Who is Queen Jennah's mother? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Who is Queen Jennah's mother?

In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

Answers

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't you know she and Anise are Lyssa in disguise?

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • @Arden.7480 said:
    Don't you know she and Anise are Lyssa in disguise?

    I always wondered about that. Look, if it's true, it means that the Exodus is incorrect. I may have a partial explanation for that.

  • @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Estelle is just being a typical "White Mantle should be the rulers, not the monarchy" because they happened to rule Kryta for 8 years during the GW1 era. She's not talking about Jennah's birth status.

    That said, we don't know who Jennah's parents were, just that her father was king and died when Jennah was too young to rule by law.

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Don't you know she and Anise are Lyssa in disguise?

    I always wondered about that. Look, if it's true, it means that the Exodus is incorrect. I may have a partial explanation for that.

    Anise is Livia's daughter by all appearances. I doubt a goddess is the daughter of some necromancer just over 250 years old. Besides, Kormir talked to Lyssa recently, which would put a huge hole in the theory because Lyssa officially left the world.

    Also, the Exodus of the Gods was the event 1,000 years ago, when they began to reside in the afterlives/god realms near Tyria in the Mists, not their post-ABaddon's death leaving of even those areas. The Six still visited the world after the Exodus here and there; rarely, but they did visit now and then.

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  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    I'm not sure where the wiki gets the 1290 from, but one of the Grove's dialogues (set 1325) says that Jennah's 'Already almost thirty'. It's not precise, but it would mean that she's in her early-to-mid thirties now.

    Other things we know:
    *Jennah had to deal with a regency at first. For argument's sake, let's say that means she was under 20 when she took the throne.
    *1326 marked the tenth year of Jennah's rule. For argument's sake, let's say that's dated from the end of the regency.

    Between those two facts, the earliest she could have been born was thirty years before the first Jubilee- 1296. The oldest she could be in Icebrood Saga is 36.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Don't you know she and Anise are Lyssa in disguise?

    I think you will find Jennah is actually the real Joko in disguise. What Aurene fought was an imposter.

    I mean look at the evidence - only Joko was powerful enough to protect Ebonhawke from Kralkatorrik when it awoke. And as if Joko could ever be tricked into a cage by someone as insignificant as a former God.

    Just try not to think about Joko and Logan and it is all fine...

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    Her status as heir to the throne is ambiguous, but it's an abandoned plotline. I think it was established at some point in lore that she rules Kryta not because of her status, but because she was the only one left who was suitable to do so.

    She's literally the last of her lineage, though this has been disputed as well.

    See https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tyrian_royalty_family_tree .

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  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @anninke.7469 said:
    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    There's a ? next to the date, indicating that it's a rough approximation, and estimated, guess.

    Based on the Queen's Jubilee, she was crowned in 1316 AE. If we assume that Tyria works with the same way as most of America with no longer being a minor, that could mark her 18th birthyear. In other words, she was born in 1928 AE if so. This would also make her 27 during the personal story, thus the sylvari line @Aaron Ansari.1604 linked would be accurate.

    And thus, during 1330 AE of Season 3, she'd have been 32.

    I would probably suggest altering the Tyrian royal family tree article to say "1925-1300" as that seems more accurate.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Her status as heir to the throne is ambiguous, but it's an abandoned plotline. I think it was established at some point in lore that she rules Kryta not because of her status, but because she was the only one left who was suitable to do so.

    She's literally the last of her lineage, though this has been disputed as well.

    Minor clarification: There's implication of there being an heir to the throne after Jennah. Nothing questions Jennah's own rights as being the current queen (beyond, y'know, White Mantle propaganda). What this means is that Jennah has some distant relative who can trace their own lineage to an ancestor of Jennah - most likely Queen Salma or King Baede (who did have four children, after all).

    Jennah was 100% the legitimate next in line ruler after her father.

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  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With all of our theories we need to create a secret group of GW-nati :D

    The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown.

    H. P. Lovecraft

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @anninke.7469 said:
    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    There's a ? next to the date, indicating that it's a rough approximation, and estimated, guess.

    Based on the Queen's Jubilee, she was crowned in 1316 AE. If we assume that Tyria works with the same way as most of America with no longer being a minor, that could mark her 18th birthyear. In other words, she was born in 1928 AE if so. This would also make her 27 during the personal story, thus the sylvari line @Aaron Ansari.1604 linked would be accurate.

    And thus, during 1330 AE of Season 3, she'd have been 32.

    I would probably suggest altering the Tyrian royal family tree article to say "1925-1300" as that seems more accurate.

