@cmc please halt the holo nerfs and don't go throught them until you nerf rev - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

@cmc please halt the holo nerfs and don't go throught them until you nerf rev

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  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    AT balance is not everything. Rev and FB, while dominate AT, outside of it, are just.. okay. Holo is better than rev in any none organized context, even after the nerf.

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @azzardome.9184 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @cmc

    Don't forget about Lock On

    1. Two procs on the same trait that do NOT share the same cooldown
    2. 12 seconds of reveal
    3. 14 seconds of fury
    4. 20 stacks of vulnerability
    5. 25 second cooldown

    Don't forget about Overcharged Shot

    1. No cast time
    2. Instant 450 range launch (long duration, hard CC) in melee range

    Ty

    nerfing rifle. sure buddy. compare the weapons on engi to any other class before you make that suggestion again.

    Sure buddy.

    In melee range:

    Overcharged Shot - 450 range knockback,14s cooldown, no cast time

    Point Blank Shot - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Illusionary Wave - 450 range knockback, 30s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Rifle Butt - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/4s cast time
    Staggering Blow - 180 range knockback, 18s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Counterattack Kick - 130 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 3/4s cast time

    etc. etc.

    Overcharged Shot is the only knockback (a hard cc) that doesn't have an animation.

    lmfao, no cast time that some pepega kitten right there. The skills skill needs to travel to its target ontop of landing. The skills state 1200 range. Your lucky if you can hit anything if the range is over 600, the skill will hit 1/5 of the time at best at beyond that disctance. Much like axe 3 on warrior work. The skill pretty much needs to be used in melee range and it cc the engi itself. How on earth do you justify a nerfing something like that?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Holo needs further nerfing still!

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    It's an instant cast hard cc in melee range. It can also cc people from range as well.

    But, the INSTANT CAST HARD CC is the important thing that you people are trying to draw attention away from.

    As Chaith pointed out, it's not actually instant cast. I've had it interrupted many times, and can't cast it when cc'd. For some reason the tooltip doesn't display its actual casting time. It also doesn't have a visual windup like other CC skills -- and it would be fair to add one.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • mortrialus.3062mortrialus.3062 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    It's an instant cast hard cc in melee range. It can also cc people from range as well.

    But, the INSTANT CAST HARD CC is the important thing that you people are trying to draw attention away from.

    As Chaith pointed out, it's not actually instant cast. I've had it interrupted many times, and can't cast it when cc'd. For some reason the tooltip doesn't display its actual casting time. It also doesn't have a visual windup like other CC skills -- and it would be fair to add one.

    This thread would be like 5 posts in total if engineers just came out and admitted this.

    Best Dressed Memser NA.

  • @azzardome.9184 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @azzardome.9184 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @cmc

    Don't forget about Lock On

    1. Two procs on the same trait that do NOT share the same cooldown
    2. 12 seconds of reveal
    3. 14 seconds of fury
    4. 20 stacks of vulnerability
    5. 25 second cooldown

    Don't forget about Overcharged Shot

    1. No cast time
    2. Instant 450 range launch (long duration, hard CC) in melee range

    Ty

    nerfing rifle. sure buddy. compare the weapons on engi to any other class before you make that suggestion again.

    Sure buddy.

    In melee range:

    Overcharged Shot - 450 range knockback,14s cooldown, no cast time

    Point Blank Shot - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Illusionary Wave - 450 range knockback, 30s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Rifle Butt - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/4s cast time
    Staggering Blow - 180 range knockback, 18s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Counterattack Kick - 130 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 3/4s cast time

    etc. etc.

    Overcharged Shot is the only knockback (a hard cc) that doesn't have an animation.

    lmfao, no cast time that some pepega kitten right there. The skills skill needs to travel to its target ontop of landing. The skills state 1200 range. Your lucky if you can hit anything if the range is over 600, the skill will hit 1/5 of the time at best at beyond that disctance. Much like axe 3 on warrior work. The skill pretty much needs to be used in melee range and it cc the engi itself. How on earth do you justify a nerfing something like that?

    You Just Stated the fact that you dont need to be 'able' to dodge a cc in closed range

    That's actually pretty funny

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @azzardome.9184 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @azzardome.9184 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @cmc

    Don't forget about Lock On

    1. Two procs on the same trait that do NOT share the same cooldown
    2. 12 seconds of reveal
    3. 14 seconds of fury
    4. 20 stacks of vulnerability
    5. 25 second cooldown

    Don't forget about Overcharged Shot

    1. No cast time
    2. Instant 450 range launch (long duration, hard CC) in melee range

    Ty

    nerfing rifle. sure buddy. compare the weapons on engi to any other class before you make that suggestion again.

    Sure buddy.

    In melee range:

    Overcharged Shot - 450 range knockback,14s cooldown, no cast time

    Point Blank Shot - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Illusionary Wave - 450 range knockback, 30s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Rifle Butt - 600 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 1/4s cast time
    Staggering Blow - 180 range knockback, 18s cooldown, 1/2s cast time
    Counterattack Kick - 130 range knockback, 15s cooldown, 3/4s cast time

    etc. etc.

    Overcharged Shot is the only knockback (a hard cc) that doesn't have an animation.

    lmfao, no cast time that some pepega kitten right there. The skills skill needs to travel to its target ontop of landing. The skills state 1200 range. Your lucky if you can hit anything if the range is over 600, the skill will hit 1/5 of the time at best at beyond that disctance. Much like axe 3 on warrior work. The skill pretty much needs to be used in melee range and it cc the engi itself. How on earth do you justify a nerfing something like that?

