What do ppl want from warclaw and what should anet do? (and abit about downstate)

I dont play wvw, i see this from an outsider's prespective so i dont have a firsthand experience or opinion on the matter, but to me, ppl seem split as to what warclaw needs of doesnt need.

Anet released their roadmap and in it they share some details as to what they plan to do to the warclaw, a bunch of the commends are "why take away all the functionallity from the mount?" "i like the warclaw" "if you going to take it all away from the mount just remove it"

while elsewhere, other threads, discord and on random commends on sites and youtube iv seen ppl talk about how much they hate the mount, how it has ruined wvw and how op it is etc etc.

So whats the general opinion on the mount and what should anet do?

Id like this point to see some constructive feedback on the mount, what ppl legitimately think should or should not change about it and hopefully direct the feedback to the devs so a good middle ground can be found.

(oh also my totally outsider prespective and bias would like another week of no downstate, please i found that fun, maybe make it a default feature of wvw?)

(oh also my totally outsider prespective and bias would like another week of no downstate, please i found that fun, maybe make it a default feature of wvw?)

Personally I think you should be able to rent a warclaw until you can finish the reward track; subjecting people to an 4-8 hour unfun grind where they are constantly at a disadvantage is not a good thing. (plus they miss masteries and crap). I think it is sad that people would gleefully avoid any fight on a mount while telling new people "they have to earn it" when the former probably could instantly get their mount when it came out. The rental warclaw would have no features you would get from the ability points (no stomp, etc)

The warclaw is honestly fine as a whole. Personally I think the engage skill should be weaker because it's already a massive advantage entering a fight like this-- you either do a good chunk of damage/force a dodge, gap close, are essentially blocking damage while you're on your mount, and get to choose the engagement. It scales with gear which doesn't make sense since none of the other stats are affected. Nothing should be stat related on a mount.

I also think the stun if you get dismounted by damage should be higher too.

Using warclaws to soak up damage is another issue. You can use it to set off marks or traps at little risks to yourelf.

"the move faster in own territory" is annoying because it encourages passive play-- it encourages people to stick to their end so they can just gank who comes across and hug their territory to avoid all fights. Because your own territory is closer to spawn, being able to mount to all your objectives is already a massive advantage.

People don't like the mount because it allows people to dodge fights or be picked off en route to a destination. But it has the good side of not turning the game mode into a walking simulator. Small scale combat is considered super lame in a game mode with already super lame combat, so it is not surprising that people would not want to deal with it.

Imo, warclaw needs to be removed. It basically allows for instant melee combat since it can evade up to 3 times and comes with an extra 10k HP to avoid most if not all ranged attacks while gap closing.

If it is to stay, warclaw should draw its HP and stamina the rider, rather than having an extra 10K HP and extra dodges.

@"zealex.9410" said:So whats the general opinion on the mount and what should anet do?Yeah so about that "general opinion"... see first replies.

There is no general opinion. You got people claiming its already nerfed to uselessness, people that want it nerfed and people that want it deleted.

You'd think people could agree on a middle ground, but no. It aint gonna happen. This is the same argument as the game is dead yet the servers are stacked.

Personally I would like to see it removed. I know that won't happen, but that's my opinion.

How I would change it without deleting it:

Remove the mount stomp2 dodges instead of 3Change sniff so that it either works if used while airborne or doesn't go on cooldown if used while airborne (currently if you use this skill in the air, it does not work but will go on cooldown)Make it so that character attributes don't benefit the warclaw (For example, if you have durability runes, the warclaw will get the 10% health bonus)Lower its speed in the alpine borderlands and EGB.Make the lance skill dismount the player if it hits a targer, period. (Not just if it hits another warclaw)Lower its health by ~35%

To avoid getting banned I wont tell what anet should do with the warclaw.

It did make WvW even more boring. Sometimes it takes HOURS to get a camp, because when I'm fighting against three and kill them one by one, the first killed is back, when I did kill the third one. Do you really thing that it is fun to kill 90 times one char, just to get one boring dailiy?

Do you really thing that it is fun to kill 90 times one char, just to get one boring dailiy?

