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  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I agree as to GoB and similar content that requires players to come and try the mode then decide for themselves whether to stay or go once they have what they need, but I'm with the quoted poster on the idea of making dailies more time consuming. Players coming in just for dailies doesn't really do anyone any good . . .

    ROFL...this band-aid solution will backfire so badly...it's beyond hilarious.

    What you don't understand is dailies at least creates consistent foot traffic to GW2.

    If WvW doesn't have any real reason for players to stay & play the game mode....nobody would want to come.


    Imagine a shopping mall where there's nothing you really want there, but they daily give out a limited amount of free sample candy.

    Imagine if the shopping mall made visitors have to answer surveys & perform complex tasks to earn their free sample candy.

    Only real reason visitors come is for the free sample candy.

    How many of these mall visitors that come for the free sample candy will continue to come - knowing they have to spend 3 hours to get it?


    Actually this is more like the milk in the back of the supermarket strategy.

    GW2 being the only supermarket that has this WvW game mode & they're forcing customers to walk 3 miles to the back of their store to get to the milk.

    How many customers will be willing to put up with this to get to the milk before trying to find a different supermarket, or give up on buying milk?

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.


    @Diku.2546 said:
    WvW is meaningless & amounts to nothing without Tournaments.

    I'd like to see Tournaments brought back, but it has to be done correctly, or it's going to be un-healthy for players & this game mode.

    WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Model
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diku.2546 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I agree as to GoB and similar content that requires players to come and try the mode then decide for themselves whether to stay or go once they have what they need, but I'm with the quoted poster on the idea of making dailies more time consuming. Players coming in just for dailies doesn't really do anyone any good . . .

    ROFL...this band-aid solution will backfire so badly...it's beyond hilarious.

    What you don't understand is dailies at least creates consistent foot traffic to GW2.

    If WvW doesn't have any real reason for players to stay & play the game mode....nobody would want to come.


    Imagine a shopping mall where there's nothing you really want there, but they daily give out a limited amount of free sample candy.

    Imagine if the shopping mall made visitors have to answer surveys & perform complex tasks to earn their free sample candy.

    Only real reason visitors come is for the free sample candy.

    How many of these mall visitors that come for the free sample candy will continue to come - knowing they have to spend 3 hours to get it?


    Actually this is more like the milk in the back of the supermarket strategy.

    GW2 being the only supermarket that has this WvW game mode & they're forcing customers to walk 3 miles to the back of their store to get to the milk.

    How many customers will be willing to put up with this to get to the milk before trying to find a different supermarket, or give up on buying milk?

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.


    @Diku.2546 said:
    WvW is meaningless & amounts to nothing without Tournaments.

    I'd like to see Tournaments brought back, but it has to be done correctly, or it's going to be un-healthy for players & this game mode.

    WvG TOURNAMENTS - Using New Match-Up Mechanics based on a Globe Raiding Model
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1064956/#Comment_1064956

    Now imagine if ppl came to the mall to fight . . .

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:
    Engagements should be decided by class balance, not some arbitrary function, like every open world PvP game, most of the time when someone engages they should be able to attack or get some heavy damage in some way or another, the only thing is that in this game you don't lose anything if you escape.

    Yeah, skill and tactics should never decide engagements, that would just be ridiculous.

    Engagements should be decided by the engager because no amount of skill nor tactics will chase some cat.

  • What is the point in having such a big kitten if you can’t keep it hard?

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Now imagine if ppl came to the mall to fight . . .

    It's nice to see that we both agree that it would be nice if this happened, but it's a pipe dream.

    Without a Serious Step-by-Step Road Map & Vision to fix our WvW game mode.

    Discussions here will continue to just go in circles & get absolutely NOTHING done.

    Based on my above post...I can't find another Supermarket with the milk I want.

    As this continues without a plan to fix it since GW2 launched...I'm losing faith in trying to be heard.

    I'm buying less & less milk as this supermarket continues to ignore the WvW customer's wants & needs.

    This supermarket will eventually find out just how important the WvW crowd is...as we watch the upcoming financial reports come rolling in in 2020.

    NCSOFT Earning Releases:
    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    Like I said in the previous post...WvW is meaningless, but it's fixable.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diku.2546 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Now imagine if ppl came to the mall to fight . . .

    It's nice to see that we both agree that it would be nice if this happened, but it's a pipe dream.

    Without a Serious Step-by-Step Road Map & Vision to fix our WvW game mode.

    Discussions here will continue to just go in circles & get absolutely NOTHING done.

    Based on my above post...I can't find another Supermarket with the milk I want.

    As this continues without a plan to fix it since GW2 launched...I'm losing faith in trying to be heard.

    I'm buying less & less milk as this supermarket continues to ignore the WvW customer's wants & needs.

