Think they will ever nerf these so called "can't lose" specs?

Like axe boonbeast, condi mesmer and s/p thieves? (these are just some of the examples). This circlejerk of hit and run till you are out of combat never ends

In the grand scheme of things that's governed by PvP balancing.

WvW balancing is more about groups greater than 5 people, whether it is 5-10, 10-20, 25+

• skills that have AoE
• skills that affect 5-10 people
• skills that cleave 3-5 people

If someone is stealthed they can't contest a capture point or capture it so you basically can count out those builds. Condi mesmers that aren't mirages (the evade on mirage still caps) have been nerfed in PvP already in terms of phantasms , while s/p thieves haven't been really as widespread. Boonbeast generally isn't overpowering unless it's on soulbeast against a glassy target (due to leader of the pack/oppressive superiority combined with merged bonuses to power/ferocity) : I'd say core ranger / druid isn't nearly as strong.

Why should those be nerfed, you hardly see them in 8n wvw? I cant even remember seeing a s/p thief in wvw the last month or longer. Most rangers i see are pew pew also.

@aspirine.6852 said:Why should those be nerfed, you hardly see them in 8n wvw? I cant even remember seeing a s/p thief in wvw the last month or longer. Most rangers i see are condi cancer tank build.FTFY.

i agree to an extent, but we also have to consider what losing is.

If you take a camp and a thief attacks you and they retreat, they clearly failed and "lost". If they try to take a camp and you stop them, and they run away, they "lost".

Sure they didn't die, but dying isn't really "losing". If your side wins a 30v30 fight with your help and you died, you didn't lose. And if you stayed at spawn 99% of the time and only came out to tag the downed, that really doesn't mean you won or did anything. It's about the impact you made. The result of a 1v1 or so simply is irrelevant in a game mode like this. Obviously if you died without doing anything, then yes, get gud.

Otherwise blobs that just sit in a t3 keep all day and hide behind siege would be perma-winning. Oh wait.

@Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:Like axe boonbeast, condi mesmer and s/p thieves? (these are just some of the examples). This kitten of hit and run till you are out of combat never ends

The moment you show us how you play it in multiple unedited back-to-back fights against people without pve builds. :D

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:i agree to an extent, but we also have to consider what losing is.

If you take a camp and a thief attacks you and they retreat, they clearly failed and "lost". If they try to take a camp and you stop them, and they run away, they "lost".

Sure they didn't die, but dying isn't really "losing".

LOL. No. Retreating isn't losing, especially when it leads to an advantage. He shadowsteps away, restealthed, oneshots you, because you blew your cooldowns, and you couldn't recover health because you were still in combat.Stop promoting that really stupid argument of "but he runs, so you won". This has never been true. This whole thief/ranger/spellbreaker/mesmer meta has to go finally. You can't give classes that many tools to survive and dps while others don't have them.

Recent events. I get hit from stealth for 15k malicious backstab, that's around 80% of my health (on 2k toughness) and my window to react is below 1sec before the thief re-enters stealth or shadowsteps/SB away to start the same thing again. So, my only option is to run the other way which is not an option, because I won't get out of combat and he outruns me. That's ridiculous gameplay and in any other game out there that would have been nerfed in the first three weeks of the game.And yes, this has to be patched and balanced finally or the game will die more and more.On one day of roaming you will see more thieves and rangers than any other class and that's a logical thing because "no risk, high reward gameplay".

I just seem to run into alot of pew pew rangers, block block block/ nike shoe warriors, dancing weavers and spin to win reapers outside of zerg.Some thief have picked up on that pistol whip thief is quite good in wvw while others are same rifle DE or normal thief that just keeps perma stealthing to hit you with a backstab.

So basically nearly all class have a roaming build that can easily kill u in 1-2secs.

**Waiting on people to catch up on the template bug scrapper build that can insta kill with all boons coming in from stealth.

