When are we nerfing herald damage?

Today Tubby used his power herald and dueled 10+ experienced WvW duelers/roamers over 2 hours in armistice bastion.His opponents included condi mirage, holosmiths, boonbeasts, necros, warriors, daredevils, weavers etc.
His win rate was 70+ wins and 6 loss.

I suppose heralds are equally oppressive in pvp.

Either Tubby or Herald needs a nerf.

Now you go in on the exact same build Tubby used and fight the same enemies.

Then we'll know.

It's not really that great of a duelist in PvP. It's very strong, meta even, but not because dueling potential.

I use same class and same bild now. But have strong feeling that have 70 lose and 6 wins on pvp... So can I get some damage boost?

Herald is heavily nerfed in pvp relative to it's wvw/pve counter parts.

It happened in WvW, so why tf do you post in PvP?

Damage sigils, the condi cleansing sigil, the endurance sigil and damage multipliers of some weapon skills are different (much stronger) in wvw. That's the problem.

And some classes or builds can benefit a lot from that (more like others due to mechanical reasons).

E.g.: air/hydromancy on weaponswap/legendswap alone deals about 5k damage. Such things don't exist in pvp. And if you eat a surge of the mists it's gg for most classes because that skill deals 100% more (twice as much!) damage in wvw and has the capability to instakill if followed by a weaponswap/legendswap burst.

PvP is indeed very different to wvw.

In pvp the build is so good not because of the raw damage but because it has superior synergy potential with other builds/classes.

The power level of Rev in WvW is vastly different than in PvP. So this thread makes absolutely zero sense to start with.

The dmg of Rev in PvP is fine, what arguable should be nerfed however is the near endless chain of dodges and blocks that, together with some mobility, basically seamlessly bridges the timeframe between two glint heals except when under heavy condi pressure. That is too much for a class with very high mobility and strong dps imo. Another issue is that it can be stacked very well and has strong synergy with FB, the main support, so these 2 classes dominate teamfight comps. It's just that teamfight comps themselves have been become somewhat rare recently, and people prefer roaming comps with tanky sidenoders. But even there Rev is still a very good pick.

I accept nerfs on Herald again after someone show me a video were a Rev herald1vs1 wins 3 times against Tramadex ... with no runaways

Damage is fine. As others have mentioned it's more so their flow with blocks/heals/evades/blinds/knockbacks. It's kind of in the same boat as weaver except worse because they have better mobility though there "unkillable" rotation is a little harder to master. A good rev can be hard to near impossible to pressure on a power build. You can't kite them, you can't stun lock them, you can't block them. Land a good stun? They will break it in shiro or blind you in glint. Try to kite? They chase you with sword+shiro blinks. Try to block? They pop unblockable and CC you with staff or something to that effect. Your only real answer is condi spam and even that can be mitigated and outplayed by a good rev. Then you have condi rev running mace/axe who in my opinion is an equal pain in the butt but less played.

They seem to be on the knifes edge of completely usesless or utterly broken and I'm not sure to the changes it needs. I'm not really sure what to expect in the big boi update but hopefully they figure out something to bring it in line with everything else.

@FtoPScrub.5476 said:It's not really that great of a duelist in PvP. It's very strong, meta even, but not because dueling potential.

it kind of is so long as it gets the first strike. Once its got the advantage its very hard to make a comeback against it especially if they have not used the herald heal yet. Not to mention them popping the heal = free pressure with no risk. ITs a pretty solid duelist i have to say. Its not as good as mesmer but i would say its up there with warrior and ranger.

Side note i think the weapon damage on the skills are fine the boons just need a bit of culling. For the most part boons are what drive damage to unacceptable levels in the current meta. On most builds if you strip the might away their damage usually goes right along with it. Also zerker ammy prob needs to be rebalanced stat wise. Also the range of the active instant aoe blind tends to bother me a bit. IT blinds from pretty far. I feel like its similar to how the holo hammer was you get hit by it when you are not even the main intended target cause the radius is just massive. That could stand to shrink just a bit.

ds + swap legends alone hits for like 8k, then add shiro f2 for another 3k - to be done with 2x 1/4 sec skills with quicknessand you haven't even spend energy yet

i'd rather had them remove the 2nd part of ds and leave the slow chill part on it just being a gap closer

Not trying to step on anyone's toes but I can't help but question "equal skill level" and proper build craft when condi mirages and weavers lose 1v1 to rev... Even spellbreaker, boonbeast, daredevil and holosmith can come out on top if you know what you're doing. As others have mentioned rev is not known for being a dank duelist, never has been (except for maybe start of HoT where rev was busted af).

IMO, damage is fine as long as glint's heal gets a proper nerf. I'm tired of those skill which can full heal without even investing in healing stats (infuse light, defense stance). At least make it works like either guard's shelter or lithany of wrath where the converted % depends on the healing stats.

@Eugchriss.2046 said:IMO, damage is fine as long as glint's heal gets a proper nerf. I'm tired of those skill which can full heal without even investing in healing stats (infuse light, defense stance). At least make it works like either guard's shelter or lithany of wrath where the converted % depends on the healing

Infuse light as a initial delay, and some skills will glitch by ignore the convert to healing effect.

