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Fire Weaver..

TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

While there's not many of them. When you do see them. They almost always have insane sustain. Only difference is now if you miss dodging their burn. They can do 30k burn in 2 seconds with fire signet. Seriously can we split that 30k burn over 8 seconds?

What this means is that you can't kill him but he can kill you. I get that eles haven't been so powerful in pvp. But it's seriously over tuned.

Comments

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Fire Signet?

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    Do you mean the glyph?
    It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @reikken.4961 said:
    Do you mean the glyph?
    It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

    Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot. Was knocked down. And died before I could get back up. So no it's not 4700 dmg. It was used in one of the ATs a few months ago. I think you are not looking at the right build.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    Do you mean the glyph?
    It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

    Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot.

    death recap includes damage taken in downed state

    Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:
    Do you mean the glyph?
    It's 5 stacks of burn. Even at 15 might and with Weave Self's condi damage buff, that's 4700 damage over 2 seconds.

    Not what my death screen says. Says 32k burn. And I basically was 1 shot.

    death recap includes damage taken in downed state

    While I basically just switch class to an anti condo class/build. It really deletes a whole pool of other specs like mesmers, sb warriors and classes with little cleanse. The whole concept is over tuned.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

    shrug. that's par for the course. being able to kill someone who's CC'd for 2 seconds is extremely common. Spellbreaker does it too, for example. Is it too much damage? Maybe. But most classes can do it.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    Besides the point... I was one shot in 2 seconds to a build that can bunker 2 people.

    shrug. that's par for the course. being able to kill someone who's CC'd for 2 seconds is extremely common. Spellbreaker does it too, for example. Is it too much damage? Maybe. But most classes can do it.

    No. But a spell breaker has to land bulls charge one time to kill you if it misses it's on a big cool down. Even if you stun break a Weaver can burn you while being able to evade block and project neg.

    Sp also has far limited sustain unlike Weaver. With Weaver you can reapply burn over and over. With evade, invun, block, projectile neg.

    The only way to kill a Weaver is to have burst dmg but that in it self is flawed since once a Weaver dodged the burst. The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    Anyway you are obv a Weaver main. So there's that.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    This looks like your problem
    weaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

  • @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    This looks like your problem
    weaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

    This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    There's no way a fire Weaver one shot u. It's damage is condi and even though burn melts quickly, you still have 1-3 sec to cleanse it. The best a fire Weaver can do is hammer you down with condis.

    Sword is a defensive weapon. It's supposed to be hard to kill. Fire Weaver specs in healing power. It's supposed to have good sustain. It doesn't have more sustain than holo or spellbreaker. They all can stun and kill you in seconds. The best tactic is to stun break and evade.

    Fire Weaver is gonna get nerfed. I'm just hoping Anet nerfs it's damage and not survivability. It's the only defensive weapon ele has.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    This looks like your problem
    weaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

    This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

    Na not really. Zero problems vs reaper on any class. The problem with Weaver is that it can stand on node and you can't kill it.

    How laughable....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stallic.2397 said:
    There's no way a fire Weaver one shot u. It's damage is condi and even though burn melts quickly, you still have 1-3 sec to cleanse it. The best a fire Weaver can do is hammer you down with condis.

    Sword is a defensive weapon. It's supposed to be hard to kill. Fire Weaver specs in healing power. It's supposed to have good sustain. It doesn't have more sustain than holo or spellbreaker. They all can stun and kill you in seconds. The best tactic is to stun break and evade.

    Fire Weaver is gonna get nerfed. I'm just hoping Anet nerfs it's damage and not survivability. It's the only defensive weapon ele has.

    Pretty sure it did. Within 2 seconds. It's not the exact meta build.

    Yeah i could have cleansed. But didn't expect to die within 2 seconds. Was going to wait till it stacks before I cleanse cos it would just reapply.

    Either way. I m ok with 2 second kill burst if it didn't have sustain. And I am ok with sustain if it didn't have that massive burst.

    It definitely has more sustain than Holo and spell breaker. This build completely stomps sb.

  • @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    This looks like your problem
    weaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

    Ah yes, kite vs a Fire Weaver when they hold the point and you're spamming ranged attacks on them for no reason.