Perma evade thief is ultimate cancer. He can make 100 mistakes in fight and you mess up one time you are dead. And why dagger strom is so broken compared kitten like eles tornado?

@gebrechen.5643 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:i agree to an extent, but we also have to consider what losing is.

If you take a camp and a thief attacks you and they retreat, they clearly failed and "lost". If they try to take a camp and you stop them, and they run away, they "lost".

Sure they didn't die, but dying isn't really "losing".

Uhh, if he does that, he didn't retreat lol. When I mean retreat I mean they just flat out disengage and never came back. That should be pretty evident by the examples I provided immediately after.

Being one shot is a separate issue.

@"gebrechen.5643" said:On one day of roaming you will see more thieves and rangers than any other class and that's a logical thing because "no risk, high reward gameplay".Do you? Do you really?

One day of roaming and I generally see more warriors, guards and necros than thieves, rangers or mesmers. Yes, that's right - even necros.

And at the end of the day, running alone is always high risk. And often zero reward while the 80+ man zoneblob rake in the bags.

Even if we have a duel to satiate their honor, it's likely that nobody else will recognize that. The longer the fight takes, the more likely other people will intervene. And considering people will think you're cheating in even fair fights and will sic 10-20 people to chase you across the map, the incentive to kill quickly is overwhelming.

While I agree some aspects of mobility and stealth need to be toned down, the fact is if all you can do is scream you got killed by a thief and call for a nerf, you will just get thieves resorting to even cheesier methods and play even more conservatively because there is zero incentive to fight you fairly anyways. Be specific! If Deadeye you think should be nerfed, then just flat out say Deadeye. Don't go slamming core and daredevil. #notallthieves

I mean, it's just going to happen. And short of deleting the classes, it's just going to happen. Some of you will never be happy until those classes are deleted.

Btw I just died to a ranger reading this thread.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:On one day of roaming you will see more thieves and rangers than any other class and that's a logical thing because "no risk, high reward gameplay".Do you?

Do you really

?

Well, duh, you can't see the thieves. xD

But in all seriousness after since they introduced mounts so that the fear of being ganked when running to zerg has dropped so drastically that it's no longer an issue. Even if you do get ganked, if you stall long enough, you'll usually get 10 other peeps on mounts on your end jumping on the guy anyways. Or the other side and then you die.... but at least it's quick. With templates around there is no excuse for "but I was in zerg build"

@Vasdamas Anklast.1607 said:Like axe boonbeast, condi mesmer and s/p thieves? (these are just some of the examples). This kitten of hit and run till you are out of combat never ends

I suspect they'll get an insignificant nerf that won't prevent them from carrying out their antics.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"gebrechen.5643" said:On one day of roaming you will see more thieves and rangers than any other class and that's a logical thing because "no risk, high reward gameplay".Do you?

Do you really

?

... and the 40 man zoneblob wipes to them.

What im waiting for is nerfs to firebrand and core guard, when is that happening?

Im more concerned with the firebrand nerfs and think that is way more important than touching thief or mesmer ever could.

Want to talk about broken? spamming that much stuff and having that much sustain is bad for WVW so when they gonna get hit?

Nah they will keep focusing on balance for big fights and not roaming specs. The peeps in comments of this post are the reason these and many more roaming builds ruin the gameplay experience for a solo players and small scale players in wvw.

The reality is that in the roaming aspect of wvw, there are some builds that are beyond broken. There is nothing in the game more broken and in need of immediate attention than this. But since they are not useful in 50man zergs, people dont care and justify their existence. By this logic scg should never be nerfed because its non existent in roaming. But not many will agree with this statement right lol.

@"Axl.8924" said:What im waiting for is nerfs to firebrand and core guard, when is that happening?

Im more concerned with the firebrand nerfs and think that is way more important than touching thief or mesmer ever could.

Want to talk about broken? spamming that much stuff and having that much sustain is bad for WVW so when they gonna get hit?

