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Best 3 classes for Fractals and Raids?

In your opinion what are the 3 best classes for Fractals and/or Raids?

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  • Guardian, pretty much any flavor.
    Mesmer, not much else has to be said about that.
    Someone who can pick up people. Scourge used to hard carry because of this. I think tempest can do this, but I don't play one.

  • Agrippa Oculus.3726Agrippa Oculus.3726 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2020

    Guardian and Warrior for sure (reasoning: see posts above):

    Then, because you (also) ask Fractals and Raids, I would still go for Mesmer, cause they still absolutely rule raids (Chrono and Mirage) and although not META anymore in fractals, they're on their own still much better than any other boon support (in the form of Chrono of course).

    Very close outsiders: Revenant: because it completes the Firebrigade combo with (mainly) its Alacrity support.
    And don't forget Ranger: with its Spirits: still very potent and unique buff to the whole party.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For raids mesmer, guardian, ranger and warrior.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Guardian, warrior and ranger. All meta for fractals and all meta dor raids. Mesmer is 4th since you use it in raids but not in fractals. Revenant would be 5th I guess.
    Guardian is now the top dog but I expect that some nerfs will come next patch.

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation - each for pugging/soloing/speedclearing dailies/recs/fractal CMs and pugging/fast/safe/speedclearing raids/raid CMs (could also be more).

    e.g. Fractals at a high level is all about burst. The 3 best (and only relevant due to other classes lacking similar burst) classes are:

    • DH
    • power weaver
    • power Slb
    • Alacgade would be the next best because of the handy alacrity and lifesteal, but it doesn't have that burst that makes bosses phase fast which is the ultimate goal. Note the 3 above builds are played with slight differences compared to their raid counterparts (precast + prestack knowledge & use of different traits and skills are required).

    However, the above does not work unless the comp is specifically setup as a burst comp. Hence, when commonly pugging the generic T4 fracs, it suddenly changes into:

    • HB (healbrand)
    • Alacgade
    • a self sustain spec that provides its own boons, in case the above two are not present (prominent examples include reaper and pchrono, although these two have low tier dps and should be outmatched by other classes with a decent HB and alacgade. Other examples such as condi firebrand and banner zerker could fit in this slot)

    So then there are even more situations such as having both or no HB and alacgade present, or having one and not the other, etc. There's too much to consider in just only fractals to be set specifically on 3 best endgame classes.

    However, without going too deep into raid comps and like everyone else is practically stating, there is one profession that clearly stands out compared to the rest - guardian. With all the gear (and especs) available, you rarely can ever go wrong with a guard.

    Currently meme’ing on core mesmer for PvE content.

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    As far as fractals are concerned:

    1. Firebrand/Renegade
    2. Banner Warrior to go with
    3. Any other 2x DPS classes. But if I had to slide one above the others for a 3rd place importance next to Firebrand/Renegade/Banner Warrior, I would say Reaper. Although there are classes that land more burst in a shorter amount of time, the Reaper's DPS is steady & consistent, which serves its purpose against mobs. The damage is large spread AoE always, and the autos hit hard in conjunction with quickness play. Its self sustain through shroud generally makes it a safe player, but this is a particular perk during bad instability rolls or when the party must divide & break formation vs. objectives. The Reaper can land relatively safe revives due to shroud use, but also through the use of Signet of Undeath. Reaper utilities are also nice vs. certain fractals, such as bringing forth minions to block projectiles, or using Flesh Wurm to bypass certain areas and complete a fractal more quickly.

    You forget Soulbeast with Frost Spirit. Last spot can be any DPS, but also there is Guardian quite a dominant factor (Power DH).

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guardian, Guardian and Guardian.

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • Guardian is one of the best classes for fractals and raids. In fractals, you have Power Quickbrand, Condition Quickbrand, Power Dragonhunter (DPS) and you could even play Condition Firebrand if you wanted. In raids, you have similar options. Ranger is another class which is great in both forms of content, in the form of Power Soulbeast for fractals and far more build versatility in raids, including Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condition Soulbeast. Thirdly, I'm gonna say warrior due to banners.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DrNixilis.1784 said:
    In your opinion what are the 3 best classes for Fractals and/or Raids?

