I would give up an entire YEAR of content updates for a Necromancer rework

this class needs a rework SO MUCH in order to fix its many issues and make it fun again to play. and to be played in endgame PVE without being a joke. and I mean by a joke as you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value. be it for damage or support. because as of now in PVP/WVW necro is a boon corrupt bot and in PVE it is nothing. yes there is a power reaper build but its nothing that good. I do love this class but I HATE how Anet has treated it over the years, and seeing this "what to expect in 2020" just made me think of how I would give up all the content updates just for a necro rework to make the class fun, more balanced, and just EASIER to balance instead of having to GUT it in so many places JUST FOR BALANCE.

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

Maybe that's true ... but then again, I think you will find that most players don't choose classes to play because of 'value'. It's primarily a theme-based decision. If your decision to choose a class IS based on value ... then you have lots of choice available to you without Anet embarking on a fool's errand to add another in a continuously evolving game system. This is more about players making good decisions, not about something wrong with a class.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If a class ends up being below DPS of every class and by quite a bit while also playing as DPS, its bad.If a class is so badly designed, that people can't decide if its a support or condi such as scourge, its really bad.

This game is not just about speedruns, and classes should not be prevented from doing raids for being too niche, because that is a sign of a terrible videogame.

If all the sudden banner warriors became useless because of being nerfed, It would be a no brainer that they would get angry and take out their pitchforks. Being at the bottom because you are a support class and you actually do really make up for it would be one thing, butt necros hold no such thing, so its time to buff necromancers in PvE.

Remember WOW when I think it was paladins who were sunwelled? well, they were very angry. What it means to be sun welled, is to be told you cannot raid.There is a stigma right now against necros and have for years, and they need to fix scourge and buff reaper in PVE. People don't come to this game to sit only on the bench and warm the bench while everyone else gets to play, so of course, necromancers resent ANET.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

not just scourge and reaper but core necro needs a overall. like I said a FULL rework of the entire class and some major changes to the elite specs are needed for the health of necromancer in this game. because as necro sits at this time. in PVE it is a joke with a reaper power build that is the but end of DPS. and in PVP/WVW they are nothing but boon corrupt bots. that is it and nothing more

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

So the question is if bad matters. From what I can see, it doesn't, because being bad doesn't prevent people from choosing the class, playing and being successful in the game. There is a reason for that ... the game is designed so you don't need to be in the top tier of performance to succeed. Classes aren't prevented from doing raids if the people playing them know how to play. If you want performance, make the right choices ... JUST like you make the choice to play necro NOT because of performance.

This argument has been going on for over 6 years now ... and what I say only gets more true every day that passes. Time for people to wake up and realize how this game works.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

Good bad is not the question, limitation is the question.

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game.

Skill does help a lot, but the point is that necro needs better tools to get things done.

Also notice how a lot of folks have quit the game because of lack of fun factor.

Say for instance you are playing necro, and some warrior leaps at you 300 yars and insta gibs you, it isn't fun. If that war runs to wards you ultra fast and ccs you constantly then 1 shots you, it isn't fun, and it takes away agency.

Necro does have some tools, the problem is it lacks the tools deal with the amount of ridiculous power creep in this game, such as godmode 1shot warriors super speedy 1shot soulbeast.

Necros got nerfed unfairly in sustain when they shouldn't have been touched, and necro needs return of tools to survive better in 1v1.

Mind you, i am mentioning PVP now, where necro needs a lot of help to survive.

Also let me remind you once again:In world of warcraft when paladins got sunwelled(literally forced to be a benchwarmer who got no chance to raid) they were angry about it. Necros get unfair hate and then on top of that got tons of nerfs in the past that brought them down again. Reaper is still like 29-30k DPS which is still well below every class, and don't give me that kitten ridiculous sustain thing, because other classes have ridiculous tools that are power creeped and they are able to keep their dps, and some have good tools that help the team that are desired like warriors eles for instance guardians mesmers.

It would be one thing if you were quite good in 3 things like bards in eq druids in eq who get decent heals and some decent dps because they are true hybrids, then i can understand, but most classes are at least a bit desired in PVE raids. Eles don't have problems and they were at the top since forever. Also keep in mind some people might want to main one class, i know its hard to understand that for some folks, not everyone wants to play every class all the time to raid.

