Different kind of balance.

I don't know if many people have though this. But downed skill are so unbalanced between classes. So, let's say you 1v1 with someone and both of you go down the same moment who wins then?How fair is it to have a warrior that gets up uses all his skills and kills you or a ranger that calls his pet to heal him like A LOT. There are times that even if you are not down the pet heals him more that the dmg you can do to him. Or a necromancer that just lifesteals you and applies conditions to you?

Though I have to agree that in a down vs down scenario, there are many imbalances (especially downed immortal rangers in underwater WvW >:O), I'd really like anet to take a look at PvPs major imbalances like condi application and certain skill cooldowns

You're right that there are massive downed state imbalances, but Vengeance on Warrior is generally terrible. The downed Hammer knockdown is also really unreliable, you can literally just side step it most of the time. Vengeance rarely gets to activate and often times you're going to die right after.

Ranger, Necro, and Guard are the best downed vs downed classes. Ele, Thief, and Mes are the best for surviving a stomp. They are the only classes that can avoid a stomp reliably. I feel like all downed states need to be the same functionally just with a different flavor. The 2 skill should always be a single target CC of the same duration. The 3 skill should be a AoE CC. All should have the same activation time and CD.

Keep things as they are in PvE I guess as it hardly matters, but in a competitive game the functionality should be the same.

@K THEN.5162 said:Though I have to agree that in a down vs down scenario, there are many imbalances (especially downed immortal rangers in underwater WvW >:O), I'd really like anet to take a look at PvPs major imbalances like condi application and certain skill cooldowns

The ranger pet healing it's just rediculous. There's no way to compete that cause you can't kill the pet but you can't kill the ranger too.

We need more condi sarcasm

That is true, maybe if it was a channel by the ranger so you could cancel it with your downstate cc

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:You're right that there are massive downed state imbalances, but Vengeance on Warrior is generally terrible. The downed Hammer knockdown is also really unreliable, you can literally just side step it most of the time. Vengeance rarely gets to activate and often times you're going to die right after.

Ranger, Necro, and Guard are the best downed vs downed classes. Ele, Thief, and Mes are the best for surviving a stomp. They are the only classes that can avoid a stomp reliably. I feel like all downed states need to be the same functionally just with a different flavor. The 2 skill should always be a single target CC of the same duration. The 3 skill should be a AoE CC. All should have the same activation time and CD.

Keep things as they are in PvE I guess as it hardly matters, but in a competitive game the functionality should be the same.

The thing that annoys me more is that some classes have a fair amount of healing on the downed state while others dont. You are right, wars rarely activate vengeance but on a 1v1 scenario I think war is on the strong side.

Mistform through mesmer portal or gate in WvW is priceless.

@Harry Foud.1935 said:

@BurrTheKing.8571 said:You're right that there are massive downed state imbalances, but Vengeance on Warrior is generally terrible. The downed Hammer knockdown is also really unreliable, you can literally just side step it most of the time. Vengeance rarely gets to activate and often times you're going to die right after.

Ranger, Necro, and Guard are the best downed vs downed classes. Ele, Thief, and Mes are the best for surviving a stomp. They are the only classes that can avoid a stomp reliably. I feel like all downed states need to be the same functionally just with a different flavor. The 2 skill should always be a single target CC of the same duration. The 3 skill should be a AoE CC. All should have the same activation time and CD.

Keep things as they are in PvE I guess as it hardly matters, but in a competitive game the functionality should be the same.

The thing is even with a perfect knockdown and the enemy not using a stun break they can still land the stomp before you can vengeance, you'll only activate it if they mess up in some way. In a downed fight you might win with it but if you don't revive you basically did worse than a Necro, Guard or Ranger would have.

Downed skills are generally well balanced when taken as a whole, classes that are more likely to win the downed vs. downed battles are typically easier to stomp.

Elementalist: Impossible to stomp on first attempt, but looses to every class in downed vs. downed. The exact opposite of necro/warrior.

Engineer: 2 skill is telegraphed single target projectile so easy to stomp first try, downed vs. down it does a bit below average for, but if they get enough time they can potentially juggle the 2 and 3 skills to deny multiple stomp attempts which can be nice. (Probably worst downed state overall)

Guardian: Interrupt is aoe, non projectile, fairly fast to cast, so quite good. Does about average in downed vs downed. Just average in all regards.