    It depend a lot of what you want to do and how much effort you want to put into what you do.

    • offensive support, you'll go with guardian, warrior (banner) and ranger (any)
    • defensive support/heal, you'll go with revenant (ventari), elementalist (tempest) and necromancer (scourge)
    • high potential DPS, you'll have elementalist (weaver), guardian (firebrand) and mesmer (chrono)
    • high survivability DPS, you'll have necromancer (reaper)
  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer, guardian, ranger.

    I think people are ranking warrior too high. I get that banners are great and all but I wouldn't put warrior in the top 3.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    FB/REN/berserker. Berserker DPS is madness
    You may lack some vulnerability and would like DH to precast traps for your "new record" video, and faster vulnerability application. But please, stop kicking a second berserker for obscur a priori.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:
    Mesmer, guardian, ranger.

    I think people are ranking warrior too high. I get that banners are great and all but I wouldn't put warrior in the top 3.

    Mesmer is garbage tier in fractals and warrior is meta on every raidboss and in fractals. It can even out dps other pure dps builds as a banner supp in fractals. Mesmer isnt even meta on every raidboss.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knite.1542 said:
    Mesmer, guardian, ranger.

    I think people are ranking warrior too high. I get that banners are great and all but I wouldn't put warrior in the top 3.

    Warrior is meta in every fractal/raid unlike mesmer or guardian

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2020

    @knite.1542 said:
    Mesmer, guardian, ranger.

    I think people are ranking warrior too high. I get that banners are great and all but I wouldn't put warrior in the top 3.

    As mentioned, mesmer is not seeing use in fractals. Definitely a lot less than warrior. Mesmer is only viable as condi Mirage or chrono slave in raids, and even there, the second spot and sometimes both spots go to other classes (boonthief on some encounters). Highend raids groups run solo chronos on many of the other encounters leaving only Twins and Desmina for double chrono.

    Warrior has a safe spot in raids and fractals and ever since the last balance patch and changes to Peak Performance, the rotations and output was increased even further. As banner warrior you get a super simple rotation, high dps, great cc if needed AND unique banner effects.

    Warrior is in no way overrated. If you did any raid or fractal while banners were deactivated, you would have noticed how important they actually are. The rest is just insane gravy right now. One might even argue warrior output is even to high given the ease of rotation.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    Overall best classes are Guardian, Renegade, and Warrior. Honorable mention to Necromancer for being a great dps or support for carrying pugs.

    Doc Von Doom

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For FotM:
    1) Any Guardian
    2) Any Healer (can be Guardian if it is a DH)
    3) Any DPS other than DH.

    A Quickbrand, a Druid, a Power Berserker (not Banners), a Weaver, and a Reaper can make mincemeat of any fractal. I used to run banners in my group. Having to place them and pick them back up just slowed things down. Had the weaver sweating bullets on DPS every fight though.

    Honestly so long as you follow the below guidelines your FotM group should do fine:
    1) High group quickness uptime from anywhere ( FB or Chrono)
    2) A healer
    3) 3 competent Power DPS roles.
    4) Alacrity is a nice bonus, but is only really needed for speed running.

  • Yasi.9065Yasi.9065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020

    Fractals:

    • Firebrand
    • Alacrity-bot
    • Banner-bot

    Raids:

    • Chrono
    • Druid
    • Banner-bot

    Who cares about DPS. If your support stands, your dps can be the worst greeding monkeys and you still will be successful. If your support is bad, your dps can be the best players and you still have a high chance of wiping.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020

    Fractals

    • Guardian (by a mile)
    • Revenant
    • Warrior

    Raids:

    • Warrior (ever seen a squad without banners outside of some rare Twins groups?)
    • Ranger (Druid is about as must-have as ever plus some uses for Soulbeast)
    • Chrono/Guardian/Revenant (depending on the squad - some people would certainly value Guardians higher than Mesmers, etc.)

