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Marshal Gear


Ciphyr.7306

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You’ll mostly hear about gear in the context of full glass DPS and full support builds for raiding. Marshal doesn’t quite tick those boxes, but it’d be a solid PvE set for barrier builds using Weaver or Scourge, Auramancer builds, and anything that works with heal-on-hit or heal-per-second mechanics. You’ll be light on damage with low Precision and no Ferocity or Expertise, but should have good sustain. Not a good pure power set, this will do better where the attacks are a blend of power and condi.

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Marshal's sits on a very weird place, if you ask me. It's just trying to dip its fingers in too many pies at once, possibly edging towards a more fragile Celestial. However Celestial, I would argue, does better in terms of damage as it has an added Ferocity component, and more Condition Damage.

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I've got a ascended armor set for fractals, and I use it for Firebrand Support, Considering that I can gain max Burn duration with runes/sigils food and traits. Healing Power is good as well with Honor also provides beefy amounts of outgoing healing increase. So maybe not raid ready but it seems to work.

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@Ojimaru.8970 said:Marshal's sits on a very weird place, if you ask me. It's just trying to dip its fingers in too many pies at once, possibly edging towards a more fragile Celestial. However Celestial, I would argue, does better in terms of damage as it has an added Ferocity component, and more Condition Damage.

This.

On top of that, most other 4 stat sets which are not pure damage sets are more focused stats wise and lean either towards only power or only condition damage. Healing power already takes focus away from the sets main objective (power damage), spalshing in a minor condition damage does it no favor.

Marshal might have been interesting if it had toughness instead of condition damage (for wvw power/healing hybrids). The problem with condition damage as a minor stat is on top of that it's low damage, you are lacking expertise for duration.

@Foxraging.1269 said:I too, run this for my firebrand and it works great using mace/sh and axe/torch. I kill little mobs easy and vets and champs cant beat the sustain.

Sorry to say, but any 4 stat set with condition damage will perform well on Firebrand. Try running Trailblazer instead of Marshal to see how big a difference it will make. You'll be tankier and have more damage.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:I too, run this for my firebrand and it works great using mace/sh and axe/torch. I kill little mobs easy and vets and champs cant beat the sustain.

Sorry to say, but any 4 stat set with condition damage will perform well on Firebrand. Try running Trailblazer instead of Marshal to see how big a difference it will make. You'll be tankier and have more damage.

Trailblazer will not out-damage Marshal though, that's downright impossible. A little Expertize (That won't even affect burning as they probably cap it with runes, food and sigils) won't help much considering the low amount of Bleeding they do, and you lose all that Power and Precision. Only Sinister, Viper and Grieving would be a Damage increase to Marshall (Maybe Rampager too, though you'd overcap Crit Chance easily.)

You would be much tankier, ofc.

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@TheSwede.9512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:I too, run this for my firebrand and it works great using mace/sh and axe/torch. I kill little mobs easy and vets and champs cant beat the sustain.

Sorry to say, but any 4 stat set with condition damage will perform well on Firebrand. Try running Trailblazer instead of Marshal to see how big a difference it will make. You'll be tankier and have more damage.

Trailblazer will not out-damage Marshal though, that's downright impossible. A little Expertize (That won't even affect burning as they probably cap it with runes, food and sigils) won't help much considering the low amount of Bleeding they do, and you lose all that Power and Precision. Only Sinister, Viper and Grieving would be a Damage increase to Marshall (Maybe Rampager too, though you'd overcap Crit Chance easily.)

You would be much tankier, ofc.

Trailblazer will out-damage Marshal by a HUGE margin lol. It have cond dmg and expertise, it give the same cond damage as viper without the power part. Axe AA does a lot of burning and F1 skills. So yeah marshal probably would less than half of the Trailblazer dmg.

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@OnizukaBR.8537 said:

@TheSwede.9512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:I too, run this for my firebrand and it works great using mace/sh and axe/torch. I kill little mobs easy and vets and champs cant beat the sustain.

Sorry to say, but any 4 stat set with condition damage will perform well on Firebrand. Try running Trailblazer instead of Marshal to see how big a difference it will make. You'll be tankier and have more damage.

