Metagaming is the worst part of ranked. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Metagaming is the worst part of ranked.

Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

Many high-level ranked players will tell you that ranked is a joke.

Why? It's pretty simple really. It's chock full of metagaming.

I'm not talking about the "meta" of builds. I'm talking about people who purposely take advantage of the game's rules to bend the game in their favor without explicitly cheating.

The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

We already have one egregious example of metagaming built into the game itself, known as Duo Queue. You can pair yourself with another high skill player and coordinate with them over voice chat. This allows you to set up incredibly effective spikes or CC chains in an otherwise chaotic game mode. Or perhaps pair a highly effective combo (IE double herald) together. This sort of behavior allows people to bend the match in their favor without actually improving their gameplay.

But duo queue isn't the only form of metagaming. We've heard of most of the different forms it can take by now:

  • Wintrading - Purposely throwing matches for money or favors
  • Off-hours queuing - Avoiding players you know are threats by queuing during times that they are not active.
  • Queue sniping - Attempting to queue at the same time as other players in order to get paired with them, or paired against weak players.
  • Boosting - Paying a more skilled player or group of players to raise your rank by playing on a low level alt. Similar to wintrading.
  • Botting - Using AI to play a large number of games, can make effective combos when using low-skill, high-reward builds on the AI. A great example are/were all the condi mirage bots running around the last few seasons.

These sorts of behaviors ruin the quality of a competitive experience, because winning or losing can be determined by who's bending the rules more.

What's the Solution?

First, duo queue needs to be removed from solo queue. Either create it as its own separate ranked format (maybe group v. group), or eliminate it entirely.

Beyond that, there is no simple AI solution to these problems. While it is theoretically possible for AI to detect some of these behaviors (IE Queue Sniping/Botting), it cannot detect all of them.

What needs to happen is punishment for players found to bend the rules. This requires human intervention -- first to identify the behavior, and second to mete out a punishment. There also needs to be a sliding scale of punishment. Repeat offenders should see heavier punishments. Something like the following:

  • First infraction: 1 week temporary ban from PvP
  • Second infraction: 1 month temporary ban from PvP
  • Third infraction: 6 month temporary IP (or MAC Address) ban from PvP
  • Fourth infraction: One year temporary IP (or MAC Address) ban from the whole game
  • Fifth infraction: Complete IP (or MAC Address) ban from the game.

The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

Comments

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:
    Many high-level ranked players will tell you that ranked is a joke.

    Why? It's pretty simple really. It's chock full of metagaming.

    I'm not talking about the "meta" of builds. I'm talking about people who purposely take advantage of the game's rules to bend the game in their favor without explicitly cheating.

    The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    We already have one egregious example of metagaming built into the game itself, known as Duo Queue. You can pair yourself with another high skill player and coordinate with them over voice chat. This allows you to set up incredibly effective spikes or CC chains in an otherwise chaotic game mode. Or perhaps pair a highly effective combo (IE double herald) together. This sort of behavior allows people to bend the match in their favor without actually improving their gameplay.

    But duo queue isn't the only form of metagaming. We've heard of most of the different forms it can take by now:

    • Wintrading - Purposely throwing matches for money or favors
    • Off-hours queuing - Avoiding players you know are threats by queuing during times that they are not active.
    • Queue sniping - Attempting to queue at the same time as other players in order to get paired with them, or paired against weak players.
    • Boosting - Paying a more skilled player or group of players to raise your rank by playing on a low level alt. Similar to wintrading.
    • Botting - Using AI to play a large number of games, can make effective combos when using low-skill, high-reward builds on the AI. A great example are/were all the condi mirage bots running around the last few seasons.

    These sorts of behaviors ruin the quality of a competitive experience, because winning or losing can be determined by who's bending the rules more.

    What's the Solution?

    First, duo queue needs to be removed from solo queue. Either create it as its own separate ranked format (maybe group v. group), or eliminate it entirely.

    Beyond that, there is no simple AI solution to these problems. While it is theoretically possible for AI to detect some of these behaviors (IE Queue Sniping/Botting), it cannot detect all of them.

    What needs to happen is punishment for players found to bend the rules. This requires human intervention -- first to identify the behavior, and second to mete out a punishment. There also needs to be a sliding scale of punishment. Repeat offenders should see heavier punishments. Something like the following:

    • First infraction: 1 week temporary ban from PvP
    • Second infraction: 1 month temporary ban from PvP
    • Third infraction: 6 month temporary IP (or MAC Address) ban from PvP
    • Fourth infraction: One year temporary IP (or MAC Address) ban from the whole game
    • Fifth infraction: Complete IP (or MAC Address) ban from the game.