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For FotM:
    1) Any Guardian
    2) Any Healer (can be Guardian if it is a DH)
    3) Any DPS other than DH.

    A Quickbrand, a Druid, a Power Berserker (not Banners), a Weaver, and a Reaper can make mincemeat of any fractal. I used to run banners in my group. Having to place them and pick them back up just slowed things down. Had the weaver sweating bullets on DPS every fight though.

    Honestly so long as you follow the below guidelines your FotM group should do fine:
    1) High group quickness uptime from anywhere ( FB or Chrono)
    2) A healer
    3) 3 competent Power DPS roles.
    4) Alacrity is a nice bonus, but is only really needed for speed running.

    Thats so wrong considering fractals. Either you run fb + ren and only one of them can be a healer or chrono + a healer who can stack 25might. But healer isn't meta in fractals anyways. Alacrity isn't a nice bonus, it's a massive bonus for dh, weaver and slb.
    Complaining about placing banners and picking them up is ridiculous. You can place banners before most bosses become targetable aswell.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For FotM:
    1) Any Guardian
    2) Any Healer (can be Guardian if it is a DH)
    3) Any DPS other than DH.

    A Quickbrand, a Druid, a Power Berserker (not Banners), a Weaver, and a Reaper can make mincemeat of any fractal. I used to run banners in my group. Having to place them and pick them back up just slowed things down. Had the weaver sweating bullets on DPS every fight though.

    Honestly so long as you follow the below guidelines your FotM group should do fine:
    1) High group quickness uptime from anywhere ( FB or Chrono)
    2) A healer
    3) 3 competent Power DPS roles.
    4) Alacrity is a nice bonus, but is only really needed for speed running.

    Thats so wrong considering fractals. Either you run fb + ren and only one of them can be a healer or chrono + a healer who can stack 25might. But healer isn't meta in fractals anyways. Alacrity isn't a nice bonus, it's a massive bonus for dh, weaver and slb.
    Complaining about placing banners and picking them up is ridiculous. You can place banners before most bosses become targetable aswell.

    And yet banners never made the fight quicker for my group. Granted the our healer is a druid and the FB was running a Quickbrand build so the majority of the DPS was from the weaver and myself. Banners are the kind of skill that get better as they affect more people, so in our case running a higher DPS build myself was better for the group.

    Alacrity is nice, but isn't needed unless you are speed running.

    I broke this down beyond classes. You want a source of group quickness, 3 DPS, and a healer. If you want todo it without a healer, then take a DPS/support like banners. You seem to be coming from the Meta or GTFO mentality. Non meta comps are honestly 95% as effective so long as the players know what they are doing. And if the players themselves play well together, then they can be as good or better than a Meta PUG.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Alacrity is nice, but isn't needed unless you are speed running.

    So is quickness and yet you mention it as something a group should always want to have.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @DrNixilis.1784 said:
    In your opinion what are the 3 best classes for Fractals and/or Raids?

    It depend a lot of what you want to do and how much effort you want to put into what you do.

    • offensive support, you'll go with guardian, warrior (banner) and ranger (any)
    • defensive support/heal, you'll go with revenant (ventari), elementalist (tempest) and necromancer (scourge)
    • high potential DPS, you'll have elementalist (weaver), guardian (firebrand) and mesmer (chrono)
    • high survivability DPS, you'll have necromancer (reaper)

    For high survivability dps, Kitty would also add IP thieves and power scrapper. Power scrapper is pretty much godmode as long as it can hit stuff.

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Alacrity is nice, but isn't needed unless you are speed running.

    So is quickness and yet you mention it as something a group should always want to have.

    This is true, but quickness get bursts out quicker and moves between any boss stages quicker. Fractal bosses can be burned down quick enough, either the whole HP bar or the separate stages, that the CD reduction from alacrity is less important than the attack speed increase from quickness.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    This is true, but quickness get bursts out quicker and moves between any boss stages quicker. Fractal bosses can be burned down quick enough, either the whole HP bar or the separate stages, that the CD reduction from alacrity is less important than the attack speed increase from quickness.