    This supermarket will eventually find out just how important the WvW crowd is...as we watch the upcoming financial reports come rolling in in 2020.

    NCSOFT Earning Releases:
    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    Like I said in the previous post...WvW is meaningless, but it's fixable.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    You missed the point . . .

    You don't want 'foot traffic' to wvw, you want ppl who want to be there. So one-offs like GoB or the mount or event weeks are good bc it entices ppl to come try wvw out, but doesn't encourage them to stay long term if they don't enjoy it. Quick and easy dailies do the opposite, encouraging ppl who have tried the mode and know they are not interested in it to come back every day anyway. This is a disservice to both the mode and those players . . .

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You missed the point . . .

    You don't want 'foot traffic' to wvw, you want ppl who want to be there. So one-offs like GoB or the mount or event weeks are good bc it entices ppl to come try wvw out, but doesn't encourage them to stay long term if they don't enjoy it. Quick and easy dailies do the opposite, encouraging ppl who have tried the mode and know they are not interested in it to come back every day anyway. This is a disservice to both the mode and those players . . .

    I didn't miss your point...

    Let's do it your way then & this is my prediction of what will happen with your solution.

    Solution: Make WvW Dailies "More Time" Consuming

    Maybe start with 3 hours - Gop.8713 controls How Time Consuming WvW Dailies are made into


    Time Line of Events before things Backfires

    1. Veteran players primarily provide WvW Content by their attack & defense leadership roles
    2. WvW will flourish for a short while as Veterans are forced to put in more time
    3. Veteran players will adjust & realize that WvW Dailies are Time Consuming
    4. Veteran players after adjusting will choose NOT to play in WvW, OR not to play GW2 at all if not enough time to do Dailies
    5. Noob WvW players who are clueless on what to do will have nobody to follow
    6. Critical players - Commanders & Wannabe Commanders - Will be ok if they're on the Winning Team, but Losing Team will Tank hard
    7. Vicious Cycle of No WvW Content due to NO Veteran OR Decreasing levels of Foot traffic

    I already don't Play GW2 because it's not fun anymore & there's no reason to win. We just back cap things & the winner is the team that has more players.

    "I already Don't Play GW2" opinion - Validity Mileage may vary...depending on your perspective.

    ROFL...this band-aid solution will backfire so badly...it's beyond hilarious.

    I disagree with you that your band-aid solution to Make WvW Dailies "More Time" Consuming will fix our WvW game mode.

    I do agree with you that we do need a solution...at this point....ANYTHING...to help the WvW game mode survive.

    Actually...maybe we shouldn't be doing ANYTHING to fix things...because throwing liquid on a fire might not help with extinguishing it...(i.e. gasoline).

    Instead...WvW needs a Serious Step-by-Step Road Map & Vision to fix our WvW game mode.

    I'm confident that WvW is fixable, but it won't get fixed because of the poor decisions done in the past seem to get repeated today.

    IF WE'RE SERIOUS on saving our WvW game mode. We need to bring back Tournaments, but this would only be part of a larger solution.

    Tournaments can be Highly Toxic to the WvW game mode if it's done with the wrong context.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    War Games I would kitten on a Spark Plug

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Diku.2546 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    You missed the point . . .

    You don't want 'foot traffic' to wvw, you want ppl who want to be there. So one-offs like GoB or the mount or event weeks are good bc it entices ppl to come try wvw out, but doesn't encourage them to stay long term if they don't enjoy it. Quick and easy dailies do the opposite, encouraging ppl who have tried the mode and know they are not interested in it to come back every day anyway. This is a disservice to both the mode and those players . . .

    I didn't miss your point...

    Let's do it your way then & this is my prediction of what will happen with your solution.

    Solution: Make WvW Dailies "More Time" Consuming

    Maybe start with 3 hours - Gop.8713 controls How Time Consuming WvW Dailies are made into


    Time Line of Events before things Backfires

    Veteran players primarily provide WvW Content by their attack & defense leadership roles
    WvW will flourish for a short while as Veterans are forced to put in more time
    Veteran players will adjust & realize that WvW Dailies are Time Consuming
    Veteran players after adjusting will choose NOT to play in WvW, OR not to play GW2 at all if not enough time to do Dailies

    Why would you assume players only play for dailies? I play bc I enjoy it, and the dailies come -- or sometimes don't -- and I'm fine with either. By your logic everyone just logs off right after their dailies are done. It's nonsensical . . .

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Why would you assume players only play for dailies? I play bc I enjoy it, and the dailies come -- or sometimes don't -- and I'm fine with either. By your logic everyone just logs off right after their dailies are done. It's nonsensical . . .

    We're both right. Let's agree to disagree.