Trailblazer will not out-damage Marshal though, that's downright impossible. A little Expertize (That won't even affect burning as they probably cap it with runes, food and sigils) won't help much considering the low amount of Bleeding they do, and you lose all that Power and Precision. Only Sinister, Viper and Grieving would be a Damage increase to Marshall (Maybe Rampager too, though you'd overcap Crit Chance easily.)

You would be much tankier, ofc.

Trailblazer will out-damage Marshal by a HUGE margin lol. It have cond dmg and expertise, it give the same cond damage as viper without the power part. Axe AA does a lot of burning and F1 skills. So yeah marshal probably would less than half of the Trailblazer dmg.

Let's do the math then, shall we?

A full set of Ascended Marshal Gear w/ Balthazar runes + Smoldering/Bursting Sigils, Fire Chili and Toxic focusing Crystal will result in 2.303 Power, 1703 Precision (37.48% Critical Chance, add +25% from Radiance Line), 0 Ferocity (150% crit damage), 1173 Healing Power and 1220 Condition Damage, with 0 Expertize though 100% duration on Burning. (Using Zeal/Radiance/Firebrand w/ Symbolic power and Kindled Zeal)

EDIT: Link - gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAnf3ensADFBjdBDOCDkCjl4BzaD8CeUVBgtU9a/lWT3pA-jxhAQBdV9npqfAanEgzq8DG7PAgnAAbVCSKAe2VB-e

A full set of Ascended Trailblazer Gear w/ Renegade runes + Smoldering/Malice Sigils, Garlic and Kale Sauteé and Magnanimous Focusing Crystal will result in 1.282 Power, 2.173 Toughness, 1.633 Vitality, 100 Ferocity (156.67% Critical Damage), 1.768 Condition Damage, 733 Expertise (48.87% Condi Duration + 10% from Malice) and 1000 Precision (5% + 25% from Traits), resulting in a 98.7% Duration on Burning. (Using Zeal/Radiance/Firebrand w/ Symbolic power and Kindled Zeal).

EDIT: Link - gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAnf3ensADFBjdBDOCDkCjl4BrKAslqXWbgXwja/lWT3pA-jxhAQBOU9nYqE0jK/AwTAwf6H05+DR7kAQKAI2pB-e

If we're only judging by damage, here's what you've got against eachother:

Power: 2.303 (Marshal) vs 1282 (Trailblazer)Crit Chance: 62.48% against Burning (Marshal) vs 30% against Burning (Trailblazer)Crit Damage: 150% (Marshal) vs 156.67% (Trailblazer)Condition Damage: 1220 + 6% (Marshal) vs 1768 + 7% (Trailblazer)Condition Duration (Burning): 100 % (Marshal) vs 98.87% (Trailblazer)Condition Duration (Bleeding): 0% (Marshal) vs 58.87% (Trailblazer)

Marshal trumps in Power, Precision and Burning (Baaaarely). Trailblazer trumps in Condition Damage, Bleeding and Crit Damage (Baaaarely). Trailblazer gives up about 1k Power and 30% Crit Chance to gain 500 Condition Damage and almost 60% duration on Bleeds. Math doesn't check out for that being better damage. They have sustain instead, which is insanely higher than Marshal (even with the Healing Marshal does, especially considering the Firebrand's poor scaling with Healing power).

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@TheSwede.9512 said:

@OnizukaBR.8537 said:

@TheSwede.9512 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Foxraging.1269 said:I too, run this for my firebrand and it works great using mace/sh and axe/torch. I kill little mobs easy and vets and champs cant beat the sustain.

Sorry to say, but any 4 stat set with condition damage will perform well on Firebrand. Try running Trailblazer instead of Marshal to see how big a difference it will make. You'll be tankier and have more damage.

Trailblazer will not out-damage Marshal though, that's downright impossible. A little Expertize (That won't even affect burning as they probably cap it with runes, food and sigils) won't help much considering the low amount of Bleeding they do, and you lose all that Power and Precision. Only Sinister, Viper and Grieving would be a Damage increase to Marshall (Maybe Rampager too, though you'd overcap Crit Chance easily.)

You would be much tankier, ofc.

Trailblazer will out-damage Marshal by a HUGE margin lol. It have cond dmg and expertise, it give the same cond damage as viper without the power part. Axe AA does a lot of burning and F1 skills. So yeah marshal probably would less than half of the Trailblazer dmg.