    What I would like to point out is that PvP ranked duoQ is mostly used for people to play with friends or guildmates.
    Out of all the games I have played with duo, not once have I tried to use it to abuse anything for wictory, if removing it is waht you want, I suggest at the very LEAST to make duoQ possible at lower ranks. Up to gold 3 its possible, above its not.
    But reality is that its not gonna fix anything. Anet needs to start issuing punishment. R1 player shouldnt be matched against g3. FIX THIS FIRST.
    make duoq players play against other duoq players.
    Make high ranking players unable to find games as the dead of night, I would rather wait 10min between games then keep geting into 500-100 games.
    I played with sindrener not too long ago, this wasnt fun at all, absolute stomp. When I opened his stream he was duoQ, why in kitten nugged 1580 rank pleb like me can even get into game with him. This is part of the problem, if he can just duo with 1700 rank friend then they can preety much 2v5 against plebs like me.
    It boils down to low population in the end, removing duoQ would harm the game MORE then it will fix.
    Those that are dead set at abusing it for meaningless rank will do it anyways, and those like me that just play with friends and guildies will get punished for it.

  • Yes exactly! Everyone's at Arenanet's and eachother's throats over balance, but what does balance even matter if the main competitive arena isn't even fun to play anymore? Metagaming has totally ruined that, and has replaced classic Match Manipulation as an even worse alternative to ruining the game for pretty much everyone that isn't a super pro player who'd rather spend all their time cheesing the matchmaker instead of actually playing the game.

    DuoQ is definitely the catalyst people use to Metagame. With that gone, or as a separate option all these ways of metagaming and cheesing the system go with it:
    Class-swapping - IE double queuing as a class you know you can beat to guarantee at least one of that class to the enemy team and then swapping off to your counterpick before the match already starts. Almost non-existent without DuoQ.

    •Boosting - Objectively more difficult to do without DuoQ. Before DuoQ, we didn't have like 10 alts all belonging to the same top player with 90% winrates plaguing the leaderboard. In the SoloQ seasons, most the top players were still there; only with their one main account usually. When matchmaking was less manipulable it was really hard for them to promise "Hey, i'll boost your account to rank 1-10. No problem" because there was an actual sense of competition, and an actual chance to beat them when they had winrates similar to other good players.

    Smurfing - The act of queuing with a Legend or high-plat player who is playing on a bronze or silver ranked alt account to snipe silvers, golds, and low plats between for easy games. Impossible or pointless without DuoQ.

    •Queue-sniping/Queuing in the off hours - Would probably exist either way because that's what a lot of top players in this game do, but it's undoubtedly much easier to snipe specific low-ranked players with DuoQ. It's like the law of averages, instead of these 2 stacked top players being available to even out team; they're both on the same team, and since top players make up like 0.001% of the game's population, the odds of them actually being mirrored are next to none if they queue at the right time. It becomes even easier with other metagaming tactics like Class-swapping because if there were a specific(using Necro for example) Necro player that is playing, and the top players are having a really easy time farming them, they can repeat the aforementioned Class-swapping cheese to almost always put that Necro on the other team.

    When it comes to Wintrading... I agree that less Match Manipulation would exist without DuoQ. Wintrading however; is not the only form in which Match Manipulation exists, contrary to what some top players would have you believe. The definition of Match Manipulation itself has been manipulated in this game, and the only way it can be done(According to these top players) is in exchange for currency.
    The main reason why they want you to believe this is because classic wintrading is pointless and has mostly vanished with the reintroduction of DuoQ. There is no reason to pay for wins when you can Manipulate the outcome of matches easily and for free with all the aforementioned methods.
    On the other hand wintrading was more common with SoloQ because there was little to no other ways to manipulate the outcome of matches.

    What sounds worse to you? Paying for wins, or getting them easily/for free?
    Therefore; according to the top players that dabble here, Wintrading is the only way to match manipulate. Easy to blame when it doesn't exist anymore, I guess.

    Botting would still exist either way too. I don't see that as a product of DuoQ, but moreso as a result of Pip-farming being one of the easiest ways to farm gold in this game, all while pips are still given out for doing absolutely nothing. If they want bots gone, they'll stop giving the losing team pips at the end of ranked matches. Only the winner should get them, and bots are very predictable and usually lose close to all their games.