    Please continue to encourage ANet:

    Solution: Make WvW Dailies "More Time" Consuming

    Maybe start with 3 hours - Gop.8713 controls How Time Consuming WvW Dailies are made into


    I'll continue to encourage ANet:

    Solution: Give us a Serious Step-by-Step Road Map & Vision to fix our WvW game mode

    Then if we're lucky...maybe we can somehow get ANet to save the WvW game mode that we both seem to love.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think if having 20 ppl log in to wait for a vet to spawn so they can kill it and log out is a part of your road map, it could be improved :)

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I think if having 20 ppl log in to wait for a vet to spawn so they can kill it and log out is a part of your road map, it could be improved :)

    Nope...It's not 20 ppl log in to wait. It's a lot more comprehensive than this.

    WvG - World vs Globes - A How To Guidebook to Fix WvW
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Great, then the removal of the quick and easy dailies should proceed without objection :)

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Great, then the removal of the quick and easy dailies should proceed without objection :)

    Yes...

    We're both right. Let's agree to disagree.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Except you don't actually disagree, you said the quick and easy dailies weren't in your plan . . .

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    Except you don't actually disagree, you said the quick and easy dailies weren't in your plan . . .

    If it makes you feel better, WvW Dailies is really a tiny design component within the above posted Road Map & Vision.

    Your suggestion to make Make WvW Dailies "More Time" Consuming...would need to be reviewed in relation to other WvW components & How it aligns with the overall Vision.

    Still wishing ANet would post their own version of their WvW Road Map & Vision Thread...Stickied

    That's why I continue to try & present a sample for them to reference in helping them create their own.

    They have 3-4 threads already, but it's all over the place & not updated.

    World Restructuring Update 2
    2018.11.29
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/61986/world-restructuring-update-2/p1

    World Restructuring Update 1
    2018.07.02
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/45856/world-restructuring-update-1/p1

    World Restructuring FAQ
    2018.02.02
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26877/world-restructuring-faq/p1

    World Restructuring
    2018.01.31
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/26547/world-restructuring/p1


    Here's my attempt to try & keep track of WvW related threads:

    Guild Wars 2 Forum: The Library - WvW
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/886101#Comment_886101

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    I agree a lot of wvw's problems stem from anet's failure to define the mode and instead taking an 'all things to all players' approach that leaves everyone frustrated . . .

  • Diku.2546Diku.2546 Member ✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I agree a lot of wvw's problems stem from anet's failure to define the mode and instead taking an 'all things to all players' approach that leaves everyone frustrated . . .

    Wow...Totally Agree

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.

    Yours truly,
    Diku

    Credibility requires critical insight & time.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yes EotM should be for casuals and WvW for tryhards

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    map completion for wvw must be made again.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    Dont believe the game is called Tekken

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    The majority of the players in this game never wanted to fight. It was always about boasting, gloating and bag farming.
    Almost all of the "self-proclaimed fight guilds" worked that way. They tried to stack to a certain server to avoid fighting each other or just left after losing a fight because the "others are stacked". If they really were in it for fights, they had spread all over the servers not to one or two. The whole gvg scene was about this in the last few years. You are a big fight guild but you lost 5:1 vs another one? It was a scrim, your setup wasn't perfect, your drivers dog was ill, etc.
    But why fight vs. good guilds when you can run over pugs all day while hiding in SMC behind some walls?

    This is a good point. There was no real intent for competition. There are some exceptions that would easily take on map queues or arrange gvgs for the "fight"; they didn't mind wiping but these are far and few between. The grand majority would pretend to want fights but they'd get wiped once and here comes the map queue. And we also had the common cycle of several nuthugging guilds banding to form a superalliance and then make cringeworthy montages of them overruning pugs. Indeed, the alliance system would just be mostly that. Average lifespan? About 6 months. Then you'd see some cry post about some "community" I mean bandwagon fall apart, and ofc "pls open it!"

    But that's not even the big deal. Their alliances required the work of many PPTslaves because without them they would quickly drop tiers and then find some other server to infest. In a sense they were sorta like leeches relying on the people whose style of play they demean.

    Same goes for the majority of "self-proclaimed" roamers. They pick a easy to master fotm class, run around, shooting people that run to their zergs, evading any 1v1 just to make the next 1v1 they encounter a 1v2. Sometimes they group up and erase the chance of a 1v1 because they'd lose anyway and having someone helping to make sure the 2v1 is way more fun, right?

    Lol, well, I can't throw too many rocks from a glass house. I'm definitely closer to a ganker than an actual roamer; tend to freely +1 people to keep the enemy zerg smaller. while having little or no 1v1 ability against a "real" player. I also tend to ditch fights too fast. But at least I don't think I'm good because I have 2 supports always following me. That would be sad!