    Because you don't always use Overcharged Shot from max range. Most fights with a holo will take place on a side node if he's playing his role properly. In other words, Mr. Smarty Pants, it's an instant, long duration, hard CC that is impossible to dodge reactively (if you cannot dodge a mantra charge, you cannot dodge Overcharged Shot in melee range). That's pretty good justification.

    If Point Blank Shot didn't have a cast time I'd argue the same thing.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    It's an instant cast hard cc in melee range. It can also cc people from range as well.

    But, the INSTANT CAST HARD CC is the important thing that you people are trying to draw attention away from.

    As Chaith pointed out, it's not actually instant cast. I've had it interrupted many times, and can't cast it when cc'd. For some reason the tooltip doesn't display its actual casting time. It also doesn't have a visual windup like other CC skills -- and it would be fair to add one.

    This thread would be like 5 posts in total if engineers just came out and admitted this.

    That's literally all people are asking for. I just want a 1/2 second windup animation so I have something I can look out for to dodge before getting instantly launched with no-tells when fighting a holo on point. A change like that is very reasonable and definitely isn't as drastic a "nerf" as all of these engi mains are making it seem.

    Also, Lock On is still stupidly strong and needs to get nerfed.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This skill not having a cast time given its nature must have been a over sight by anet , atleast one would think and if not can't really be surprising given how loaded the spec ended up. Maybe someone in the balance team has a hard on for holo or somthing but it almost comical how overloaded the spec is. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the classes eat hard nerfs during their depowercreep attempts but leave holo largely unchanged save for a few trivial nerfs lol.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    good thing is there is not much what you can nerf on meta rev build...Might last 5 sec at best, weapon coeficients are one of the lowest and the big one are only on solotarget...

    Jokaurene

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    good thing is there is not much what you can nerf on meta rev build...Might last 5 sec at best, weapon coeficients are one of the lowest and the big one are only on solotarget...

    you can start with evade uptimes or damage modifiers like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vicious_Lacerations
    being 9% damage, permanent bonus, outshadowing any damage modifier on any class while being adept.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    you cannot attack while evading and you use all your resources on dodging...if rev is dodging you dont die...:)

    Jokaurene

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    OP would be correct if the 5 man crowd wasn't so small right now. It makes perfect sense for cmc to have the balance focused on solo Q ranked first before addressing things that are only strong in an organized team built around it.

    Like with Holo. Yes, Revs are slightly better as the DPS than Holo in the standard "Firebrand Duo cheese comp" due almost entirely to having ports for faster rotations. However, in solo Q most people consider Holo stronger than Rev due to better versatility and just "having it all". It's also much harder to nerf builds that are only broken in a specific comp without rendering the class unviable. So a larger balance patch would be needed to make sure each class still has a playable build.

    Since I play Rev I'll mention yet again that the problem with the class is really down to three things:
    A ) Its ability to stack damage mods, mainly from Herald, are way too high. Herald alone gives about +35% in raw damage bonus. This is the highest amount of free damage than any other elite spec in the game.
    B ) Rev is easily countered by condis. This is a bad weakness to have because it goes away as soon as you have support and we are currently in a meta that has some of the best supports GW2 has ever seen. This puts Revs in a very awkward spot where the class is busted with support and easily countered without support.
    C ) Because most Rev nerfs usually touch weapon skills and core traits instead of shaving down Heralds insane damage bonuses, all builds except the Glint/Shiro meta are either considered trash or meme tier. Renegade remains the single spec in the game that has never had a viable build.

    The obvious solution here seems to be shaving down Herald damage so it isn't so oppressive in 5 man, and then improving condi clear so the class doesn't become trash in solo. Any other fix either nerfs the wrong thing or doesn't address the difference between how the class is played in an organized team and how it is played in ranked.

  • Neil.3825Neil.3825 Member ✭✭

    Yes, nerf Herald because we all know Glint/Jalis is so broken. And don't forget to compensate Shiro please. /s

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭

    they could nerf smokescale and thief in combat mobility as well

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    you cannot attack while evading and you use all your resources on dodging...if rev is dodging you dont die...:)

    unless he uses sword 3 or glint heal, then he takes no damage while dishing out tons.
    also, exceptional offence is the best defence.
    Enemies cant attack you if it means they are going to be hit by a tactical nuke before they get to do that.
    Add tempo swing ability like that staff dash and here you go, you can juggle between offence and defence similar to how soulbeast does it.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    Tons of dmg by sword 3? 😂 where you live..im telling you they cannot nerf it more it got hit by truck..holos finaly have to thing while playing and salt everywhere

    Jokaurene

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    Tons of dmg by sword 3? 😂 where you live..im telling you they cannot nerf it more it got hit by truck..holos finaly have to thing while playing and salt everywhere

    6k+ while evading and generating might is considered tons by me, I have not asked for any damage nerfs to rev, dont put words into my mouth please.
    if you land all hits it deals more dmg then bulls charge for example.

  • Catchyfx.5768Catchyfx.5768 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Catchyfx.5768 said:
    Tons of dmg by sword 3? 😂 where you live..im telling you they cannot nerf it more it got hit by truck..holos finaly have to thing while playing and salt everywhere

    6k+ while evading and generating might is considered tons by me, I have not asked for any damage nerfs to rev, dont put words into my mouth please.
    if you land all hits it deals more dmg then bulls charge for example.

    If you land all hits during

    Jokaurene