    Yeah, I noticed the question mark which is why I'm curious about her actual age. As well as the "she was too young to rule when her father died in 1310" fact. Too young at 20 sounds a little weird. It would be nice to have some accurate in-game info on (at least the current) rulers of Tyria.

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Anise is Livia's daughter by all appearances. I doubt a goddess is the daughter of some necromancer just over 250 years old. Besides, Kormir talked to Lyssa recently, which would put a huge hole in the theory because Lyssa officially left the world.

    pulls on tinfoil hat
    Did Lyssa actually leave? Or was it one of the twins with an illusion of the other sister?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @anninke.7469 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @anninke.7469 said:
    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    There's a ? next to the date, indicating that it's a rough approximation, and estimated, guess.

    Based on the Queen's Jubilee, she was crowned in 1316 AE. If we assume that Tyria works with the same way as most of America with no longer being a minor, that could mark her 18th birthyear. In other words, she was born in 1928 AE if so. This would also make her 27 during the personal story, thus the sylvari line @Aaron Ansari.1604 linked would be accurate.

    And thus, during 1330 AE of Season 3, she'd have been 32.

    I would probably suggest altering the Tyrian royal family tree article to say "1925-1300" as that seems more accurate.

    Yeah, I noticed the question mark which is why I'm curious about her actual age. As well as the "she was too young to rule when her father died in 1310" fact. Too young at 20 sounds a little weird. It would be nice to have some accurate in-game info on (at least the current) rulers of Tyria.

    Well 1298 would mean she was 12 in 1310. So it makes more sense.

    @RyuDragnier.9476 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Anise is Livia's daughter by all appearances. I doubt a goddess is the daughter of some necromancer just over 250 years old. Besides, Kormir talked to Lyssa recently, which would put a huge hole in the theory because Lyssa officially left the world.

    pulls on tinfoil hat
    Did Lyssa actually leave? Or was it one of the twins with an illusion of the other sister?

    I imagine the Goddess of Truth would be able to see through Lyssa's illusions.

    Though I'd prefer my theory that Kormir is the culprit, not Lyssa. Lyssa would be too predictable and boring, not to mention an odd choice overall. Kormir, on the other hand, is actually foreshadowed properly.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @anninke.7469 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @anninke.7469 said:
    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    There's a ? next to the date, indicating that it's a rough approximation, and estimated, guess.

    Based on the Queen's Jubilee, she was crowned in 1316 AE. If we assume that Tyria works with the same way as most of America with no longer being a minor, that could mark her 18th birthyear. In other words, she was born in 1928 AE if so. This would also make her 27 during the personal story, thus the sylvari line @Aaron Ansari.1604 linked would be accurate.

    And thus, during 1330 AE of Season 3, she'd have been 32.

    I would probably suggest altering the Tyrian royal family tree article to say "1925-1300" as that seems more accurate.

    Yeah, I noticed the question mark which is why I'm curious about her actual age. As well as the "she was too young to rule when her father died in 1310" fact. Too young at 20 sounds a little weird. It would be nice to have some accurate in-game info on (at least the current) rulers of Tyria.

    Well 1298 would mean she was 12 in 1310. So it makes more sense.

    I thought that Jennah would have been 16 when she ascended the throne and not 18, however we don't have much knowledge in what age you have to be to be considered an adult.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    I thought that Jennah would have been 16 when she ascended the throne and not 18, however we don't have much knowledge in what age you have to be to be considered an adult.

    Indeed, we don't have the Tyrian - or just Krytan - age of majority.

    But since ArenaNet is mostly comprised of Americans, and Americans tend to foolishly believe the Hollywood standard of "18" as the end-all-be-all legal age ofadulthood (spoilers: it's different in every state and country! Though 18 is the most common, but it ranges from 15 to 21 across the world; I think the youngest, historically, was 14), I was working on the assumption they'd follow that, since we don't have anything actually hinting one way or the other.

    And as pointed out, using 18 rather than 16 does fit in with other dialogue, such as the aforementioned sylvari statement of Jennah being "almost 30". Being 25 instead of 27 does fit the dialogue too, but not quite as well.

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  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Jennah being illegitimate ruler doesn't means her parents weren't married.

  • @McPero.3287 said:

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Jennah being illegitimate ruler doesn't means her parents weren't married.

    Illegitimate means a child being born of parents not married to each other. Jennah still has the rights to the throne as she was the heir after her Father's, she just isn't a legitimate heir, she's a kitten heir.

    Kind of like Jon Snow, even though he is the kitten child of Rhaegon Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, he has a higher claim to the throne than Daenarys, despite Dany being a legitimate heir.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 1, 2019

    @Entrope.2307 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Jennah being illegitimate ruler doesn't means her parents weren't married.