Eles are better healers for instance don't have some stupid kitten thing where if you drop a shade you have to sacrifice all your sustain to buff folks and have a huge downtime.

They have better condi probably(weaver)Power they do more damage(tempest)

scourge:like 10k below mesmers it was, still really low below everyone now, and barriers got nerfed.Reaper is decent dps but i think should be doing around same dps as other dps classes.

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

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@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

Agreed, but to be clear, it wasn't me that brought that into this discussion, it was you because you want to make this into an argument about relative performance in teams, which has NEVER been a compelling reason to change any class.

People aren't choosing necro for performance, yet we still have necros being played, teamed, doing content, succeeding and getting loot. So as soon as your premise for necro improvements jump into 'being limited' as a performance, they don't make sense because success in this game isn't around the level of performance that you claim is preventing necros from being included.

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game.

Considering PVE isn't competitive, the idea you are 'limited in outplaying' is not making much sense. That's more an indication people have more to learn about how to play if they chose Necro.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

The first part is relating to PVP and frustration of SPVP as a necro without someone babysitting you at all times.

If you solo queue you get put against classes that use unfair 1shot builds and have almost 0% chance, unless they are stupid and ignore you, but once you get focused? dead.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

Sustain is important yes, but a class so selfish, and damage right now matters a lot in getting group.

If ele can deal 38-40k dps and does it well e nough while supporting, why choose class b? thats the question of the day.

My necro/minion master is by far my main character. He is tons of fun to play. He is also the only character I have that can survive in HoT. I breeze right through PoF. I don't know my DPS but I do well enough in group play. During the Queen's Pavilion I regularly got looting rights on pretty much every critter out there. I send my minions out to fight and I lay marks all over the place. While they fight I can run around and rez people who fall down. During the Queen's Pavilion I was quite often getting invites into squads (or whatever they call it)

I see no problem with the necro. He has been my main since GW2 came out, and has never let me down.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

I can see as well that ANet doesn't balance to performance (imo they should, but they don't). First of all, I don't like that ANet doesn't communicate clearly about these things. But what I hate the most by far, is that you don't get the trade-off with these kind of impactful gamedesign choices. Imo, a system where class balance doesn't really matter performance-wise, you should have a VERY easy 'switching class system', where you can "port" all your legendary's, runes, sigils, infusions, etc. with all its benefits and perks with one click of a button, to any of your other characters. A bit like how it's done in PvP. Once unlocked, it's available on all other classes on your account. But there's another design choice from ANet that heavily conflicts with that, and that is: MONEY!There is obviously an alternative, and that's to (regularly) balance the classes on performance ...

@Tukaram.8256 said:My necro/minion master is by far my main character. He is tons of fun to play. He is also the only character I have that can survive in HoT. I breeze right through PoF. I don't know my DPS but I do well enough in group play. During the Queen's Pavilion I regularly got looting rights on pretty much every critter out there. I send my minions out to fight and I lay marks all over the place. While they fight I can run around and rez people who fall down. During the Queen's Pavilion I was quite often getting invites into squads (or whatever they call it)

I see no problem with the necro. He has been my main since GW2 came out, and has never let me down.

There is a big difference between open world pve and Raids and fractals, huge difference in fact.

Once you get to around tier 2 fractals, you get boons on enemies and they throw more conditions, and you got to be more strategic.

Tier 3 and 4 even more so.

And raids? well dps does mat ter because the faster you kill, the less time that raid boss has to rotate its abilities, and thus less chance for something dangerous to kill the group.

If you love necromancers, and want to play it, you shouldn't be forced to play another class to be able to enjoy the game to its fullest.

I mean there is a reason why people ran 10scourge raids, heck they still do. you dont have to have the best dps ever. peeps take 10scourge spam 10k dps and ignore all mechanics becouse hurr durr permashields.DPS is not the only thing worth considering, its also CC. Survivability and difficulty. Reaper is one if not the easiest dps to play. Its very tanky compared to most other DPS and has selfsustain in for of lifesteal AND extra hp shroud. That also has to be considered.

EDIT to put this into perspective, assuming every scourge in the party deals 5k DPS ( its uber duper low btw ) cair with 20mil hp, takes 50k dmg/s meaning he dies in 400s -> under 7min.

