Bring back quickness stomps - Remove mount stomps - Fix sentry marks — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Bring back quickness stomps - Remove mount stomps - Fix sentry marks

Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 29, 2019 in WvW

There' no reason not to. Stomping is neigh impossible in WvW and almost never worth it VS cleaving anymore. Weren't they only removed because of quickness revive anyway? Bring back quickness stomp (don't bring back quickness revive) There are so many ways to revive players (stealth, downed teleport, revival skills, mercy runes, etc.) but NOTHING that helps players finish off the player that some people argue should already be dead (no downstate).

Oh and while we're at it.... REMOVE mount stomp. It's disgusting. That skill should only deal damage. Mount stomp removes any possibility of a small group ever beating a larger group. A mount is basically an infinite defiance bar and 10k barrier. This is bad for the game in every way, cmon now - it shouldn't stomp players. And when a sentry that marked you dies - it should remove the marked effect. Let's make WvW alive again please. Too many mechanics are against low mans. We'll move on to invulnerable fortifications after all this gets changed, too.

Comments

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    actually mounts are really good for gankers. if u got a good duo. both stealth if push = down. mouunt pounce = win.

    and ppl wanted perma downs. well u got ur mounts now.

    also wvw will be slower without mounts. less ppl will probably play

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How does it affect you? What could you do before these 3 things and what can't you do now? What class/spec you play. That would tell me if these are indeed WvW issues or just you play style being affected issues

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    actually mounts are really good for gankers. if u got a good duo. both stealth if push = down. mouunt pounce = win.

    and ppl wanted perma downs. well u got ur mounts now.

    also wvw will be slower without mounts. less ppl will probably play

    Ya. Mounts are good for outnumbering opponents, as I said. They can keep the mounts. Just remove the stomp.

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    How does it affect you? What could you do before these 3 things and what can't you do now? What class/spec you play. That would tell me if these are indeed WvW issues or just you play style being affected issues

    I play every class.

    Before the removal of quickness stomps, a group of 5 could target one in a group of 15 and quickness stomp him.
    Sentries simply shouldn't keep you marked when they are killed. The very purpose of the design behind sentries is to kill them if you don't want to be marked. Therefore, sentries don't currently work the way that they logically should.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    There' no reason not to. Stomping is neigh impossible in WvW and almost never worth it VS cleaving anymore. Weren't they only removed because of quickness revive anyway? Bring back quickness stomp (don't bring back quickness revive) There are so many ways to revive players (stealth, downed teleport, revival skills, mercy runes, etc.) but NOTHING that helps players finish off the player that some people argue should already be dead (no downstate).

    Oh and while we're at it.... REMOVE mount stomp. It's disgusting. That skill should only deal damage. Mount stomp removes any possibility of a small group ever beating a larger group. A mount is basically an infinite defiance bar and 10k barrier. This is bad for the game in every way, cmon now - it shouldn't stomp players. And when a sentry that marked you dies - it should remove the marked effect. Let's make WvW alive again please. Too many mechanics are against low mans. We'll move on to invulnerable fortifications after all this gets changed, too.

    "There is NOTHING that helps players stomp players so lets REMOVE the OP mount stomp."

    Really... is this what WvW discussions has become...

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    actually mounts are really good for gankers. if u got a good duo. both stealth if push = down. mouunt pounce = win.

    and ppl wanted perma downs. well u got ur mounts now.

    also wvw will be slower without mounts. less ppl will probably play

    Ya. Mounts are good for outnumbering opponents, as I said. They can keep the mounts. Just remove the stomp.

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    How does it affect you? What could you do before these 3 things and what can't you do now? What class/spec you play. That would tell me if these are indeed WvW issues or just you play style being affected issues

    I play every class.

    Before the removal of quickness stomps, a group of 5 could target one in a group of 15 and quickness stomp him.
    Sentries simply shouldn't keep you marked when they are killed. The very purpose of the design behind sentries is to kill them if you don't want to be marked. Therefore, sentries don't currently work the way that they logically should.

    actually not my point. 2 v many can be evil with 2 stealth 1 bursts 1 mounts after 1 is down and bombs. :3 of course this can be abused by more. and since ppl wanted down state - mounts pounce is downstate with extra steps

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    There' no reason not to. Stomping is neigh impossible in WvW and almost never worth it VS cleaving anymore. Weren't they only removed because of quickness revive anyway? Bring back quickness stomp (don't bring back quickness revive) There are so many ways to revive players (stealth, downed teleport, revival skills, mercy runes, etc.) but NOTHING that helps players finish off the player that some people argue should already be dead (no downstate).