    Illegitimate means a child being born of parents not married to each other. Jennah still has the rights to the throne as she was the heir after her Father's, she just isn't a legitimate heir, she's a kitten heir.

    Kind of like Jon Snow, even though he is the kitten child of Rhaegon Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, he has a higher claim to the throne than Daenarys, despite Dany being a legitimate heir.

    Nope illegitimate means she doesn't have the right to the Throne/there is someone that has a stronger right to it.
    Illegitimate child is a child born out of marriage, and child was never legitimised. Illegitimate children also have no right to succeeding titles from their parents (traditionally in middle ages and GoT lore). Jenna might have been illegitimate child if her father the King was planning on having a male child and died of sudden death.
    But what Estelle is probably referring to is that she is illegitimate like her father was and many of his predecessors because White Mantle recognises a different line of succession as opposed to Jenna's predecessor line. And White Mantle were rightful rulers 250 years ago and that is what Estelle is talking about. So Jennah was probably just legitimate child.

    GoT after Dumb&Dumber took over the story telling and didn't follow the books anymore became a dogpoop show that has nothing to do with logical thinking or mirroring medieval ages laws. Jon Snow can never be heir to 7 Kingdoms because he is illegitimate and cannot inherit titles. So please don't bring that up ever again.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @anninke.7469 said:
    Another question is - how old is the queen? According to the only source I've found - Tyrian royalty family tree she was born in 1290, which would make her 42 now. If it's really her age, it makes me think that the White Mantle guys should have just waited for her to lose fertility with no heir and their overtake attempt could have been far more succesful... I know we've had enough human-centerd stuff so far, but I think this should be solved one way or another. Having a childless queen in her 40's does nothing good to a kingdom's stability.

    There's a ? next to the date, indicating that it's a rough approximation, and estimated, guess.

    Based on the Queen's Jubilee, she was crowned in 1316 AE. If we assume that Tyria works with the same way as most of America with no longer being a minor, that could mark her 18th birthyear. In other words, she was born in 1928 AE if so. This would also make her 27 during the personal story, thus the sylvari line @Aaron Ansari.1604 linked would be accurate.

    And thus, during 1330 AE of Season 3, she'd have been 32.

    I would probably suggest altering the Tyrian royal family tree article to say "1925-1300" as that seems more accurate.

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Her status as heir to the throne is ambiguous, but it's an abandoned plotline. I think it was established at some point in lore that she rules Kryta not because of her status, but because she was the only one left who was suitable to do so.

    She's literally the last of her lineage, though this has been disputed as well.

    Minor clarification: There's implication of there being an heir to the throne after Jennah. Nothing questions Jennah's own rights as being the current queen (beyond, y'know, White Mantle propaganda). What this means is that Jennah has some distant relative who can trace their own lineage to an ancestor of Jennah - most likely Queen Salma or King Baede (who did have four children, after all).

    Jennah was 100% the legitimate next in line ruler after her father.

    From the Royal Tree the only other living person known to us that could be king instead of Jennah is Wade Samuelsson Duke of Ebonhawke, from Ascalonian line.

  • @McPero.3287 said:

    @Entrope.2307 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Jennah being illegitimate ruler doesn't means her parents weren't married.

    Illegitimate means a child being born of parents not married to each other. Jennah still has the rights to the throne as she was the heir after her Father's, she just isn't a legitimate heir, she's a kitten heir.

    Kind of like Jon Snow, even though he is the kitten child of Rhaegon Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, he has a higher claim to the throne than Daenarys, despite Dany being a legitimate heir.

    Nope illegitimate means she doesn't have the right to the Throne/there is someone that has a stronger right to it.
    Illegitimate child is a child born out of marriage, and child was never legitimised. Illegitimate children also have no right to succeeding titles from their parents (traditionally in middle ages and GoT lore). Jenna might have been illegitimate child if her father the King was planning on having a male child and died of sudden death.
    But what Estelle is probably referring to is that she is illegitimate like her father was and many of his predecessors because White Mantle recognises a different line of succession as opposed to Jenna's predecessor line. And White Mantle were rightful rulers 250 years ago and that is what Estelle is talking about. So Jennah was probably just legitimate child.

    Jennah could still possibly be an illegitimate heir and have the highest claim as she is the only heir to the King before her and has a claim to the Doric bloodline. We know nothing about her parents except that her father was the King so it is unknown at this point if she is legitimate or illegitimate.