I'd rather have 90 kills than 67s and 3 AP tbh.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:So whats the general opinion on the mount and what should anet do?Yeah so about that "general opinion"... see first replies.

This +1

Essentially the WarClaw affects different play-styles and goals differently, in mutually exclusive ways.

• As is or buffed, it would make it very difficult for fighting interested roamers to engage any players at all.
• If removed, the majority of zergs and most defenders would be angry because they can't get back into the action fast enough.
• If you nerf some aspects of the mount, different play-styles gets affected to different levels.

The mount is a giant QoL upgrade for a lot of players, but it is also something that wasn't designed/balanced for when WvW was designed in the first place so it changes a lot of parameters that the mode was built around. Examples like traveling speed back to camp being captured, time back to zerg/reinforcements, having to build for speed/escape-ability in the build with other costs, CC immunity. (And many players will gloss over those and say those aren't fun for them etc, but that doesn't change that it can negatively affect the mode in general depending upon how it interacts).

I do agree that the mount is here to stay and we're not getting rid of it, I personally think it should be weakened a bit in different ways, but not made useless. Though I can't say exactly how it should be nerfed as I don't have a good enough grasp of how it interacts with all the play-styles in the mode. Removing the "home territory speed" is a good start though, I'd probably also reduce speed overall to swiftness level or just above, basically make it a permanent swiftness without having to work to keep it up without leaving players without the mount behind. It would still be a QoL but not a major advantage.

Warclaw is fine now as it is.But I suppose its main purpose now is to give the WvW guy at Anet something to fiddle with while everything else goes to shit.

if people play hot potato to see who will get off warclaw first, so the mounted player has the advantage of 3 extra dodges, then something is wrong.

I prefer having Warclaw , because i dont trust the company to balance properly the Open World PvP .

If it makes roamers to feel better:Attacking a mounted player , creates a debuff that keep stacking as you attack him (7.000 total stored damage for example).Every single time he dismount he would take that amount of damage .If more roamers keep stacking more and more debuff that exceed his Total HP , he wont go into downstate but simply die next time he dissmount .In order to remove it you have 3 options :a) Travel to your base (its just like dying and forcing you to run all the way again + also give rewards as if he died)b) Hit an other mounted player for that amount of damage (forcing him to runs in his base , or hit another player / chain reaction)c) Die at the feet of your friendly zerg (but offer WvWvW score to the enemy)

Other silly ideas :When you mount is lanced and die , his carcass remains for 30 sec .It can be used as a n object that offer cover from projectiles and by right clicking it allows to to jump over to the other side of the mount , to counter meele players

Useless ideas :Mounts are effected by player statsBerseker = current verion (3 dodges) + 5% increased movement speed + the player can shoot with a manually-aim bow every 3 sec + but lanced is removedToughness = no dodges , but in order to dissmount him you have to hit the mount head/horn/lying orb x3 times (but not from behind) + he has a straightforward charge-dissmount attack .

Just get rid of it. The Warclaw is a disaster for WvW.

@"Stephen.6312" said:Just get rid of it. The Warclaw is a disaster for WvW.

I was about to say quite the same thing but for the opposite reason. I'm one of the players who only use the warclaw for the features you (ANet) are about to remove. If it's slower than going by feet, just remove the warclaw and refund gems to all people who bought skins because Warclaw is becoming this :

2. ~~2 Your warclaw moves faster in territories you own. ~~
3. ~~3 Your warclaw gains an extra stamina bar. ~~
4. Quite Useless Battle Maul now finishes enemies who are in a downed state.
5. Useless Unlock a second skill that allows your warclaw to detect enemies.
6. Useless Unlock a third skill that allows your warclaw to pull on gates to damage them.
7. Become useless Unlock a fourth skill that enables you to throw a spear at a mounted player, dismounting you both.

So I join Stephen to say : just remove warclaw from the game

Would be good to see the plan for changes to downed and defeated, plays a part in the issue of the mount and mobility.

@knite.1542 said:Personally I would like to see it removed. I know that won't happen, but that's my opinion.