Let's do the math then, shall we?

A full set of Ascended Marshal Gear w/ Balthazar runes + Smoldering/Bursting Sigils, Fire Chili and Toxic focusing Crystal will result in 2.303 Power, 1703 Precision (37.48% Critical Chance, add +25% from Radiance Line), 0 Ferocity (150% crit damage), 1173 Healing Power and 1220 Condition Damage, with 0 Expertize though 100% duration on Burning. (Using Zeal/Radiance/Firebrand w/ Symbolic power and Kindled Zeal)

EDIT: Link -

A full set of Ascended Trailblazer Gear w/ Renegade runes + Smoldering/Malice Sigils, Garlic and Kale Sauteé and Magnanimous Focusing Crystal will result in 1.282 Power, 2.173 Toughness, 1.633 Vitality, 100 Ferocity (156.67% Critical Damage), 1.768 Condition Damage, 733 Expertise (48.87% Condi Duration + 10% from Malice) and 1000 Precision (5% + 25% from Traits), resulting in a 98.7% Duration on Burning. (Using Zeal/Radiance/Firebrand w/ Symbolic power and Kindled Zeal).

EDIT: Link -

If we're only judging by damage, here's what you've got against eachother:

Power: 2.303 (
Marshal
) vs 1282 (Trailblazer)Crit Chance: 62.48% against Burning (
Marshal
) vs 30% against Burning (Trailblazer)Crit Damage: 150% (Marshal) vs 156.67% (
Trailblazer
)Condition Damage: 1220 + 6% (Marshal) vs 1768 + 7% (
Trailblazer
)Condition Duration (Burning): 100 % (
Marshal
) vs 98.87% (Trailblazer)Condition Duration (Bleeding): 0% (Marshal) vs 58.87% (
Trailblazer
)

Marshal trumps in Power, Precision and Burning (Baaaarely). Trailblazer trumps in Condition Damage, Bleeding and Crit Damage (Baaaarely). Trailblazer gives up about 1k Power and 30% Crit Chance to gain 500 Condition Damage and almost 60% duration on Bleeds. Math doesn't check out for that being better damage. They have sustain instead, which is insanely higher than Marshal (even with the Healing Marshal does, especially considering the Firebrand's poor scaling with Healing power).

You are assuming that damage output of firebrand is an even 50-50 split between direct damage and condition damage.

It is not.

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I'd be very happy to be enlightened, because from a sheer numerical standpoint, Trailblazer's effective Power doesn't come close to Marshal's. The biggest reason why Trailblazer isn't a huge DPS increase on Firebrand, an undeniably Condi-reliant profession, is because you can easily cap 100% Burning Duration without Expertise. You don't really lose out on not having any Expertise (Exception being Bleeds). Guardian also has a Trait (Kindled Zeal) which grants 10% of your Power as Condi Damage, but lacks a similar trait for turning Toughness into Condi Damage, which cuts some of the losses from running Marshal over Trailblazer (about 100 Condi Damage).

Anyway, more math:With Trailblazer, each stack of Burning will deal almost exactly 434 DPS. With Marshal, Burning will deal 339 DPS per stack (This is calculating in their respective bonuses from Renegade Runes and Bursting Sigil). The difference there is 95 DPS per stack. At around 20 stacks of Burning, that's a 1900 DPS difference on Burning. At 40 stacks, it's 3800 DPS (Marshal deals 13560 DPS at 40 Burns, Trailblazer deals 17360 DPS). For Bleeding, it's 137.8 (Trailblazer) vs 100.9 (Marshal), where Trailblazer will stack 60% more Bleeding due to Expertize. So saying that it's 16 stacks for TB and 10 stacks from Marshal, TB has 2205 DPS while Marshal has 1009 DPS on Bleeding. Placing these against eachother, Marshal deals 14569/19565 = 0.74... = 74% of Trailblazer's Condi DPS at 40 Burns and 10/16 Bleeds respectively.

So aye, in terms of Condition Damage, of course Trailblazer pulls ahead by a good 26% (At 40 Burns/16 Bleeds vs 40 Burns/10 Bleeds). But among the Firebrand's main repertoire of damage, only Tome of Justice and Mantra of Flame have relatively poor or non-existent Power Damage (Exception being Scorched Aftermath, which deals some respectable Power Damage with Good scaling on top of Bleeding and Burning, and technically Mantra of Flame isn't a DPS loss becuase it's instant cast, even for Direct Damage builds). Given that Trailblazer only has 55% of Marshal's power, which scales pretty linearly across most of the weapons, that's a big hit to their DPS. Even Axe, their designated Condi Weapon, has pretty good Power Scaling (Though not as good as Sword).