Mesmer: Only stomp-able first attempt with reveal which is quite niche. Does moderately well to extremely well in downed vs downed depending on how many phantasms it still has active. Illusionary rogue can hit like a truck.

Necromancer: Interrupt has obvious tell, is single target and can be negated by both stability, and resistance. However the 1 and 3 skills allow it to beat any class in downed vs downed including rangers, but it can go either way.

Ranger: Interrupt is non projectile, pretty quick cast, and can interrupt multiple enemies, pets can potentially provide more interrupts, and . Pet res makes it just about the best downed vs downed class along with necro. (Probably best downed state on a whole)

Revenant: Interrupt is single target, non projectile that is fast to cast. Slow on the one skill is a very strong condition but it still loses to many classes in downed vs downed. 3 skill is useless.

Thief: Only stomp-able first attempt with an instant teleport which is still not reliable. The one skill is the multi target downed auto attack and hits really hard. Three skill allows potential to avoid multiple stomp attempts if given enough time. Low health pool means it can be cleaved out relatively quickly, and loses most downed vs downed match ups.

Warrior: The interrupt is slow cast single target projectile, which is really bad. But it's base stats allow it to out muscle most classes in downed vs. downed and for everything else it can stalemate with vengeance and sometimes win with a lucky rally.

Overall the only class that might be considered overpowered in downed state would be ranger but it at least can be stomped first attempt with stability, invulnerability, or blind. Classes that are good at winning downed vs downed can generally be stomped easily, while classes that can't be stomped easily generally lose in downed vs. downed.

@ArthurDent.9538 said:Downed skills are generally well balanced when taken as a whole, classes that are more likely to win the downed vs. downed battles are typically easier to stomp.

Elementalist: Impossible to stomp on first attempt, but looses to every class in downed vs. downed. The exact opposite of necro/warrior.

Engineer: 2 skill is telegraphed single target projectile so easy to stomp first try, downed vs. down it does a bit below average for, but if they get enough time they can potentially juggle the 2 and 3 skills to deny multiple stomp attempts which can be nice. (Probably worst downed state overall)

Guardian: Interrupt is aoe, non projectile, fairly fast to cast, so quite good. Does about average in downed vs downed. Just average in all regards.

Mesmer: Only stomp-able first attempt with reveal which is quite niche. Does moderately well to extremely well in downed vs downed depending on how many phantasms it still has active. Illusionary rogue can hit like a truck.

Necromancer: Interrupt has obvious tell, is single target and can be negated by both stability, and resistance. However the 1 and 3 skills allow it to beat any class in downed vs downed including rangers, but it can go either way.

Ranger: Interrupt is non projectile, pretty quick cast, and can interrupt multiple enemies, pets can potentially provide more interrupts, and . Pet res makes it just about the best downed vs downed class along with necro. (Probably best downed state on a whole)

Revenant: Interrupt is single target, non projectile that is fast to cast. Slow on the one skill is a very strong condition but it still loses to many classes in downed vs downed. 3 skill is useless.

Thief: Only stomp-able first attempt with an instant teleport which is still not reliable. The one skill is the multi target downed auto attack and hits really hard. Three skill allows potential to avoid multiple stomp attempts if given enough time. Low health pool means it can be cleaved out relatively quickly, and loses most downed vs downed match ups.

Warrior: The interrupt is slow cast single target projectile, which is really bad. But it's base stats allow it to out muscle most classes in downed vs. downed and for everything else it can stalemate with vengeance and sometimes win with a lucky rally.

Overall the only class that might be considered overpowered in downed state would be ranger but it at least can be stomped first attempt with stability, invulnerability, or blind. Classes that are good at winning downed vs downed can generally be stomped easily, while classes that can't be stomped easily generally lose in downed vs. downed.

I agree but shouldn't the downed vs downed scenario be balanced for all? Necros and Rangers have the best downed state on a whole. If somehow both of you get down they will win every time. I just hope to be able to cc the rangers pet and place some healing on every class