How I would change it without deleting it:

Remove the mount stomp

With this i will be happy.

seems like people just dont want it at all (everyone picking out different reasons why they dont like it) but you know if they removed it people would come out of the wood works (many people who said get rid of it) complaining that wvw never gets anything or that they want it back.

Generally all they need to do is remove the evades from the movement skill. Make the movement skill better in some way to make up for the loss of evades (make it jump farther) or give you a small speed boost for 2s after 1 use. Remove the spear skill as a result of the mount no longer having evasive mechanics especially sense there will no be 0 way to counter the spear. Not every person wants to be forced into a fight especially if they are trying to get to a specific place.

There still needs to be some bit of moment speed increase above walking with swiftness or it defeats the point of the mount completely. The mount becomes more of a hinderance if its QoL features are reduced to the point its more punishing to ride than not to ride it at all.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

. Not every person wants to be forced into a fight especially if they are trying to get to a specific place.

Then I would suggest they don’t want to be in an open world PvP zone.

There still needs to be some bit of moment speed increase above walking with swiftness or it defeats the point of the mount completely.

I agree. Personally I would like the mount removed, but if it’s kept to a primary speed boost, I am ok

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

.

Not every person wants to be forced into a fight especially if they are trying to get to a specific place.

There still needs to be some bit of moment speed increase above walking with swiftness or it defeats the point of the mount completely.

I mean it does not even need to be insanely faster than someone with swiftness just like a minor thing you wont notice it unless you run a long distance side by side with someone unmounted.

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

.

Not every person wants to be forced into a fight especially if they are trying to get to a specific place.

I do understand what you mean. You assume it’s a roamer. And it may be random. However, on our server, we are looking for those players to cut off reinforcements to allow us to cap the structure because too many people get back too quickly.

It’s a double edge sword honestly. Both sides have something to lose and something to gain.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@ZDragon.3046 said:

.

Not every person wants to be forced into a fight especially if they are trying to get to a specific place.

Well i dont know what you would class yourself as if you are out alone looking for other players to drop either you are a roamer or a small squad looking to do smaller bites of damage.

It’s a double edge sword honestly. Both sides have something to lose and something to gain.

In any case you are correct here i just dont want warclaw to end up being one of those things that gets cut so much its just a fashion statement because using it is literally pointless. The biggest aspect of it is obviously its mobility and and even just removing the speend bonus in controlled areas will be a big game changer especially when chasing or escaping a fight

@"ZDragon.3046" said:

If a keep is under attack and you die and you want to get back to the keep, but spot a roamer coming toward on the way there in the distance and want to prioritize getting to the keep.... Why should the roamer just instantly have the power to force you into combat with 0 counter play? Thats all im saying the roamer attempting to force you into combat is fine but there should still be some form of counter play in the event you just want to go to the Keep to defend. Sometimes you might have objectives in mind that take pirority over a rifle dead eye wanting a shoot out.1 lance every 30sec,1 dodge is ~6seven 1 dodge is enough to counter lance, just need to know the timing of the dodge by looking at the visuals, don't need sound. I think the problem with a lot of people is that they like to go in straight lines whether mounted or unmounted.

I mean it does not even need to be insanely faster than someone with swiftness just like a minor thing you wont notice it unless you run a long distance side by side with someone unmounted.I think Warclaw running at perma swiftness or superspeed is enough, it doesn't need that hp buffer though, as well as the cc immunity, and 1 dodge is fine."But what if there are more than 1 of them to dismount me blah blah gank?" - the result would more or less be the same with or without the mount.

If people think all the stuff getting changed on the warclaw is unfair, think of those who don't even get to use a mount in the first place, whether as a new player or someone who does not have pof. They don't have access to fancy pants lance either.

