Big Update News!
Svarty.8019
Member ✭✭✭✭
(517584747)
News regarding the Big Update.
On the livestream 5th Dec 2019, Dev Cal talked a bit about the upcoming Big Update...
At 29 minutes, Cal talks about the Big Balance patch that's coming.
"Damage numbers will definitely come down, that is a a guarantee [..] there will definitely be healing reductions as well". He justifies a big patch with lots of messy problems very well.
At 1 hour 11mins Cal talks about CAST TIMES. "We can't have instant cast CC, we can't have instant cast large damage".
"increasing cast time on CCs is something we're very much looking at".
"Skills that do too many things at once [..] definitely problematic".
"In terms of CC in general one of the things we're looking at, the thing we just did with Rampage this patch for PvP where all of the CC -all the hard CCs now just do a trivial amount of damage - and I think that's a really interesting direction for the entire game moving forward and it's something that we want to try for the Big Update is making ALL hard CCs have a trivial amount of damage, cuz then it creates a more interesting decision of like, 'do I want to face tank it and then stunbreak, or do I want to dodge it, avoid the CC?', as opposed to like, 'This skill's just going to destroy me if I don't dodge it'. "
This post contains my opinion.
Comments
mmm so we going to the direction of interrupt? i hope game remains action packed
of course, tournaments pls
1 week in 2 months, the week before reset. so we get 7 weeks preparation
Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.
I am excited, but also very worried about this. Worried about how cheesy disengage builds will become even stronger if my Bull's Charge, if it ever goes through to hit them at all, doesn't take half their health anymore. I just hope low damage builds aren't getting shafted by this.
Pls just permaban me by now so I can stop going back here
They are finally catching on. I'll give them props for heading in the right direction now let's see some results for once.
Aurora Glade Server Leader
[VR] Violent Resolution - SoS
As I've discussed in threads before, I'm very much for the introduction of non-damaging skills, especially hard CC. However, before this goes through they need to do something about the prevaileance of full escape kits and death-centric gameplay.
Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
No need to be best, only good and kind.
"Skills that do too many things at once [..] definitely problematic".
So pretty much every Guardian skill. In particular they better be looking at nuking Eternal Oasis down to the level of the new Devouring Darkness, aka, cleansing 1 boon on 5 allies, as opposed to cleansing 5 boons on 5 allies. That is the very first change they need to make above and beyond all else.
So still no fix to the hard cheese of macro instant skill chains...yawn.
Sounds like they know what the problems are..... and what steps that need to be made to straighten things in a right direction... but we'll see...
Cal looks like a no nonsense hard to impress kind of guy.
7mins Playing on YB, Cal on warrior, Raymond on guard, 3 omega rush an empty t3 garri.
13mins talking about lunch being code name for lunch
18mins talks about leek soup instead of leaks
19mins takes nwt with 4 golems no resistance
21mins talks about no down state being well received but wouldn't want it permanent, next one maybe in april..... (that long?)
24mins net defenders show up
27mins no news on alliances, will probably come in a blog post in forums
28mins Cal starts talking about upcoming balance process
31mins damage numbers will definitely come down
32mins healing reduction will also be looked at
38mins Cal talks about balancing for all levels of skill
41mins jumps to desert bl, gets really boring after this just ppting...
1hr seasons were something they were ages ago were talking about after alliance went live
1hr7mins starts talking about balance again
1hr11mins mentions some cast times increasing on some skills like cc's
1hr13mins skills doing too much is problematic
1hr22mins talks about balance again, initial balance pass will involve a lot of nerfs skill splits in numbers
1hr26mins finally get into a zerg fight in ebg durios
^ Another derailing post - Anet
Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
/Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me
I don't have a lot of confidence after watching this. I guess it's nice to know they realize the game mode still exists, but I don't get warm feelings listening to them talk about it.
Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.
Anybody thought it odd that there wasn't an enemy response to their Capture of Bay & Garrison?
