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Holosmith has too little stability


Enduronex.4865

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After patch...

Can't win vs. warrior (was already the case vs. spellbreaker pre-patch, but now all warriors dunk you)Can't win vs. ranger's longbow bursts, greatsword block -> CC combos and subtle gazelle animations that hit for 12K and are really hard to dodge since they are so fastCan't win vs. heralds, they will shread youCan't win vs. symbol FB's stupidly overpowered AOEs, and has a hard time vs. dragonhunters (YES, DRAGONHUNTERS)Can't win vs. reaper or core necro (We all know scourge is underpowered rn)Can't win vs daredevil and core thief's pistol whip (which is broken) and all their CCs, nor can it win vs a deadeye in constant stealth and one-shotting and CCingIt can't win vs mirage or one shot core mesmer (maybe could win vs chrono)It unfavorable vs burn weaver, and extremely vulnerable to one shot weaver and power air overload tempest buildsIt can't win vs. knockback scrapper

That's what nerfing Elixir U did to holosmith. It's now a sub-par class. Thanks for whining without being educated all the time on forums and not understanding the role holosmith filled. It was meant to farm people who were underperforming in matches as it was the dmg-doing roamer. Now it gets farmed by someone with even 1 follow up CC and it's so awful. It feels Druid, man.

You can have all the other nerfs (Heat Therapy, Quickness), but Elixir U needs at least 3 seconds base Stab in PvP.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?
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Most of engineer has a stability problem. We get ping-ponged in teamfights currently. The problem is that many of our stunbreaks are on long cooldowns, and rarely prevent a second, follow-up CC. Most other classes have stunbreaks that feature an evade, an ammo system, and/or some other defense... ours almost exclusively stunbreak once. Superspeed is the closest skill we get to other class stunbreaks, due to its low recharge. Notice how it has absolutely nothing else going for it besides move speed?

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@Odik.4587 said:

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.

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@"memausz.7264" said:After patch...

Can't win vs. warrior (was already the case vs. spellbreaker pre-patch, but now all warriors dunk you)Can't win vs. ranger's longbow bursts, greatsword block -> CC combos and subtle gazelle animations that hit for 12K and are really hard to dodge since they are so fastCan't win vs. heralds, they will shread youCan't win vs. symbol FB's stupidly overpowered AOEs, and has a hard time vs. dragonhunters (YES, DRAGONHUNTERS)Can't win vs. reaper or core necro (We all know scourge is underpowered rn)Can't win vs daredevil and core thief's pistol whip (which is broken) and all their CCs, nor can it win vs a deadeye in constant stealth and one-shotting and CCingIt can't win vs mirage or one shot core mesmer (maybe could win vs chrono)It unfavorable vs burn weaver, and extremely vulnerable to one shot weaver and power air overload tempest buildsIt can't win vs. knockback scrapper

That's what nerfing Elixir U did to holosmith. It's now a sub-par class. Thanks for whining without being educated all the time on forums and not understanding the role holosmith filled. It was meant to farm people who were underperforming in matches as it was the dmg-doing roamer. Now it gets farmed by someone with even 1 follow up CC and it's so awful. It feels Druid, man.

You can have all the other nerfs (Heat Therapy, Quickness), but Elixir U needs at least 3 seconds base Stab in PvP.

Welcome to our world friend, why don't you have a seat next to us necros.

We have been ping-ponged around due to lack of reasonable ways for stab, and we got almost no mobility. Once a thief gets us, we are food.Reapers only reason we are even more viable is due to reaper shroud and access to a bit of stab in reaper shroud itself proper and:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Foot_in_the_Gravehttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror

Reaper shroud is a lot more sustainable than core because of the moves that cripple on GS and access of more available stab.

In fact core necros were food for most classes alone, especially thief ranger and warriors but firebrands are also hard.

Maybe we can ask for a overhaul now of core engi? could be nice if holo is underperforming to give it other stuff elsewhere.

Good luck man hope engi doesn't become like it was in the past where you guys get farmed by every thief without thought.

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Holo main: my spec isn't META anymore, plz buff AnetAnet buffs HoloMirage main: my spec isn't as strong as Holo anymore, plz buff AnetAnet buffs MirageHolo main: my spec isn't as strong as Mirage anymore, plz buff AnetAnet buffs Holo...

Holo is still better than like what -- ~80% of the other elite/core specs? Just because it isn't META doesn't mean it needs buffs. This bullshit race to the top is a huge factor in some of the worst powercreep balancing. We know for a fact there is a big balance patch in the future led by a new balance dev that aims to bring down overall power levels. How about being patient and wait for the nerfs instead of crying for them to make Holo META again?

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@Odik.4587 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:
holo is underperforming
Good joke, you got me.Good luck man hope engi doesn't become like it was in the past where you guys get farmed by every thief without thought.Since when engi was farmed by every thief, especially "without a thought"??????

I remember during hot I would farm scrapper and some others too. it was fairly easy to outrun and kill on thief.

I didn't say holo was underperforming that other guy did. I merely said welcome to the world of necro.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:
holo is underperforming
Good joke, you got me.Good luck man hope engi doesn't become like it was in the past where you guys get farmed by every thief without thought.Since when engi was farmed by every thief, especially "without a thought"??????

I remember during hot I would farm scrapper and some others too. it was fairly easy to outrun and kill on thief.Bunker spec... easly kill...on thief...wat ? Never heard or even remotely remember that SCRAPPER BEING FARMED by thieves
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@Odik.4587 said:

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

3/4 down to 1/2. Half second is still alot of time. It's range is also only 300 now. If you can't dodge a half second skill and he's on top of you. That's your own fault.

