Death magic it doesn't just work

Been testing it out, and i wasn't able to get it to work at times due to lack of stacks to protect me to prevent me from being killed before i could possibly outplay them, because if you get 1 bleed off and a enemy teleports to you, it thus prevents counterplay and you get stunned knocked back and crippled.

When you don't, it works kinda, as i was able to fight for quite a bit a warrior, who i had arguably a better chance against.

I did bring also a golem pet and wurm of course because arguably that would be my best chance with cripple from golem and teleport from wurm.

This is the drawback of the death carapace mechanism. It can truly show it's strength in large scale fight but you'll struggle to make it work well in small scale fight (and especially in 1v1. The necromancer have never been good at dueling and the change to DM didn't change this in any way.

Even if you give it an overpowered potential, a flawed design is still a flawed design. In this case, it's the concept of the necromancer becoming gradually stronger as the fight goes on. ANet tried it again and again over the years of balance and it always ended up with relatively poor result where it matter and OP result where it's not needed.

The only method Death Magic provides against burst is Unholy Sanctuary, but that leaves you in a precarious position to be easily finished off by auto-attacks when you leave Shroud. I guess Dark Defiance helps in bursts that involve a hard CC, but it's not great.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:The only method Death Magic provides against burst is Unholy Sanctuary, but that leaves you in a precarious position to be easily finished off by auto-attacks when you leave Shroud. I guess Dark Defiance helps in bursts that involve a hard CC, but it's not great.

If Unholy Sanctuary gave full shroud would be decent.

meh, you're better off using curses 221. weakness is king.

I would be interested in seeing your gameplay... PM me if you have footage.

Wurm is ok but dont take golem if you have the option not to. Especially if running reaper or scourge use chill to the bone or ghastly breech. Technically speaking even Lich and P.Lands offer better options than golem right now.

Golem is an elite but an AI that dies in a few hits from anything.You will never land its hardest hitting part of the charge on a enemy playerFor an elite the knockdown its low duration.The moment you summon it you either use it or lose it

Deathmagic wont negate direct focus regardless of how big or small the fight is once someone really starts to focus you in a fight you are gonna die unless one of two things happens.1 Your foes make too many mistakes allowing you to punish them. (boon corrupts, fears, etc)2 Your team watches your back and peels or supports for you.

Generally speaking dont take death-magic unless you are planning on going in as core necromancer other wise the loss is not worth the gain.As reaper any form of damage loss means you lose your threatening presence in melee range which is your best defense in the meta right now.As scourge you give up shade skill recharge or you give up damage you are just a walking player with visuals happening around you.

Keep in mind with the mini game they added to Death magic if you opt to take C.Fervor its still dependent on your ability to attack. This means if you are cc'ed alot you are just as worse off as if you had not taken death magic to start with. Shrouded removal can help you avoid this to some extent but still.

The last reason way death magic is kind of iffy is because its all based around toughness and has no physical % reduction when it comes to damage, it adds no boons to necromancer like vigor or stability. Ideally it just does nothing other than bonus toughness. The value of toughness questionable right now because damage in general is just too high. When anet scales back damage and boons a bit deathmagic might be more viable as a real means of necormancer sustain and defense. Only at that time will necormancer be able to once again depend on its damage soaker play style.

@ZDragon.3046 said:Wurm is ok but dont take golem if you have the option not to. Especially if running reaper or scourge use chill to the bone or ghastly breech. Technically speaking even Lich and P.Lands offer better options than golem right now.

Golem is an elite but an AI that dies in a few hits from anything.You will never land its hardest hitting part of the charge on a enemy playerFor an elite the knockdown its low duration.The moment you summon it you either use it or lose it

Deathmagic wont negate direct focus regardless of how big or small the fight is once someone really starts to focus you in a fight you are gonna die unless one of two things happens.1 Your foes make too many mistakes allowing you to punish them. (boon corrupts, fears, etc)2 Your team watches your back and peels or supports for you.

Generally speaking dont take death-magic unless you are planning on going in as core necromancer other wise the loss is not worth the gain.As reaper any form of damage loss means you lose your threatening presence in melee range which is your best defense in the meta right now.As scourge you give up shade skill recharge or you give up damage you are just a walking player with visuals happening around you.