    RotatingIsNotMeta

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Ah yes, kite vs a Fire Weaver when they hold the point and you're spamming ranged attacks on them for no reason.

    kiting does not just mean ranged attacks. spellbreaker, herald, and holosmith are melee but all kite weavers. What I mean is you only stand in melee while you're bursting. Spellbreakers don't stand in melee and autoattack with greatsword when the big damage skills are on cooldown.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.
    First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"
    There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.
    Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.
    Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

    The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

    You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.
    In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

    Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.
    Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

    Idk man, I've gotten the jump on people and melted them in the 2-3 second range. That's against unaware generally poor players on something squishy but it is possible to melt some faces in a couple seconds on fire weaver and its happens fairly often for me. Just a l2p issue on their part but I just feel like you were over stating its near impossible to kill that fast but it's not if you catch them with their pants down.

    It definitely is mainly a l2p issue. Yes, fire weaver can burst hard against players without CDs, being unaware or just really slow. But in 2s, many classes can do the same. Pyro vortex is the same like Thousand blades, Gust is as telegraphed (and not an evade) like Bull's charge (and has a longer CD, and no damage...).

    The key is: disengage, when they have the Glyph. If you are low on condi cleanse, then also during fire attunement+ Primordial stance.

    Attack when neither is up and they switch to fire. The only defense then is potentially earth, when they come from there (long CD though). If they come from air or water, they only have ToF, which has a very long CD and only lasts 1s, while they cannot change attunements to something defensive for full 4s.

    Now I do agree fire weaver is a little problematic. Fire is a purely offensive traitline and gives too much sustain for that - not to power damage, mind you, but the cleanses are too much. It basically has the same personaly cleanses liek water weaver! In my view, giving Sunspot an ICD and/or reducing the cleanses from Transmute fire aura should do the trick. And change glyph to something less bursty, making the whole spec more stretched out DPS based. This way, the spec would be vulnerable to conditions and had a clear weakness next to poor mobility and low disengage/kite potential.

    Once people figure out it's counters and the overall meta changes, things for fire weaver will change. For a long time, people had to stack condi cleanses against scourge, condi mirage and thief. Fire weaver couldn't do much back then. Since they got nerfed, fire weaver has become strong without major changes. It's just that many viable builds focus on close combat and few cleanses, that is why minor adjustments to fire weaver are probably justified.

  • Don Vega Van Kain.9842Don Vega Van Kain.9842 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    @Alatar.7364 said:
    There's not many of them?

    Many people have a complex with the elementalist, they believe that if they say that such build or such build is op or they're more and more fire weaver's in pvp, people will laugh at them and treat them as noob.

    A complex that started just after the fall of tempest in pvp.

    A fire weaver, have a good sustain and evads, very good damages and basiclly not much mobility.

    Depending of what i play (and of course the lvl of my opponant) i can beat him or not. With many classes when i saw a fire weaver in a node i just walk away to +1 in the others.

    Of course, with a +1, he died.

    And Btw, every night, 7/10 of my matches, i have a fire weaver or two. ;)

    Troll since 1988.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2019

    Beh, the biggest issue is how Twist of Fate has ammo, you reduce the cooldown to 20 seconds and take away the ammo, this would easily keep the consistency of the skill while making it less of a crutch compared the other options. Because there is other options that are good but not preferred because in the heat of the fight people have a higher chance of surviving with two of those casts rather than waiting for one, combined with all the rest of evades it's just annoying and stretches the fight unnecessarily forever even if you're dominating it, just like a P/W Thief.

    Fact being, people use that skill like Invulnerable frames and not really like an evade, I've seen so many Weavers, even the best just run into wards over and over again with them, quite funny.

    This mostly adds value to Obsidian Flesh since, whether you fight S/D or S/F. Weavers still have the same utility that mostly makes their damage relevant, hence why S/D Weavers are rarer.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @TorQ.7041 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @reikken.4961 said:

    @TorQ.7041 said:
    The Weaver can then stick on the target and it's sustain burn will kill it.

    This looks like your problem
    weaver is the easiest class in the game to kite. weaver has only one gap closer, and it's locked to air (which has low damage on condi build). As long as you cleanse glyph burst (25s cooldown) (or evade it. evaded hits still consume the charges) and kite properly, it's a manageable fight.

    This 100%. People who die easily to fireweavers are likely the people who die easily to reaper shroud. Dont stand next to them and they cant do any damage.

    Na not really. Zero problems vs reaper on any class. The problem with Weaver is that it can stand on node and you can't kill it.

