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Limit hp loss to 30% from stealth.


Skyronight.6370

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An easy way to fix one shot mantra mesmers and other 0 counterplay builds is to simply limit the damage you can take from stealth. dosent matter if its one or 5 players, if you get spiked from stealth you should not be lower than 30% hp. As someone pointed in another thread, in true competives games you wont see a stealthed team pressing 1 button and winning. It just dosent happen. Right now people can do the same with holo, ranger, thief or anything that can stealth for an extended duration then insta cast one shot from stealth.

There is 0 counterplay and 0 skill required to perform the above. The only counter play is to literally random dodge or spam all your defensive cooldowns and hope you avoid the burst which is not a good approach for a pvp game mode.

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Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

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@"dDuff.3860" said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

you have to aim in a FPS game, not in gw2. and fps games dont have stealth not sure if you re trolling

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@Skyronight.6370 said:

@"dDuff.3860" said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

you have to aim in a FPS game, not in gw2. and fps games dont have stealth not sure if you re trolling

Sombra in OW does,Also, If you sit in the highround position with a sniper rifle it is literally stealth.

You have to set up your burst in gw2, to get 100-0 at least on builds that can do so from stealth.

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@dDuff.3860 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

you have to aim in a FPS game, not in gw2. and fps games dont have stealth not sure if you re trolling

Sombra in OW does,Also, If you sit in the highround position with a sniper rifle it is literally stealth.

You have to set up your burst in gw2, to get 100-0 at least on builds that can do so from stealth.

Not really. Thief stealth port to enemy use assassins signet and most targets are dead.

Mesmer- stealth port to target press a few buttons and most targets are dead. Much set up such complexity

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Limit mesmer clones/phantasm to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit guardian healing to 3k per 5 seconds.Limit necromancer condis to 1 per 5 seconds. Also Life Force to 3k per 5 seconds.Limit ranger arrows, they can only have 5 at time, then they need to reload for next 3 seconds. Also only 2 boons per 5 seconds.Limit ele dodges to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit warrior crits to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit engi movement in Photon Forge to 400 per 5 seconds.Limit rev energy usage to 40 per 5 seconds.Teef mentioned in the title.

We cool now?

PS: The only thing that imo should get stealth attack nerf is Mbs, other things are survivable/avoidable because of lack of damage, proper animation or not enough stealth stacking.

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@Widmo.3186 said:Limit mesmer clones/phantasm to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit guardian healing to 3k per 5 seconds.Limit necromancer condis to 1 per 5 seconds. Also Life Force to 3k per 5 seconds.Limit ranger arrows, they can only have 5 at time, then they need to reload for next 3 seconds. Also only 2 boons per 5 seconds.Limit ele dodges to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit warrior crits to 1 per 5 seconds.Limit engi movement in Photon Forge to 400 per 5 seconds.Limit rev energy usage to 40 per 5 seconds.Teef mentioned in the title.

We cool now?

PS: The only thing that imo should get stealth attack nerf is Mbs, other things are survivable/avoidable because of lack of damage, proper animation or not enough stealth stacking.

Limit thief initiative usage to 5 per 5 secs.You forgot that one.

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@dDuff.3860 said:

@dDuff.3860 said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

you have to aim in a FPS game, not in gw2. and fps games dont have stealth not sure if you re trolling

Sombra in OW does,Also, If you sit in the highround position with a sniper rifle it is literally stealth.

You have to set up your burst in gw2, to get 100-0 at least on builds that can do so from stealth.

Completely different genre and cant be compared. A mmo engagement ideally plays out far different than a fps game and I'd hope to not have to explain the many very obvious reasons why.

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@"dDuff.3860" said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

force game shift meta to bunker again? lolz.

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I'm not sure I like the idea of going through all the trouble to build up malice against a squishy target, only to hit them from stealth and find out they're playing a build with 11k health and I'm capped to hit them for 3k no matter what (that's about 1 crit AA worth of dmg). Hey 30% of 17k is 5k. Plenty of skills can easily reach higher than that.

Death's Judgement and backstab would have to be completely redesigned. Which is fine I guess, but how?

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@"dDuff.3860" said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

Is this really acceptable game balance for a casual mmo? Do you really think that builds with reasonable health and toughness should be able to get 1 shot from stealth, faster than some peoples reaction time? Even on a bunker build when im expecting a stealth burst, I can still lose up to 50% of my health before i can react and dodge the rest of the spike. Getting punished for running low defense, and getting punished for not having pro player reflexes are two very different things.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:What if stealth just made you slightly transparent and untargetable, but we could still see you?

I think the mass invis from Mesmer which is already a separate type of stealth could be changed the way he suggested. Other possibilities could maybe the passive invis from SA Deadeye such as the auto in is for rezzing or the on the heal/ dodge rolls.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:What if stealth just made you slightly transparent and untargetable, but we could still see you?

so useless?Alright, now give every stealth class +30% max hp, extra 200 toughtness and some sustain to match no stealth classes.Though I think this guy is right that that change to all steal might be too much. For one if u get rid of actual stealth then all dp and deadeye builds may be forced to run SA for the extra sustain. Not that it would be bad, but I honestly thing some of the thief builds that can get 1 source of stealth are fairly balanced rn so I have to ask if this would be too much of a nerf just to delete some of the more cheesy builds which I don’t think are even super viable rn like core crit strikes dp thief? Probably not but add in a hot fix to certain over performing stealths like mass invis on core Mesmer? Sure

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@Dantheman.3589 said:

@Eurantien.4632 said:What if stealth just made you slightly transparent and untargetable, but we could still see you?

