WARRIOR CRITS ARE BUGGED? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WARRIOR CRITS ARE BUGGED?

SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

Comments

  • What skill are you even talking about? Have you factored in anything?

    What class do you play? Sure we can make some huge damage out of it's skills too.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

    well ty for the explanation, still don't make sense, if you pick kill shot and volley they have almost the same base dmg and volley will never hit like that even if you get all the hits

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

    well ty for the explanation, still don't make sense, if you pick kill shot and volley they have almost the same base dmg and volley will never hit like that even if you get all the hits

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior's_Cunning

    2/5 hits get buffed by charge.
    1-2 hits drop you below HP treshold or take out your barriers.

    • volley will be dodge after first hit so people dont use all damaging buffs with it, and instead save them for killshot.
  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

    well ty for the explanation, still don't make sense, if you pick kill shot and volley they have almost the same base dmg and volley will never hit like that even if you get all the hits

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior's_Cunning

    2/5 hits get buffed by charge.
    1-2 hits drop you below HP treshold or take out your barriers.

    • volley will be dodge after first hit so people dont use all damaging buffs with it, and instead save them for killshot.

    well that make sense for kill shot, but what about the other's burst skills like eviscerate? a warrior hitted me for 12k on my herald with dwarf stance + weakness and traited with retribuition to tank even more

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

    well ty for the explanation, still don't make sense, if you pick kill shot and volley they have almost the same base dmg and volley will never hit like that even if you get all the hits

    It makes perfect sense just seems like you don't want to accept it. There are modifiers that warrior has that work a lot better for skills like killshot, single hit damage, than volley, multi hit attack. People will also spend more time setting up killshot. Warriors cunning is a great example of this. Nothing here is bugged, just over-tuned.

    You also need to factor in all tooltip damage is based on a target with ~2600 armour. For instance if you are hitting a scholar class with no extra toughness you are already doing around an extra 40% damage compared to what is in the tooltip.

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    how 2~3k base damage turn into 15k~60k crits? even if pick 250% crit damage it's not possible to reach that damage, it's like adreneline is doing the sum of all levels

    The damage modifiers in this game work multiplicatively instead of additively. Let me explain this:

    1. Say the damage of a skill reads as 1000.
    2. Now say that the person landing the 1000 attack has different damage modifiers coming from traits, which let's say are +25% and another +25%.
    3. People think that the two +25% add together to make a +50% resulting in an equation like 1000 + (25% + 25%) = 1500, but it does not.
    4. The way it actually works is like this: 1000 + 25% = 1250, now it adds the next +25% to 1250 +25% = 1562.5

    So in the long run, a single stand alone +25% mod is not nearly as much damage as a bunch of small mods that add up to +25%, whith the way that it multiplicatively adds this up. If you were to have +5%, +5%, +7%, +7% = 24%, that would actually create a lot more damage than a single source modifier of +25%. Now when you start adding ferocity into this, and things like 25 stacks of vulnerability, the damage begins to explode, quite literally "exponentially". Consider that 25 vuln stacks applies AFTER the normal mods apply. So after the already broken exponential wind up of the normal damage mods, THEN 25 vuln amplifies it by another 25% in another grand exponential manner. This is why glass cannon specs hit so hard in GW2.

    When you're talking Warrior specifically, that class can front twice as much ferocity as any other class and nearly permanent 25 might. That's why Warrior Rifle can hit absurd numbers. But rest assured, if a Warrior Rifle hits you for 60k, his build sucks. Just auto attack him a couple times, he'll get downed easily. Also, you were probably in Eternal Coliseum getting hit by a Warrior with a Sword Artifact buff, if he was hitting 60k on you.

    well ty for the explanation, still don't make sense, if you pick kill shot and volley they have almost the same base dmg and volley will never hit like that even if you get all the hits

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_(warrior_skill)
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior's_Cunning

    2/5 hits get buffed by charge.
    1-2 hits drop you below HP treshold or take out your barriers.

    • volley will be dodge after first hit so people dont use all damaging buffs with it, and instead save them for killshot.

    well that make sense for kill shot, but what about the other's burst skills like eviscerate? a warrior hitted me for 12k on my herald with dwarf stance + weakness and traited with retribuition to tank even more

    If a warrior chooses to, they can make any burst hit really hard at the expense of other things. The Arms trait line will heavily boost any burst, signet stacking for massive ferocity boosts, FGS for instant full might stacks, etc
    It's more common on killshot builds though, as the range gives you the added protection you need from such a glass cannon style build.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526

    Wait for when/if you are able to play into rating margins where you're against Team USA members just about every game you queue. You'll forget all about how OP Rifle Warrior is or a Rune of Speed. Then you'll see all the completely busted exploitable stuff that the older players are concerned with and why.

    I guarantee you my dude, you have yet to experience the things that are truly busted. A good example is how out of all of the things you've been complaining about and/or questioning, you have somehow managed to not even once bring up: Holosmith, Condi Mirage, Herald or Firebrand lol. <- At higher levels of play, you'll be easily outplaying all Rifle Warriors or anything wearing a Rune of Speed. You'll see that those really are not effecting the true potential maximum performance of build structures much at all. You'll see that the real power imbalance lies almost entirely within overpowered traits/utilities and class kit designs.

    But as far the Warrior Rifle explanation goes, let me really just show you what you're getting hit by when a Killshot lands:

    So we're looking at: Kill Shot + 10% + 21% + 7% + 1% for every boon on you + 3% for every boon on the target + 25% + 25% or 50% WC + 7% + 7% + 15% + 120 power + Pinnacle of Strength making each might stack +40 power instead of 30 + 25 Might stacks + 350 feroc upon existing amulet feroc = 30k+ Killshot. And keep in mind that the damage shown ON the tooltip, is only showing you a normal hit's worth of damage. That number only adjusts with misc might stacks or traits that add + power. That tooltip number does not reflect all of the random % modifiers in this equation, or the enormous over abundant amount of ferocity that is tripling or more, the number shown to you in the tooltip before the % mods even apply.

    Regardless, it's a terrible build for competitive play. For all the damage he could deal to you, you could also kill him in 1-2 shots with even mediocre damage output, and his ultra burst is kind of a "I get to gimmick it and down 1 player per fight I engaged before I'm targeted and go back on respawn."

    Just make sure you get on the Warrior and attack it before it attacks your team fight. If you do this, you'll see why the build just isn't viable at all.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    sure now tell us why only warriors can do that? spellbreakers and zerks cant

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    sure now tell us why only warriors can do that? spellbreakers and zerks cant

    Because the Spellbreaker specialization isn't designed around large clutch damage mods to land a single large strike, and running Spellbreaker traits correctly for it's purpose & reason requires the use of Dagger/Shield so no Warhorn buff, it can't use Tactics line, and it has to have a GS for mobility. Spellbreaker Rifle builds just do not work well for these reasons.

    Berserker SHOULD be theoretically landing more damage than a Core Warrior, but after they patched Berserker so that it only gets Berserker burst skills now, that means Killshot goes away, and only Gunflame is available. Gunflame deals a lot less physical damage than Killshot. That's why Berserker isn't running Rifle. Also, even if the Berserker wanted to make Gunflame work, he can't take Strength/Tactics/Berserker because then he has no Discipline ADR management. If he tries to take Disc/Berserker, then he has to ditch Strength or Tactics. Either way, he is forced to ditch something detrimental to a Rifle build.

    Core War is the only one who can get away with the 3 trait lines that are essential to Rifle play: Strength/Tactics/Disc. This is also a reason why Spellbreaker can't run effective Rifle damage builds.

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 30, 2019

    I wouldnt say that there crits crit for to much. Id say they have to many skills that crit for an absorbent amount. Bullcharge a dash leap combo cc move that sets up a burst does 6k+ to any light class, rush a gap closer does 5k+ to any light class, wirlwind a gap closer and a evade frame skill 5k+ on light classes. Axe 1 auto chain crits for 5k+, axe 3 cripple throw does 5k+. The problem to me is that all light armor classes also all have low as hell hp making the hard hitting warrior skills kill in 2 hits.

    Imo warrior has to many hard hitting skills for a class that has the highest defense and one of the highest hp values in game.

  • @Eddbopkins.2630 said:
    I wouldnt say that there crits crit for to much. Id say they have to many skills that crit for an absorbent amount. Bullcharge a dash leap combo cc move that sets up a burst does 6k+ to any light class, rush a gap closer does 5k+ to any light class, wirlwind a gap closer and a evade frame skill 5k+ on light classes. Axe 1 auto chain crits for 5k+, axe 3 cripple throw does 5k+. The problem to me is that all light armor classes also all have low as hell hp making the hard hitting warrior skills kill in 2 hits.

    Imo warrior has to many hard hitting skills for a class that has the highest defense and one of the highest hp values in game.

    Ill have you know that gs3 can land 11k hit on light classes without prot, same with dash.
    Bullcharge walks into 8-9k area, axe depends on HP but seen 8-10k hits on it.
    Its all the kitten % dmg bonuses and bonus stats that warrior gets, perma 25 might that gives 40 power is 1000 power.
    Make any berk build in PvP and start hitting golems for 5min, use food ( 200-300stats ) and nowyou will suddenly start nuking golems from orbit due to that extra 200-300.