    If you are capable of avoiding reaper shroud you should be capable of avoiding fireweavers burst. You are contradicting yourself by saying that weavers can stick to their targets and wear them down, and also saying that the problem with weaver is they can stand on a node and not die. There are a lot of things that could be considered op about fireweaver, and neither of those is one of them.

    Fireweaver is an mainly an issue because of their strong aoe burst, and low cooldowns on powerful offensive and defensive skills. They are very weak to cc and kiting, but can recover quite easily if you dont know how to watch their skills and plan your cc.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That's the hard point, to get a feeling against weavers it can take a long time

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did you know you can best fire weaver using this one weird trick? Don't stand next to them. Hehe. No really just kite them out until they're out of primordial stances and stability.

  • Literally just walk away LOOOOOOL

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.
    First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"
    There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.
    Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.
    Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

    The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

    You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.
    In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

    Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.
    Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

    Ah yes the famous ele main. Yes you totally embarrassed me. I am so embarrassed.

    Of course you would come to defend. Against bad players sure. I watched you on ATs stand on node on semi finals vs 2 players for extended periods of time. They bad players?

    Yeah I pretty much got knocked down and the moment I got back up I was downed. So yes hard to me.

    I now don't bother playing warrior. I play another class to specifically kill people who play this build when I see it. It that does t change the fact that this build cancer when played correctly is Superior to sb, mirage, fb and pretty much every other duelist build apart from 1. Having that much sustain with that much burn damage that can be consistently reapplied is unbalanced.

    People complain about fb. But fb is completely balanced. Their window of when you can burst is long. While a Weaver's window is now.

    But hey defend your cancer build.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Did you know you can best fire weaver using this one weird trick? Don't stand next to them. Hehe. No really just kite them out until they're out of primordial stances and stability.

    As much as I hate abandoning a node to something I'm not smart enough to kill efficiently, rotating is the only consistent answer I've found. Chances are the weaver will get bored jerking off at far by themselves, and will try to find fights, at which point if you have any sort of mobility skills and situational awareness you can begin the process of outrotating them. If they keep camping your home to feed on bads that trickle out of spawn to try to take it back, you're out of luck unless you can win fights alone against the other team.

    The problem with this is that on certain maps, a smart or experienced weaver could probably move between fights efficiently enough to bring its cancerous level of burn/evade/sustain everywhere it matters. I haven't seen it happen yet, but then again I haven't seen Grimjack since I stopped playing ranked, so I'm sure it can be done on some of the tighter maps.

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    Did you know you can best fire weaver using this one weird trick? Don't stand next to them. Hehe. No really just kite them out until they're out of primordial stances and stability.

    As much as I hate abandoning a node to something I'm not smart enough to kill efficiently, rotating is the only consistent answer I've found. Chances are the weaver will get bored jerking off at far by themselves, and will try to find fights, at which point if you have any sort of mobility skills and situational awareness you can begin the process of outrotating them. If they keep camping your home to feed on bads that trickle out of spawn to try to take it back, you're out of luck unless you can win fights alone against the other team.

    The problem with this is that on certain maps, a smart or experienced weaver could probably move between fights efficiently enough to bring its cancerous level of burn/evade/sustain everywhere it matters. I haven't seen it happen yet, but then again I haven't seen Grimjack since I stopped playing ranked, so I'm sure it can be done on some of the tighter maps.

    That's the thing. It's ridiculous to have some thing you need 2 people to beat and has the ability to force 1v1 off node. All these commenters saying just don't stand next to him. No kitten Sherlock. But if you don't stand next to node you lose it.

    I am hating these games right now with Weaver 2xfb. Weaver camps stalls fb stands in middle. No body kills anything and they eventually win because geniuses don't stand next to them, seriously ridiculous comment.

    The only other viable option right now is to play anti condi bunker or basically pure glass to smash them in 1 hit. Build diversity deleted. I rather they bring CI condi mes back. While diffcult at least you know there is a good window in killing them.

  • ROMANG.1903ROMANG.1903 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Mesmer isn't op. I ve been writing hate against mesmers for a long time but I actually believe it's in a good spot right now. Been able to kill mesmers but they have also been able to kill me.

    After the axe nerf and the ci nerf etc. We now have enough time to see and react before their condi kills you. Where as before there was so much condi dmg n interrupt as well as reapplication. you are basically dead even after condi clear before you reach an opening.

    Condi thief poison stacks were also nerfed recently which makes it fair. Those 2 classes aren't really a problem.

