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Flandre.2870

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Holo hasn't been doing so hot in ATs for a while now it seems. It's just still probably the marginally best spec to solo carry ranked queue, so, not surprised to kiss it goodbye.

Maybe in the future we'll see Engineer up to Rev/FB's competitive level, or more nerfs to the current competitive classes to follow. We are expecting a major balance patch down the pipeline after this.

This patch is going to fix the broken function gyro for starters. Seems like most classes got serious buffs to their res utilities but I'm just happy with fixing the game breaking bugs where Function Gyro always instantly died.

Edit: in this Dec 3rd patch we'll see some functionality added to utility goggles. Depending how long the resistance is, it may exist in a meta build variant I could put together using boon duration.

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Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

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@bravan.3876 said:Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

Im curious, would you rather have rev lose some of its evade/blocks or some of it sustain throught various healing ?I think rev due to its class mechanic should be easy to balance, if its too strong you can increase the costs by a slight margin and see how it goes.

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So say we nerf harald burst which is its thing what kind of class would it be? Nerf its evade frames? Is it a tanky class cuz seems pretty glass for a heavy armor class. Does it have large amount of defence outside of evade frames like block, invisibility, invulnerability, blinks and tele's that can be used reliably for disengagrment when pressured?I'm just trying to imagine a rev whither less evades having all things equal as they are now trying to servive lol or if we made its burst not as threatning how effective I'd be.U say u dont want stacking but in a team pvp there will always be stacking of toons that compliment each other or that are more effective than others. In a perfectly world if all classes were balanced equal which unless their all the exact same is not possible the players will always stack the most effective instead of what they actually prefer to play, at least a lot do.I dunno wasn't fb/scourge a issue in the past now isn't it 2xfb/rev? Are revs as effective without the super support/buffs fb gives it if so change it but if not maybe fb is the issue. I only ask as I haven't played a lot of rev but compared to most of the classes I've I'm played it's one of the hardest to learn and do well on especially since survival depends almost entirely on properly timing evade and chaining them at right time with the rest depending on skills like ward rift etc. I don't really care what they do to rev in the end but I think I'd be pretty easy to see it getting slight shaves to point of it being least picked as it was few yrs back, don't really want that for any class.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So say we nerf harald burst which is its thing what kind of class would it be? Nerf its evade frames? Is it a tanky class cuz seems pretty glass for a heavy armor class. Does it have large amount of defence outside of evade frames like block, invisibility, invulnerability, blinks and tele's that can be used reliably for disengagrment when pressured?I'm just trying to imagine a rev whither less evades having all things equal as they are now trying to servive lol or if we made its burst not as threatning how effective I'd be.U say u dont want stacking but in a team pvp there will always be stacking of toons that compliment each other or that are more effective than others. In a perfectly world if all classes were balanced equal which unless their all the exact same is not possible the players will always stack the most effective instead of what they actually prefer to play, at least a lot do.I dunno wasn't fb/scourge a issue in the past now isn't it 2xfb/rev? Are revs as effective without the super support/buffs fb gives it if so change it but if not maybe fb is the issue. I only ask as I haven't played a lot of rev but compared to most of the classes I've I'm played it's one of the hardest to learn and do well on especially since survival depends almost entirely on properly timing evade and chaining them at right time with the rest depending on skills like ward rift etc. I don't really care what they do to rev in the end but I think I'd be pretty easy to see it getting slight shaves to point of it being least picked as it was few yrs back, don't really want that for any class.

Revs have very strong single target burst, strong AoE damage, good sustain, very strong mobility and high active defenses (all on low cooldowns).

The only things that kept them in check were condi mirages and scourges. The former is still viable, wins monthlies, and sees play, but the latter doesn't.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

Im curious, would you rather have rev lose some of its evade/blocks or some of it sustain throught various healing ?I think rev due to its class mechanic should be easy to balance, if its too strong you can increase the costs by a slight margin and see how it goes.

Talking about meta Shiro Powerrev? It doesn't have too much healing and the one good heal can be countered very well (at least in high ranks where you have a chance to have 4 teammates stop attacking the Rev into his heal and don't heal him to 100% hp). Rev has a little bit too many active defensive tools, that is not as bad as passive facetank sustain but when the amount is too high that it can be spammed like Rev can, than it is too much. I would go for evade frames. The amount of stunbreaks is also very high but because Rev doesn't have any other things like invuln or disengage mobility i think that is bearable.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

Im curious, would you rather have rev lose some of its evade/blocks or some of it sustain throught various healing ?I think rev due to its class mechanic should be easy to balance, if its too strong you can increase the costs by a slight margin and see how it goes.

Imo make staff 5 not an evade.

Rev just has too many sources of damage avoidance for a good player to reliably find windows to deal damage.

Sword 3Sword 5(on another target)Staff 3Staff 5Shiro leap (on another target)Phase retreatGlint heal

Among things such as stunbreak on legend swap, various blinds and speed boosters.

Ele, thief, and mesmer all share this same problem.

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Yes those professions also need nerf. They are less flashy in solo queue than holo but also are strong. I just do not know what should be nerfed on them. I think the problem is that their design gives them an advantage that people do not always realize (like shorter cds, more spells/adaptability, burst) because they are classified as "harder to play". But as soon as you see some of them played better or just stacked (even with average players) the effect is… wow , ridiculous :skull:

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:So say we nerf harald burst which is its thing what kind of class would it be? Nerf its evade frames? Is it a tanky class cuz seems pretty glass for a heavy armor class. Does it have large amount of defence outside of evade frames like block, invisibility, invulnerability, blinks and tele's that can be used reliably for disengagrment when pressured?I'm just trying to imagine a rev whither less evades having all things equal as they are now trying to servive lol or if we made its burst not as threatning how effective I'd be.U say u dont want stacking but in a team pvp there will always be stacking of toons that compliment each other or that are more effective than others. In a perfectly world if all classes were balanced equal which unless their all the exact same is not possible the players will always stack the most effective instead of what they actually prefer to play, at least a lot do.I dunno wasn't fb/scourge a issue in the past now isn't it 2xfb/rev? Are revs as effective without the super support/buffs fb gives it if so change it but if not maybe fb is the issue. I only ask as I haven't played a lot of rev but compared to most of the classes I've I'm played it's one of the hardest to learn and do well on especially since survival depends almost entirely on properly timing evade and chaining them at right time with the rest depending on skills like ward rift etc. I don't really care what they do to rev in the end but I think I'd be pretty easy to see it getting slight shaves to point of it being least picked as it was few yrs back, don't really want that for any class.

Revs have very strong single target burst, strong AoE damage, good sustain, very strong mobility and high active defenses (all on low cooldowns).

The only things that kept them in check were condi mirages and scourges. The former is still viable, wins monthlies, and sees play, but the latter doesn't.

They have great engage mobility but defenitly not great disengage abilities compared a lot if classes that's for sure so I'd say the have great burst, good sustain,good over all mobility and the good sustain part is because of the active defenses no?

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@Ryan.9387 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

Im curious, would you rather have rev lose some of its evade/blocks or some of it sustain throught various healing ?I think rev due to its class mechanic should be easy to balance, if its too strong you can increase the costs by a slight margin and see how it goes.

Imo make staff 5 not an evade.

Rev just has too many sources of damage avoidance for a good player to reliably find windows to deal damage.

Sword 3Sword 5(on another target)Staff 3Staff 5Shiro leap (on another target)Phase retreatGlint heal

Among things such as stunbreak on legend swap, various blinds and speed boosters.

Ele, thief, and mesmer all share this same problem.

I agree it has high evade up time but the way u have to time those skills this give the evade frames is far more skillful than what's needed to servive on a holosmith, any warrior,scourge,scrapper,soul beast and most certainly guard/fb builds etc at least in my eyes. I've picked up most those classes and most times never felt lacking passive sustain or defensive skills but playing revs like u gotta use the skills at the right times for those evade frames or ur dead cuz its sustain nor defensive skills definitely don't feel on the lv of their heavy armor wearing buds lol. Even the heal is great IF timed well but crap if u use it at wrong time. Slippery slop cuz how rev is could easily fall to useless if their not careful.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Better just hurry up with Ele nerfs and take away some dodge frames from Rev, the dmg output is not even the problem, Rev should have good dmg but the ability of chaining tons of evades some even include stunbreaks + other def skills is just too high and makes the Rev barely punishable for going too deep. Fb is an issue but i don't think it will be as big of an issue by its own as Eles on side node will be after patch.

Im curious, would you rather have rev lose some of its evade/blocks or some of it sustain throught various healing ?I think rev due to its class mechanic should be easy to balance, if its too strong you can increase the costs by a slight margin and see how it goes.

Imo make staff 5 not an evade.

Rev just has too many sources of damage avoidance for a good player to reliably find windows to deal damage.

Sword 3Sword 5(on another target)Staff 3Staff 5Shiro leap (on another target)Phase retreatGlint heal

Among things such as stunbreak on legend swap, various blinds and speed boosters.

Ele, thief, and mesmer all share this same problem.

I agree it has high evade up time but the way u have to time those skills this give the evade frames is far more skillful than what's needed to servive on a holosmith, any warrior,scourge,scrapper,soul beast and most certainly guard/fb builds etc at least in my eyes. I've picked up most those classes and most times never felt lacking passive sustain or defensive skills but playing revs like u gotta use the skills at the right times for those evade frames or ur dead cuz its sustain nor defensive skills definitely don't feel on the lv of their heavy armor wearing buds lol. Even the heal is great IF timed well but kitten if u use it at wrong time. Slippery slop cuz how rev is could easily fall to useless if their not careful.

Lucky for rev players their class mechanics will let them be nerfed in small ways, yes ?

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