    Oh and while we're at it.... REMOVE mount stomp. It's disgusting. That skill should only deal damage. Mount stomp removes any possibility of a small group ever beating a larger group. A mount is basically an infinite defiance bar and 10k barrier. This is bad for the game in every way, cmon now - it shouldn't stomp players. And when a sentry that marked you dies - it should remove the marked effect. Let's make WvW alive again please. Too many mechanics are against low mans. We'll move on to invulnerable fortifications after all this gets changed, too.

    "There is NOTHING that helps players stomp players so lets REMOVE the OP mount stomp."

    Really... is this what WvW discussions has become...

    Yes it's sad isn't it? None of the WvW veterans wanted mounts at all and with a dwindling playerbase there is still a vocal minority who defends mounts on the forums, not understanding what such "additions" have done to roaming/havock and WvW as a whole.

    Other such "additions" include the marked mechanic (needs to be removed if the sentry is killed and it'll be fine) tier 3 objectives being impossible to even go near (this means a borderland with tier 3 keeps/towers means you just flip camps - shoutouts to Jade Quarry) and for those who are new to GW2 such as yourself, the borderlands bloodlust was also very hated and contributed to the death of GvG. Even this many years later, it should still be changed to do something other than a stat increase.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    There' no reason not to. Stomping is neigh impossible in WvW and almost never worth it VS cleaving anymore. Weren't they only removed because of quickness revive anyway? Bring back quickness stomp (don't bring back quickness revive) There are so many ways to revive players (stealth, downed teleport, revival skills, mercy runes, etc.) but NOTHING that helps players finish off the player that some people argue should already be dead (no downstate).

    Oh and while we're at it.... REMOVE mount stomp. It's disgusting. That skill should only deal damage. Mount stomp removes any possibility of a small group ever beating a larger group. A mount is basically an infinite defiance bar and 10k barrier. This is bad for the game in every way, cmon now - it shouldn't stomp players. And when a sentry that marked you dies - it should remove the marked effect. Let's make WvW alive again please. Too many mechanics are against low mans. We'll move on to invulnerable fortifications after all this gets changed, too.

    I think you mean remove downstate. Downstate favors the side with numbers, allowing numbers to always beat skill. No downstate allows smaller groups to slowly thin out blobs. Mount stomp is the only thing allowing smaller groups to pick people off of blobs at the moment.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
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  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry but after what I saw last night (insta rez's when fighting 2 scourges and a DH + rev) mount stomp is good lol. Hard fight when it was a 2v4 (we won it in the end) but it was crazy (we were dps reaper/dps mirage, both non meta). Made for a good stream tho :p

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    Hi. I'm a WvW veteran who likes the mount. I spend a lot of time either solo roaming or blobbing (with both closed and open tag). I started playing WvW in 2012 and I have a few thousand hours in it, before you tell me I don't understand how WvW works. Apologies for my English.

    Were there problems when the mount first released? yeah, roaming sucked - but once they added the Lance skill I started enjoying it again, even more-so when they made it unblockable. Lance makes it so you're both on even ground starting the fight and removed the getting oneshot from in stealth (of course this can still happen if you're in a fight and someone sneaks up on you, but that's no different to before the mount). I see a lot of complaining about having to chase people around, or people running away, but this also happened before the mount on classes that had the mobility to do so. Personally I don't find it fun killing people that are there for their daily from PvE, or that are new to WvW, or that die in a couple of hits etc. and if I see someone desperately trying to run away from me on their mount, I'll probably leave them to it and try and find someone that actually wants to fight. Now, I'll talk about what I think you're mad about - getting mount stomped whilst roaming. If you're roaming and go down (and no one stealths or resses you) you were probably going to die anyway if someone else came along.

    On mount stomping in blobs - I feel if it's used right, it can really turn the tide of a fight. I've never liked downstate much, the no-downstate events were some of the most fun times I had in WvW, and mount-stomping just helps kill people faster. It makes fights faster, or at least more fast-paced. You may die quicker, but you can at least run back much quicker with the mount.

    Even if it's annoying, I also like the marked mechanic. It would make sense for the enemy to know where you are after you have been scouted. However it probably shouldn't last as long as it does, or it should have a max range - e.g. if you're 2000 range from the sentry post then it drops off.