I honestly think scourge is fine as a support but perhaps the condition dps aspects should be replaced with more support oriented traits to give it more flexibility (e.g. a choice between more barrier or additional boons) while opening up the condition dps role to core.Power reaper is almost fine but it needs higher dps as it is currently outperformed by all other classes. The hp difference does not justify the low dps when other builds do not only have more dps (and in the case of warrior also similar hp) but also more utility, including defensive tools which more than make up for the hp difference while being equally easy to learn (warrior, condition firebrand, power dh).Core necro needs better condition application in shroud and maybe a second useful weapon combination but if shroud turns out strong enough, swapping to staff and just using marks before going into shroud just to swap back to scepter when you leave shroud again might turn out good enough.

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

Sure ... PVP IS a performance value proposition ... so I won't argue that ... this is reasonable to expect some 'equivalent performance' over classes in PVP.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

That's a bit vague to me. If you could solo the content you are complaining about and the rewards were related to how well you could do that, you might have a relationship between 'how it fares' and 'performance'. Until then, that content is team-based and the rewards are either ON or OFF, and the threshold for success is contained within average performance standards. The reward for high performance is simply saving time ... and the choices are available to players to do that if that's what they want to do. Make smart choices if that's what you are after; otherwise, it's just a L2P issue.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

Open world doesn't matter, anyone can do that, but performance in fractals and raids are a part of content, and it should perform adequately to be viable.

Mesmers for instance can do good in open world so can ele so can warr guard and rangers. Some are more difficult than others in open world sure, such as when i played mes i felt kinda squishy when caught, but so long as i used my skills correctly, i could do well. Performance wise comparations is i think going to have similarities, just with skills placed in different areas and cc and mobility.

But Performance wise for balance reasons, you want everyone who learns to play said classes to not be left out just because they chose a class, i hope you understand.Limitations to dps that are hard coded aren't L2P doing 10k or more less than others in condi for scourge isn't l2P no matter how you place it. Is reaper viable for fractals? yes, but don't tell me to shut up DPS doesn't matter who cares. If there is a fire in the building, even a tiny one in a trashcan, then best to put it out before it becomes a larger issue, if you understand the metaphor.

Reaper's dps at max level is around 29-30k which is well beneath for instance warriors who also have support eles thief soulbeast guardians.

In world of warcraft which im going to use another example, good balance has at most 1-2k difference between classes of DPS to balance it out. 1-2k isn't much a problem, but 5 or more k is a lot, and enough of a excuse to pick someone else over. Large disparities between classes is bad for the game, and there is also room for improvement as well for necromancers in terms of either making the CC we have more useful to groups, or giving mobs in raids a ton of boons to corrupt.

I also learned how you get said dps with ramp ups also effects modes. A good example is warlocks for M+ because they got huge ramp up and are unable to keep up with large packs so how you deliver dps and how much matters no matter what you say. If warr can do instant bombs with little to no ramp up and if for instant ele could do 40k but with such ramp they couldn't keep up,it would effect their usages. Look at what classes are taken for modes for fractals and raids.

Another thing is, bad balance can create class elitism and bad blood between players and certain classes. See a class with bad rep being unequal? never invite them.

This happened in wow for keys for warlocks, and i'l admit the balance sounds atrocious. I don't care what folks say, that is not good balance, people come to have fun and enjoy this game andbe able to do all the modes.

If this does happen, then boon corrupt must continue to exist. Personally i would get rid of the problematic stuff such as epi. I never liked epi much, and hate the over dependency on it.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

... and it does, because people team with necros all the time and succeed doing that content. It's a team effort, so individual performance is not as critical to success AND the design of that content ensures the level of individual performance you claim is necessary on necro is not necessary.

Honestly, you're arguing that necro needs a individual performance improvement based on team-based content with a low threshold for success that necros already participate in and succeed. Think about how little sense that makes.

@Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

I love this idea ... an equipment pool that any of your characters could pull from perhaps? I could very easily see how this could be monetizes so it doesn't conflict with Anet's business. I doubt it will happen now, but still, I like it.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

Ele is only really used in Fractals and it's rare that you find a ele that knows what there doing, which is why Dh is now the most popular class to use for damage aswell as Ele needing alot of attention to be able to lay down its damage is pretty hard to find if you are solo grouping

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

But literally, anyone can do Open world with practically any build, it's not the same as with raids or high tier fractals, where you have to put more attention into your class.

