Anyone else have seen this?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/93817/big-update-news

Highlights:"We can't have instant cast CC..." - Sword #2?

"...increasing cast time on CCs is something we're very much looking at" - Sword #2?

"...skills that do too many things at once...definitely problematic" - Steal?

It seems that we need to brace for a Sword #2 and Steal related traits (i.e. Thrill of the Crime) nerfs coming soon.

Why? I don’t get it. Why even ask this and risk giving them ideas...

There was no reason to even bring this up other than speculation and to stoke up worries.

@"Sir Vincent III.1286" said:https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/93817/big-update-news

Highlights:"We can't have instant cast CC..." - Sword #2?

"...increasing cast time on CCs is something we're very much looking at" - Sword #2?

"...skills that do too many things at once...definitely problematic" - Steal?

It seems that we need to brace for a Sword #2 and Steal related traits (i.e. Thrill of the Crime) nerfs coming soon.

He says it's about Hard CCs not Soft CCs so Sword#2 is safe.Steal on the other hand....

I think its okay if the profession mechanic does too many things at once. That's kind of like, its purpose.

It feels like steal/swipe as a profession mechanic (mark has a cast time), needs to be instant.But, I must say that loosing the Trickery trait daze on steal would feel reaaaally bad. It's an offensive AND defensive skill, much needed in our arsenal of "active defense".

That being said, yeaaah, I agree there should be a difference between weapon skills and profession mechanic. And traiting steal is part of the whole thing... And traiting for daze is one of the perks.

To be honest, I never really liked those stolen skills tho, but hey... Whatever.

If Steal gets nerfed, I can foresee the flock of players transferring over to revenant. Steal has to be the 'exception' to the rule, it's too core to the thief mechanical identity.

Steal is literally a tele and a unblockable swipe with shorter range tele. Steal needs to be traited to cc or damage so that plus being what the class is actually built around I doubt any major changes will happen to it.

Steal does literally 2 things. Why do you believe that is "too much in one"?

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Steal is literally a tele and a unblockable swipe with shorter range tele. Steal needs to be traited to cc or damage so that plus being what the class is actually built around I doubt any major changes will happen to it.

True. It's unclear if they're talking about the "bare minimum a skill can do" (so about a skill in its base form) or "anything it can do while being maximally traited". I suspect it's the first one, because otherwise it would mean a massive trait/spec overhaul for every class. That wouldn't make much sense.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Psycoprophet.8107" said:Steal is literally a tele and a unblockable swipe with shorter range tele. Steal needs to be traited to cc or damage so that plus being what the class is actually built around I doubt any major changes will happen to it.

Agreed

@"Blocki.4931" said:Steal does literally 2 things. Why do you believe that is "too much in one"?

Sadly, steal is a CC, ranged, instant, teleport, remove boons, grant boons, a bundle skill, condi damage and power damage (albeit no critical) and heals.Plus swipe is everything above unblockable, despite half the range.

I don't really believe they were talking about steal there, but it's undeniable that the hat fits.

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Steal does literally 2 things. Why do you believe that is "too much in one"?

You forget that it resets skill CDs ^^

Unless triated for steal is a teleport. Trickery line and a few others allow its multiple applications. What cc does steal do without slight of hand or especially if trickery line isnt taken? Gues it can fear lol

Steal is OP cuz you have to dedicate an entire traitline (and then some - see Trickery + Deadly Arts GM trait) to make it useful. Lel.

@Curennos.9307 said:Steal is OP cuz you have to dedicate an entire traitline (and then some - see Trickery + Deadly Arts GM trait) to make it useful. Lel.

Exactly lolIt's basically a glorified teleport that u can build for meaning ur losing out on other traits just to make it useful which is text book op lol

@SoulSin.5682 said:

@"Blocki.4931" said:Steal does literally 2 things. Why do you believe that is "too much in one"?

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1115640/#Comment_1115640

Steal doesn't do it by itself, the traits do it. So the solution here is tooo.... what, rework any trait that impacts steal? :D

Here is the thing when it comes to other classes as compared to thief.

Damage type traits/skills can be separated far more easily from CC on the other professions due to cooldown. An interrupt skill might not do a lot of damage but it still interrupts without affecting your damage type skills.