    Estelle could have been referring to two things here,
    a) That the White Mantle would recognise their own line of succession and not Salma's. And indeed are the rightful rulers and those descended from Salma are illegitimate rulers.
    Or
    b) That Jennah is indeed an illegitimate ruler as Estelle is older than Jennah and would most likely, if she was a minister or noble at that time, have heard of Jennah's parentage and was using this information against Jennah.

  • @Entrope.2307 said:

    @McPero.3287 said:

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    In Head of the Snake, Estelle reveals that Jennah is in illegitimate ruler, which means her parents were never married. We have also heard no mention of her mother but her father is mentioned a small amount in the personal story.

    Jennah being illegitimate ruler doesn't means her parents weren't married.

    Illegitimate means a child being born of parents not married to each other. Jennah still has the rights to the throne as she was the heir after her Father's, she just isn't a legitimate heir, she's a kitten heir.

    Kind of like Jon Snow, even though he is the kitten child of Rhaegon Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, he has a higher claim to the throne than Daenarys, despite Dany being a legitimate heir.

    You're thinking of an illegitimate child. Not an illegitimate ruler.

    The exact definition of the word "illegitimate"

    il·le·git·i·mate
    /ˌiləˈjidəmət/
    Learn to pronounce
    adjective
    adjective: illegitimate
    not authorized by the law; not in accordance with accepted standards or rules.

    Now, technically speaking, an illegitimate ruler can be an illegitimate child as well. But it does not need to mean so. Caudecus was an illegitimate ruler, who was trying to make himself legitimate via the White Mantle.

    An illegitimate ruler can also be an usurper not accepted by the nobility, or a member of the royal family who tries to take the throne despite not being the heir (e.g., a younger brother claiming the throne while the older brother still lives).

    However, the moment an illegitimate ruler is accepted by the nobility, and in Kryta's case the Ministry, they are legitimized.

    @McPero.3287 said:
    From the Royal Tree the only other living person known to us that could be king instead of Jennah is Wade Samuelsson Duke of Ebonhawke, from Ascalonian line.

    Key words being "known to us". However, Wade doesn't have claim to the Krytan throne any more than Jennah has claim over the Orrian throne. Being descended from Doric is not enough of a claim, as that's a 1,400 years gap. Which is to say that while Jennah may be regent of Ascalon, she would never have right - outside of acceptance by Ascalonian nobility and law - to be queen of Ascalon. Same with Wade over Kryta.

    @Entrope.2307 said:
    Jennah could still possibly be an illegitimate heir and have the highest claim as she is the only heir to the King before her and has a claim to the Doric bloodline. We know nothing about her parents except that her father was the King so it is unknown at this point if she is legitimate or illegitimate.

    That's a self contradicting sentence. Heirs are, by default, legitimate. They are recognized by law as the next in line to rule the nation.

    Technically speaking, Jennah is not an heir. She's the ruler. An heir is the person who would rule after the current ruler. This is why the locket that reveals the next heir is important - because it shows who would rule should the current ruler (Jennah in this case) would die.

    Estelle could have been referring to two things here,
    a) That the White Mantle would recognise their own line of succession and not Salma's. And indeed are the rightful rulers and those descended from Salma are illegitimate rulers.
    Or
    b) That Jennah is indeed an illegitimate ruler as Estelle is older than Jennah and would most likely, if she was a minister or noble at that time, have heard of Jennah's parentage and was using this information against Jennah.

    No "could be" involved. Jennah was her father's only (known/surviving) child, and accepted by law as ruler. She is a legitimate child, even if a kitten child.

    Estelle was solely talking about the fantasy that White Mantle are the true rulers of Kryta because they happened to rule it for 11 years 250 years ago.

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  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Her status as heir to the throne is ambiguous, but it's an abandoned plotline. I think it was established at some point in lore that she rules Kryta not because of her status, but because she was the only one left who was suitable to do so.

    She's literally the last of her lineage, though this has been disputed as well.

    See https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tyrian_royalty_family_tree .

    Are you sure you're not mixing Jennah up with Salma (the queen from GW1)?

    Salma's claim to the throne wasn't well established because she was an illigitimate daughter of the king (her mother was a priestess at the Temple of the Ages), but after her father abandoned the throne and the White Mantle took over she was the closest living relative of the king who could be found, so the Shining Blade supported her claim to the throne (they were actually the ones who persuaded her to claim the throne at all, she was happy as a priestess).

    The White Mantle disputed it of course, because they were the ones being deposed, and they've objected to all of Salma's descendants (up to and including Jennah) for the same reason. But no one, including the White Mantle disputes that Jennah was next in line to the throne when her father died.

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