Game design that causes toxicity — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Game design that causes toxicity

Stealth
The use of any ability in stealth should instantly remove stealth. Getting hit while stealthed should reveal you. Stealth probably shouldnt even exist.

Quickness
The quickness boon should not exist in pvp. Reacting to telegraphed attacks is the whole point of mmo style pvp, and quickness removes that from a lot of skills.

Abundant Aoe
Mass aoe promotes lazy gameplay. It rewards players for spamming attacks without having to worry about who they are going to hit, or where the enemy player is.

Chaining CC
The primary use of cc should be to interrupt key skills, and should require careful planning and execution. Aoe cc should only exist on highly telegraphed, long cd skills.

Chaining defensive skills
Defensive skills like evasion, blocks, invuln should not be so common that players can regularly chain 2-3 of them together.

1 Shots
1 shot builds should be forced into 100% damage, 0% defense. Building a 1 shot character should require the use of all offensive traits and utility. If they miss their burst they should have next to no ability to sustain and disengage.

Conditions and Boons
Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs, conditions were originally designed to be sustained damage over time. In general, boons should not be permanent, conditions should not be bursty. Similarly, cleanses should have to be used sparingly, and corrupts/boon strips should be rare.

Visual Noise
Players should be able to see their opponents animations.

Please note: This post is about game design, not balance. I am not mentioning issues such as power creep, specific class balance etc.

Comments

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    u mean teleports

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Stealth
    The use of any ability in stealth should instantly remove stealth. Getting hit while stealthed should reveal you. Stealth probably shouldnt even exist.

    Quickness
    The quickness boon should not exist in pvp. Reacting to telegraphed attacks is the whole point of mmo style pvp, and quickness removes that from a lot of skills.

    Abundant Aoe
    Mass aoe promotes lazy gameplay. It rewards players for spamming attacks without having to worry about who they are going to hit, or where the enemy player is.

    Chaining CC
    The primary use of cc should be to interrupt key skills, and should require careful planning and execution. Aoe cc should only exist on highly telegraphed, long cd skills.

    Chaining defensive skills
    Defensive skills like evasion, blocks, invuln should not be so common that players can regularly chain 2-3 of them together.

    1 Shots
    1 shot builds should be forced into 100% damage, 0% defense. Building a 1 shot character should require the use of all offensive traits and utility. If they miss their burst they should have next to no ability to sustain and disengage.

    Conditions and Boons
    Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs, conditions were originally designed to be sustained damage over time. In general, boons should not be permanent, conditions should not be bursty. Similarly, cleanses should have to be used sparingly, and corrupts/boon strips should be rare.

    Visual Noise
    Players should be able to see their opponents animations.

    Please note: This post is about game design, not balance. I am not mentioning issues such as power creep, specific class balance etc.

    at this point you want to play different game, if you change everything then whats the point of playing gw2?
    also removing stealth... gl how do you balance thief/mes that loses it?
    CC? if you remove CC you have to remove stun removing tools, how do you controll warrior with 2-3 CC you have if he has 3 stunbreakes? on same cd as your cd skills too!
    Bursty Condi -> Only burning does it, and only on burn guard or weaver, propably due to vomiting too much of it or having 25might when it applies, if 1 burn deals 2,2k dmg. And primordial or whatever passively will apply 10 over its duration its too much. But then again condi in general is bad.
    With boons I agree, but only with Quickness, Might, Stab.

  • @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs,

    I mean... according to the wiki or any information source, were boons really intended to be short term buffs?
    (I agree boons should not be permanent/ easily accessible)

    This is your fate

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Stealth
    The use of any ability in stealth should instantly remove stealth. Getting hit while stealthed should reveal you. Stealth probably shouldnt even exist.

    Quickness
    The quickness boon should not exist in pvp. Reacting to telegraphed attacks is the whole point of mmo style pvp, and quickness removes that from a lot of skills.

    Abundant Aoe
    Mass aoe promotes lazy gameplay. It rewards players for spamming attacks without having to worry about who they are going to hit, or where the enemy player is.

    Chaining CC
    The primary use of cc should be to interrupt key skills, and should require careful planning and execution. Aoe cc should only exist on highly telegraphed, long cd skills.

    Chaining defensive skills
    Defensive skills like evasion, blocks, invuln should not be so common that players can regularly chain 2-3 of them together.

    1 Shots
    1 shot builds should be forced into 100% damage, 0% defense. Building a 1 shot character should require the use of all offensive traits and utility. If they miss their burst they should have next to no ability to sustain and disengage.

    Conditions and Boons
    Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs, conditions were originally designed to be sustained damage over time. In general, boons should not be permanent, conditions should not be bursty. Similarly, cleanses should have to be used sparingly, and corrupts/boon strips should be rare.

    Visual Noise
    Players should be able to see their opponents animations.

    Please note: This post is about game design, not balance. I am not mentioning issues such as power creep, specific class balance etc.

    at this point you want to play different game, if you change everything then whats the point of playing gw2?

    I have pretty much quit gw2 at this point, but still care about the game. I also dont think addressing these points change everything. The fundamental parts of combat, skills, and classes would remain the same.

    also removing stealth... gl how do you balance thief/mes that loses it?
    CC? if you remove CC you have to remove stun removing tools, how do you controll warrior with 2-3 CC you have if he has 3 stunbreakes? on same cd as your cd skills too!

    My post was more of a general statement on toxic game design. I didnt bother to consider how removing toxic elements would effect all the different classes and their skills. But yes, stun breaks and stab would have to be addressed along with cc itself.

    Bursty Condi -> Only burning does it, and only on burn guard or weaver, propably due to vomiting too much of it or having 25might when it applies, if 1 burn deals 2,2k dmg. And primordial or whatever passively will apply 10 over its duration its too much. But then again condi in general is bad.

    I consider condi burst to also mean the number of conditions applied. Some builds can consistently cover you in 6+ condis. Condi stacks and damage is more of a balance issue.

    With boons I agree, but only with Quickness, Might, Stab.

  • @Lighter.5631 said:
    u mean teleports

    I knew i forgot to mention a few things.

  • @KurokawaKazuma.8641 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs,

    I mean... according to the wiki or any information source, were boons really intended to be short term buffs?
    (I agree boons should not be permanent/ easily accessible)

    I meant that individual boon application used to be much more limited than it is now. I could be mistaken, but in the past I dont remember high impact boons like stab, prot, quickness, might stacks being so easily accessible to so many classes.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @KurokawaKazuma.8641 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    Boons were originally designed to be short term buffs,

    I mean... according to the wiki or any information source, were boons really intended to be short term buffs?
    (I agree boons should not be permanent/ easily accessible)

    I meant that individual boon application used to be much more limited than it is now. I could be mistaken, but in the past I dont remember high impact boons like stab, prot, quickness, might stacks being so easily accessible to so many classes.

    Because ArenaNet wants support to be viable.

    The problem is, almost everything in the game that affects your party also affects you, this kind of toxic gameplay will always exist until "allies only" skills exist. Just like how the reason DPS is so high is because "no damage" skills are rare, so instead of having to chose between damage and tactics, damage is tactics, the whole reason Rampage was so heavily nerfed in this latest patch.

    It should be: Damage =/= CC =/= Support =/= Tanking
    Instead we have: Damage == CC == Support == Tanking
    Where Support is allied healing and boons, and Tanking is self-applied healing and boons.

    Its not all individual problems, its all the same problem just distributed through the entire combat system. Every player is everything to everyone including themselves, with only a few minor variations (access to Aegis/Quickness, stealth, teleport, etc.).

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay (formerly Jade Quarry) | Mains Mariyuuna/Tempest & Terakura/Spellbreaker | ♀♥♀

  • I agree with the first part of stealth only, and not with the aoe part at all. aoe is vastly inferior to melee in pvp. try playing a staff ele and see how that goes. that said the aoe radius on a lot of things could stand to be nerfed.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    No none of these things cause toxicity thats all on the player themselves you choose to be a butt or a bully intentionally. If you choose to play something you know is busted and will likely frustrate someone you make the choice to do that. Even then its not toxic to some people just using the builds or getting kills with said annoying build. But if you decide to talk trash or bully someone with no reasoning via hate whisper them while doing so its not the mechanics its just the person behind the controls.

    Dont blame game mechanics for inexcusable behavior and not having common sense.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I agree with the first part of stealth only, and not with the aoe part at all. aoe is vastly inferior to melee in pvp. try playing a staff ele and see how that goes. that said the aoe radius on a lot of things could stand to be nerfed.

    I also include cleave as aoe

  • @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    I agree with the first part of stealth only, and not with the aoe part at all. aoe is vastly inferior to melee in pvp. try playing a staff ele and see how that goes. that said the aoe radius on a lot of things could stand to be nerfed.

    I also include cleave as aoe

    hmm I don't disagree but its not really a problem in pvp, more so in wvw.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2019

    @ZDragon.3046 said:
    No none of these things cause toxicity thats all on the player themselves you choose to be a butt or a bully intentionally. If you choose to play something you know is busted and will likely frustrate someone you make the choice to do that. Even then its not toxic to some people just using the builds or getting kills with said annoying build. But if you decide to talk trash or bully someone with no reasoning via hate whisper them while doing so its not the mechanics its just the person behind the controls.

    Dont blame game mechanics for inexcusable behavior and not having common sense.

    The toxicity im describing is not the fault of the players, its on the devs. Toxic mechanics promote toxic gameplay. Is me silently getting annoyed at getting 1 shot from stealth inexcusable behavior? Is getting frustrated at condi mirage mechanics just me lacking common sense? No. The core mechanics and game design are toxic.