I think the mass invis from Mesmer which is already a separate type of stealth could be changed the way he suggested. Other possibilities could maybe the passive invis from SA Deadeye such as the auto in is for rezzing or the on the heal/ dodge rolls.

@Eurantien.4632 said:What if stealth just made you slightly transparent and untargetable, but we could still see you?

so useless?Alright, now give every stealth class +30% max hp, extra 200 toughtness and some sustain to match no stealth classes.Though I think this guy is right that that change to all steal might be too much. For one if u get rid of actual stealth then all dp and deadeye builds may be forced to run SA for the extra sustain. Not that it would be bad, but I honestly thing some of the thief builds that can get 1 source of stealth are fairly balanced rn so I have to ask if this would be too much of a nerf just to delete some of the more cheesy builds which I don’t think are even super viable rn like core crit strikes dp thief? Probably not but add in a hot fix to certain over performing stealths like mass invis on core Mesmer? Sure

Stealth for 1shot build is used to suprise people, that change makes it no longer do that so its bad there.In sustained builds slike pmirage it serves as a short reprieve of damage and repositioning tool, it will no longer serve that reason. meaning it no longer does what its used for. meaning its useless. ALOT of the skills can be used without a target, and holo reveal alone would make such stealths unusable.

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@Eurantien.4632 said:What if stealth just made you slightly transparent and untargetable, but we could still see you?

no.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Alright, now give every stealth class +30% max hp, extra 200 toughtness and some sustain to match no stealth classes.

yes.

You're out of your mind if you think I'm going to even touch thief with the health pool it has now if I cant use stealth to manage it.

@Skyronight.6370 said:An easy way to fix one shot mantra mesmers and other 0 counterplay builds is to simply limit the damage you can take from stealth.

Backstab and Deaths Judgement can no longer kill opponents with this rationale, so not as easy as you think.

Also most opponents reveal themselves and do follow up damage that hits you well after they are out of stealth so you won't see much change from this. Itll only really hurt:

StealthmaulBackstabDJ

Also, what about classes that dont have the stealth generated by them? Do they get a damage nerf because a thief tossed feathers right when they were bursting?

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@"Skyronight.6370" said:An easy way to fix one shot mantra mesmers and other 0 counterplay builds is to simply limit the damage you can take from stealth. dosent matter if its one or 5 players, if you get spiked from stealth you should not be lower than 30% hp. As someone pointed in another thread, in true competives games you wont see a stealthed team pressing 1 button and winning. It just dosent happen. Right now people can do the same with holo, ranger, thief or anything that can stealth for an extended duration then insta cast one shot from stealth.

There is 0 counterplay and 0 skill required to perform the above. The only counter play is to literally random dodge or spam all your defensive cooldowns and hope you avoid the burst which is not a good approach for a pvp game mode.

0 counterplay my ass. Just pay attention to the builds your enemies are running and take measures against it (requieres knowledge of the game tho). There are plenty of ways to prevent a spike, especially from stealth - both actively and passively & i am pretty sure will find all of them mentioned in said threads. Obviously you shouldn't force yourself into situations were you can't react to a spike, whether it is happening from stealth or not - you simply misplayed in the better part of "the above". In addition you're acting like one shot builds are a win condition lmfaooo. No need to fix at all.

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I still think a stealth debuff that starts after 3 or 4 or 6 secs of stealth either deactivating all passive dmg multiplier or making the strealthed unable to crit or simply reduce the overall dmg by 40% and debuff ends 1 secs after the target dropped out of stealth would still be the best. Oneshot tries out of short stealth which cannnot be stacked completely out of ear shot and visible range are counterable. Both the stealthsed and his target can actively work with that debuff and it would not prevent all defensive and repostitioning/rotation uses from stealth. That thing could also replace the reveal debuff in WvW what makes the usage of skills with more than 3 secs stealth completely useless most of the time, what is kind of stupid.

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Stealth should be a tactic used by individuals and teams to gain a initiative advantage. I actually agree with the way stealth is currently being used to open up a fight, the whole dying in a few hits thing is more of a damage problem than a stealth problem.

What I don't agree with is that stealth is so easy to spam for a few classes, while others have to make very tactical use of it. And no, I don't agree with having balanced those classes around that either or how weak it makes them (Thief, and to some extent Mesmer), just like how the Elementalist can often feel rediculous to play for being squishy just for the sake of it and creates artificial difficulty.

But as the other seven classes in the game show, there are ways to make a class strong without over-reliance on stealth mechanics. And I have seen some highly-skilled Thieves play without it entirely which proves this.

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@"dDuff.3860" said:Compare this to any fps game, where you get oneshotted by a headshot, from say sniper rifle? same 1 hit KO from sort of "stealth"Compare this to other MMO, where one magic crit wooshes you

If you're too slow and/or too unaware about circumstances you're in, and your build has no defense while wearing no defense stat amulet (vitality/toughness), you're going to be punished.

Except,this is not FPS,and if you seriously comparing MMO game to FPS,im out of words literally.

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