Nerf Stability

After the elixir U nerf on engi I've started realizing how important stability actually is.With the old Elixir U I could:

Reset safely/ play defensively - Heal up, you know the usual holo sustainability stuff ( the heat dissipation nerf did nothing for the most part. Healing turret and water field blast spam was way more effective, yes the 1k healing dodge rolls added up in that, but the nerf really didn't take much away from it)

Reliably open with damage - You can still do this, it isn't much different using elixir U into 4, other than the 2nd stability becomes worthless since by the time you do whatever is next, jump shot, etc it's gone

Yes, I know I get stability from 3 in holo, and using elixir X to set up cc into rifle 4 with the stability is something I still do.but the reliability of having a 2 stack 10 sec/stunbreak (with runes and traits) opened up a lot of the things holo was good at, now doing anything can easily be denied.

ESSENTIALLY, I am forced to play my class kind of how the kit was meant to be played, having to work with my kit instead of just 'doing it' for free with stability. A lot of classes have a 'elixir U' making it easy to pop it and just DO what should be punishable relatively easy.

Yeah reducing the duration/ stacks of stability game-wide will make cc abilities more important to dodge/ work around with, it makes CC something that should be feared as it is in other games where classes with a lot of cc makes others wary of fighting them and have to be worked around, maybe certain classes can keep their 'elixir U' but should have toned down offensive roles.

or just give me my 10 sec stab back...

:^)

Nerf everything once and for all!

Wow... Just, wow

I have a lot of stability as a revenant every so often and it doesn't stop anyone from CC'ing me out of it with Annulment or any form of boon strips. In fact Warrior right now has so much cleave damage it can just afk autoattacking anything even without any CC and will kill just as easily, or you can be a Spellbreaker and always have spare evade to randomly use and deal 3k to 5k of unblockable damage because having to already avoid being tethered by 2 unblockable burst skills isn't enough while everything else they do still deal a ton of damage.

So for as long there's a class that can dominate without any effort, I wouldn't nerf stability further without nerfing damage. You can always use Toss Elixir B or land your Corona Burst like it was designed to be.

Where's a thumbs down button when I want it?

My core ele says no.

And then see the salt when people start spamming Hammer Warrior hehehe.

The current version of stability is far less powerful than the old one (unlimited immunity until it ran out). However, the game has gotten too spammy with both cc and stability.

I doubt anything will change greatly from what it is (beyond tweaking numbers), but I do think it would help to change the way the game plays. For example, what if we remove stability, but in exchange using a stun break gives you an unstrippable boon that makes the character immune to cc for 5 seconds (or whatever length is appropriate)? That sort of immunity would protect against CC spam (but only to a limited degree, stunbreaks are in general much less frequent than CC skills).

You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

While I'm inclined to agree that some classes can generate too much long duration stability compared to others. I don't really see why you add mesmer to the too much cc list. Mesmer has less effective cc than ever before in the game with the loss of CI. WTkitten is a mesmer exactly supposed to do these days without the ability to cc other then run away or die? All the cc abilities 99.9% of mesmers has literally been in game since release and with the changes to things like staff 5 and CI it actually has less cc now that before even tho it was fine for 6 years? Give me a kitten break! The only addition of cc for mesmer that comes to mind is main hand sword ambush for mirage which most dont use in pvp rn and it never did land reliably.

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

Stop with the mesmer mobility meme, if you were to run forward for1min nonstop, you would cover more ground on meta reaper then on meta mesmer builds.If you do nerf mobility across the board then suddenly unmobile blobs of stats like guards or necros are unbeatable dont know if thats what people want, mobility can be outplayed. Your oponent instawinning becouse he has 3x your eHP can not.Number of stun removing tools is HUGE for most classes, I played mesmer,necro,warrior and thief.Most meta thiefs can remove stuns 3 times + they can steal during stun.Warrior depending on build 2-3 times, + pulsing stab on rampage.Mesmer 1-2 times + some abilities can be cast while cced, namely f3 + f4 + jaunt + staff 2.On necro you have 1-3 depending on what you take, worm is good, walk is good and armour is good, + you can recall during CC with spectral walk + stab if reaper.Usually if you manage to dodge half the CC you are set, problem starts when you are outnumbered, THEN its a problem.When you fight p mirage he has hard cc as followsCurtain ( 25s cd )f3 ( Diversion 38s cd )g5 ( 30s CD ).Those are the only meaningfull hard CC that can set up kills, most classes I listed can facetank EVERY SINGLE CC AND REMOVE IT.