They casually walked...no mesmer portals...like a boss...across an open field while being observed by an enemy standing in the Home player's Ruins at (8:33) to get to the SW Garrison gate.
They breached 2 Fortified Gates of Garrison while only fighting NPC.
It was kind of hilarious to see the [ Repel the Enemy Attackers ] pop-up warning at (14:55) after they just finished capping Garrison right in succession after capping Bay.
ANet must really be charmed when assaulting a Fortified Enemy Garrison after also capturing Bay while streaming, or WvW really is PvE.
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1
The one time they joined my guild run we were constantly bombed and brigaded by enemy players who were clearly watching the stream and started hunting us down lol No ez caps, but lots of fights around our Keeps.
Pls just permaban me by now so I can stop going back here
While you are at it maybe have a look @ how players can be affected by cc chains... like perma stun ... stun (and maybe all other cc) should get a rework... once stunned (uses stunbrak), stuned again, then some time (idk maybe 1-2 seconds) players should not be able to be stunned again.. so (nearly) perma cc (like pistol whip spam for example or some warrior builds or what else) won't be a thing anymore..?! Just thinking..
And thanks for the update
i noticed on the last section when they started talking about fights - i feel they should join coms sometimes and gather data. because it's different to play as pugs not in coms and as a decent organized team in coms.
i mean anet can make their own 5 man team to roam and do stuff to check it out.
Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience hosting ANet during their "Live Stream" event.
WvW is an online war game & I think it's a bad idea to "Live Stream" your military operations for enemies to pick up on.
Maybe there should be a delay to the streaming content by an hour to help prevent the active bombing & hunting of ANet in real time?
ANet might already be doing a delay in streaming their content...so the above comment might be incorrect...in which case I apologize
Didn't mean to offend you...just wanted to point out that it was pretty odd...that these WvW Objectives were captured on "Live Stream"...without an Enemy Response until they started attacking NW Tower. It's unfortunate that when ANet streamed while you were the Host...there was a Substantial number of Enemies wanting to Respond. Maybe nowadays...not so much anymore.
Seriously...
They casually walked...no mesmer portals...like a boss...across an open field while being observed by an enemy standing in the Home player's Ruins at (8:33) to get to the SW Garrison gate.
Of course it's not all a bed of roses...after observing the rez death at (38:03)...which often happens when you care for your fellow squad member.
I'd really like to see them talk more about How they Plan on Hosting Healthy Competitive Match-Ups with Tournaments to be the real reason players return to play the WvW game mode that needs to be Wholesome in nature & avoids/reduces player Burn-Out.
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1
Im absolutely against this, this might be good in zergfights, but in 1v1s there are just so many stunbreaks going around.
For this reason hammer on warrior is almost not viable anymore in spvp and duels, because since hot and pof everybody just farts out stab and stunbreaks.
Im happy to see the direction they are going, but having no dmg on any cc?
Hope they are compensating for it, atleast for some skills, i mean just take a look at backbreaker hammer 5 from warrior.
Imagine casting a singletarget skill with 1sec casttime, meleerange and no damage, that only cc's, and is negated by a single stunbreak or stability and also has 25s cooldown.
they dont have to be good. they just need experience
i like seeing our devs play. but sometimes i see their frustration when they got killed a lot in this stream.
Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.
It's a good learning experience for the devs to feel real frustration that New Players experience & what it takes to get over it.
How can we explain this frustration to New players to WvW that are forced into a Match-Up where they end up being cannon fodder for the winning team to chew on? The devs in the video was on a team scoring 150-200 WvW points...so they weren't exactly starving.
Our current Fixed 3-Way Fight Model will always end up being manipulated by smart veteran players that want to stack for the win.
World Linking or Alliance Linking...it's going to end up the same way. Manipulated by veteran players.
Players that desperately figure out How to Stack on the "better" team.
Players that fail to get on the "better" team...will need to chose between being a punching bag, or to quit playing until they can get on the "better" team.
We need a better Fight Model & not a better Team Creation Mechanic.
