some maths

Nah if you look at my opening post, the condition damage on a power scourge was closer to about 7%. The numbers may be incorrect now, but the ratios is fairly similar.

Running blood scourge and soul reaping in pvp with a barbarian amulet. I'm doing great spike damage on power scourge.

The update didn't affect my build at all using the sand savant trait.

We already had Reaper the supposed power elite end up better as condi so it would be quite comical if Scourge which was designed as condi ended up better as a power spec.