For fractals its a different story, because you really need to think about what's effective, such as having reaper rips helps a lot in tier 3, or having lots of cleanses.There are also tons of AOE and movement and you got to be more mindful. Things like sustain you bring what kind of mobility you have all count, which is why tier 1 you can just mess around without knowing much about thief as I did with condi teef. Afterall: A dead or downed character is a minus to damage to a boss in raids.

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

Last i remembered, tempest was viable in raids as power DPS unless I'm outta date and them throwing meteors and lava font strategy plus summoning weapons no longer works in raids. They did get buffed unless another nerf hit them.

I can't be sure about weaver because i can't play it.

adding an edit because I remembered one thing: Since I practiced ele more than most classes, and am more familiar with it, and i do remember hearing staff being less effective in raids on small targets, so what you said could partially relate to that, because I do remember meteor being really effective for big groups, and scepter or dagger warhorn being maybe better for small targets, but i also remember lava font being a part of the rotation along with lightning hammer and the storm glyph.

Also part of scepter warhorn or even dagger is mobility and sustain, it can be pretty effective, and in my opinion ele should be really effective as healers because of things like magnetic field for fighting the ballistas, plus prot. Water for clearing condis, which ele can be good at(but i think not as good as druids, nor as effective)

A rebound could be useful as a shout combined with those heals, so there is plenty of reason to bring you guys for high tier fractals. I think necros too have plenty of reason to be brought for high fractals.

Its raids that are iffier, and bringing support necro becomes more problematic.

We can be useful to strip buffs like thieves with buff stripping, but Necro healing isn't that good, and there are better support classes to bring than necro.

need buffers? firebrand literally is the best and prob has quickness and alacricity which it shouldn't because that is a mesmer thing, you bad boys.Healers? well druids are the best in terms of clearing condis with celestial avatar combined with other traits.

@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Xxnecroxx.4039 said:... you could literally replace the necro with many other classes and get MUCH more value ...

If you are limited in tools to outplay folks, and the other classes are so power creeped that there is very little to no chance to outplay due to them having too much of everything, it becomes a frustrating game. I think everything just needs nerfed so there is more counterplay and less cheese builds that are toxic 1 shots from invis.

For PVE:

How well a class fares is indicated by its performance

Yeah, I'm not in disagreement with that.

For fractals its a different story, because you really need to think about what's effective, such as having reaper rips helps a lot in tier 3, or having lots of cleanses.There are also tons of AOE and movement and you got to be more mindful. Things like sustain you bring what kind of mobility you have all count, which is why tier 1 you can just mess around without knowing much about thief as I did with condi teef. Afterall: A dead or downed character is a minus to damage to a boss in raids.

I don't disagree with any of that .. but it doesn't change what I said either. It reinforces it actually. Nothing you said here lends to the idea that necro needs improvement because of performance in high end instanced content so I'm not really sure what to say.

One thing is clear ... let's not pretend the OP isn't talking about DPS and getting endgame instanced content PUGS, because he is. That's the ONLY place where what he's talking about 'prevents' necros from being teamed. That's about making good choices ... at the player side because Anet chasing meta isn't a solution to that.

Anet screwed up with elite specs. Class design should have been made only concerning pvp and wvw, and pve just gets number tweaks. Instead elite specs were mostly designed for pve and after years of people complaining and leaving, anet has decided to start "reworking" them which really just messes them up in every gamemode.