Instead the WvW ecosystem should allow for different niches of play-style...which would solve a lot of harsh frustration...by allowing players to pick the level of fight ability of players you're likely to go up against. The higher up you go in the pyramid....that more challenging the game mode...the lower you go...the less challenging & more slower paced the play-style should be.
Players should be allowed to pick which level they want to fight in, but will need to deal with a long waiting queue for picking popular choices....similar to what happens when you go out to dinner & pick a very trendy restaurant, local bar, or plain family restaurant.
Priorities....sigh...gotta love going in circles
As far as the Big Update...great...Reduce Damage & Change Buff Numbers.
What happens when nobody can kill each other?
Will we end up having more epic 3 way dances going back & forth over objectives for longer periods of time?
I'm trying to imagine West Side Story with the gangs armed with KFC Sporks.
Extreme model of this...hmm...wonder if this might work?
Is this really what we want?
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/89449/wvg-world-vs-globes/p1
kitten just put in diminishing returns already for CC. CC spam has been a problem throughout all game modes.
If damage is coming down, boon rip has to come up or we'll just be in a perma tank meta which is zero fun for anyone. it'll also make siege way stronger than it already is
it needs beta testing
so we can give feedback.
i got to stress. devs need to join coms x fight teams and gather data
vets can pull off 8 cs 35 and win in various situations. they need to see that spectrum
Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.
I’m gonna remain skeptical. TTK should go up, so I can roll with that...but these changes sound like bandaids and a false philosophy about actual balance.
These chances seem promising. I 100% support the idea of reducing overall dmg and healing. Good step to revert the powercreep.
Sure, big update is coming.
-
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Right after Alliances.
Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons
One can only hope that in the cast time department they have a look at most of necromancers horrible cast times that make no sense as flesh worm being a stun break that needs to be pre set. makes no sense as many other 1s cast times for the class with lowest stability in the game or damage
denials.
+1
I agree
'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'
Nice find Svarty and thanks for sharing.
Not to sound ungrateful or anything but what's big about it I'm having trouble seeing.
The only really big thing recently is that they hired CMC and let him work on relevant stuff because he always seems to stay on task, says the right things (or is on point when he talks), motivates and explains as well as being productive. He's been cutting alot of the red tape that hampered work on PvP or PvP balance in the past. Even in this weekly video there's a notable difference between how Cal and Ray talks.
I guess Ray can be excused though having worked on Alliances all by himself for so long
.
That no information is out about Alliances since the last year update, over the april roadmap to the august spectacle and up until christmas is a very big failure on ArenaNet's promise to be communicative part.
How to solve population balance
Q&A
I see it coming already: nerf to ele, and nothing happening to rangers, mesmers, thieves or revs.
they want to balance the mess? simple: first fix stealth or make players in stealth SLOW
Well, yes, but that is what balancing and working on a PvP game mode is meant to deal with. It really isn't a major and niggling issue unless you completely forget about a game mode like ArenaNet have done. PvP modes requires less upkeep (sandbox vs. themepark) but they do require some minimum level of upkeep and attention that ArenaNet have always failed to deliver on. More and less do not equate to essentially everything and nothing.
Alliances are still favoured by those "manipulating veterans" because it is one step into addressing stacking, population imbalance and manipulating the system. That does not mean that people are going to stop finding advantages or game the system. Meta gaming is apart of playing the game. It is on ArenaNet to stay ontop of things even if they can't stay ahead of things. That onus is on them and it is on them not abandoning their mode and players.
Well, yes. The answer is in my signature and has always been what's in my signature. The sooner other people comes to that realization, the sooner the "active" population balance can be solved and the results of stacking will be far less felt. That is the other aspect of ArenaNet and WvW (or perhaps in general) that they have wasted so much time and resources on being stubborn and wanting to do things in their own indirect ways. In the end, they will come to a conclusion similar to mine same as how they have done with TDM-mechanics for tournament PvP (and GvG). They have just been so wasteful kicking, screaming and ruining player rapport to get there.