    Really good topic though. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be talked about to actually make some long-lasting and meaningful changes to Ranked.

    Remove Ranked DuoQ pls&ty

  • ButterPeanut.9746ButterPeanut.9746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    It's 2019 in a low population game that has little incentive to win. The benefits of "playing with a friend" far and away out weigh any possible metagaming negative of duo queue.

    However, I would appreciate ranked only allowing a single class swap per team per game, as well as not allowing the swap to be with an elite specialization that is already on your team. (aka can't swap to double FB)

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    I actually find the type of duo strat where they just roam together bursting to be pretty ez to beat you just don’t follow them and 2 players in similar elo can easily out carry. Obviously I’ve had matches where players on my team being in self-admittedly low elo players end up trying to follow them, even after I warned them before match started to just not follow but it can carry so hard when u get a 3 cap that even high tier players can have trouble with it. I’m not really sure what to say about solo vs. duo because if you are a high tier player u can mostly solo and get about as high as top ten, but duo q strats like I mentioned tend to inflate ppls ratings near legend which is ez top ten sometimes higher. I personally like to do a mix of both solo and little try hard duo q at the end of season so idk what to say. As far as fair even rating I’d be fine with it but I do love being able to duo q with a bud even if at times when try Harding it seems we cheat the system or make the game less fun for average rated players but I’ll never goes as far as to cheat so possibly punishments for real infractions I can agree on.
    But hey I’m just ranting idk if this would help or hurt but w.e
    Edit: note that while I do think Qing in off hours is a simple way for people to cheat system with possibly many wins for + a few points per time. I would honstely q a good bit in off hours anyways becuz 1 sometimes I like to get a couple matches in say the morning. I would often duo q late at night anyways becuz I am fairly busy much of the time during prime time. So I don’t exactly match manipulate, but I understand exactly what u mean that if I duo there is 0% chance of the teams having a fair rating distribution.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes I agree, ban players that are off-hour qing!!!!

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2019

    win trading - at least put in a 24 hour mail restriction to players you've recently played with. disable say/ map chat between teams, and disable whispers as well.
    off hours q'ing - points gained should be relative to your oppositions skill level. shouldn't get +20 for facing silvers and plats alike.
    q sniping - maybe add more dishonor for leaving a match, hide players names and specs during ready up, idk.
    boosting - don't know.
    botting - either software that detects the hanky panky or some sort of captcha.

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    I think it's pretty obvious and simple as far as the lengths the "top players" (LOL) will go to reach their desired ratings.

    In what game any where are there legitimate 90-95%+ win rates at the end of a season? hmmmmm

    maybe if arenanet devs took the time to actually play their game once in a while they would see and understand how very simple it is to see these oddities, and since they are the ones with the power to, check them out.

    it shouldnt require a court case for 140-8 and the like to be checked on.

    The best part to me is, they do it on stream, right in front of every one and still there are people who just blindly accept that its not happening because some "known" name is telling them that and they think defending these people some how gets them in good favor, real OMEGALUL.

    Funny how when people are "just memeing" etc their win rates and rating resemble or are lower than pretty much every top 50-100 player despite still duoq and tryharding, but for some reason previously their ratings were 200-300 (entire divisions) higher. So what's the real deal hmmmm?

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    Yes I agree, ban players that are off-hour qing!!!!

    This is one of those things that can be dealt with via AI -- Simply give far fewer points for matches won in off hourse (with unequal skill levels) and far bigger losses.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    As far as this issue goes for NA, Helseth said it years ago "just ban the problem people, it worked for EU with CC."

  • I agree that metagaming is a problem but Anet already punishes wintrading, and problems like off hour queueing and queue sniping can't really be avoided nor are they necessarily against the rules.

  • Playing Holo also gives an unfair advantage and I would like Holo players to be punished. The height of metagaming right there.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    I think it is what this game was ment to do, metas were to describe gameplay strategies backing the old game days, now they are meta if it’s a ovverperformance build/class that player should be playing, but that it’s what gw2 was made for...

    I’ve won some 1 vs 3 and rarely some 1 vs 5 and in some cases player had that pvp thing at the corner of the name, i won?

    Don’t ask me but my gimmick felt it was just stronger, was. 1 Condy spammer vs 5 power classes.

