Should NPCs be buffed? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Should NPCs be buffed?

witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 2, 2019 in WvW

I'm not asking for Anet to add raidbosses or increase PvE drastically in WvW.

It's just that sentries, camps, lords etc have barely been touched since the release of the game and thus couldn't keep up with powercreep whatsoever. On deadeye for example I can solo a sentry in roughly 3 seconds.

For comparison Anet has buffed NPCs on sPvP maps such as Foefire because the guild lord (a potentially gamewinning objective) was getting soloed in a matter of seconds after all the powercreep. WvW NPCs exist for a reason, but they've become a joke.

So what do you think? Yay or nay? Why or why not?

Comments

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Their AI could be updated so they're less of the core Tyria and more of the PoF experience. They have ranged attacks, but if you stand on a rock they suddenly forget how to defend their assigned objective etc.

    Bite me.

  • Gorani.7205Gorani.7205 Member ✭✭✭

    NPCs are OK, like they are now. They should change Righteous Indignation though, because in the early days it was really dangerous to be attacked by a "structure boss" with RI. These days, some classes can just shrug off the damage idling next to a NPC with RI. Perhaps add boon strip or boon corrupt to the RI attacks?

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    I feel like Supply Camps NPCs are okay, these are objectives meant to be solo'ed or duo'ed by roamers.

    The problem is that fort NPCs (Towers, Keeps, etc.) are incredibly weak for their assigned role. They are no threat to an attacking party and pretty much everyone ignores them, and even the lords die in about 15-30seconds to a small party.

    And even the SMC Lord is incredibly weak considering its the center of WvW. Sure, it'll take a long time to take it down but its also no threat to any zerg and it essentially just exists to give the enemy more time to rally their forces and defend, and that's not how it should be, because they still fail to defend since the Lord isn't really doing anything to the enemy zerg to give the defending side an advantage.

    Needing less PvE in WvW doesn't mean needing ignorable PvE. And threatening NPCs are better than ultra walls..

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

  • plenty ppl soloin every lord in wvw tbh... just hope no defenders come.. which is ez enough on dbl... coz half the pop h8 it, inc me.

  • @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Ñecromancy [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend

  • yes it is time consuming..that vid is also sped up.... mayb took 6-8 mins in total..i dont recall tbh.. its alot easier to solo stuff on red bl tho due to the fact half of wvw pop simply avoid it.

    i dont play anymore btw, but check here most days to see if any news on alliances..or anythin else that might make wvw intresting enough to return to...... i dont have any hope anymore :(

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2, 2019

    They lack mechanics like any boss in this game.... wich ends on health sponges just to take time killing them....

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Scaling would help. I think it would be nice if each lord and camp supervisor had at least one AOE instant down attack so they are actually enough of a threat you need to pay attention to them.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Lottie.5370Lottie.5370 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd just like it if they buffed the lords in Alpine borders to feel like the ones in the Desert borderland. They're still easy enough to kill, but offer some help in defending if you're low numbers on both sides.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    Remove all npcs wvw should be about fighting players not yet another pve map, if you want to keep that objective then defend it

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    Remove all npcs wvw should be about fighting players not yet another pve map, if you want to keep that objective then defend it

    So I should be able to hide inside Stonemist as a permastealth deadeye and when everyone's gone i just solocap the castle by standing inside the circle? That's going to make WvW better how exactly?

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    They are fine as they are and it gives people something to do when there is nothing much going on - which is more and more of the time these days.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    Remove all npcs wvw should be about fighting players not yet another pve map, if you want to keep that objective then defend it

    You express a concern regarding PvE content in WvW, but your suggestion would make the mode far too much akin to PvP. Surely if you just want to fight players, PvP is the place to go.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.