I think warclaw would just be best if the original intention was followed and nothing more, just as a tool to get from a->b slightly faster, no additional gimmicks. Chain pull does not need to be there, maul stomp does not need to be there, even lance can be removed along with the dodges especially if cc immune was removed. Sniff was useful but meh, it's more exciting not to know the zerg behind the wall. It has too much things, and not to mention many of the exploits of kitty jumping were never fixed. It's very much a zero risk and crutch. There is also still the one shot maul still, and another new thing recently which I don't want to discuss here because it's plain stupid. Aegis is still there, only lance ignores it, so they did not even fix the underlying issue, just band aid the lance. There are also other additional issues, but probably better not said here as it is very easily abused.I think the warclaw can still be attractive serving just as a faster shuttle to return to fight. and nothing more. Not avoid all fights, but the chance of fleeing from one on the way. The player has to still follow the safest path to get there, not just a straight line. There still has to be risk, not 0 risk and teaching the wrong things to newer players like fight avoidance and being afraid of every single confrontation. Do we really want more crutches as the quality of players drops? There will be less people to fight if they are all afraid to get a booboo.

From the wiki

It is the slowest mount.

Its base Movement Speed in WvW is about 453 u/s[3], which is a 54% increase over standard movement out of combat or a 16% increase over out of combat movement >speed with Swiftness.Its movement speed in PvE and in allied controlled territories with the second ability unlocked is about 539 u/s, which is a 83% increase over standard movement out of >combat or a 37% increase over out of combat movement speed with Swiftness.Continuously using the movement ability further increases the effective movement speed to about 590.

When anet is saying they plan on removing the mastery, they are removing the second part. The mount is still faster than even movement with swiftness/superspeed (which is capped at 400). Removing the additional speed in allied territories is a very specific nerf directed at a small subset of problematic instances (running back from spawn to your home keep repeatedly when its under assault, a larger enemy zerg rushing down a smaller havoc trying to cause problems behind enemy lines). People who are complaining about this nerf, in my opinion, have absolutely no idea what they are talking about and I hope ANET completely ignores them.

The 3 bars of endurance was equally problematic but for different reasons. Mainly in its allowance of a player to 'leap' over and through a zerg with zero consequence. Two bars is more than enough, one bar imo affects skill ceiling more than it should.

The warclaw will still be faster than running. It will still allow for players to 'pick' downstates off in a pseudo no downstate week fashion. It will still be a superior scouting tool due to sniff and ability to avoid CC. It can still... hurt... gates... sort of...? It still does all the things it needs to do. These are good changes. If you don't think they are good changes I will venture to guess you don't actually understand the problems or the warclaw.

There’s no need to remove it. They just need to strip it of all tactical advantage and make it so you can use any mount in WvW, strictly for cosmetic purposes.

The warclaw should have always been purely cosmetic and be very hard to obtain as a trophy for being a good WvW player, to which can be discussed as to what makes a good WvW player.

The rushed implementation of the Warclaw has put a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because of the abusable leap that came with it. It's as if Anet never tested it.The Q1 2020 "road map" addressed some of its issues, but the structure bypass was ignored. Even today there are still spots on all the maps where the warclaw leap would bypass outer and inner walls.

@"TwoGhosts.6790" said:Warclaw is fine now as it is.But I suppose its main purpose now is to give the WvW guy at Anet something to fiddle with while everything else goes to kitten.

I agree wholeheartedly.

I think it is fun to use. I can dismount people if I want. And people surely have not had an issue dismounting and killing me pretty quick. Dodging feature is decried more than it deserves. Rarely has I allowed me to get away. The only good it has done is allowed me to get in to defend an objective, but I guess that's bad because now the enemy will have to wait five ehole minutes while I delay them -- cue the quivering lip.

I am getting irritated by these "fixes" for fix sake, like getting rid of fall damage -- because who knows why. I have never really understood the hatred for the warclaw. But I see few people not using it. Literally takes no time at all to get one, and unless you have a server full of free accounts, no one has a big advantage. Before I got mine, I didn't really have a problem keeping up. Probably shouldn't say that or speed boosts will be on the chopping block next. "Well, in light of the mounts, people don't need to run faster."

One of the purported fixes is to slow it down in owned areas. Once again enemy zergs get another advantage over defenders. Because of course the enemy will have the advantage of speed, so can run back faster. Meanwhile our spawn is contested and will have just as long to get back, but at a slower rate.

They say they want to bring back epic fights, but cave to those who can't be bothered spending more than two seconds taking an objective.