I agree, necro does need a rework in some fashion, but I do feel like people don't give it credit in pvp. It's true that necromancer has a hard time in pvp as a duelist: everyone knows their cards, and they have the least attack mitigation mechanics of any class (blocks, blinds, etc.). However, they're not useless: I find myself VERY capable of dueling against most any class that isn't a really skilled revenant or a superspeed soulbeast/ranger nowadays. Furthermore, I can actually synergize with my team better when I have a reliable support through taking spite over blood magic, and I'm not just a boon rip bot at mid since I apply good lockdown conditions and fear with my attacks as well. Really though, necromancer's solo-play success is largely because of positioning and kiting, which is an unhealthy design in retrospect. I have to use speed runes in order to constantly keep range against high melee classes like sagebrands or warriors, and even then they have some absurd gap closers that I can only counter with spectral ring due to teleports or evades. Taking one hit from a sagebrand can leave me inflicted with seven different conditions, 3 damaging and 4 debilitating, and, while that is an issue with firebrand for sure, it absolutely punishes me given my cleanses are scarce or tied to extremely vital mechanics I can't toss around freely. However, I do find myself very geared against some builds, for instance PU core mesmers get destroyed by tainted shackles' reveal when I combo shroud entry, shackles, and terrify all at once after they go close range for the spike. Overall, I'd say core necromancer has the most reliable style in spvp of the necromancer styles, but I do feel like there's definitely some ways they could and should buff necromancer. Core shroud feels far too small scale/single target in terms of its 1-3 skills, has too little for sustained pressure, and lacks stunbreaks, which can be considered a tradeoff for such high vitality and defenses in shroud but is also part of the reason necromancers aren't fully capable against some classes, e.g. warriors that stunchain after shroud entry. However, spvp isn't the whole picture. Way I see it, curses line and spite line have some awkward design, where the complementary mechanics, aka boonrips and corrupts, overshadow the damage aspects of these lines. If there's one thing I'd like to see necromancer have, is more static mechanical shroud-buffing traits in the spite/curses lines instead of in soul reaping. It's understandable that one line would buff the class mechanic, but given shroud is SO intensely integrated into nearly any style of necromancer aside from minionmancer, it leaves soul reaping as this awkward jack of all trades necessity for any build, and overshadows synergy between any two lines that don't include soul reaping when taking elite specs. For instance, curses has a really cool precision buff, a neat critical buff against high condition enemies, and some other random things like chill and weakness that synergize with power reaper in some fashion, but you can't do that unless you want to give up a HUGE portion of your shroud damage and generation, which leaves you super vulnerable even in open world. Another good example is the passive signet trait in blood magic (which unfortunately doesn't synergize at all with signets of suffering, which is a shame because it could provide a super interesting recovery option for core if so). Similarly, soul reaping in my opinion would be neat to have as a more boon oriented defensive/utility line to match spectral skills (their previously complementary utility skill set) theme. I enjoy the growing ability to maintain shroud for longer periods through traits that can affect shroud pool while shroud replaces health, which makes for a very nice line for having some lingering sustain in shroud for pvp and the likes. I feel like if this line were to affect necromancer in the sense of boons, shroud regeneration, and possibly mobility, it'd give it a new niche that would free up the offensive traits for curses and spite, thus removing the dependency on all forms of necromancer that don't use minions as meat shields upon soul reaping. Also, there's some mechanical stuff in reaper that could use buffing, e.g. how the 2 skill casts the full charge even if you're already in the enemy's face, or misses your target completely if casted from range and they move erratically, and in my opinion death's charge could be reworked to operate akin to warrior's rush attack that triggers the final hit upon being in range of the enemy instead of at the end of the cast. Shouts also are underperforming in general outside of open world, and it'd be wonderful to fill some of the gaps in reaper with those abilities, such as adding a new buff that prevents movement reduction conditions after casting "Nothing Can Save You", seeing as such mechanics are growing in accessibility as seen in dolyak stance. One might be able to put some extra damage buffs on shouts to give reapers that static damage increase they need. I guess what I'd want my most important takeaway from this massive chunk to be is that spite and curses underperform as damage lines because they have so little effect on shroud in the form of buffing the skills damage-wise (seeing as they have loads of boon removal tied to shroud abilities but nothing more) and soul reaping is overperforming as a necessity, which doesn't mean it should be nerfed, but rather that its vital damage oriented traits could very well be redistributed throughout the offensive traitlines to better make shroud a mechanic that orients itself throughout the traitlines instead of being heavily dependent on soul reaping for such benefits. Transfusion is a good example of putting important shroud effects in lines that aren't soul reaping, and I feel like it's a good model to tether other effects to the rest of the arsenal of shroud attacks (seeing as no skills affect the third or fifth skill). Also, signets in general should get a buff or revamp (aside from maybe undeath's passive ;)). That's all folks.

See what i mean.

It needs a rework, but at this rate I'm not keeping my hopes up.

I'm feeling this. I've been going necro for 2 years now, mostly in WvW. I wish I had a few more tools for survivability and damage. Scourge was so much fun in the beginning and now I'm just...eh. It's not going strong currently.