  • Kitta.3657Kitta.3657 Member ✭✭✭

    the fattest no i can give you

  • yes. especially keep lords. tower lords maybe only a bit. camp supervisers not. i'd say a keep lord should be at least be as strong, if not a bit stronger, than the current strike missions, and i'm not sure if that is the case. a tower lord should be able to deal with 4-5 people groups in most cases. camps are fine to be soloable.

    oh, and stonemist lord could be able to deal with 15 people. that castle is meant to be something special, it fact mainly has the speciality to have its wall open like a cheese from switzerland at present though.

    i'd like the general environment to be way stronger in wvw.
    the whole area was designed and released so long ago, and by then ascended gear for us wasn't common or didn't even exist (new/er player here) and the overall mobs should be less and more dangerous. the mists are meant to be a dangerous place, as in current Wvw the real danger are solely snipe-class glassy build roamers or marauding blobs.
    i'd love several elite mobs with a variety of builds and skills around the maps. that would bring more / a new kind of dynamic into the game. that to be said, this isn't a need. but don't remove them fully, that would make the maps feel too dead. (my idea would be cutting 2/3 of the weak mobs that i can kill naked solo, and pack some on there that are a challenge and threaten about 5 players )

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    Remove all npcs wvw should be about fighting players not yet another pve map, if you want to keep that objective then defend it

    So I should be able to hide inside Stonemist as a permastealth deadeye and when everyone's gone i just solocap the castle by standing inside the circle? That's going to make WvW better how exactly?

    solid point. this exactly is a big problem, that we even have yet. stealthers should be somehow detected lets say the first 5-10 minutes automatically after a keep flips. these places are too big to keep each corner in view. removing ALL npcs is surely the wrong way - as other stated, WvW is NOT pure pvp, and should not be made to that.

    to entertain people, there could be just "events" happen on the maps too. like some elite npc invasion that randomly triggers let's say once a day and can cap stuff? that's a very spontanous idea here, but would be fun i think. make Wvw the PvPvE it could be.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    Remove all npcs wvw should be about fighting players not yet another pve map, if you want to keep that objective then defend it

    So I should be able to hide inside Stonemist as a permastealth deadeye and when everyone's gone i just solocap the castle by standing inside the circle? That's going to make WvW better how exactly?

    No npc would be valid if game worked differently, the is made actually needs npc.
    A no npc would work if keep weren’t meaningless to the game besides ppt and ktrain farms.

  • no NPC is as said invalid for Wvw. would be just pvp with huge teams then. npcs do yet keep players from taking stuff - i often catched enemy paper chars who took pre-dmg from camp npcs and got easy kills from that. i don't get why we would exclude the NPCs from wvw, they are not much more than practice dummys anyways for players that know what they're doing.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    there should be a standard time to kill an npc. and by ratio increase based on numbers of attackers. :) that's it.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    They should add some of those random abilities that bounties have every time a Champion Lord respawns. B)

    Exploit people's good will and optimism.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I seem to have the opposite opinion of most ppl so far. I'd say the keep and tower lords are mostly fine -- other than buffing desert garri and maybe nerfing desert net a tad -- but camp npcs need a buff. It's just a camp so if players don't come to defend it ofc it should flip, but the npcs should give players the opportunity to come defend it. As it is now the x doesn't usually pop until after all the npcs are dead and the circle is up. Anet wouldn't have to make the npcs stronger to fix that, they could just make the x pop as soon as the camp is contested instead of on a thirty second delay. Either way, I think a change would benefit the mode, but it's not real high on my list of priorities . . .

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I seem to have the opposite opinion of most ppl so far. I'd say the keep and tower lords are mostly fine -- other than buffing desert garri and maybe nerfing desert net a tad -- but camp npcs need a buff. It's just a camp so if players don't come to defend it ofc it should flip, but the npcs should give players the opportunity to come defend it. As it is now the x doesn't usually pop until after all the npcs are dead and the circle is up. Anet wouldn't have to make the npcs stronger to fix that, they could just make the x pop as soon as the camp is contested instead of on a thirty second delay. Either way, I think a change would benefit the mode, but it's not real high on my list of priorities . . .

    Removing the contested delay for camps is all that needs to happen, I think.

    DBL lords seem appropriately strong--towers can be soloed if you're strong and Keeps if you're a legend. Their damage is useless in a blob fight, but scaling damage is probably a bad idea. ABL lords are potatoes and should be updated--same for EBG.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sviel.7493 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I seem to have the opposite opinion of most ppl so far. I'd say the keep and tower lords are mostly fine -- other than buffing desert garri and maybe nerfing desert net a tad -- but camp npcs need a buff. It's just a camp so if players don't come to defend it ofc it should flip, but the npcs should give players the opportunity to come defend it. As it is now the x doesn't usually pop until after all the npcs are dead and the circle is up. Anet wouldn't have to make the npcs stronger to fix that, they could just make the x pop as soon as the camp is contested instead of on a thirty second delay. Either way, I think a change would benefit the mode, but it's not real high on my list of priorities . . .