On thief this entirely different. Since all the thief skills share a common INI pool , using one of those CC types skills will affect damage out as it takes INI away from that damaging skill. What can end up happening and most likely will is the discrepancy so great between the types of skills (damage versus CC) that more spam occurs. A warrior chaining three types of CC together each doing little to no damage can follow it up with his single big hit damage type skill. A thief just can not do that as the thief would not have the INI left for that damage skill. P/P is an example of what I mean wherein the thief tends to always want to use Unload as the other skills generally do not provide enough for INI spent. In order for this to work on thief there going to have to be significant boosts to the #1 skills OR the ini pool enhanced. The problem then becomes if there more INI why not just use another "unload" over a headshot?

I think this going to be more difficult then it appears and especially with thief design.

@babazhook.6805 said:A warrior chaining three types of CC together each doing little to no damage can follow it up with his single big hit damage type skill. A thief just can not do that as the thief would not have the INI left for that damage skill.

I disagree with this statement since it is not necessarily true. This response from the Devs originates from the issue of the Thief dealing a lot of damage from poison while applying instant cast CC (immob) from Sword #2 traited with Panic Strike. So it's not really difficult to understand what the Dev is talking about even without giving specifics.

The problem is, the Devs are the ones who created this problem by adding Poison to Panic Strike that nobody, literally nobody asked for. Sword #2 was never an issue because it deals mediocre damage as a compensation for the instant CC -- which it should be. Now by giving it a way to deal a lot of damage through conditions, we are now facing a problem, that to be honest is really simple to solve.

The solution to this, as I've mentioned before, is to change Panic Strike to only apply poison if the target is below 50% health which will also share the 20s ICD with Immob. Problem solved. The current iteration of Panic Strike is causing to much problem since it affects, not only Sword #2, but also kneeling Rifle #2 and Binding Shadowsm which are already too powerful as they are.

So if the Devs wants to do the right thing, I believe that my solution is the reasonable one. Then they can roll back the nerf to Deadly Ambition. Their current solutions are moronic at the very least since they are creating more problems to address a simple problem.

Problem is they won’t roll back nerfs at all.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@"babazhook.6805" said:A warrior chaining three types of CC together each doing little to no damage can follow it up with his single big hit damage type skill. A thief just can not do that as the thief would not have the INI left for that damage skill.

Prior to that add of poison to Panic strike, s/x was rarely used as a condition build. The reason they started to use it was because the INI spent on #2 could now do damage which was competitive with INI spent on flanking strike for damage (damage is damage and people will always seek to do damage in their builds whether it condition or power) I am not arguing that this add to panic strike was a good thing, I am pointing out that what made the build usable was being able to do more damage per ini spent with that add to panic strike.

In a thief build peeling away "too many things happening" with a given skill only means that skill will not get used as there no longer ENOUGH happening wherein the thief willing to give up his damage skills for it.

take d/p as example. It has a port , a blind and nice damage all in one skill. This costs 4 ini. That a reasonable expenditure of 4 ini. Now lets remove the damage and or port because "one skill is doing too much". That INI is now too much to spend on the skill. 4 Ini for a port to is just too much. You port to someone and then what? You have enough INI for one attack (doing less damage ) Now people certainly use INI just to port on Infiltrators with SB but 9 times out of ten that to escape and not to close and fight because you need INI to fight.

The fact that all thief skills outside the #1 share a common INI pool means that lowering the damage out of those skills and cutting down on skills that do too much wherein the choice becomes as defined "either do damage or do a CC" will result in there really being no choice because if you do CC you get less damage and with damage being lowered as well you need more INI for that damage. This means there will be a lot more reliance on the #1 skills.

@babazhook.6805 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@babazhook.6805 said:A warrior chaining three types of CC together each doing little to no damage can follow it up with his single big hit damage type skill. A thief just can not do that as the thief would not have the INI left for that damage skill.

The problem is not the damage per init, the problem is Panic Strike is granting a large amount of damage when you use a CC and it's not just Sword #2. If the Dev decides to keep the damage, Sword #2 will get nerfed with higher Init cost, which will bring us back to where the damage is not worth the cost. In my opinion, that is not the right course of action. That will further ruin the weapon sets that is already the most expensive weapon sets the Thief could have.

If the damage of the Sword #2 without the poison from Panic Strike was not worth the init cost, the solution is to lower the cost, not add damage. Power creep is what's brought us here and the Dev is going to make the biggest mistake yet if they decided to nerf Sword #2, Steal, or the whole Trickery line.

In a thief build peeling away "too many things happening" with a given skill only means that skill will not get used as there no longer ENOUGH happening wherein the thief willing to give up his damage skills for it.