Don't worry, the following balance patch will read something like this:

"We've heard your concerns and we've taken a look at everything problematic. We're going to reduce damage by around 25% on all profession skills and reduce healing and boon support by 50% on all professions. Guardians will be getting a 150% boost to their damage potential and boon output to compensate. We've also buffed all Warrior skills by 100% because we felt they weren't performing how we'd like."

Went down the comments and you have soon whined about every class in the game.

Good job.

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Axl.8924" said:What im waiting for is nerfs to firebrand and core guard, when is that happening?

Im more concerned with the firebrand nerfs and think that is way more important than touching thief or mesmer ever could.

Want to talk about broken? spamming that much stuff and having that much sustain is bad for WVW so when they gonna get hit?

Sadly, you are probably quoting some internal memo of theirs for the new balance patch.

Everybody should have their own boons and do their own healing. Combos should be only way to heal other player.

I can't comment much on soulbeast and mirage as I don't play them, but I know that they are killable. You need boonrip or corrupt to kill a bunker soulbeast, and condi works well against mirages in general. S/P thief is probably the one I have the most issues with of the three, but it's worth noting that the S/P daredevil build has been around since HoT and if anything it's been nerfed since then due to pulmonary impact having it's damage halved and dash getting the exhaustion debuff. The only reason it's suddenly popular is because Sindrener has started running it recently, and it happens to fit the meta nicely. It seems unlikely to me that a build like this would have gone under the radar for so long (literally since HoT) if it was truly as OP as some people make it sound.

The only advice I can give you is to use your build templates to give yourself an advantage in specific situations. I main deadeye for solo roaming, so I have the standard glass deadeye build for quick kills and sniping players in larger groups. This build is easily outplayed if the opponent survives the initial burst so I also have my weird boonsteal S/D rifle deadeye build for killing bunkers (lots of boonsteal to steal protection, unblockable to pressure when projectile hate goes up and plenty of projectile hate of my own) and a condi P/D rifle DE build with lots of condi cleanse for killing problematic builds like condi mirages. These three builds are designed so that if something is strong against two of them, it's very likely to be vulnerable to the third. The last template slot is a S/P daredevil build with speed runes for mobility and fights where stealth isn't an option (like near towers or for capping sentries). My main counters are well played warriors and daredevils, since good warriors can just shrug off your damage and daredevil in general shuts down deadeye pretty easily.

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I can't comment much on soulbeast and mirage as I don't play them, but I know that they are killable. You need boonrip or corrupt to kill a bunker soulbeast, and condi works well against mirages in general. S/P thief is probably the one I have the most issues with of the three, but it's worth noting that the S/P daredevil build has been around since HoT and if anything it's been nerfed since then due to pulmonary impact having it's damage halved and dash getting the exhaustion debuff. The only reason it's suddenly popular is because Sindrener has started running it recently, and it happens to fit the meta nicely. It seems unlikely to me that a build like this would have gone under the radar for so long (literally since HoT) if it was truly as OP as some people make it sound.

Not saying S/P is op but considering most builds that are/used to be op (mirage, holo, ranger and the sort) got quite a few nerfs, builds such as s/p that received less nerfs (or barely no nerfs for other builds like dragonhunter) are starting to emerge as the stronger builds.

@Junkpile.7439 said:Everybody should have their own boons and do their own healing. Combos should be only way to heal other player.

Interesting notion, but wouldn't that make classes more similar to one another?

@Ubi.4136 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

@"Axl.8924" said:What im waiting for is nerfs to firebrand and core guard, when is that happening?

Im more concerned with the firebrand nerfs and think that is way more important than touching thief or mesmer ever could.

Want to talk about broken? spamming that much stuff and having that much sustain is bad for WVW so when they gonna get hit?

breathes heavy in Berserker

@Junkpile.7439 said:Everybody should have their own boons and do their own healing. Combos should be only way to heal other player.

And this was the original intent of GW2 wasnt it?