    Removing the contested delay for camps is all that needs to happen, I think.

    DBL lords seem appropriately strong--towers can be soloed if you're strong and Keeps if you're a legend.

    or garri if you can press 1 . . .

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sviel.7493 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I seem to have the opposite opinion of most ppl so far. I'd say the keep and tower lords are mostly fine -- other than buffing desert garri and maybe nerfing desert net a tad -- but camp npcs need a buff. It's just a camp so if players don't come to defend it ofc it should flip, but the npcs should give players the opportunity to come defend it. As it is now the x doesn't usually pop until after all the npcs are dead and the circle is up. Anet wouldn't have to make the npcs stronger to fix that, they could just make the x pop as soon as the camp is contested instead of on a thirty second delay. Either way, I think a change would benefit the mode, but it's not real high on my list of priorities . . .

    Removing the contested delay for camps is all that needs to happen, I think.

    DBL lords seem appropriately strong--towers can be soloed if you're strong and Keeps if you're a legend.

    or garri if you can press 1 . . .

    Ugh, don't remind me...

    I rarely fight that guy because I play defense, but you're right...he's just a fancy potato with gimmicks that make it harder to take out attackers.

  • Opal.9324Opal.9324 Member ✭✭✭

    Nah. People should need to defend stuff if they want to keep it, not just let the NPCs do all the work.

  • buffing the weak lords and towerwatchers would just minimize sheer steals of keeps and towers. that is so far from "let npcs do all the work", because they as for now rarely do any work at all. against unexperienced players they may get a kill or two, but only if theres no healer nearby. with three healers and no defenders, a potato group of 10 people easily kills any alpineBL keep lord and likley also still the desert ones. they are more useful but u cannot defend those with 3 against 10 in most cases.
    (in one case it worked with 3 against 15 at air keep, but that was a total exception and we got them by surprise - they just came back with 20 and it was pointless then)

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

    A lord is pve... One that interfereces with the wvw player vs player combat.

    A small group, like 1-10 ppl should have difficulties taking it WHEN 1-10 ppl defend it.
    Big groups, like 50 man fullblobs shouldnt be phased by the lord, especially, when fighting another 50 man zerg, that has shorter ways to come back

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

    A lord is pve... One that interfereces with the wvw player vs player combat.

    A small group, like 1-10 ppl should have difficulties taking it WHEN 1-10 ppl defend it.

    Big groups, like 50 man fullblobs shouldnt be phased by the lord, especially, when fighting another 50 man zerg, that has shorter ways to come back

    Hmmm? That sounds rather wierd...kinda contradicting to the nature of the beast, smallscale allready demands more tactical insight at a certain point then largescale. Especially if you relying more on the 'single' mind instead of the singular

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    Kind of weird that people seem to want WvW to just become another PvP with "more OP builds". I dislike PvE in WvW from the point of view of siege, walls and doors, but as for guards and lords its barely existent. I'd say even eliminate doors and just let NPCs defend, but ArenaNet would never do that because then all of their precious siege they've built WvW to depend on would no longer have a purpose.

    I'd much rather spend my time hitting a semi-intelligent guard than an immobile structure piece.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

    A lord is pve... One that interfereces with the wvw player vs player combat.

    A small group, like 1-10 ppl should have difficulties taking it WHEN 1-10 ppl defend it.

    Big groups, like 50 man fullblobs shouldnt be phased by the lord, especially, when fighting another 50 man zerg, that has shorter ways to come back

    Hmmm? That sounds rather wierd...kinda contradicting to the nature of the beast, smallscale allready demands more tactical insight at a certain point then largescale. Especially if you relying more on the 'single' mind instead of the singular

    Contradicting what exactly? The role of the lord should be slowing down the cap speed during low pop hours, but it shouldn't be an upscaling raid boss for the zerg, at which point it should shift more towards mass pvp aspect of the wvw.

  • TheWolf.1602TheWolf.1602 Member ✭✭✭

    Sentries should get a boost, they can't even kill a defenseless dolyak...

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

    A lord is pve... One that interfereces with the wvw player vs player combat.

    A small group, like 1-10 ppl should have difficulties taking it WHEN 1-10 ppl defend it.