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@TorQ.7041 said:

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

3/4 down to 1/2. Half second is still alot of time. It's range is also only 300 now. If you can't dodge a half second skill and he's on top of you. That's your own fault.You used google, amazing, now learn to come with facts. Corona burst hit twice every 6s and its not the only thing that is a must dodge. It has way more problems than just "dodge 2 skills", for not being aware how OP holo(was) its your own fault
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@Odik.4587 said:

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

@memausz.7264 said:After patch...

Can't win vs. anything cuz i'm bad.Pretty much

Actually. He's been in plat2 pre patch for over 3 seasons. So no... Pretty sure he's not bad. Holo just got nerfed to the ground. After people don't Dodge their massively telegraphed animations.He isnt bad because he was carried by facerollsmith? :joy:What massively telegraphed animations are you talking about? These which were boosted by nearly perma quickness?

Corona burst and holographic shockwave even with quickness you have a whole second to dodge. If you can't dodge that. That's your own fault for dying.Such inane comment .... I wonder how some individuals living without a brain...A hint:! Try to google cast times of these skills first before posting

3/4 down to 1/2. Half second is still alot of time. It's range is also only 300 now. If you can't dodge a half second skill and he's on top of you. That's your own fault.You used google, amazing, now learn to come with facts. Corona burst hit twice every 6s and its not the only thing that is a must dodge. It has way more problems than just "dodge 2 skills", for not being aware how OP holo(was) its your own fault

Cos I had zero problems with it. If you had that's your problem.

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@Odik.4587 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:
holo is underperforming
Good joke, you got me.Good luck man hope engi doesn't become like it was in the past where you guys get farmed by every thief without thought.Since when engi was farmed by every thief, especially "without a thought"??????

I remember during hot I would farm scrapper and some others too. it was fairly easy to outrun and kill on thief.Bunker spec... easly kill...on thief...wat ? Never heard or even remotely remember that SCRAPPER BEING FARMED by thieves

Well, keep in mind thief before the nerfs did have a ton more dmg. 3 or more years ago, before thief was as nerfed as it was, it had a ton of weight behind its attacks, and with its current mobility plus the un nerfed stealth, it could terrorize many classes. Before pulmonary impact was nerfed before stealth before deadeye came out back in the time where D/P, thieves were everywhere and great at 1V1. I remember that 2 years ago or so, I played thief and D/P was stronger than it is now, i also remember someone at that time complaining about engis and scrapper in SPVP.

Even after deadeye came out, you could combine D/D and do some pretty nice dmg with malice.

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@otto.5684 said:Holo is exactly where it needs to be. It is strong, but not ridiculous.

And OP, you do not have ridiculous uptime on stability sweety? Welcome to reality. It is more like 2 years too late.

Warrior has a lot of stunbreaks, stab, and condi cleanse. Same for guard. Renegade can bunker better than a Prot Holo, and herald has access to frequent stunbreaks and evade frames and dwarf stance gives stab if they go that route. Rangers have plenty of access to stability and stunbreaks. Thief has plenty of stunbreak and evade frame access, in addition to stealth. Mesmers have plenty of access to evade frames and can kite like mad. Elementalists: tempests have access to frequent stunbreaks, as do weavers (in addition to evade frames). Scrapper has gyros and barriers that make up for the lack of stab on tools line, and even then they can always use other traitlines for stab as people have indicated on here. It's only scourge, core necro and reaper that can be ping ponged to death in comparable fashion to holosmith right now, but at least core necro and reaper have access to a secondary life pool and can corrupt the stab of a Holo at the same time (I feel for scourge mains).

And yeah, people telling me to run other trait lines - you're essentially asking for rifle to be out of the viable competitive scene for holsmiths. It's already a sub par option to play sword-pistol, pistol-shield, pistol-pistol or even sword-shield (unless you bunker side node) for that matter. That literally leaves only rifle, and rifle is really restricted without the Tools line. maybe you could run something other than alchemy, though you'd lose Elixir E trait and that's a serious disadvantage.

Like I once I could at least disengage from warrior duels, but lately, I just haven't been able to. Also, I get CCed by weavers where I honestly should have some stab. Elixir B isn't as viable as people are suggesting, and especially not if you remove the Alchemy traitline from yourself.

Like it's in this unfortunate limbo.

Game balance is based on one's ability to counter play and I really do not see great options for counterplay in the current meta.

And no, I don't follow Metabattle; it's a decent place to find builds to base your own build off of, but perfection of a play comes from one's play style as well. Like people who run annulment on holo, yeah, maybe good if you fight 5 holos, but that's it.

And also, why hasn't the disengage photon forge bug been fixed yet? It's obvious to anyone who plays Holo...

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Holo Main here :)

Few things you should know! Rifle Holo has always been a spec that either quickly kills someone or gets easily killed by someone else ! It was never "meta" in NA because of how easy it is to shut them down.

The Nerf to elixir u was pretty big however match up's are all still the same only issue is less stab! Land Stab from corna more often/be smart with it and you'll be fine.

Rifle Holo imo has only ever been good in Rank where you can easily kill noobs other that you wont farm good players with it. matter fact i'll even bet that a player cant make legend playing rifle holo.

As for Prot holo it's only good Vs Dps Fb/Fire Weaver and Staff thief. It's main job is to hold Node Vs X amount of player. Other then that it's pretty useless in everything else =/ .

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