How to solve population balance
Q&A
also warrior: blockblockblockevadevadeblock balanced?
mesmers? balanced?
rangers? either half their damage or half their range
thieves? someone who can engage and disengage at will must not do any damage AT ALL.
you (devs) think it is fun to be hit by 17k out of stealth? or balanced?
Well tbh. Ele is insanely strong right now. At least in 1v1 and 1v2 situations.
And for zergplay it never was really bad so....
But I'm completely with you. Those other classes need some serious nerfs
this bit should totally count in the "instant cast high damage" issue, because most of the time the receiving player has no way to see the incoming attack. Either make stealth slower than a player with swiftness, or add some visual cue so players have a chance to see the incoming attack. Or lower stealth duration for skills, or change thief stealth attacks to be utility oriented rather than pure damage. There are many potential ways to address the issue.
My mallyx renegade tends to destroy weaves and tempests.
Some difficulty when its a decent player, but manageable.
Sometimes, must admit against weaver e feel a bit carried.
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
Stealth attacks could also be changed from high damage to high CC if the stealth classes are meant to have some specialist stealth attacks, creating the situation that Cal talks about in the stream - letting them set bigger attacks up but giving the attacked player the option to counter the big attacks with cooldowns, breaking the CC or blocking up through it.
How to solve population balance
Q&A
The whole system should be:
Each build has these options and only access to 2 of them.
Stealth, Mobility, Burst, Tankiness, Healing, Boons
So, if you pick stealth and mobility, you won't burst and your damage is mediocre, you can't heal much, you don't get boons without help, etc.
If you pick mobility and burst, you have no access to stealth (except from group) and are not tanky, your heals are bad, you have no own access to boons, etc.
and so on. Without a change like this we will still have abominations like deadeye, scrapper, warrior, condi mirage, etc.
Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]
Agreed: stealth needs to be more risky. I personally like the “Bird of Prey” option where all attack skills are disabled when in stealth mode. That way stealth is only useful for positioning. Of course that would delete a class or two so it won’t happen...
It's one thing to talk about this stuff and another to do it. It's sad that just having some random dev mention something on a stream qualifies as big news.
The bottom line is that someone decided Elite Specs would be a great way to sell power and after two rounds of that the combat in the game grew so untenable that WvW and PvP basically died. Now they're dropping hints that they're going to reverse course. Well, it's not so easy to unsell one's soul...I want to believe it, but I need to see it first.
Remove stealth from Mesmer give them other mechanics
huehuehue
Make them damage alies, swap keyboard that kind of stuff.
Stealth should be done by just a few builds, there’s to much of everything, stealth included
Btw no class should allow macroable skill bursting
Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon
Remove Stealth from Mesmer and give them nothing and they are still way better than many other professions. The goal has to be to bring classes in line with each other, not nerfing one and creating another kitten like "scrapper".
Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]
Great. I guarantee this means more Necro nerfs and increased stealth and range for Thieves. I would bet money on it.
good direction, now actually do it instead of waiting a couple of months while the game continues to die. more frequent patches already. it somethings broken, FIX IT.
te lazla otstara.
fingers crossed meta ~
I guess you quoted me first and then decided not to do it but it gave me a highlight to come look so I'll guess I'll use that to make some talking points.
I'm not sure if agree that stealth is such a major issue on a broad level. It is an issue but it is mostly an issue limited to one class. Most other stealth classes may have other issues but it is not necessarily tied to their ability to stealth or to other classes ability to counterplay their stealth. Thieves do present an issue with the amount of stealth. They have an overabundant amount without even resorting to using all their sources.
The other classes have a couple of sources but can rarely take them all and still be competetive as well as while they have some strong abilities those are easily counterplayed by somewhat equally competent opponents. Things like the gyro or MI are strong but if you reveal them they're gone and they have longer cooldowns than the reveals. The same goes for the corresponding abilities on Thieves where the issue is rather the energy system coupled with stealth tied to it (as well as the unique stealth of the DE but DE is a flawed concept for PvP in its entirety) than all the direct stealthing abilities.