    Big groups, like 50 man fullblobs shouldnt be phased by the lord, especially, when fighting another 50 man zerg, that has shorter ways to come back

    Hmmm? That sounds rather wierd...kinda contradicting to the nature of the beast, smallscale allready demands more tactical insight at a certain point then largescale. Especially if you relying more on the 'single' mind instead of the singular

    Contradicting what exactly? The role of the lord should be slowing down the cap speed during low pop hours, but it shouldn't be an upscaling raid boss for the zerg, at which point it should shift more towards mass pvp aspect of the wvw.

    And whats PVP without a little circumstancial strategy? There's always An option for open field fighting if you like. Secondly small scale been gutted to favor the zerg, which been favored on so many occasions last years in updates its actually crazy. But if you insist kid:

    I see 3 things happening if the lord gets 'harder' for small scale
    1. A strong 50 man zerg balling on the lord and cant be touched since support goes to the ones that need IT (most skills)
    2. A 10 man group struggling to get the right coordination out to kill the lord and the players
    3. A small havock group that gets inside need to kill in An x amount of time before the zerg responds

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @L A T I O N.8923 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    @acidic.4356 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:

    Sentrys and Supply Camps are not game winning objectives, though they do contribute to the final score. No one is soloing Keep or Castle champions

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    On the red border id say lors are too strong even, being stuck in a tiny circle that isnt passable, even with stability can mean death to a whole zerg.

    4 minutes is a long time, not including how long it takes to get through outer and inner. If it took 4 minutes to take a Supply Camp a lot less would be flipping. Half the time if you can't take it before swords pop you're probably going to have to deal with minimum of one defender.

    I suppose I should rephrase though, what I meant was that people soloing Keep lords is uncommon. It can happen, yes, but it's time consuming and unlikely to achieve uninterrupted unless it's off peak hours. Anything can be soloed with enough time, but by that logic, all NPC's should be buffed in such a way that they cannot be damaged unless a certain threshold of players is met, which I don't think anyone would want.

    Im not sure what you are trying to tell me?
    Replying to the wrong post?

    Imo lords should just be dmg sponges to zergs, to give defenders time to actually come defend, and not help to actually wipe a zerg, like keep lorda on red borders can do.
    They should offer some difficulty to small groups or solo players tho. Keeps are important objectives and should only be capped by players that know what they are doing or big groups of players.

    Someone mentioned powercreep and how much faster they die now, but you also have to factor in that defenders are alot faster now, with gliding and warclaw riding.

    Camps are fine as they are, make them any harder and you will kill roaming even further.

    I mean i agree with you lords should be sponges on a certain level. Bosses on dessert bl have their own Theme, unique keep and a lord/Boss to match those

    And to be fair i like lordroom fights more there because IT can make you seize momentums more. For example airkeep isnt 'stack on the lord with 60 so those 20 cant Harm you', how open lordroom of firekeep is (but tbh they could add a bit more lava there).

    IT grants something alpine or ebg barely does; different encounters. Now its basicly who hits the most accurate on placebound red circles. On airkeep Being that team and rushing to lord Will get you killed (and lord is a big factor for that).

    Long story short; i wouldnt mind a tryout for different lords on alpine/ebg because they feel kitten An easy, especially since towerlord is single target damage

    Its hard enough to flip a t3 keep with defenders inside, these lords make it almost impossible, if the defenders have about the same numbers. No amount of personal skill or strategy will change that, if you cloud at the boss, you are an easy target for the enemy zerg, if you stack at the boss you will get caught in the circle and be an easy target for the enemy zerg.

    Pve shouldnt have an impact on the outcome of 2 big blobs fighting, it should only impact small fights.

    Not sure if i understand what you mean by smallscale and largescale here ...and especially WHY IT needs pve

    A lord is pve... One that interfereces with the wvw player vs player combat.

    A small group, like 1-10 ppl should have difficulties taking it WHEN 1-10 ppl defend it.

    Big groups, like 50 man fullblobs shouldnt be phased by the lord, especially, when fighting another 50 man zerg, that has shorter ways to come back

    Hmmm? That sounds rather wierd...kinda contradicting to the nature of the beast, smallscale allready demands more tactical insight at a certain point then largescale. Especially if you relying more on the 'single' mind instead of the singular

    Contradicting what exactly? The role of the lord should be slowing down the cap speed during low pop hours, but it shouldn't be an upscaling raid boss for the zerg, at which point it should shift more towards mass pvp aspect of the wvw.