    Pvp here and titles mean nothing, sadly gw2 is known to be a bad pvp game, pretty but hollow.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Botting and win trading are happen, but not as often as people assume they do. I would not say they are an impactful issue. The rest is technically... not against the rules and happen very often. The solution against it is large population. In other words, it is an issue that will only keep getting worse.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I think it is what this game was ment to do, metas were to describe gameplay strategies backing the old game days, now they are meta if it’s a ovverperformance build/class that player should be playing, but that it’s what gw2 was made for...

    I’ve won some 1 vs 3 and rarely some 1 vs 5 and in some cases player had that pvp thing at the corner of the name, i won?

    Don’t ask me but my gimmick felt it was just stronger, was. 1 Condy spammer vs 5 power classes.

    Pvp here and titles mean nothing, sadly gw2 is known to be a bad pvp game, pretty but hollow.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Playing Holo also gives an unfair advantage and I would like Holo players to be punished. The height of metagaming right there.

    I'm not sure either of you understands what I meant by metagaming:

    The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I think it is what this game was ment to do, metas were to describe gameplay strategies backing the old game days, now they are meta if it’s a ovverperformance build/class that player should be playing, but that it’s what gw2 was made for...

    I’ve won some 1 vs 3 and rarely some 1 vs 5 and in some cases player had that pvp thing at the corner of the name, i won?

    Don’t ask me but my gimmick felt it was just stronger, was. 1 Condy spammer vs 5 power classes.

    Pvp here and titles mean nothing, sadly gw2 is known to be a bad pvp game, pretty but hollow.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Playing Holo also gives an unfair advantage and I would like Holo players to be punished. The height of metagaming right there.

    I'm not sure either of you understands what I meant by metagaming:

    The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    I guess you can't really convey sarcasm over text, can you? It was not meant as a serious comment.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I think it is what this game was ment to do, metas were to describe gameplay strategies backing the old game days, now they are meta if it’s a ovverperformance build/class that player should be playing, but that it’s what gw2 was made for...

    I’ve won some 1 vs 3 and rarely some 1 vs 5 and in some cases player had that pvp thing at the corner of the name, i won?

    Don’t ask me but my gimmick felt it was just stronger, was. 1 Condy spammer vs 5 power classes.

    Pvp here and titles mean nothing, sadly gw2 is known to be a bad pvp game, pretty but hollow.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Playing Holo also gives an unfair advantage and I would like Holo players to be punished. The height of metagaming right there.

    I'm not sure either of you understands what I meant by metagaming:

    The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    I guess you can't really convey sarcasm over text, can you? It was not meant as a serious comment.

    If you were to read and comprehend what metagaming means, you would not be posting this nonsense.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I think it is what this game was ment to do, metas were to describe gameplay strategies backing the old game days, now they are meta if it’s a ovverperformance build/class that player should be playing, but that it’s what gw2 was made for...

    I’ve won some 1 vs 3 and rarely some 1 vs 5 and in some cases player had that pvp thing at the corner of the name, i won?

    Don’t ask me but my gimmick felt it was just stronger, was. 1 Condy spammer vs 5 power classes.

    Pvp here and titles mean nothing, sadly gw2 is known to be a bad pvp game, pretty but hollow.

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:
    Playing Holo also gives an unfair advantage and I would like Holo players to be punished. The height of metagaming right there.

    I'm not sure either of you understands what I meant by metagaming:

    The Metagame, or game about the game, is any approach to a game that transcends or operates outside of the prescribed rules of the game, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game.

    I guess you can't really convey sarcasm over text, can you? It was not meant as a serious comment.

    If you were to read and comprehend what metagaming means, you would not be posting this

    Joking with metagame definition one could assume builds out devs control and understandings lol...

    wich by defenition isn’t like that, but in gw2 that what metas end doing.

    I always believed Anet makes a low skill for the supposed metagame, easy to understand even and reach for the most dull pvp players, this tends to cut gaps between players, but ends outside paper powercreeping builds and classes design.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:
    I think it's pretty obvious and simple as far as the lengths the "top players" (LOL) will go to reach their desired ratings.

    In what game any where are there legitimate 90-95%+ win rates at the end of a season? hmmmmm

    maybe if arenanet devs took the time to actually play their game once in a while they would see and understand how very simple it is to see these oddities, and since they are the ones with the power to, check them out.

    it shouldnt require a court case for 140-8 and the like to be checked on.

