Why do so few people care about figthing? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why do so few people care about figthing?

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  • @displayname.8315 said:
    It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

    Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

    really? in my experience: no

    just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

  • and absolutely only fight with advantage.

    This reminds me of a certain saying: If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you're bad at tactics. If you find yourself constantly getting ganked by groups of 2-5, then you need to make friends to roam with you.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • because it turned into:

    • go in stealth
    • approach enemy
    • be the first to land rev hammer 3 spike

    it has nothing to do with skill anymore, it has nothing to do with fighting.

    a fight game must be designed so no matter if you win or lose it must be a fun experience no matter who wins.
    in gw2 wvw after first fight 5 people of the loser team leave the squad. so much for the „fun game“.

    i have no reason to play it after work anymore, just log in for daily login rewards and off directly.

    if a game is kitten people look for other fillup of their free time, its not that anyone needs wvw or gw2 to have a hobby. ;)

  • To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @SlateSloan.3654 said:
    because it turned into:

    • go in stealth
    • approach enemy
    • be the first to land rev hammer 3 spike

    it has nothing to do with skill anymore, it has nothing to do with fighting.

    a fight game must be designed so no matter if you win or lose it must be a fun experience no matter who wins.
    in gw2 wvw after first fight 5 people of the loser team leave the squad. so much for the „fun game“.

    i have no reason to play it after work anymore, just log in for daily login rewards and off directly.

    if a game is kitten people look for other fillup of their free time, its not that anyone needs wvw or gw2 to have a hobby. ;)

    That really depends on the server to be honest. In some servers it is true that 5+ people leave instantly after 1 fight. But on fight servers it seems to be the opposite effect, if people starts dying then there usually pops up a q since there are fights so people decides to actually log in to fight (unless if lossing literally more than 5-10 fights in a row then the q might slow down).

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    =) join my friday draft arena battle for workshop. huhu @,..,@ its organized and you get to fight a lot and for fun

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    Like right now I am alone from my team on alpine, there are 3 blues who does all in their power to upgrading towers etc, two of them diamond legends running mirage, beat them one time and now all they do is running as a grp, me and a red thief have absolutely no chance 1 vs 2 mirage and a guardian. Running core ranger myself have no problem killing them 1vs1 might get them 1vs 2 but 1v s 3 WHAT IS THE POINT

  • Mokk.2397Mokk.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Some people do care about fights as long as they are fairly evenly matched numbers wise. Problem is the losing side just brings more people ,even a map blob and chase you around endlessly. Some people just can't take a defeat honourably .

  • @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @displayname.8315 said:
    It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

    Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

    really? in my experience: no

    just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

    Organized enemy group huh. Those little fights can be fun when you have the door portals and walls. Those kind of "threats" aren't as organized as one might perceive.

    "Organized" fights are really rare anymore and usually one sided.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @displayname.8315 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @displayname.8315 said:
    It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

    Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

    really? in my experience: no

    just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

    Organized enemy group huh. Those little fights can be fun when you have the door portals and walls. Those kind of "threats" aren't as organized as one might perceive.

    "Organized" fights are really rare anymore and usually one sided.

    yes, which is why ppl should try draft mode =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    and absolutely only fight with advantage.

    This reminds me of a certain saying: If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you're bad at tactics.

    This. It's basic Sun Tsu really ... fair fights aren't really a thing. Objectives SHOULD offer natural advantages to defenders, it's a perfect way to handicap the game - teams that attack are usually more organised(at least have a commander) and/or bigger. Over the years the devs have tweaked the balance around objectives making it both quicker and easier to capture them, whilst at the same time offering automatic stuff to defenders that discourages people from running small scale tasks. It's as if someone reduced crafting from 500 to 200 levels. It makes sense, eliminates stuff people can't be bothered with, but it's less interesting.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

    This has alot more to do with siege than objectives.

    If you could just destroy that fort door with your attacks like in every other RvR game on the market from the last 20 years and take a tower with a five man party and no slow siege like Flame Rams, and the enemy team had a chance at retaking it even if they only had a few players due to no siege spam, constant supply running/ganking, etc. then you'd feel very differently about the overall premise of objectives.

    This is the only RvR game I've seen with such an obsession with siege, upgrades, PvE instead of PvP, etc. The whole thing seems interesting on paper but outside of blobbing at peak times its just a snoozefest that favors the side with more players.