Infuse like is a copy pasta from warrior skill :p, don’t expect much from Anet creative beside on nonsense stuff... lol

1st rule when playing this game... Anet died in 2012. ):0

/2 charrs

Tubby is one of the few Revenants that has made me feel like a legit bad player. Mark is another that I remember made mincemeat of me the one time I encountered him in WvW. Granted, I have lost to plenty of other Revs before, but it is definitely important to consider that he is a genuinely good player and he could be outmatching the other players.With that said, as a Rev main: yes, Rev damage in WvW is pretty nutty. Aside from skills like Sword 2/Staff 5 being unsplit for WvW, I'd say this is due to a few reasons.-Swap damage is just nutty when you combine stuff like Hydro & Air Sigils & Song of the Mists. As a Rev you have access to shadowsteps, which makes actually landing the swap burst extremely easily. Not only this, but you can get almost double value from on-swap sigils as a Rev because of legend swapping triggering them too if you time your swaps correctly. Combine this with a fat quickness-boosted precision strike and you're quick toast. Hydro carries Rev in WvW more than it does most other classes.-One of meta Shiro Rev's biggest weaknesses is condis, and the PvE/WvW cleansing sigil cleansing 3 conditions makes it much less vulnerable. This makes it easier to go all-in for damage.-Incensed Response is busted in WvW. By all means, nerf this dumb trait. It has far too great of synergy with Herald. 25 might is way too easy to upkeep and this trait is a major culprit for this.

With all that said though, most other classes don't have the harsh WvW split either: Holos, Warriors, Soulbeasts, etc. Condi Mirages get hard carried by WvW stats, sigils, and runes. Scourge is basically the only spec that is screwed by WvW balance as far as dueling goes. IMO the only class-specific nerf that needs to happen without any other nerfs to other classes is Incensed Response. There are some other outliers for sure, but let's be honest: this is WvW we are talking about and balance there is FUBAR. Basically every class needs to be brought down several notches there.

1v10 seems fine

@EremiteAngel.9765 said:Today Tubby used his power herald and dueled 10+ experienced WvW duelers/roamers over 2 hours in armistice bastion.His opponents included condi mirage, holosmiths, boonbeasts, necros, warriors, daredevils, weavers etc.

His win rate was 70+ wins and 6 loss.

I suppose heralds are equally oppressive in pvp.

Either Tubby or Herald needs a nerf.

WvW =/= PvP

WvW cleansing sigil that cleanses 3 conditions on weapon swap with a 9s ICD.WvW energy sigil restores 1 full dodge every weapon swap with a 9s ICD.

Between these 2 sigils a rev can be immune to most types of damage in WvW and that's without pointing out the trait difference like Incensed Response giving 5 might in WvW but only 2 in PvP or Surge of the Mists still doing 10k in WvW.

Revenant is very bloated and strong in PvP but it's nowhere near the level of broken it is in WvW. The only class I know that can smoke them easily is condi mirage but even then a revenant can run away and kite pretty easily if they like, it's a draw.

WvW is not properly balanced at all. Tons of skills and traits that allow for way too much damage. There is at least one easymode damage trait or skill on every class that got rightfully nerfed in sPvP but still runs rampant in WvW.

With Revenant specifically, the big problem is Rev in WvW still has access to the un-nerfed versions of Incensed Response and Notoriety. This means you get permanent +1000 bonus power from just facet of darkness alone.

But really this is an issue with every class. . My only guess is Anet doesn't want bunker meta to ever exist in WvW in any fashion so they allow for broken damage combos to exist in order to guarantee death.

@Dantheman.3589 said:1v10 seems fine

1 skilled pvp rev against 10 pve narutos kiddos .... its called l2p issue

where he at? i'll duel him

@Dawdler.8521 said:Now you go in on the exact same build Tubby used and fight the same enemies.

Then we'll know.

Weird argument as performance is a combination of player skill and build power level, not one or the other.

@Arkantos.7460 said:I accept nerfs on Herald again after someone show me a video were a Rev herald1vs1 wins 3 times against Tramadex ... with no runawaysSo, in order to determine whether herald is too strong or not, we need a video of a herald dueling another herald? That will tell us exactly one thing: Who of them is better in the herald mirror match.

And as others have said: Why is this in the pvp sub forum? There is a sub forum for wvw.

These forums smh.

the problem with herald is that there are 5 things to dodge that will take 50% of your hp, and herald is a class with great mobility.

@"Zexanima.7851" said:Damage is fine. As others have mentioned it's more so their flow with blocks/heals/evades/blinds/knockbacks. It's kind of in the same boat as weaver except worse because they have better mobility though there "unkillable" rotation is a little harder to master. A good rev can be hard to near impossible to pressure on a power build. You can't kite them, you can't stun lock them, you can't block them. Land a good stun? They will break it in shiro or blind you in glint. Try to kite? They chase you with sword+shiro blinks. Try to block? They pop unblockable and CC you with staff or something to that effect. Your only real answer is condi spam and even that can be mitigated and outplayed by a good rev. Then you have condi rev running mace/axe who in my opinion is an equal pain in the butt but less played.

They seem to be on the knifes edge of completely usesless or utterly broken and I'm not sure to the changes it needs. I'm not really sure what to expect in the big boi update but hopefully they figure out something to bring it in line with everything else.

I pretty much agree with this entire post.

I don't have too much of a problem with heralds individually. But you can't escape them, you can't really block them, they're damn difficult to catch if you're not a thief or other rev, and they can chain enough skills to be nearly immortal without unblockables or condi.

That's sort of a problem -- classes that can do a lot of damage should have trouble escaping or mitigating all damage.

Herald is overrated in damage. Though it flows fine. Its not that good as a duelist in PvP. But kiting is hard when you try to avoid them. They'll use sword and shiro blinks. Its difficult to stun them because they will just use shiro and glint. Herald flows fine. But it needs some nerfs.