    The one good build? I don't mind Weaver having a good build. It's that one class should not be good at everything. You should not be able to sustain and smash at the same time. Which was why Holo was nerfed, too much dps with sustain. Tho I actually think holo was much more manageable, you can clearly see the telegraphed animations and know when they are out.

    Fresh air? The one shot build was totally fine. Because it gave up it's survival for dps. Weaver was once fine when it was a bunker, now it's basically both bunker and dps that require specific builds to kill.

    This fire Weaver now, you cant stand next to them on fire attunement and gylph or what ever and when they are on water attunement and Earth + twist of f. They can basically stand on node and sit there. While you have to get off.

    Granted ele mains will hate. Just like any 1 hates when some one thinks their class is op

  • TorQ.7041TorQ.7041 Member ✭✭✭

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    You've said enough, you can stop embarrassing yourself now.
    First you said 30k burns in 2 seconds, then you said "Yeah I could have cleansed, but I didn't expect to die, was going to wait til it stacks before I cleanse"
    There are alot of issues with this, firstly if you could've cleansed and didn't, no matter what, thats a misplay if it ended up in your death, regardless of the number of conditions on you.
    Second off, with basic game knowledge you know that Burning has a higher base condition damage value than Bleeding or Torment does, so less stacks will equal more damage, giving you less time to make that decision to cleanse or not.
    Thirdly, you can't wait to cleanse burns that are ticking for 15k a tick (if they were, which they were not mind you.) and they would not "reapply" as much or as fast. The only thing left over after a Weaver puts that many burns on someone, in the IDEAL scenario, is flame wall and auto attack damage/conditions.

    The death recap will show you irrelevant numbers, people have died with numbers that show you've taken 100k damage, does that mean you took 100k damage right as you died? No.

    You said Bull's Charge has a long CD to warrant the long CC? So does Gale and Weave Self, infact both are longer recharge than Bull's Charge is.
    In order to take as much damage as you did, in 2 seconds, is close to impossible, and means you ate multiple ticks of double fire Primordial Stance, all of Glyph(or signet of fire which is 100x easier to mitigate and dodge mind you), and Pyro Vortex. So hats off to you for eating that much damage and still somehow thinking it's not your fault that you died.

    Also Fire Weaver's potential to 1v2 (good players) is very low. If you 1v2 bad players, thats a completely different arguement, and every sidenoder (yes EVERY) is capable of 1v2ing bad players.
    Even the best Fire Weaver will not kill anything, any class in 3 seconds.

    Baablabla. Blablabla. What ever.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    They have been nerfed more than enough but problem is when u have classes built with mechanics like mesmer and thief whether their OP or not they will always be for front of nerf cry's, that's why rogues are most crowd about in any mmo even when their underperforming. People get hard coded to hate on these classes when they lose to them and the class mechanics dont help.
    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok. Bottom line is a good weaver has bunker sustain but better than average condi burst which is not ok and is overperforming. Damage needs reduced or sustain,cant have both.

  • Auburner.6945Auburner.6945 Member ✭✭✭

    Add a 1s interval to Glyph of Elemental Power, so that it doesn't stack with Primordial Stance, auto attacks and pulsating fields all at once. This should prevent the burst, else, I don't see much needed to change... maybe Fire Signet should have 1.5-2x duration and less burst.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Auburner.6945 said:
    Add a 1s interval to Glyph of Elemental Power, so that it doesn't stack with Primordial Stance, auto attacks and pulsating fields all at once. This should prevent the burst, else, I don't see much needed to change... maybe Fire Signet should have 1.5-2x duration and less burst.

    This would be an easy change to implement. :+1:

    I'd add a little nerf to condi cleanses via ICD on Sunspot of ~5s (available for overloads, but not to every weaver attunement change) and/or reduction of Transmute aura cleanse to 1 condi cleansed in PVP. This would affect tempest, but they don't use fire for sustain anyways.

    I guess we will get a nerf on Primordial stance and CD increases on evades. This will lead to bunker weaver becoming less viable and force everybody to play with fire...

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

    Yeah are u comparing thief sustain to weavers sustain lmao. Yeah thiefs are regularly 1v2 bunkering on a node with crazy high condi bursts or power bursts? Get real.
    Oh what happened to the one bunker like spec thief had which was staff? Oh that's right it got nerfed last patch did it not and it's used tones of evades to sustain it couldn't just eat damage and constantly re heal anywhere close to weaver,.
    If u look to post before the fire weaver got buffed to brokenness I always defended it as I like the spec a lot so.... but broken is broken

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

    Yeah are u comparing thief sustain to weavers sustain lmao. Yeah thiefs are regularly 1v2 bunkering on a node with crazy high condi bursts or power bursts? Get real.
    Oh what happened to the one bunker like spec thief had which was staff? Oh that's right it got nerfed last patch did it not and it's used tones of evades to sustain it couldn't just eat damage and constantly re heal anywhere close to weaver,.