    Bloodlust causing the death of GvG? Bloodlust doesn't even exist in Obsidian Sanctum, so that only leaves the ones that fought beneath South Camp, which was a kitten place to fight (mostly because borders had queues back then). What killed GvG was all the good guilds stacking on the same server and having nothing to fight. I have never heard of anyone hating on this or calling it the reason for the death of GvG.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    Hi. I'm a WvW veteran who likes the mount. I spend a lot of time either solo roaming or blobbing (with both closed and open tag). I started playing WvW in 2012 and I have a few thousand hours in it, before you tell me I don't understand how WvW works. Apologies for my English.

    Were there problems when the mount first released? yeah, roaming sucked - but once they added the Lance skill I started enjoying it again, even more-so when they made it unblockable. Lance makes it so you're both on even ground starting the fight and removed the getting oneshot from in stealth (of course this can still happen if you're in a fight and someone sneaks up on you, but that's no different to before the mount). I see a lot of complaining about having to chase people around, or people running away, but this also happened before the mount on classes that had the mobility to do so. Personally I don't find it fun killing people that are there for their daily from PvE, or that are new to WvW, or that die in a couple of hits etc. and if I see someone desperately trying to run away from me on their mount, I'll probably leave them to it and try and find someone that actually wants to fight. Now, I'll talk about what I think you're mad about - getting mount stomped whilst roaming. If you're roaming and go down (and no one stealths or resses you) you were probably going to die anyway if someone else came along.

    On mount stomping in blobs - I feel if it's used right, it can really turn the tide of a fight. I've never liked downstate much, the no-downstate events were some of the most fun times I had in WvW, and mount-stomping just helps kill people faster. It makes fights faster, or at least more fast-paced. You may die quicker, but you can at least run back much quicker with the mount.

    Even if it's annoying, I also like the marked mechanic. It would make sense for the enemy to know where you are after you have been scouted. However it probably shouldn't last as long as it does, or it should have a max range - e.g. if you're 2000 range from the sentry post then it drops off.

    Bloodlust causing the death of GvG? Bloodlust doesn't even exist in Obsidian Sanctum, so that only leaves the ones that fought beneath South Camp, which was a kitten place to fight (mostly because borders had queues back then). What killed GvG was all the good guilds stacking on the same server and having nothing to fight. I have never heard of anyone hating on this or calling it the reason for the death of GvG.

    All of this I agree with 10000000%

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    On mount stomping in blobs - I feel if it's used right, it can really turn the tide of a fight.

    The question is, should one mounted person be able to turn the tide of a fight? My opinion is that no, they shouldn't be able to. Especially when, by definition, they were not even participating in the fight since they are mounted. It's a garbage mechanic and the sooner it's gone from the game, the better.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SWI.4127 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    On mount stomping in blobs - I feel if it's used right, it can really turn the tide of a fight.

    The question is, should one mounted person be able to turn the tide of a fight? My opinion is that no, they shouldn't be able to. Especially when, by definition, they were not even participating in the fight since they are mounted. It's a garbage mechanic and the sooner it's gone from the game, the better.

    The followup question is, why are your own zergs mounted flanking roamers, the thieves, the rangers, the mesmers etc just letting that enemy sit there behind the zerg on his mount waiting to turn the fight?

    Or do you not care about them, only about the guards, revs, necros in meta zerg, everybody stack on com?

    And people wonder why I say the community keep sending mixed signals...

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruufio.1496 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    There' no reason not to. Stomping is neigh impossible in WvW and almost never worth it VS cleaving anymore. Weren't they only removed because of quickness revive anyway? Bring back quickness stomp (don't bring back quickness revive) There are so many ways to revive players (stealth, downed teleport, revival skills, mercy runes, etc.) but NOTHING that helps players finish off the player that some people argue should already be dead (no downstate).

    Oh and while we're at it.... REMOVE mount stomp. It's disgusting. That skill should only deal damage. Mount stomp removes any possibility of a small group ever beating a larger group. A mount is basically an infinite defiance bar and 10k barrier. This is bad for the game in every way, cmon now - it shouldn't stomp players. And when a sentry that marked you dies - it should remove the marked effect. Let's make WvW alive again please. Too many mechanics are against low mans. We'll move on to invulnerable fortifications after all this gets changed, too.

    "There is NOTHING that helps players stomp players so lets REMOVE the OP mount stomp."

    Really... is this what WvW discussions has become...

    Yes it's sad isn't it? None of the WvW veterans wanted mounts at all and with a dwindling playerbase there is still a vocal minority who defends mounts on the forums, not understanding what such "additions" have done to roaming/havock and WvW as a whole.

