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Did Lyssa leave with the other Gods?

Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree. I also very much suspect that both Count Annise and Queen Jenna are Lyssa. With one of them being Ilya and the other Lyss. Even if that wasn't originally intended, I hope Arenanet runs with that for a story thread at some point.

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  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lyssen, we don't know, but pretty sure she did, or should I say they did.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    U need play path of fire to see what happen.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree. I also very much suspect that both Count Annise and Queen Jenna are Lyssa. With one of them being Ilya and the other Lyss. Even if that wasn't originally intended, I hope Arenanet runs with that for a story thread at some point.

    Hi Jables! Your speculation is warranted. Although the Guild Wars Prophecies Manuscripts state that the gods left Tyria, and the timeline that we know of as the Mouvelian calendar records this as a historical "fact", calling their departure the Exodus, in reality there are many more reasons to believe that they stayed than that they left.

    Look, I'm not going to put an argument together here to support your speculation and force naysayers to actually work hard at their dismissals. Instead, I'm going to make a suggestion: the event that many humans know of as the "Exodus" may in fact be a powerful spell, cast by Lyssa herself, to give the impression that the gods departed Tyria for the Mists. Remember, the Orrian History Scrolls declare that Lyssa has the power to cast such spells; so too, LS3 and PoF.

    If this is the case, we must ask why Lyssa would do such a thing?

    As to Jennah and Anise being Lyssa: I'm cool with that theory. Stay open minded and keep the creative juices flowing.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2019

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree.

    Balthazar obtained Lyssa's Mirror from the gods' reliquaries in Siren's Landing. We know this because Balthazar went there without a disguise to hide the final aspect of Lazarus relic, in order to prevent people from figuring out his disguise - since it was to prevent people from figuring out that Lazarus wasn't actually resurrected, then it had to be before Episode 5 that he went to Siren's Landing, but since he was seen as Balthazar, he did not yet have Lyssa's Mirror.

    Based on Kormir's Journal, all gods have left the world of Tyria by the time of Path of Fire, and it is implied that all but Kormir had left before the events of GW2 in general.

    I also very much suspect that both Count Annise and Queen Jenna are Lyssa. With one of them being Ilya and the other Lyss.

    All evidence suggests that Anise is Livia's daughter - mortal, but also older than she seems, yet still not a goddess - as per Season 3 Episode 6.
    Jennah is mortal as well, and the Krytans have artifacts that prove if someone is of the royal bloodline or not. Which get used, while Jennah is nowhere nearby. So she wouldn't be able to hide this for very long if Jennah was not who she said she was.

    Yes, they are powerful mesmers, but their power level is not unique. To name a few other mesmers known to do things they have done: Kitah (from GW1 Cantha lore, not the Orrian guy), Koro Sagewind, Gwen, Xera. It would make no sense logically to make them be Lyssa - especially since Lyssa is not two separate entities, ever; yes they are "two that are one" but all times Lyssa interacts with mortals, it is as one being that is both of them (e.g., the Scriptures of Lyssa - one body). The implication to me being either conjoined twins, or split personality.

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    Hi Jables! Your speculation is warranted. Although the Guild Wars Prophecies Manuscripts state that the gods left Tyria, and the timeline that we know of as the Mouvelian calendar records this as a historical "fact", calling their departure the Exodus, in reality there are many more reasons to believe that they stayed than that they left.

    Look, I'm not going to put an argument together here to support your speculation and force naysayers to actually work hard at their dismissals. Instead, I'm going to make a suggestion: the event that many humans know of as the "Exodus" may in fact be a powerful spell, cast by Lyssa herself, to give the impression that the gods departed Tyria for the Mists. Remember, the Orrian History Scrolls declare that Lyssa has the power to cast such spells; so too, LS4.

    If this is the case, we must ask why Lyssa would do such a thing?

    The Exodus was the Six Gods leaving to the god realms. They are known to have returned, such as with Karei's story, but before this event they lived in Arah. After the Exodus, Orrians lived in Arah. No gods present for 1,071 years, where it was blown up thanks to Khilbron.

    The act of them "leaving Tyria" in GW2's scope is them having left the god realms. Which they definitely have done, given that we've been to four of the six realms now.

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  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Exodus was the Six Gods leaving to the god realms. They are known to have returned, such as with Karei's story, but before this event they lived in Arah. After the Exodus, Orrians lived in Arah. No gods present for 1,071 years, where it was blown up thanks to Khilbron.

    The act of them "leaving Tyria" in GW2's scope is them having left the god realms. Which they definitely have done, given that we've been to four of the six realms now.

    This begs the question: Where have they gone to? If they have moved on from their respective realms, what is next for them? Anti-realms? :o

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  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2019

    Balthazar having the mirror means next to nothing.
    It might be something they left in her God Realm or even in Arah and Balthazar went to retrieve it.
    Or, being the god of aggression, brute force and violence, Balthazar might have just taken it from them, without them agreeing.

    It might also have merely been a powerful magical artifact created by humans to represent and worship Lyssa, similar to how Christian worship involves crosses (albeit crosses are powerful magical artifacts).

  • @Donutdude.9582 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    The Exodus was the Six Gods leaving to the god realms. They are known to have returned, such as with Karei's story, but before this event they lived in Arah. After the Exodus, Orrians lived in Arah. No gods present for 1,071 years, where it was blown up thanks to Khilbron.

    The act of them "leaving Tyria" in GW2's scope is them having left the god realms. Which they definitely have done, given that we've been to four of the six realms now.

    This begs the question: Where have they gone to? If they have moved on from their respective realms, what is next for them? Anti-realms? :o

    They're searching for a new habitable world that lacks Elder Dragon equivalent problems. With promises to return to collect humanity and bring them over.