    I am not complaining about anything, I just wanted to point out that what you said there (and here too) about thieves can be applied to eles and vice-versa. The fact that you didn't notice this is a huge proof of your bias for thieves. But hey, you can do and say whatever you want, you opinion matters as much as mine in this game.
    I am not arguing with you. Enjoy your class!

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2019

    Yeah pointing out what I said means nothing considering its regarding a completely different class build. So cuz I think fire weavers op that means I can't disagree with other specs or builds being called op? Ok.
    I called it months ago weaver OP threads would start and had biased players as u put it defending fire weaver saying its balanced lol and guarantee theres gonna be more and I'd definitely bet on it getting toned down in the future.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The damage isn't that hard to avoid. I don't usually die to a weaver unless I'm out of ways to cleanse/kite. Damage is still too high for the amount of survivability they have.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Survivability of Fireweaver is fine, the burning output is a little too high

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

    Yeah are u comparing thief sustain to weavers sustain lmao. Yeah thiefs are regularly 1v2 bunkering on a node with crazy high condi bursts or power bursts? Get real.
    Oh what happened to the one bunker like spec thief had which was staff? Oh that's right it got nerfed last patch did it not and it's used tones of evades to sustain it couldn't just eat damage and constantly re heal anywhere close to weaver,.
    If u look to post before the fire weaver got buffed to brokenness I always defended it as I like the spec a lot so.... but broken is broken

    A bug fix is not a nerf bro.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

    Yeah are u comparing thief sustain to weavers sustain lmao. Yeah thiefs are regularly 1v2 bunkering on a node with crazy high condi bursts or power bursts? Get real.
    Oh what happened to the one bunker like spec thief had which was staff? Oh that's right it got nerfed last patch did it not and it's used tones of evades to sustain it couldn't just eat damage and constantly re heal anywhere close to weaver,.
    If u look to post before the fire weaver got buffed to brokenness I always defended it as I like the spec a lot so.... but broken is broken

    A bug fix is not a nerf bro.

    Not bug fix staff master and trickery grandmaster trait were both nerfed to nerf staff as well to nerf its sustain thru evades

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 20, 2019

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Eugchriss.2046 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @ROMANG.1903 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    I said this months ago and got alot of backlash. It's one of many ridiculous op specs/builds that people seem to be blind to cuz their too worried about mesmer and thief meme builds to see the others.

    Then maybe ANet should fix those first. Why do we always nerf the one good build of a class that has been struggling in PvP for years and now has a moment of glory, instead of doing something about these kitten mesmers? (Mesmers mains will tell you they aren't OP, because they are mesmer mains.)

    Weavers not being great at pvp for couple yrs now is irrelevant and no excuse for it overperforming now and definitely doesn't make it ok.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Something is somewhat effective on thief resulting in some players dieing to a thief therefore resulting in nerf whines lol

    The bias is real lmao

    Yeah are u comparing thief sustain to weavers sustain lmao. Yeah thiefs are regularly 1v2 bunkering on a node with crazy high condi bursts or power bursts? Get real.
    Oh what happened to the one bunker like spec thief had which was staff? Oh that's right it got nerfed last patch did it not and it's used tones of evades to sustain it couldn't just eat damage and constantly re heal anywhere close to weaver,.
    If u look to post before the fire weaver got buffed to brokenness I always defended it as I like the spec a lot so.... but broken is broken

    A bug fix is not a nerf bro.

    Not bug fix staff master and trickery grandmaster trait were both nerfed to nerf staff as well to nerf its sustain thru evades

    Jump Staff 3 was cancer, it was in the best interest of everyone to fix it. The latter more or less matters when everyone was just using Staff Thief because of that bug regardless, because people had a taste of it, they fell back into P/W but that's likely to change too anyway, smells too much. There's uniformity with the cost and cast coming, which is nice. Because not all dual wield skills/3rd slot skills are equal. Acrobatics is also a powerful specialization which justifies the nerf on Staff Master.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just cleanse :trollface: