I dont believe spellbreaker needs to be gutted.

Specifically i dont believe if its gonna be nerfed (which im positive it will) that it should be on its kit and abilities.

Imo it should rather be hit on trait that make particular playstyles too strong. But again not gutted either.

Take this with a grain of salt, im not a warr main and i wont pretend ik exactly how the whole fulcounter tank like builds work but i dont believe every trait and build setup the class has should be gutted just because a particular one overperforms. Much like with mirage (my main) i wouldnt like to see my power build gutted because they didnt aproach the condi build with more care (which i find abit sily atm).

With that being said a small cd increase on counter ( a sec or 2 wouldnt hurt anyone :3 )

I feel like the main thing that needs nerfed is the amount of Resistance Spellbreaker can apply, one of which is a pulsing application.

Right now it more or less makes every condition class in the game useless against it, bar one. Scourge.

Don't get me wrong though, Scourge, Reaper and Firebrand need to be toned down but other classes don't output nearly enough conditions nor do they strip enough boons to warrant that kind of Resistance uptime.

@psizone.8437 said:I feel like the main thing that needs nerfed is the amount of Resistance Spellbreaker can apply, one of which is a pulsing application.

Right now it more or less makes every condition class in the game useless against it, bar one. Scourge.

Don't get me wrong though, Scourge, Reaper and Firebrand need to be toned down but other classes don't output nearly enough conditions nor do they strip enough boons to warrant that kind of Resistance uptime.

U can tho play against spellbreak by baiting the counter then going in for the kill. As for reaper i find it funny that u think it needs nerf as its useless since pof launched.

@zealex.9410 said:

U can tho play against spellbreak by baiting the counter then going in for the kill. As for reaper i find it funny that u think it needs nerf as its useless since pof launched.

Not quite so easy in WvW, especially in group fights with pugs shooting randomly. Counter will be procced most of the time.

Besides Scourge and maybe Mesmer there aren't any classes that can strip boons effectively so you still need to fight a strong melee fighter with 16-20 seconds of Resistance that doesn't rely on Counter if you're playing other condition classes.

Reaper is far from useless, it's not as strong as Scourge but it's still one of the top condition applicators in WvW/sPvP.

@psizone.8437 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

U can tho play against spellbreak by baiting the counter then going in for the kill. As for reaper i find it funny that u think it needs nerf as its useless since pof launched.

idd then its hard to deal with it thats why i suggested dealing with traits that give counter alot of power rather than counter itself. If i understand correctly traits are what making counter insane in the first place.

@zealex.9410 said:

idd then its hard to deal with it thats why i suggested dealing with traits that give counter alot of power rather than counter itself. If i understand correctly traits are what making counter insane in the first place.

That's why I suggested the Resistance nerf. Even with just Berserkers Stance, Warrior didn't overly struggle with condition classes, with Featherfoot Grace and Revenge Counter it's rather overkill, especially when we have access to condition removal skills too. Spellbreakers aren't impossible to deal with on a power build.

I think they should remove the Resistance on Revenge Counter and lower the amount we get from Featherfoot Grace or the other way around.

Keep in mind, Scourge will be/should be nerfed so the amount of them and the conditions/boonstrip they bring will/should be lower too.

@psizone.8437 said:

@zealex.9410 said:

idd then its hard to deal with it thats why i suggested dealing with traits that give counter alot of power rather than counter itself. If i understand correctly traits are what making counter insane in the first place.

Scourge is not the only condi class that warrior need to fight. There are namely OP condi class out there.

But if you are talking about class wide condi nerf, then we can talk about warrior resistance nerf. Don't forget bringing resistance to fight a condi scourge as if they can't corrupt your resistance...

@Crossaber.8934 said:

Scourge is not the only condi class that warrior need to fight. There are namely OP condi class out there.

But if you are talking about class wide condi nerf, then we can talk about warrior resistance nerf. Don't forget bringing resistance to fight a condi scourge as if they can't corrupt your resistance...

Other classes don't have nearly as many boon stripping skills so we don't need nearly as many Resistance application skills. Unless other classes gain access to more boonstrips Spellbreaker can just turn off their condition damage for a large amount of time.

Other classes also need to fight condition builds but they don't have nearly as much access to Resistance as Spellbreaker does.

Scourge being broken doesn't justify Spellbreaker being broken and it being fun doesn't mean it shouldn't be nerfed.

Anet designed it as a PvP-only spec.

It does very well in PvP.

People want it nerfed to crap.

I... I just don't understand....

I believe on of the main nerfs in spellbreaker is the full counter. the cd is way to low. And also i think its something that should be interrupted.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

Scourge is not the only condi class that warrior need to fight. There are namely OP condi class out there.

But if you are talking about class wide condi nerf, then we can talk about warrior resistance nerf. Don't forget bringing resistance to fight a condi scourge as if they can't corrupt your resistance...

Each class has advantage and disadvantage over another classes, pre PoF, my berserker needed to run everytime i met a condi chrono mesmer when roaming, but i eat reaper for breakfast. Now post PoF, my spellbreaker can fight a condi mesmer head on but i have to run away from condi scourge. Not to mention my berserker also can handle daredevil quite well pre PoF, but deadeye 2 shot my spellbreaker from stealth 3 times in a roll.

I am a very average player so to speak.

I am actually finding Scourges pretty easy to fight. I can kill them more often than not. It's possible I'm just running into people who don't really know how to play the necro class though, just jumping on the scourge bandwaggon. The classes I've had the most trouble with are really good thieves and really good Mirages. Seriously mirage is underrated. I ran into a few that I literally could not even hit. I'm also pretty average as well, so maybe that's just me being bad lol.