TLDR CC in 1v1 is usually fine, its when you get banged 1v2 or 1v3 you get cc chained, but then again. Shouldnt you ?

@MyPuppy.8970 said:My core ele says no.

why would core ele dislike a nerf to stability? Core ele has some of the least access to stability, and bringing other classes down to its level would help it a lot.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

Reaper brings at least some stability in greastword plus foot in the grave, but even then, reapers defenses are nowhere near as good as holosmith and firebrand spamming and the kinda sustain revenants and druids have.

All these classes have crazy amounts of sustain and some of these have insane 1200 range teleports like revenants.

Thieves can zoom around like its nothing. Say what you want, but part of the problem with necro is that once you are in a battle wurm or no wurm, your odds of getting out alive are almost nothing, and a lot of these classes can spam cc like its nobody's business, guardians have ridiculous sustain that it's unmanageable combined with spewing out boons, holosmiths zoom around with invuln jump in and out and can hit hard and you ever been attacked by firebrand? who in their right mind thought this was a good idea having that much mobility and sustain combined?

Part of the reason necro's especially core is in such a dire situation that they can be farmed, is that their defenses are not great. Lets take thief class for instance:Thieves can gate away and simply escape, mesmers can teleport away fairly easy and get invuln you got blink for 1200 range on 30 sec cd and invuln to get away plus other tools.

These guys all need to be scaled back in mobility CC back to hot at least.

And the point of this is not to scale back so much that damage is non existent, but at least to go back to a point where you have far less teleports ccs and cleanses along with condi being a bit scaled back too to compensate for nerfing cleanses, so condi can exist but not so overpowered.

It doesn't help reaper either that core is weak as well, as once you are cc'ed and dpsed out of reaper shroud you re still a sitting duck.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

lol, I find it much easier to escape on necro then on mes, as long as I have wurm set up.Fear is amazing self peel tool combined with long lasting chill, and pressure throught the walls make you safe, as long as you know the maps and where to kite.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

Thing is though blink cannot be destroyed and wurm can be destroyed fairly easy. A necro's wurm you gotta place it out of range and if its seen it gets destroyed preventing you from escaping at all, and we are already really limited due to our kits, but i don't think buffing necro too much is the answer as is scaling back other classes. Buffing one class to compensate for power creep just creates more power creep as you know, just look at the monstruosity created with holosmith.

I will admit that the reason is a lot of these necro tools are not in our weapons like other classes EG mesmers guardians rangers eles, instead in abilities and its been heldback to a time of hot or earlier compared to others.

Also fear is nice, but in the end it cannot be compared to the tools others have to escape.

@Axl.8924 said:You guys know what the real issue? everything is too power crept not just stability, but ccs, so before you start nerfing stab, start nerfing ccs first.

You shouldn't be able to spam ccs and be impossible to counter, because, that's just ridiculous.

Everything is simply too power crept.

Mobility leaps teleport, its all far too prevalent, and keeps other classes from being able to exist.

Classes like thief mesmer warrior revenant and holosmith hurt the game, and all of these need to be nerfed in how much mobility and teleports.

Exactly ! Many Players wouldnt have left PvP if this had been done already 2 years ago. Everybody wants this game to be balanced, but when any OP stuff is going to be nerfed, the players who are successful with it, start complaing. I hope that Cal Cohen is courageously going his way to get this job done. The next patches are my big (last) hope ! And dont forget to nerf the stability spam of weaver. Then it ll be finally over with weaver bunker.

The problem is not rly stab, but the amount of stunbreaks running around.

@Shao.7236 said:I have a lot of stability as a revenant every so often and it doesn't stop anyone from CC'ing me out of it with Annulment or any form of boon strips. In fact Warrior right now has so much cleave damage it can just afk autoattacking anything even without any CC and will kill just as easily, or you can be a Spellbreaker and always have spare evade to randomly use and deal 3k to 5k of unblockable damage because having to already avoid being tethered by 2 unblockable burst skills isn't enough while everything else they do still deal a ton of damage.

So for as long there's a class that can dominate without any effort, I wouldn't nerf stability further without nerfing damage. You can always use Toss Elixir B or land your Corona Burst like it was designed to be.

I want to see any competent player die to a warrior that uses no cc ever.Pls stay realistic and dont talk kitten.

@RedShark.9548 said:The problem is not rly stab, but the amount of stunbreaks running around.