I'll do some spoiler wrapping for the other points one by one again since I can't seem to keep myself short (and don't want to scare people or make the page take ages of scrolling).
How to solve population balance
Q&A
funny that someone with guard icone would complain about mesmer.
FB right now is the strongest and the easiest build to play in EVERY SINGLE GAMEMODE.
Its busted in pve fractals,dungeons raids, pvp and wvw. as both support,tank and dps.
RIP hammer warrior.
te lazla otstara.
fingers crossed meta ~
I agree, it's nothing that they haven't said said before. I'll wait to see if they actually get anything positive done. Game doesn't need bandaid fixes.
Although, this dev actually sounds like they have a good idea what to do, and has been more specific then past devs who just promised changes were coming.
Yeah funny, because I switched to Guard from Necro most of the time. Have an idea why?
Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]
The player you quoted actually mains necro.
Thank You for the {MEME}
To be fair. I now have ~120 hours on Dragon Hunter. That's almost 5% of Core Necro only. But really, I hate Guardian gameplay.
and btw @Leonidrex.5649 Do you main Skritt based on your avatar?
Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]
Reduce damage, Reduce healing, so nothing will change at all, it will just take longer to do stuff, watch how many Arrow carts get built now, i can see it now, hahaha i kill 50 people with 1 AC because they cant out heal this damage.
Reducing damage and healing at the same time wont change WvW there are far greater issues, like i said previously, WvW in its current state is unsalvageable, every class needs every skill and trait stripped to the core and rebuilt for WvW only, anything that coverts over from PvE will make certain classes still over powered, are they going to be removing the perma invis instant kill classes/skills also???
All i see here is all talk no action, they have had years to fix these issues, and many devs have come and gone from WvW, the harsh reality is, is it worth Anets time to try and fix a game mode that what less than 1% of the playerbase plays now, if you honestly believe real change is coming to WvW i feel you will be disappointed, for the record its 3 1/2 months since the announcement where they said, we cant talk about alliances right now, but will talk to you soon, same story different day.
Don't say what you mean, it will get you in trouble.
I like playing healing. So I wonder how this will impact me.
I think you underestimate how impactful on gameplay that it is. In a situation where you have a low impact of core stats you create a tug o' war where fights either end too quickly (burst) or too slow (heals) as well as alot of scalability issues because without the flat core stats the balance between damage and healing scales far differently. If you have less of both and make the flat core stats more notable you will normalize combat times far more per encounter but also per scale. It will also create more situations where at larger scale some people get dropped but things don't snowball the same way. Fights with alot of damage and healing that trumphs flat stats tend to play out in ways where one side implodes quickly or where a chunk of one sides explodes immidiately and making a comback from there is very difficult so if two sides clash and bomb or push each other current fights are decided in the first push whereas old fights had a back and forth over multiple pushes.
If you look at pirateship tactics today there are often "fake" pushes or feeling opponents out with small bombs and then people commit. Sometimes the small bombs decides the fights because if 5 odd players get caught and die the other side will immidiately snowball from it or the affected side will immidiately pull out and reset. Similar things can be seen among classes where some classes will burst or reset more than in the past (it has always been a thing, but less of a thing before) and there are far more situations today where eg., duels are fought to stand stills and ends undecided.
With flat stats taking a larger role fights will take long but something will always happen, gaining or losing ground, but it also snowballs less so winning ground means less tipping in your favour. As long as damage, healing, boons and control is high then winning ground means more of all of it. If flat stats matters more then that doesn't snowball out as much over multiple players as you, for example, just gain a comparatively larger collective HP pool to wittle.
How to solve population balance
Q&A
Yes, I am a skritt illusionist. Taking over the world. Slowly. Steadly. Nobody sees it coming.
And my masterplan will soon come to fruition, I have manipulated the dragons, corrupted them all, soon will be me time.
Soon.
All skritt will rise.
Soon we will rule all.