    And whats PVP without a little circumstancial strategy? There's always An option for open field fighting if you like. Secondly small scale been gutted to favor the zerg, which been favored on so many occasions last years in updates its actually crazy. But if you insist kid:

    I see 3 things happening if the lord gets 'harder' for small scale
    1. A strong 50 man zerg balling on the lord and cant be touched since support goes to the ones that need IT (most skills)
    2. A 10 man group struggling to get the right coordination out to kill the lord and the players
    3. A small havock group that gets inside need to kill in An x amount of time before the zerg responds

    I never said that lords should become harder. Alpine lords are fine, red border lords are too much.

    I qant it for smaller groups to be a challenge because keeps shouldnt be easy for small groups, those are objectives that, if not sneaked, should be taken by large forces.

    Its easy to find a small group to attack a keep, so it should be harder for them to take.
    But its relatively hard to find 50 organized ppl to attack, so it should be easier for them to take it.

    And 50 ppl vs 50 ppl takes enough strategy (even tho alot of ppl on the forum tend to say otherwise, but its my opinion) that there doesnt need to be some npcs kittening you up. Especially while being attacked from every side and having your opponents constantly running back with their warclaw after you killed them, and your dead ppl having longer distances to walk and most likely having to open the gates again.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Their AI should be improved to use left behind siege weapons and repair stuff and have HP and damage buss especially champions should be a threat at least.

  • Both Tower and Keep Lords on DBL can easily be solo'ed and from my observation groups take them out with minimal effort. Alpine Keep Lords seem the Strongest. I would be in favor of making all npc stronger especially the support guards/scouts and other lower rank npc. But seeing as Iron Guard tactics were taken from camps due to them being too hard to solo with it, it's doubtful it will happen. Used to be guards would rezz fallen players, wonder why that was changed.

    Everything from God, everything to God. Only He hast the wisdom and temperament to balance good and evil so all may be harmonious and thrive, mankind only sees that which benefits themselves. Blessed be all, may we all accept his light.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    @witcher.3197 said:
    I'm not asking for Anet to add raidbosses or increase PvE drastically in WvW.

    It's just that sentries, camps, lords etc have barely been touched since the release of the game and thus couldn't keep up with powercreep whatsoever. On deadeye for example I can solo a sentry in roughly 3 seconds.

    For comparison Anet has buffed NPCs on sPvP maps such as Foefire because the guild lord (a potentially gamewinning objective) was getting soloed in a matter of seconds after all the powercreep. WvW NPCs exist for a reason, but they've become a joke.

    So what do you think? Yay or nay? Why or why not?

    You are correct. I have been asking myself the exact questions for years and would think Anet would realize it. I do find it a joke but seriously, why would Anet not realize it during all the Toxic increase?

    Sure the Npc are computer generated without feelings but seriously, they are there for a reason and do have an impact in the environment,..so why not give them value?

    That is the problem with the game design, there is no value whatsoever

    No worth, No meaning, No potential, No focus, No clear direction, No clear decisions, No learning, No Appreciation, No reflection, None whatsoever

    Absolutely None!!

    At least give NPCS a chance to defend themselves

  • miguelsil.6324miguelsil.6324 Member ✭✭✭

    If anything remove the dam unblocable blinds from the scouts.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I seem to have the opposite opinion of most ppl so far. I'd say the keep and tower lords are mostly fine -- other than buffing desert garri and maybe nerfing desert net a tad -- but camp npcs need a buff. It's just a camp so if players don't come to defend it ofc it should flip, but the npcs should give players the opportunity to come defend it. As it is now the x doesn't usually pop until after all the npcs are dead and the circle is up. Anet wouldn't have to make the npcs stronger to fix that, they could just make the x pop as soon as the camp is contested instead of on a thirty second delay. Either way, I think a change would benefit the mode, but it's not real high on my list of priorities . . .

    NET lord is easy if you don’t bring Condi. Power builds melt him

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    I'd much rather spend my time hitting a semi-intelligent guard than an immobile structure piece.

    yes

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2019

    the guards are fine, just the lords, need to fix up the lower end of the scaling, should not be soloable so easily

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