Keep in mind with the mini game they added to Death magic if you opt to take C.Fervor its still dependent on your ability to attack. This means if you are cc'ed alot you are just as worse off as if you had not taken death magic to start with. Shrouded removal can help you avoid this to some extent but still.

The last reason way death magic is kind of iffy is because it's all based around toughness and has no physical % reduction when it comes to damage, it adds no boons to necromancers like vigor or stability. Ideally, it just does nothing other than bonus toughness. The value of toughness questionable right now because damage, in general, is just too high. When anet scales back damage and boons a bit death magic might be more viable as a real means of necromancer sustain and defense. Only at that time will necromancer be able to once again depend on its damage soaker play style.

The reason I take it is that I am taking core because I wanted to play a boon corrupt necro for the fun of it.

I came to necromancer first and foremost because I wanted to play a necromancer type class.

Don't get me started on Death Magic's fake rework, again. It solved nothing.

I can agree with this. In a large scale fight, I can get it up to those 30 stacks and, if I use the Corsair Sharpening Stone and take the Deadly Strength trait, I can get Power up to about 3800-4000. Briefly it drops fast.

However, tried it soloing (Reaper and Power Scourge) and, nope, not worth it at all. You don't get enough stacks, and the stacks you do don't come quickly enough.

Once again, Anet has shown that, in WvW or PVP, the necro is strictly made for group play, and has little to no sustainability in 1v1. Unless you get lucky and you are slightly better than the person you are fighting...and they are also a necro. Heaven help you if you face a Deadeye, Soulbeast, Dragonhunter, Mesmer, Spellbreaker, Daredevil, Scrapper, or pretty much anything else.

The biggest issue is the illusion of choice here. carapace as the defensive concept is fine, how its applied is not. The only realy reliable manner is with causing a lot of conditions, which only works for condi builds. They need to glue this mechanic to more concepts of the necromancer (boon corrupting, condition transfering). Also the GMs are an illusion. nobody in a competetive Gamemode will pick the Minion GM. Unholy Sanctuary is just bad. The healing part is a nonfactor. and the last resort shroud is way too gimicky to make a difference.

This trait needs to give at least 50% lifeforce when it triggers as well as resetting all shroud cooldowns when it triggers. Also change the healing aspect to "per second in shroud all non shroud skill gain -1 cooldown per second"

As an after thought, I think the main issue of the Death magic traitline is that the concept/mechanisms that this traitline try to use are to exclusive to the traitline. Be it minions or death carapace, these are e-specs material that need the full support of an e-spec to work.

Minion traits would work if we had a minion generating factory instead of a shroud or in built minion generation on our weapon skill kit. Death carapace would work if all minor traits of an e-spec traitline were designed to generate death carapace stacks with no additionnal trait outside of the minor generating stacks. Another thing that ANet turn a blind eye on is that "on death" effects have little value outside of zerg fights (be it open world or WvW).

The whole death magic traitline is and have always been a mess. Death carapace just add to this mess under the cover of smoothing things around the edges. The mistake that ANet does with this traitline is that ANet force the use of poorly integrated mechanisms as a necessary medium for the traitline to work.

Right now, in order to make DM work properly without having to create e-specs ANet would have to shuffle quite a few traits effects:

Minor:

• Armor shroud would need to be replaced by Flesh of the master: gain carapace for each minion you control. Summon a shambling horror whenever you gain life force (ICD 4-5s).
• Soul comprehension would need to be replaced by infuse condition: Transfer conditions on you to your minions. Gain carapace whenever that happen.
• Beyond the veil would need to be replaced by Corruptor fervor: Inflicting a condition on a foe grant carapace.