    Its ironic because siege is made to be anti-zerg tools but everything about the design favors zergs.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    To all the people saying "attacking or defending objectives creates fights", yes you will encounter enemies, but standing in arrow cart fire while ramming the door for the 1000th time gets really boring. If you are an organized group and the enemy is just a bunch of pugs, there is no way they are going to do anything but hit you with siege and run away. Taking every objective doesnt usually result in interesting combat. Typically there are at most a couple organized groups your size you can fight, and you have to run around the map looking for them, while ignoring the group of 5-10 pugs with a single cata taking your t1 tower. Contrary to what people seem to be saying, most fight guilds want to fight equal sized groups of similar skill, without the BS of siege and pug clouds.

    yeah, just like us pugs on the weekend, when the red blob had destroyed all our siege and we just hit them with lava, meteors, rev hammers and barrages and then went all over the wall. Winning.

    That was a fight. A fight not decided by siege, but by situational awareness and determination.

  • @SlateSloan.3654 said:
    because it turned into:

    • go in stealth
    • approach enemy
    • be the first to land rev hammer 3 spike

    it has nothing to do with skill anymore, it has nothing to do with fighting.

    and the solution would be the same as the solution with half of the balancing issues: REMOVE STEALTH FROM THE GAME

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @primatos.5413 said:

    @Sleepwalker.1398 said:
    What's a "FIGTHING"?

    It´s a FIGHT THING ! :) a.. thing for .. fighting i thing ^^

    I was hoping it was a fig thing. I like fig things.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben.2160 said:
    I think many people do like fights. The issue is they don't want or care if it's a fair or challenging fight.

    I've lost interest in the mode for many reasons. And only come in do to wood chests or dailies.

    Most fights are either outnumbered us v them or vice versa. Result - bigger group wins unless the bigger group is really
    unorganised. Equal numbers is a mixed bag.

    Or

    OP/broken/cheese gank builds either on own, twos or three's. Perma stealth Deadeye, evade staff daredevil, lol which one is the real me? Mesmer,
    invul...block...0... invuln warriors, pew pew from afar soulbeasts, constant barrier weaver and so on.

    Now I do like to run behind enemy lines and take camps. But lately on my travels All I encounter 99% these days are these Op builds that are just a
    pain to fight and almost impossible to beat. It's just unfun. But so is mindlessly running around in a zerg. The mode is just not fun or rewarding enough
    for me any more.

    Lately ive seen the least amount of op builds than I have in a long time. I see the odd god mode weaver, the lucky 8 clone condi mirage (cant think of any other "op' builds)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Jayden Reese.9542 said:
    Because most of you solo dudes looking for fights only run some op or cheeze build and spend your entire day jumping players and either killing them quickly or god forbid you get a good fight and start losing you easily disengage and mobility off because it wasn't an easy fight. You run w ascended food 18 plus 5 infusions a pure single target pvp spec which is nerfed in spvp so you can only run it in wvw. Your day is 30-1 record except the times you get adds and that's so unfair because they all should line up and 1v1 and get slaughtered so you cry no one wants to fight. NO it's we play the mode the way it designed to with taking and defending objectives killing whoever but eventually we learn the guys that run the instant they losing and just ignore them or team up to jump them because they constantly attack newer or average skill players all day. Looking at eb guy gutz guy and any ie member and dozens of others we learn are a waste of our time unless nothing going on or we bored

    This.

    There is very few roamers who actually roam for good fights. 90% are more gankers trying to burst away some players catching up to the public on a blob build. My respect and condolences to the actual roamers for gankers giving them a bad name.

    While Spvp is mostly a dead game mode, that's the place to go if you ACTUALLY want to get some good fights 1v1 or 1v2 depending on what rank you are.

    Yup pretty much. If i see another player anymore and im by myself i WP very quickly. Im not capable nor will i ever be capable of fighting one on one, and honestly its less fun. Ive started playing DE lately just so i can stealth and run away so i can keep going about capturing camps and killing yaks and guards without fighting players, thank god for that.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Whiteout.1975Whiteout.1975 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2019

    @Sansar.1302 said:
    What mindset do these players have ?
    Why do so few people care about figthing?

    Let me start of by saying, personally, I care about fighting so long as it's entertaining and ultimately feels like I'm achieving something in game worth my time. I would purposely roam/havoc and purposely risk being outnumbered x2 or x3 at least because I generally, by far, found more of a challenge that way. After all it's not exactly like WvW does a wonderful job of pairing opponents on a similar skill level. Anyways, back to your questions...

    The simple answer would be... Because @Anet.