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You have to cover a dps lead of trailblazer of 3k-6k worth of condi damage with a build which runs very low amounts of power damage (according to your numbers). How many power damage skills are you actually using on Firebrand? None of your utilities, basically your weaponskills and F1 tome.

Even with 1,100 power advantage, that's a lot of dps you have to cover with a very low amount of skills.

That said, exchange renegade runes for 4x Nightmare and 2x Trapper and use Busrting instead of Malice and run 4 Sinister trinkets and you are making use of Trailblazers superior expertise without wasting stats on Renegade ferocity. The difference now becomes even lower power wise. This is slight cheating though since we are are moving away from a "pure" set. Nonetheless, I do think those 3-6k base difference which the power build needs to cover are already quite a big step.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQRAnf3ensADFBjdBDOCDkCjl4BzaD8CeUVBgtU9a/lWT3pA-jRiAQBeUZAAeCAxUJoDV/BanEgusPg/0PcNleqbhBSBAxON-e

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How many power-based skills vs how many Condi-based skills one use is very heavily reliant on 2 factors: Alacrity uptime and number of Trash mobs. With Tome of Justice refreshing on each Kill, you can basically jump in and out of using it at which point Trailblazer's superior Condi DPS will pull ahead (I'm guesstimating here). But the more time spent on your weapons, the greater impact you'll see with Marshal Gear since the build I tossed together wasn't using Virtues to reduce the CD on Tome of Justice. And assuming this is an Open World PvE build, you won't have much access to Alacrity, Although no shortage of trash mobs either.

Most of the Power DPS generally comes from Symbols and Auto-attacking on Guardians. Gaining Quickness on dropping a Tome greatly helps Power DPS more so than Condi DPS (But less so on Axe than Sword or Scepter). So let's calculate the Power DPS on Axe Auto Chain:

Whole combo takes 1.5s to complete sans aftercast. I'm getting tired of all this math so I'm just gonna say 2s with aftercasts. Axes do 900-1100 Damage with Ascended, averaged to 1000. We'll go with an enemy with 1000 Armor to measure against. Damage is calculated as (Weapon Strength) Power Scaling / Target Armor

Axe skills, according to Wiki, has a scaling of 0.72, 0.72 and 2.4 on each subsequent attack.

Marshal deals:

1000 2303 0.72 / 1000 = 1658.161000 2303 0.72 / 1000 = 1658.161000 2303 2.4 / 1000 = 5527.2

Total: 8843.52 / 2 = 4421.76 DPS

Trailblazer deals:

1000 1282 0.72 / 1000 = 923.041000 1282 0.72 / 1000 = 923.041000 1282 2.4 / 1000 = 3076.8

Total: 4922.88 / 2 = 2461.44 DPS

This is only the power damage portion, and doesn't calculate bonuses from Fiery Wrath and Symbolic avenger (+17% Power Damage to Burning enemies in your symbols), neither does it take Critical Hits into account (62% chance vs 30% chance to deal 50/56% extra damage). Neither does it account for 4 stacks of Bleeding for 1/1.5s or the 2 stacks of Burning for 2s.

The only Conclusion I can get from this is that the more Burning you can reliably maintain and the less time spent with your Weapon Skills, the more damage you will do with Trailblazer as opposed to Marshal. I tell anyone if 40 stacks of Burning is something they can maintain permanently on enemies with either build.

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@TheSwede.9512 said:

Trailblazer will not out-damage Marshal though, that's downright impossible.

Full Trailblazer + Renegade runes + Malice sigil + Pizza is a 12.3% DPS loss compared to full meta Grieving /Balthazar / Bursting / Chili build. (33,121 vs 37,787 DPS, simulated)

The best Marshall's build is also Balthazar / Bursting / Chili, which is a 16.1% DPS compared to the meta (31,707 DPS simulated).

Full Trailblazer's is a non-trivial DPS improvement over full Marshall's on a Firebrand.

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