@SWI.4127 said:I am actually finding Scourges pretty easy to fight. I can kill them more often than not. It's possible I'm just running into people who don't really know how to play the necro class though, just jumping on the scourge bandwaggon. The classes I've had the most trouble with are really good thieves and really good Mirages. Seriously mirage is underrated. I ran into a few that I literally could not even hit. I'm also pretty average as well, so maybe that's just me being bad lol.

Yes, you are correct, there are classes that extremely OP as well, there is already a few post about power stealthy deadeye that 1 or 2 shot any class any player covered in stealth. There is 0 counter play...

@Crossaber.8934 said:

Each class has advantage and disadvantage over another classes, pre PoF, my berserker needed to run everytime i met a condi chrono mesmer when roaming, but i eat reaper for breakfast. Now post PoF, my spellbreaker can fight a condi mesmer head on but i have to run away from condi scourge. Not to mention my berserker also can handle daredevil quite well pre PoF, but deadeye 2 shot my spellbreaker from stealth 3 times in a roll.

I am a very average player so to speak.

This goes beyond having an advantage over one or two classes.

Resistance cancels out condition damage, Spellbreaker has a LOT of Resistance application and most classes do not have any way to remove Resistance.

Spellbreaker completely counters every condition class except Scourge and maybe Mesmer (I haven't run into many, but they have access to decent boonstrip). There's no fighting a Spellbreaker on a condition build that has no way to remove Resistance. No counter play is no fun.

You mentioned power builds killing you, I'm not saying they can't. I'm specifically saying that it's a problem for most condition builds.

@Oglaf.1074 said:Anet designed it as a PvP-only spec.

It does very well in PvP.

People want it nerfed to crap.

I... I just don't understand....

PvP is only fun when there's counter play. If something can completely turn off your damage, there's no fun fighting it.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Anet designed it as a PvP-only spec.

It does very well in PvP.

People want it nerfed to crap.

I... I just don't understand....

Good thing Spellbreaker cannot do that, and there is counterplay to it, then.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Good thing Spellbreaker cannot do that, and there is counterplay to it, then.

What?

Just read my comments above. I'm not going to argue with you if you don't think this is a problem.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Crossaber.8934 said:

Each class has advantage and disadvantage over another classes, pre PoF, my berserker needed to run everytime i met a condi chrono mesmer when roaming, but i eat reaper for breakfast. Now post PoF, my spellbreaker can fight a condi mesmer head on but i have to run away from condi scourge. Not to mention my berserker also can handle daredevil quite well pre PoF, but deadeye 2 shot my spellbreaker from stealth 3 times in a roll.

I am a very average player so to speak.

I think i am quite a bad player, as i got killed by condi lost counting since PoF than by power build seriously. Spellbreaker is designed to be a COUNTER to spell, so condi damage, aoe, clones, minion are within the design concept as a whole. High power spike, ranged power damage, high rof melee damage can kill a spellbreaker easily. Like i said, every class has advantage and disadvantage over another class in GW2, you can't expect every condi build should be able to dominant every class every elite spec.

As a spellbreaker, i know there are direct counter to me, therefore i should be a direct counter to somebody as well.

It's very difficult to kill spellbreaker with a power build too. All of the evade frames and mobility combined with constant healing and/or double endure pain is too much.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

Good thing Spellbreaker cannot do that, and there is counterplay to it, then.

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Not a decision I agree with, but it is apparently how Anet wants things now and it is too late to change it - if you axe Spellbreaker's PvP it'd be left with nothing.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Not a decision I agree with, but it is apparently how Anet wants things now and it is too late to change it - if you axe Spellbreaker's PvP it'd be left with nothing.

It's a problem in WvW/sPvP for the reasons I laid out. It has nothing to do with PvE.

@Crossaber.8934 said:

I think i am quite a bad player, as i got killed by condi lost counting since PoF than by power build seriously. Spellbreaker is designed to be a COUNTER to spell, so condi damage, aoe, clones, minion are within the design concept as a whole. High power spike, ranged power damage, high rof melee damage can kill a spellbreaker easily. Like i said, every class has advantage and disadvantage over another class in GW2, you can't expect every condi build should be able to dominant every class every elite spec.

As a spellbreaker, i know there are direct counter to me, therefore i should be a direct counter to somebody as well.

How many of those condition enemies that killed you were Scourges though? And were you running all 3 Resistance skills?

Spellbreakers are far from useless against power specs, they're kill-able but they're far from a free kill.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Not a decision I agree with, but it is apparently how Anet wants things now and it is too late to change it - if you axe Spellbreaker's PvP it'd be left with nothing.

Maybe read what I actually wrote before replying next time.

I never said PvE has anything to do with it.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Not a decision I agree with, but it is apparently how Anet wants things now and it is too late to change it - if you axe Spellbreaker's PvP it'd be left with nothing.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

@psizone.8437 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Not a decision I agree with, but it is apparently how Anet wants things now and it is too late to change it - if you axe Spellbreaker's PvP it'd be left with nothing.

@Oglaf.1074 said:

It is not a problem because it is a PvP-only spec. They literally gutted any and all PvE potential for it.

Which is not part of my argument, merely clarifying Spellbreaker being purely designed with PvP in mind.

As I said, specs for specific gamemodes is a very, very bad idea but one that Anet went through with anyway. Now you're in a situation where they have to let these PvP specs be better at PvP than most because otherwise what is the point of them? That is my argument.