    The longer answer would be...
    Because @Anet slowly (because WvW was widely neglected (and is still widely neglected)) created an environment (WvW) for which, over the years, has gradually (especially in later years) attracted a much less competitive player base different from what originally started with the game back in 2012. There is little to no incentive to actually compete. We are to compete over points over a very lengthy period of time with population balance issues across the board and with little if anything to show for it... Amazing. Though, I guess this is a sandbox like mode with no incentives/real goals. However, because there is a poor (if any) incentive to compete... We are just gonna see more and more people left with a mindset to not really want to do anything more than farm the mode rather than actually play it.

    Maybe someone want's to play just for fun?... That's cool, but chances are the person you're wanting to fight against has plenty problems with the games "balance" these days just as likely as the next guy. So, having honest "fun" (most of the time) gets to be... Let's say, quite a bit more questionable at that point considering that. The reason WvW carried it's more competitive minded players for as long as it has was because, for some, there was this illusion that "winning" still mattered (talking from experience with others), community/friends (the social aspect) and balance was better; so fighting (win or lose) was much more respectful regarding the outcome.

    So the mindset we got more of. Is the mindset Anet gradually attracted more of. What?... Did they think they were gonna heavily attract the PvP player base with the PvE derived mount idea? Of course not I'm sure. Therefore, @Anet with all due respect, but how about attract an audience that actually likes to fight to begin with (similar to the OP) the next time you add something. Just my two cents is all :)

    "You can't have quality population balance without quality participation." 🤯

    ~ Me

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Two words:
    Imbalanced combat.

    Why fight when the very act of doing so isn't fun? Excessive powercreep is what kills PvP games, and why most of the people interested in the fights quit WvW and GW2 as a whole.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    The combat system is the worst part of this game, and it's only gone downhill with time. I still get fairly constant (small) fights because I play around objectives, but I don't log on much because those fights just aren't all that fun anymore and the objectives are meaningless outside of generating fights.

    So I think it's a combination of people ignoring objectives in small scale, not bothering to fight for objectives in large-scale because those fights are one-sided and whoever wins the first will win all the rest, and having nothing to fight for since points mean nearly nothing and it's not very fun in and of itself.

  • EmeraldNight.4307EmeraldNight.4307 Member ✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    i think it is because the reward from fights is very little by comparing with Ktrain or the other contents, even the WXP gaining is not that stable because there might be no enemies today but camps/ towers/ keeps are always there...

    i'm still running with fight guild every night because the fight is fun for me, but while fighting in WvW can only provide fun and no other rewards, you can expect that it will only get a little people enjoy it, because this "fun" is not for everyone.

    but then there will be a lot of keyboard warriors jump out and yell something like bandwagon and huge blob will get advantage...

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    See many complain about balance, have all classes at 80 with elite specs unlocked.
    Have tried solo roaming with all, some more than other ofc.
    I think balance is pretty good as even necro got a spec where it can solo roam quite nice.
    What I had to do where to get over my fondness of the visual style on my specs and go fore the things that actually preform.
    There is some hard counters but not many at all.
    So many people run around with total garbage specs with no clue how to use the class in wvw and esp solo.
    Makes me sad when they play the more powerfull smal scalers like mirage and port or run when they see me, only fight when they can 1v2+ :(

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    The concept of failure in gaming is unacceptable these days. Everyone's gotta be a winner.

    And when it comes down to it, people just want to win, regardless of how they do it.

    There are a lot of good posts in this thread but I think this may be the best. But it still misses the point in that anet has addressed this by removing all of the consequences from 'losing'. So if you look at how the mode is designed 'losing' in wvw isn't a failure, it's just part of the game. But players don't seem to be able to see it that way, so they avoid fights if they think there is a chance they might lose :/

  • well there's still the "fighting tags" around sometimes that specifically seek fights. they only siege stuff to attract enemy zergs or blobs so some fights happen. quite common @ EU t1.

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @displayname.8315 said:
    It's driven by the pugs now. The guilds all quit. Rule #1 is No tag = dead map.

    Even with tag might not get fights.. depends on numbers and skill level. If the pugs are terribad commander will not fight.

    really? in my experience: no

    just this weekened outside of prime time one of our keeps was attacked by an organzied enemy group - and people just came an defended. Without a tag. Sucessfully. Sometimes a tag is nothing more than a map marker. You can do without.

    thats acutally kinda random. sometimes people gather up and do something, like flip a tower, cloud enemies and defend a keep - others just afk once there is no tag around or engage pointless (they probably find it entertaining or practice) smallscale skirmishes with enemy roamer groups (8-15 people groups)

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    well there's still the "fighting tags" around sometimes that specifically seek fights. they only siege stuff to attract enemy zergs or blobs so some fights happen. quite common @ EU t1.