@Shao.7236 said:I have a lot of stability as a revenant every so often and it doesn't stop anyone from CC'ing me out of it with Annulment or any form of boon strips. In fact Warrior right now has so much cleave damage it can just afk autoattacking anything even without any CC and will kill just as easily, or you can be a Spellbreaker and always have spare evade to randomly use and deal 3k to 5k of unblockable damage because having to already avoid being tethered by 2 unblockable burst skills isn't enough while everything else they do still deal a ton of damage.

So for as long there's a class that can dominate without any effort, I wouldn't nerf stability further without nerfing damage. You can always use Toss Elixir B or land your Corona Burst like it was designed to be.

I've seen hundreds of kills in tops without CC, damage is high, CC is irrelevant to it.

@Shao.7236 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:The problem is not rly stab, but the amount of stunbreaks running around.

@Shao.7236 said:I have a lot of stability as a revenant every so often and it doesn't stop anyone from CC'ing me out of it with Annulment or any form of boon strips. In fact Warrior right now has so much cleave damage it can just afk autoattacking anything even without any CC and will kill just as easily, or you can be a Spellbreaker and always have spare evade to randomly use and deal 3k to 5k of unblockable damage because having to already avoid being tethered by 2 unblockable burst skills isn't enough while everything else they do still deal a ton of damage.

So for as long there's a class that can dominate without any effort, I wouldn't nerf stability further without nerfing damage. You can always use Toss Elixir B or land your Corona Burst like it was designed to be.

If the warrior has no cc to setup his bursts nobody who knows the game will get hit by enough dmg skills to die, atleast not in a 1v1 situation

@reikken.4961 said:

@MyPuppy.8970 said:My core ele says no.

Ah, i was just talking on my behalf :) don't nerf me pls ^^'

This was kind of a rage/joking/emo/qq/serious post. I'm going through a down point. So I'm not doing well in pvp xD. I kind of made up a problem, for no reason. It still kind of has a point it it, but yeah. :expressionless:

@RedShark.9548 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@RedShark.9548 said:The problem is not rly stab, but the amount of stunbreaks running around.

@Shao.7236 said:I have a lot of stability as a revenant every so often and it doesn't stop anyone from CC'ing me out of it with Annulment or any form of boon strips. In fact Warrior right now has so much cleave damage it can just afk autoattacking anything even without any CC and will kill just as easily, or you can be a Spellbreaker and always have spare evade to randomly use and deal 3k to 5k of unblockable damage because having to already avoid being tethered by 2 unblockable burst skills isn't enough while everything else they do still deal a ton of damage.

So for as long there's a class that can dominate without any effort, I wouldn't nerf stability further without nerfing damage. You can always use Toss Elixir B or land your Corona Burst like it was designed to be.

Bursts of any sort on Warriors don't require CC to setup. Anything a Warrior does hurt, CC doesn't change that fact.

Warrior Axe Cleave is 15k on 25 Might, Axe Whirl is 6k, Axe Throw goes up to 8k.

Spellbreaker just dances around with Might while dealing 5k dodges among the other skills that hurts just as much if not more.

Bullscharge is the only utility CC that they actually use and it's mostly just for the evade anyway. No one was using it otherwise when it had none and honestly people now started to use other things as well depending on the match up so no, CC is optional.

@Sailorz.4270 said:My stab got nerfed so I need to think, nerf it for everyone else so I don't need to think:^)

salutesgot it

@Shao.7236 said:Bursts of any sort on Warriors don't require CC to setup. Anything a Warrior does hurt, CC doesn't change that fact.

Big Lies* Detected, especially if you play zerker and cant just autogen bursts. Nobody with swiftness, or superspeed is going to stand there for their damage. That is precisely why Zerker is struggling right now.

*sarcasm

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Stop with the mesmer mobility meme, if you were to run forward for1min nonstop, you would cover more ground on meta reaper then on meta mesmer builds.as if that means anythingYou're not running laps in pvp. Burst mobility is what matters. You're moving around in combat, and you're moving from one capture point to another. Even in the longer distance, from one point to another, mesmer does it faster. And in combat, mesmer is like an order of magnitude faster.

@reikken.4961 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:Stop with the mesmer mobility meme, if you were to run forward for1min nonstop, you would cover more ground on meta reaper then on meta mesmer builds.as if

that

means anythingYou're not running laps in pvp. Burst mobility is what matters. You're moving around in combat, and you're moving from one capture point to another. Even in the longer distance, from one point to another, mesmer does it faster. And in combat, mesmer is like an order of magnitude faster.

ofc it does, reaper has perma upgraded swiftness, recall with spectral, and 1200 blink. followed by LOW COOLDOWN dash on shroud. people that say reaper is not mobile are delusional.