    Other such "additions" include the marked mechanic (needs to be removed if the sentry is killed and it'll be fine) tier 3 objectives being impossible to even go near (this means a borderland with tier 3 keeps/towers means you just flip camps - shoutouts to Jade Quarry) and for those who are new to GW2 such as yourself, the borderlands bloodlust was also very hated and contributed to the death of GvG. Even this many years later, it should still be changed to do something other than a stat increase.

    i am a vet. i wanted mounts. i roam too. @,..,@ i'm a commander formost. some ppl are just too lazy to use gorilla tactics or ask players for a one on one.

    but i dislike bloodlust so much. its anti few.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SWI.4127 said:

    @Lottie.5370 said:
    On mount stomping in blobs - I feel if it's used right, it can really turn the tide of a fight.

    The question is, should one mounted person be able to turn the tide of a fight? My opinion is that no, they shouldn't be able to. Especially when, by definition, they were not even participating in the fight since they are mounted. It's a garbage mechanic and the sooner it's gone from the game, the better.

    The followup question is, why are your own zergs mounted flanking roamers, the thieves, the rangers, the mesmers etc just letting that enemy sit there behind the zerg on his mount waiting to turn the fight?

    Or do you not care about them, only about the guards, revs, necros in meta zerg, everybody stack on com?

    And people wonder why I say the community keep sending mixed signals...

    With triple dodge you don't even have to be anywhere close to the enemy roamers

  • lodjur.1284lodjur.1284 Member ✭✭✭

    Just remove the downstate or at least vastly tone down ressing speed by like 50-75% and add diminishing returns for multiple ressers. Rallying I don't mind but just the instant ress when you finally manage to down someone while outnumbered is disheartening.

    Keep warclaw stomping tho, it's fun and never really had it impact any fight, especially not while outnumbered.

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  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭

    Mount stomps? Idk how many times smaller groups defeated larger ones just because they could snipe 1 person and then some1 ran in, stomped, and ran back before that 1 cool kid enemy FB clicked one button and instantly ressed him (pretty much mount stomp is the only option, except for some lucky corrupt boons). Remove instant ress from guardians or remove downed state completly and you can delete mount stomp. Without any of those, dont touch it.

    Sentry? It used to be a problem when they first implemented it to the game. Nowadays ppl know how it works and play around it. But yeah, Marked debuff should be instantly cleansed the moment sentry dies, I agree with that.

    And now crème de la crème. Deleting quickness stomps during HoT was painful, especially for me when I used to be chrono main (kek). But now, in PoF age, I dont see how this could come back in any way. Why? Let me explain:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Be_Quick_or_Be_Killed < - first read this
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deadeye's_Gaze < - then read this
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Assassin's_Signet < - then read this
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malicious_Backstab < - and at last read this

    1 class, 2 traits, 2 skills. The moment you bring back quickness affecting stomps you gonna understand why I posted those 4 links. You'll get deleted from the map faster than you blink, thanks to ANet's cool balance Dev team.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    Half the problem with downstate isn't its existence, its useful sometimes both for small and large groups. The real problem is that while we have revival skills and traits, we don't have finishing skills and traits, so there's no effective counter beyond.. just attacking.

    That's why people enjoy the mount stomp so much, Make skills like Warrior banner finish enemies in a larger AoE and with higher effectiveness, and spread this functionality to other skills, and you'll quickly see that attitude change.

    And add some traits that help to improve finishing too, if players are willing to take them. Risk and reward.

    Example of a reworked Glyph of Renewal for Ele:

    • Fire: Finish enemies
    • Water: Revive allies
    • Air: Auto-finish enemies the next time they're downed (timed)
    • Earth: Auto-revive allies the next time they're downed (timed)

    See how easy it is to solve the downed state problem by giving players access to something like this..

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  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    Mount stomp helped solve an often complained about issue that would pop up at least once a week on the forums. People complained about easy revival giving too much advantage to greater numbers, who already have an advantage. If a smaller group gets some downs, having 1-2 people mounted to stomp downs is a counter to easy revival, and allows smaller groups to do some damage to larger groups.

  • quickness stomps were garbage and shouldn't return. classes with easy access to it (already a huge advantage) get an even bigger boost. so what then, give quickness to more classes? yay now everything is even more power crept. if anything quickness should be nerfed from some classes.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    I LOVE MOUNT STOMPS! It's very decisive. Your downed, and if a mounted player reacts quickly enough, your not getting back up. Too many times I seen enemy players ressed, or recovered after their buddies killed an enemy they had tagged. I like the mount stomps. Even when i'm on the receiving end, even I have to say..."well dang it, gotta go respawn".