Adept:

• Flesh of the master is replaced by Armored shroud
• Putrid defense: no change
• Shrouded removal: no change

Master:

• Necromantic corruption is replaced by Soul comprehension: Carapace also grant vitality. Carapace last longer.
• Dark defiance: no change
• Deadly strength: no change

Grandmaster:

• Death nova: Flesh of the master now summon a jagged horror instead of a shambling horror. When you or one of your minion is downed create a poison nova.
• Corruptor fervor replaced by Beyond the veil: take reduced condition damage while at or beyond the carapace treshold (10). Gain pulsing protection while at or beyond the carapace treshold (25).
• Unholy sanctuary: (I don't like this trait but...) no change

A good way to generate carapace is using Spectral Walk, and going into shroud with Shourded Removal. You'll cleanse a million condis (such that you can tank condi mesmers, or anything really). On top of that, you'll get carapace from Plague Sending in Curses... So right there is lots of potential to stack even you in a 1v1 if they have at least some condis. Can also get a few from crits - > bleeds from Barbed Precision (not as good with Carrion or the dumb new life steal locust swarm... but still). And 3 stacks from Weakening Shroud with weakness, bleed, 1 corrupt....

It works well when fighting groups and is harder in 1v1s but there's still potential there.

@MethaneGas.8357 said:You can also use Locust Swarm before going into shroud for more stax from Corruptor's Fervor because of cripple.Locust Swarm doesn't do that anymore. Just does the siphon hits that can't crit.

@Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:

@MethaneGas.8357 said:You can also use Locust Swarm before going into shroud for more stax from Corruptor's Fervor because of cripple.Locust Swarm doesn't do that anymore. Just does the siphon hits that can't crit.

Doesn't it apply cripple - > corruptor's fervor - > carapace? :#

Edit: wait.... It doesn't cause cripple anymore?! :o :o :o :open_mouth:

Edit 2: omfg you're right............

Edit 3: hyperventilating

@"MethaneGas.8357" said:Doesn't it apply cripple - > corruptor's fervor - > carapace? :#

Edit: wait.... It doesn't cause cripple anymore?! :o :o :o :open_mouth:

Edit 2: kitten you're right............

Edit 3: hyperventilating

Yep, Locust swarm received what ANet consider a "buff". Which is why I'm now always deadset on not having any change on the necromancer's weapon skill.

• No longer cripple, because ANet thought that there was more than enough cripple on scourge (now nerfed to the ground) and the issue with the skill as a mobility skill was the cripple instead of the dumb fact that it put the necromancer in combat.
• Tic faster on a shorter time frame when the necromancer's survivability was instead benefiting from the fact that it was ticking slowly over a "long" time.
• And the change of direct damage into life siphon that effectively removed every possibility for this skill to proc on hit/crit effects because ANet probably thought that it would be to much life siphoned if someone were to take blood magic.

They wanted to confirm locust swarm as a "sustain" skill by strengthening the "sustain" in a necromancer like manner and a skill that already wasn't impressive ended up even less effective.

Unfortunately ANet's balance lack wisdom. Most of the change they make are smart and work toward the goal that they picture, however this goal that they picture tend to be "narrow" and shortsighted.

I've been trying core necro lately w/Death Magic.

Why is there no on-dodge trait? Necro has 2 dodges and no vigor. They could make it give you 30 stacks instantly per dodge and it would still be balanced. So tired of all these relatively worthless 'on kill' traits. Extra LF gain is nice, yeah. But the heck do I need carapace for if my opponent is dead?

The issue seems to be that very few of the traits apply when you need them. Having 30 stacks of Carapace and however much toughness that gives you, plus pulsing Protection, is goddamn amazing. Unfortunately, it'll only ever happen if your team is dogpiling enemies who have no chance of hitting back - otherwise, your opponents evade too much and CC you too much for you to ever land enough condis to get those benefits. And when you DO need that stuff because you're getting pummeled...you won't have them because you're bouncing around like a ping pong ball and can't put out condis to build stacks.

Also, please. Please ;^; Please make the minion traits the option rather than a 'we murdered something useful to shoehorn minions in'.

The obvious solution seems to be lowering the stacks you can have, but upping the benefit of each stack and making them last longer. Ofc this is a band-aid/cop-out that'll just turn the traitline into effectively a 'get some passive benefits', but at the very least it would kinda work a bit better. Maybe. It would be great if anet put more work into durations and the benefit of each carapace stack tho, to hit that sweet spot of giving the traitline's defense a ramp-up time so defenses are up in time for the burst, then wind down, then ramp up in time to actually work, etc. As it is, against one player there's probably no way in hell you're reaching 25 stacks to get Prot.