    The best part to me is, they do it on stream, right in front of every one and still there are people who just blindly accept that its not happening because some "known" name is telling them that and they think defending these people some how gets them in good favor, real OMEGALUL.

    Funny how when people are "just memeing" etc their win rates and rating resemble or are lower than pretty much every top 50-100 player despite still duoq and tryharding, but for some reason previously their ratings were 200-300 (entire divisions) higher. So what's the real deal hmmmm?

    You're clearly someone who sees what's going on, so I'll respond to your post out of anyone else's.

    You know what personally bugs me the most out of this stuff? It's that they don't stop at positioning their main accounts at the top. What bugs me more than that, is that after they've secured these high ratings on main accounts, then they sign off the main for 3 days or more, and begin playing ALT accounts. During their ALT account phases, they don't even try hard to queue snipe, they just casually play all day long, and when they see players who are in a game with them that threaten high leaderboard positions or maybe just someone they don't like, or maybe someone they DO like, they will choose to try hard and win or throw, depending on who they want to see lose rating or gain it. This encompasses the larger way that they control the leaderboards. It's a lot easier to make people lose rating, than it is to try and gain rating. This is true with the glicko algorithm, and especially true with how easy it is to throw a conquest game. In our game of Guild Wars 2, it is almost a certain loss if even 1 player AFKs or walks around doing absolutely nothing, leaving you in a 4v5.

    ^ There is so much of that non TOS breaking kitten happening nowadays, that ranked is actually unplayable, concerning any real representation of rating reflecting player skill levels. Lately I've thought a lot about how very disappointing this is, how truly easy it would be for Arenanet to eliminate this garbage cheating, how I know they are aware of what's going on but choose to allow it to happen. I remember reading in the TOS how Arenanet said something like: "We will provide a fair & competitive environment for everyone". That is something they have not done at all. I mean they don't even try and I know they know what's going on. Seriously, a junior networker could come in for an internship on a weekend, get paid nothing, and figure out who was obviously manipulating matches simply by watching the ISPs & queue times of matches and who were in those matches. This is not something that is hard to do, nor would it require any financial resources to do. Kind of feels like this is Arenanet breaking their own TOS tbh. I don't think gaming consumers take this kind of stuff seriously enough.

    Look I don't want to harp on Arenanet and cause problems but kitten man, this stuff has gotten seriously out of hand at this point. Speaking for myself, as a player consumer who has invested probably nearly 1000 USD or more into this game within the past 8 years, I feel like I have the right to demand that Arenanet upholds their end of the TOS by eliminating this obvious cheating that is ruining the game for me as a consumer. That or demand a full refund. One or the other.

  • Yes its a big issue, and it will probably never get fixed. The only competitive part of high rank pvp is seeing who can metagame harder.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    About botting, can't we just implement something like a sophisticated captcha when the match window pops up?

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Vicariuz.1605 said:
    I think it's pretty obvious and simple as far as the lengths the "top players" (LOL) will go to reach their desired ratings.

    In what game any where are there legitimate 90-95%+ win rates at the end of a season? hmmmmm

    maybe if arenanet devs took the time to actually play their game once in a while they would see and understand how very simple it is to see these oddities, and since they are the ones with the power to, check them out.

    it shouldnt require a court case for 140-8 and the like to be checked on.

    The best part to me is, they do it on stream, right in front of every one and still there are people who just blindly accept that its not happening because some "known" name is telling them that and they think defending these people some how gets them in good favor, real OMEGALUL.

    Funny how when people are "just memeing" etc their win rates and rating resemble or are lower than pretty much every top 50-100 player despite still duoq and tryharding, but for some reason previously their ratings were 200-300 (entire divisions) higher. So what's the real deal hmmmm?

    You're clearly someone who sees what's going on, so I'll respond to your post out of anyone else's.

    You know what personally bugs me the most out of this stuff? It's that they don't stop at positioning their main accounts at the top. What bugs me more than that, is that after they've secured these high ratings on main accounts, then they sign off the main for 3 days or more, and begin playing ALT accounts. During their ALT account phases, they don't even try hard to queue snipe, they just casually play all day long, and when they see players who are in a game with them that threaten high leaderboard positions or maybe just someone they don't like, or maybe someone they DO like, they will choose to try hard and win or throw, depending on who they want to see lose rating or gain it. This encompasses the larger way that they control the leaderboards. It's a lot easier to make people lose rating, than it is to try and gain rating. This is true with the glicko algorithm, and especially true with how easy it is to throw a conquest game. In our game of Guild Wars 2, it is almost a certain loss if even 1 player AFKs or walks around doing absolutely nothing, leaving you in a 4v5.