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    It might also have merely been a powerful magical artifact created by humans to represent and worship Lyssa, similar to how Christian worship involves crosses (albeit crosses are powerful magical artifacts).

    If you're play a human mesmer, it was effectively confirmed by interacting with the mirror in S3E5. Less confirmed as a non-mesmer human or non-human mesmer.

    (if human mesmer)
    The markings on it identify it as powerful mesmer magic. The design contains Lyssa's signature sigils, indicating that it was hers. She must have helped Balthazar for some reason known only to her.
    (if human non-mesmer)
    The decorative elements on it resemble those you've seen used by mesmers, and those are Lyssa's symbols around the edge. This was definitely god magic, thought now it's broken and has no magic left.
    (if non-human mesmer)
    The markings on it indicate it was powerful mesmer magic unlike any you've ever seen. Now that it's broken, it won't work ever again. It's trash.
    (otherwise)
    The decorative elements on it look like those you've seen used by mesmers. Whoever made it was a master craftsman. It's dead and useless now, though still beautiful.

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  • @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree.

    Just to add on, it should be noted that in his dying throes, Balthazar calls out the names of the other gods and curses them- except Lyssa's. She definitely had a role to play in his tantrum. Maybe if we're lucky, Anet will touch upon the whole gods issue in the Icebrood Saga? I doubt that they've truly buggered off imho

  • @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:
    She definitely had a role to play in his tantrum.

    That's just what Kormir wants you to think as she slowly destroys the Six Gods as the prophecies upon her ascension had foretold.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2019

    @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree.

    Just to add on, it should be noted that in his dying throes, Balthazar calls out the names of the other gods and curses them- except Lyssa's. She definitely had a role to play in his tantrum. Maybe if we're lucky, Anet will touch upon the whole gods issue in the Icebrood Saga? I doubt that they've truly buggered off imho

    very unlikely to happen, as episode 1 shows, the Saga be heavy focuses on norm "gods" aka spirits. Unfortunately this(lyssa balthazar connection) seems a abandoned plot, or a just "happy coincidence". notice also thats iconic the most important events of PoF happens in Vabbi thats is full of Lyssa related stuff(like serpents ire meta location). So a possible development without compromising much lore is Lyssa be interested in balthazar sweeping vabbi from kralkatorrik's presence.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @bluecheeseplate.2753 said:

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree.

    Just to add on, it should be noted that in his dying throes, Balthazar calls out the names of the other gods and curses them- except Lyssa's. She definitely had a role to play in his tantrum. Maybe if we're lucky, Anet will touch upon the whole gods issue in the Icebrood Saga? I doubt that they've truly buggered off imho

    very unlikely to happen, as episode 1 shows, the Saga be heavy focuses on norm "gods" aka spirits. Unfortunately this(lyssa balthazar connection) seems a abandoned plot, or a just "happy coincidence". notice also thats iconic the most important events of PoF happens in Vabbi thats is full of Lyssa related stuff(like serpents ire meta location). So a possible development without compromising much lore is Lyssa be interested in balthazar sweeping vabbi from kralkatorrik's presence.

    Balthazar wasn't intending to go after Kralkatorrik, though. That wasn't until after we broke the mirror. His original target was Primordus, and if he had succeeded, that would've been the end of the world, Vabbi included. (For that matter, if Balthazar had succeeded in dealing with Kralk, it still would have been the end of Vabbi. There was no possible outcome where Balthazar left Vabbi both intact and free of dragons.)

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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2019

    @Jables.4659 said:
    Balthazar was using her mirror to pose as Lazarus the Dire, which could imply that she was involved with his shenanigans to some degree. I also very much suspect that both Count Annise and Queen Jenna are Lyssa. With one of them being Ilya and the other Lyss. Even if that wasn't originally intended, I hope Arenanet runs with that for a story thread at some point.

    yes, this idea of Jennah and Anise being Lyssa was not the first time it was brought up
    especially the demonstration of Jennah's power at the start of Head of Snake, the size of barrier she put up to protect Divinity Reach from mantle's attack, totally ignore the effect of the magic chain that supposed to immobilise her, and capable of knocking people out simply pointing at the target

    but trust Konig to knock your theory out the door :lol:

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  • @crepuscular.9047 said:
    especially the demonstration of Jennah's power at the start of Head of Snake, the size of barrier she put up to protect Divinity Reach from mantle's attack, totally ignore the effect of the magic chain that supposed to immobilise her, and capable of knocking people out simply pointing at the target

    To be fair, that dome was not all Jennah. Even ignoring the fact that the dome has some pretty clear guardian magic in it as well as mesmer (it looks like Feedback and Sanctuary stacked on top of each other and oversized), at the beginning of that instance Jennah states:

    Queen Jennah: I believe a White Mantle attack is imminent and must take certain actions, here in Divinity's Reach, to ensure its safety.

    She knew was expecting an attack by White Mantle forces - the two most likely mehtods for any attack is either assassination, or siege. Preparing for both is practically a must. But more telling is what she says before going to the three locations for smaller barriers:

    Queen Jennah: We've prepared for many contingencies. There are some defenses ready to set up right outside the chamber. Quickly!
    Queen Jennah: Cover me while I set up this defensive barrier.

    These four barriers - the dome and the three walls - were pre-established defenses, and all Jennah had to do was activate them. She wasn't maintaining them - they're self-maintained, a for a while.

    It's pretty clear that the only "on the spot spell" Jennah uses, is her 3-use one-shotting Mantra of Pain. And even mantras are "spells you prepare ahead of time" really.

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