TLDR it really feels like anet vomited out the numbers for this without putting much into it. 600 toughness at max stacks is a LOT and would be super strong if you could ever actually make use of it. I would rather more consistency in traits - less toughness, but easier to reach and manage, etc.

Arenanet separated DM's toughness from equipment stat's. For a trait line rework, that was abyssimal.

To use DM for anything other than casual MM, Arenanet would have to severely nerf sustain from SR and shroud.

@Anchoku.8142 said:Arenanet separated DM's toughness from equipment stat's. For a trait line rework, that was abyssimal.

To use DM for anything other than casual MM, Arenanet would have to severely nerf sustain from SR and shroud.

They can't because it would actively harm necro sustain and make them far too glassy to survive. In SPVP they are already too glassy as is due to how hard enemies hit and lack of viable prot limited stab and limited mobility. Anymore nerfs would kill necro, and you might as well just delete necromancer.

That might be possible IF:

Damage and CC spam was nerfed to manageable levels from all classes so 1 shot kill builds and cc spam wasn't so overkill.

And even then, they would have to be compensated with something such as having outside of shroud a viable defense such as buffing massively our death carapace traits.´

Look at for instance scourge with the nerf and what happened when their defenses got nerfed. They can either give a barrier to others or to themselves is a nerf to sustain, and it made them free kills, and reaper shroud already has a 10 second CD. Reaper already doesn't camp it, and it gets burst down fairly fast because of the huge amount of damage everyone does combine with huge amounts of might gen, and you want to make necros free food on reaper too with zero compensation?

death magic + minions carried me from Silver T2 to Gold T3 on last season, but its stops shinning when enemy individual perfomances increase. In other words, Death Magic had a great potential to be a carry spec, but need more.

@Curennos.9307 said:The issue seems to be that very few of the traits apply when you need them. Having 30 stacks of Carapace and however much toughness that gives you, plus pulsing Protection, is kitten amazing. Unfortunately, it'll only ever happen if your team is dogpiling enemies who have no chance of hitting back - otherwise, your opponents evade too much and CC you too much for you to ever land enough condis to get those benefits. And when you DO need that stuff because you're getting pummeled...you won't have them because you're bouncing around like a ping pong ball and can't put out condis to build stacks.

Exactly my experience.

In terms of functionality DM is a mass pvp (zerg fights) and pve trait. Stacking carapace is only efficient and effective if you have multiple targets.

Problem: You don't need it in mass pvp (zerg fights) since your support applies protection and other damage mitigation and you don't need it in pve since all you need there is damage and two dodges.

ANet created a self-sustain traitline for game modes where you don't need to apply self-sustain. That sums up the uselessness of DM.

DM is pretty much only useful in comfortably soloing champions. I template shift away from it with ever group i go into for open world metas, fractals and raids.The soloing ability of Reapers is just far better compared to the nailbiter experience of herald revs, whom i find far more fragile.

@"LucianDK.8615" said:DM is pretty much only useful in comfortably soloing champions.Spite / BM / ReaperSignet of Vampirism (traited)BM healing traitsSoul Eater

if necessary: mainhand dagger as second weapon set for the dagger 2 healif necessary: signet of the locust (traited) as another healing sourceif the defense is still too low: some toughness gear

something like this:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwEECNsMCGG7glwKxRWyrZD-e

Better damage and sustain ratio than any DM build.

@KrHome.1920 said:

@LucianDK.8615 said:DM is pretty much only useful in comfortably soloing champions. I template shift away from it with ever group i go into for open world metas, fractals and raids.The soloing ability of Reapers is just far better compared to the nailbiter experience of herald revs, whom i find far more fragile.Spite / BM / ReaperSignet of Vampirism (traited)BM healing traitsSoul Eater

Ill have to check it out, though a minionmaster build as I use DM for have a lot of extra bodies to help distract enemies. Though I do use Soul Eater there.