    This is how my small havoc guild works in NA

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019
    • because match last week when 4 hours would be more than enough
    • I don't have motivation fight against players who play some weird cancer specs/class
    • winning a fight doesn't give you anything
    • your side lose all fights if they don't read metabattle and follow commander like some sheeps

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2019

    I think alot of it is also lack of end-game. True, WvW is the end-game of the end-game, but WvW itself has no end-game, you just capture objectives and fight other players and increase your score and you invest lots of time into this for.. what?

    It'd be better if like, as a reward for holding objectives for a duration, you could assault their main camp, kill the Legendary Defenders there and then enter the portals, taking you to a special (non-PvE) version of a destroyed Lion's Arch that's a warzone where server tiers temporarily don't exist; just red, blue and green across all servers in the region making their last stand in "Tyria" after winning/losing the Mist War.

    Something similar is implemented in almost every RvR game I've played. In GW2 WvW just..ends when you capture stuff.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Junkpile.7439 said:

    • because match last week when 4 hours would be more than enough
    • I don't have motivation fight against players who play some weird cancer specs/class
    • winning a fight doesn't give you anything
    • your side lose all fights if they don't read metabattle and follow commander like some sheeps
    • tbh the skirmish is what matters and that time is perfect.
    • If you dont fight them, you will never learn to beat them, thus you are messing yourself over by not trying to enjoy the game mode by learning to beat them (thus they no longer become a problem for you...this is a l2p issue)
    • Ive gotten ascended and a precursor from winning fights so I can confirm this isnt true. This may be due to avoiding a bunch of fights as you have stated above where I try to fight everything I can.
    • Ive seen many groups (including my havoc group) win fights against bigger coordinated groups and most of us do not run meta (actually...I dont think many of us does). This reason could also be summed up as l2p.

    What builds do you have trouble with and what do you play? Some of us may be able to help you out :)

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
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    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    The majority of the players in this game never wanted to fight. It was always about boasting, gloating and bag farming.
    Almost all of the "self-proclaimed fight guilds" worked that way. They tried to stack to a certain server to avoid fighting each other or just left after losing a fight because the "others are stacked". If they really were in it for fights, they had spread all over the servers not to one or two. The whole gvg scene was about this in the last few years. You are a big fight guild but you lost 5:1 vs another one? It was a scrim, your setup wasn't perfect, your drivers dog was ill, etc.
    But why fight vs. good guilds when you can run over pugs all day while hiding in SMC behind some walls?

    Same goes for the majority of "self-proclaimed" roamers. They pick a easy to master fotm class, run around, shooting people that run to their zergs, evading any 1v1 just to make the next 1v1 they encounter a 1v2. Sometimes they group up and erase the chance of a 1v1 because they'd lose anyway and having someone helping to make sure the 2v1 is way more fun, right?
    I stopped roaming when I saw two people fighting 1v1. Sat nearby watching and after the duel one of the duelist got his three guild mates to gank me before I even could /bow. The same guys that run from me 1v1 at least two times the same evening. This happened so often in the last years that I mainly stopped trying to be nice to "roamers" or "duelers"
    People aren't out there to fight. It's all about the ego and killing stuff.

    If you can accept that, this game is great, but you have to be a major kitten to enjoy it.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • this mode is about taking objectives not about fighting actual human players.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    this mode is about taking objectives not about fighting actual human players.

    But I'm not sure if that is what is was supposed to be about. It's possible that the intent was to use the pve objectives to attract or focus fights, and has arrived at its present state through neglect rather than design . . .

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

    how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    Yes, works for what?

    The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

    If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:

    @Shadowresli.3782 said:
    because there is no fighting in wvw, it died alongside GWEN.
    that spamfest of condis and boons, dancing around one another for minutes when two bigger groups meet, then a quick spike, death of one group and repeat.
    it's unsatisfying and boring, and can't be called fighting

    It’s basically been like this since day 1. Only difference is you can replace condition with that awful meta of warriors and guardians leaping in and spamming #1. It was that meta when most people started leaving.

    Most fights occur anyway in and around structures. Seldomly do we see open field fighting, even in year 1. There has never been much of a point to it

    Why does open field fighting happen in other MMO's with it though?

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2019

    @SoV.5139 said:
    WvW Forumites: We want more fights!!!

    Also WvW Forumites: Plays burst + full escape kit, hit and run build which hits 20% of the time and runs 80%.

    Everyone else: /shrugs, then run the opposite direction which results in no fight happening through to completion.

    **this is a direct result of demanding "high risk high reward" builds, getting what you wished for, then min maxing to minimize the risk. No one wants to fight that, so they simply bounce the first time an entire escape kit is blown to reset after the first failed burst. No one wants to play against the "let me reset the fight as many times as I fail until I finally win" builds.