    ^ There is so much of that non TOS breaking kitten happening nowadays, that ranked is actually unplayable, concerning any real representation of rating reflecting player skill levels. Lately I've thought a lot about how very disappointing this is, how truly easy it would be for Arenanet to eliminate this garbage cheating, how I know they are aware of what's going on but choose to allow it to happen. I remember reading in the TOS how Arenanet said something like: "We will provide a fair & competitive environment for everyone". That is something they have not done at all. I mean they don't even try and I know they know what's going on. Seriously, a junior networker could come in for an internship on a weekend, get paid nothing, and figure out who was obviously manipulating matches simply by watching the ISPs & queue times of matches and who were in those matches. This is not something that is hard to do, nor would it require any financial resources to do. Kind of feels like this is Arenanet breaking their own TOS tbh. I don't think gaming consumers take this kind of stuff seriously enough.

    Look I don't want to harp on Arenanet and cause problems but kitten man, this stuff has gotten seriously out of hand at this point. Speaking for myself, as a player consumer who has invested probably nearly 1000 USD or more into this game within the past 8 years, I feel like I have the right to demand that Arenanet upholds their end of the TOS by eliminating this obvious cheating that is ruining the game for me as a consumer. That or demand a full refund. One or the other.

    That's really the crux of it, they know what's going on and they choose to ignore it. I wouldn't mind a refund myself at this point.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    As some one who has absolutely spammed ranked matches all season, even with terrible internet at a point I can ppl there is a huge difference in this and actual try Harding. If I actually decided to stop when I reach a decent rating then yeah my rating would probably be pretty high but I have about 400 matches played and I didn’t even play for the first week and still half solo have duo my rating commonly gets to top ten level though can go as far down as plat1. So how is it unethical if I actually plan a duo and try hard at end of season to actually end top ten. I’m not win trading to do this I’m just taking my rating serious for once again I played about 400 games mostly solo playing w.e I want for fun and was still top 10-20 level much of the time it seems if I actually try hard and plan to save my rating instead of playing 100 more that I can ethically reach top ten?
    I do hate how some ppl go on alts and win trade but I’ve seen these people play and they often get out of practice and end up playing poorly and we all know it. So over time even if anet doesn’t punish them they often still lose so what’s the problem. Still ban wintraders and try to reward good play.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:
    This requires human intervention

    management will not pay for that

  • Vicariuz.1605Vicariuz.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    As some one who has absolutely spammed ranked matches all season, even with terrible internet at a point I can ppl there is a huge difference in this and actual try Harding. If I actually decided to stop when I reach a decent rating then yeah my rating would probably be pretty high but I have about 400 matches played and I didn’t even play for the first week and still half solo have duo my rating commonly gets to top ten level though can go as far down as plat1. So how is it unethical if I actually plan a duo and try hard at end of season to actually end top ten. I’m not win trading to do this I’m just taking my rating serious for once again I played about 400 games mostly solo playing w.e I want for fun and was still top 10-20 level much of the time it seems if I actually try hard and plan to save my rating instead of playing 100 more that I can ethically reach top ten?
    I do hate how some ppl go on alts and win trade but I’ve seen these people play and they often get out of practice and end up playing poorly and we all know it. So over time even if anet doesn’t punish them they often still lose so what’s the problem. Still ban wintraders and try to reward good play.

    Because that's not what goes on. These people aren't just "saving their rating" they are exploiting the matchmaker by sync queuing into their friends at lowest population times, and even on stream. It's done in a way that getting "evidence or proof" is beyond the scope of a party not privy to the same data that the devs have. Devs can do things like check IPs, they can look up the games that are played off stream, they can look at chat logs (in game), etc. There are such things as private discord servers and calls that prohibit the eyes of devs from seeing what goes on. It's been going on for years, what in the world would actually make people believe that it has magically stopped.

    I have no problem with people playing minimum games to keep their rating high, that is smart play, what I have a problem with is people gaming the system and routinely getting away with it because the developers of this game very obviously have no interest in the integrity of their game.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    Profession swapping is just cancer, what you start with should be what you finish with. That would easily fix any favoring and make people work for their win rather than rock, paper, scissor every single outcomes with the best choices, start innovating with the profession you have already invested choice into which will be a real display of competence.