There's too many things happening on Steal which reflects the amount of time (very little) they have spent on the Thief. To be honest, I would be ok with Thrill of the Crime, for example, triggering on Stolen Item use. This way, we can benefit from it multiple times when built properly and taking Improv will actually mean something.

take d/p as example. It has a port , a blind and nice damage all in one skill. This costs 4 ini. That a reasonable expenditure of 4 ini. Now lets remove the damage and or port because "one skill is doing too much". That INI is now too much to spend on the skill. 4 Ini for a port to is just too much. You port to someone and then what? You have enough INI for one attack (doing less damage ) Now people certainly use INI just to port on Infiltrators with SB but 9 times out of ten that to escape and not to close and fight because you need INI to fight.

What's happening with Shadow Shot will not be considered as "too much".

I'm pretty sure they are talking about Steal where you can;

• port
• gain init,
• daze
• torment on interrupt
• poison
• weakness
• vulnerability
• gain might
• fury
• swiftness
• heal
• and deal damage

That is the definition of too much and that's just one build. Now I agree that it is too much happening in one skill and I would like to see those spread out to other skills. I hate the fact that we have to rely on Steal to get those buff.

As I mentioned, they can start by triggering Thrill when using a Stolen item. Mug will stay with steal. Then maybe Serpent Touch can trigger on Stealth Attacks or weapon skills that cost 5 init or more. Applying poison using Cloak and Dagger makes more sense than applying poison while stealing. Some of the traits makes no sense triggering on steal like Daze on Sleight of Hands. Sure the trait should lower the Steal CD, but daze? They should just add the Daze to Mug and remove the damage and increase the heal. Then make Dagger Training to add +120/+240 so if you want damage, you should take DT. If you want control, take Mug. If you want condition damage, take Deadly Ambition.

The fact that all thief skills outside the #1 share a common INI pool means that lowering the damage out of those skills and cutting down on skills that do too much wherein the choice becomes as defined "either do damage or do a CC" will result in there really being no choice because if you do CC you get less damage and with damage being lowered as well you need more INI for that damage. This means there will be a lot more reliance on the #1 skills.

As I've always said here, they need to lower the cost of weapon set proportionate to the amount of initiatives in our bar. S/P for example should not have a total cost of 20 init to use all skills. This leads to spamming the same skill, Pistol Whip, because there's no other skills that is worth using. Pistol Whip should not cost 5 and Black Powder should definitely not cost 6.

Initiative, by definition, should only be spent one time to initiative combat. This will allow the Thief to combo skills if the cost are cheaper. Once spent, the weapon skills will costs cooldown. For instance, you can spend all your initiative by spamming HS, but once the Initiatives are spent, HS will now go on a 6s CD. All other skills, whether used or not, will have their own CDs. This method will also solve the issue of swapping weapons since the skills on your off-set will be available even without Initiatives. Whether they are willing to do this or not, it will show if they are really have the conviction to really fix the game, or they will just continue the same lazy approach to everything and pretend that they care. I guess, we'll see. So far, I am not impress with the changes they've made and it affects the time I spend playing this game.

I do use rifle in a DE condi build, but given the choice of nerfing panic strike or sword 2 I'd sooner see changes to panic strike with some compensation given to pistol 2 to even out the condi side of things. Currently I don't see a reason to run hybrid over a trailblazer/rabid/viper mix as the toughness is greater value imo, so this would be a healthy change if we're looking to limit power/introduce more counterplay to stuff.

Honestly thief needs a weapon kit overhaul that decreases the spammy nature of the class and its mechanic obviously by devs that know what their doing.Pistol whip build for example since it's in the spot light recently could use a rework.If headshot cost was slightly increased and the stun increased to 3/4 sec, stun removed from pistol whip the thief would have to use headshot than pistol whip to stun then get the flurry of strikes off. So than porting in quickly before or after headshot followed by pistol whip would be 3 different skills used in synergy with each other to get the burst off. The thief could spam pistol whip still for the evades since its squishy but won't have a stun attached to the skill. With the increased cost of headshot the skill wouldn't be spamable unless u wanna just perma stun and do barely any other damage.I find a lot of the thiefs weapon kits are designed in a way a few skills are spammed and the rest are only used in niche circumstances.

I'm so happy BDO lifted their restrictions for Baltic state countries.

@Dave.6819 said:I'm so happy BDO lifted their restrictions for Baltic state countries.

Yeah I'm addicted to that damn vid lately