    AKA - People didnt really want high risk high reward. They just couched their feedback into those terms to make it sound convincing, and are now running around on a low risk high reward build wondering why no one else other than the other 8 people per tier who are ALSO running around on low risk high reward builds, wants fights.

    The bunker meta folks complained about supposedly not requiring any skill in the past, actually required multiplicitively more skill than the current meta does. Full escape kits can be hard countered simply by running in the other direction with swiftness on.

    That is a great observation, I hope everybody takes time to read it.

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Two words:
    Imbalanced combat.

    Funny thing, now that lots of classes can more-or-less one shot most of the others, the game is arguably more balanced than ever. But was balance ever desirable to begin with? Or would some form of dynamic handicapping and "event" oriented PvE intervention (not necessarily a giant dragon summons or volcanic eruption) be desirable? I guess we'll never know.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.

  • @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Its getting really bad, mmhm.

    If you want a serious fight, destroy the gates to a tower and just leave it down, don't cap it. Keep the guards down and watch as enemies just flood in to become bags for you, thinking they are defending when really they are falling into a trap.

    sounds like a real serious fight there -kappa-

    seen many groups get wiped while doing this when an actual organized group shows up

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

    how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

    As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    Yes, works for what?

    The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

    If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

    how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

    As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    Yes, works for what?

    The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

    If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

    =) well as long as you are happy

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

    how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

    As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    Yes, works for what?

    The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

    If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

    =) well as long as you are happy

    Thx :)

    The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    well if you like dying again and again, thats on you. =)

    how does getting farmed work? if thats a win for you then dont change =)

    As long as death is free of consequence, I don't plan to. So long as I get to fight, it's win-win :)

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Sovereign.1093 said:
    some of us have all the classes and we can easily change professions to counter the opposition. it's like rock paper scissors. not many have this option unless they gear up properly and it takes time. that's why if possible there should be one toon that can be all professions and can have altered gear on the go. >3<

    It should also be pointed out that a lot of us can't be kitten to change classes/builds just to win a fight when we could just as easily die and run back without consequence . . .

    that's the thing isn't it :) faced a lot of people with certain composition. the moment we did the rock to their scissors, it's their turn to get farmed again and again until they stop coming. it's a little effort but it works.

    1) I never stop coming. I love tying up 'better' builds/groups by dying over and over . . .

    2) works for what? That's the problem. The game should be designed in such a way that the tactic described in 1) doesn't work, but it always does . . .

    Yes, works for what?

    The game is literally designed so you cant win by doing that. You need PPT and PPK to win. No matter what part of that you aim for... it doesnt work.

    If you only want annoy people well the game is definetly designed for that. Its premise is to be an MMO after all.

    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    Though I shouldn't have said it 'always' works, as there are certainly players who will lose interest and move on. It works a lot though. More often than it should :)

    =) well as long as you are happy

    Thx :)

    The only time I really get frustrated in wvw is when the ppl on my side won't fight. It's never made sense to me to get frustrated at the players on the other teams bc they're the enemy, they're supposed to be frustrating :p

    as for frustration = i see multiple tags not handholding against blobs. or multiple open tags in one map.

    there should only be one open tag, all other groups should be invis.

    dont compete for members.

    i.e. versus fa ane ar. when we united. they easy. then multiple spread. meh...

    guild must learn 10 on squad only. let other members help open tag

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    But you said that the game should be designed in such a way that this doesnt work.

    It is designed in that way. In a micro WvW universe where only you and half a dozen enemies exist, you dont win by tying up any number of them. Hence the game is designed so that it doesnt work.

    Whether you consider it successfull play or if you are riding the PPT success of your server by preventing random enemy caps is a whole other thing. That has nothing to do with design. That has everything to do with players being stubborn.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    It works for holding them in place, prevents their moving around the map and capping things. Players will stay in one place if they think it means they'll get to kill someone over and over. It's weird, but I promise it works. If I as one player can control the behavior of a half dozen enemy players, I consider that successful play . . .

    But you said that the game should be designed in such a way that this doesnt work.

    It is designed in that way. In a micro WvW universe where only you and half a dozen enemies exist, you dont win by tying up any number of them. Hence the game is designed so that it doesnt work.

    Whether you consider it successfull play or if you are riding the PPT success of your server by preventing random enemy caps is a whole other thing. That has nothing to do with design. That has everything to do with players being stubborn.

    Yeah that's fair. It is more the fault of the players than the game I suppose. True of most wvw problems . . .