    While i do not agree with you, i can see where you are coming from. But lets face it, every group that takes a healer will benefit from alacrity anyway. They wont be fast enough.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    And yet banners never made the fight quicker for my group. Granted the our healer is a druid and the FB was running a Quickbrand build so the majority of the DPS was from the weaver and myself. Banners are the kind of skill that get better as they affect more people, so in our case running a higher DPS build myself was better for the group.

    But warrior benefits the most from banners. 200fero, power, precision is worth more than one extra physical skill. Especially on warr who has a hard time crit capping with scholar + impact anyways.
    Even in super organized speedrun kills fights are long enough for alacrity to matter so there is no way it would be weaker in pugs.

  • Xenic.1387Xenic.1387 Member ✭✭

    Every low level fractal (I'm only up to 43) that I've been in is a mess unless there's a scourge. Pretty much why I've started playing it full time in Fractals.

    [EBG] Zeenik
    Nic At Night
    Northern Shiverpeaks WvW

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For FotM:
    1) Any Guardian
    2) Any Healer (can be Guardian if it is a DH)
    3) Any DPS other than DH.

    A Quickbrand, a Druid, a Power Berserker (not Banners), a Weaver, and a Reaper can make mincemeat of any fractal. I used to run banners in my group. Having to place them and pick them back up just slowed things down. Had the weaver sweating bullets on DPS every fight though.

    Honestly so long as you follow the below guidelines your FotM group should do fine:
    1) High group quickness uptime from anywhere ( FB or Chrono)
    2) A healer
    3) 3 competent Power DPS roles.
    4) Alacrity is a nice bonus, but is only really needed for speed running.

    Thats so wrong considering fractals. Either you run fb + ren and only one of them can be a healer or chrono + a healer who can stack 25might. But healer isn't meta in fractals anyways. Alacrity isn't a nice bonus, it's a massive bonus for dh, weaver and slb.
    Complaining about placing banners and picking them up is ridiculous. You can place banners before most bosses become targetable aswell.

    And yet banners never made the fight quicker for my group. Granted the our healer is a druid and the FB was running a Quickbrand build so the majority of the DPS was from the weaver and myself. Banners are the kind of skill that get better as they affect more people, so in our case running a higher DPS build myself was better for the group.

    Alacrity is nice, but isn't needed unless you are speed running.

    I broke this down beyond classes. You want a source of group quickness, 3 DPS, and a healer. If you want todo it without a healer, then take a DPS/support like banners. You seem to be coming from the Meta or GTFO mentality. Non meta comps are honestly 95% as effective so long as the players know what they are doing. And if the players themselves play well together, then they can be as good or better than a Meta PUG.

    While I will agree that there is a ton of non-meta comps which will have little issues with clearing fractal content, the statement that non meta comps can perform on a similar level as meta comps is plain incorrect (unless all you replace is among similar dps in output). The basic support structure of fb+ren+war for all essential boons and banners WILL outperform ANY other composition among similar skilled players.

    Your statement is only true if we look at this from a binary perspective: success or failure. Yes, 95% of non meta comps will be able to clear fractals. No, they will not outperform meta compositions.

    As far as warrior and banners, the only time a banner warrior is less ideal is when the groups ability is very unequal in that the banner warrior player is of high performance with bad dps players. Even in that situation it is arguable if the group damage would not be higher with banners since removing banners by going for a pure dps might improve your personal performance, but at the cost of the entire group (eve if it's only 2 other dps and maybe the renegade support). There is a reason banners are brought even among high performance groups. Their performance increase across 3-4 players is just that high(even when sacrificing 2 slots for supports: qfb/hfb and bs).

    @Xenic.1387 said:
    Every low level fractal (I'm only up to 43) that I've been in is a mess unless there's a scourge. Pretty much why I've started playing it full time in Fractals.

    That's due to scourges very high carry potential, ease of use and self standing power. Paired with no necessity for boons or support structure for reasonable enemy clearing (reasonable as in things don't seem like bullet sponges). With an actual support setup most enemies just instant die on that level to experienced players given they have nearly no hitpoints.

  • Xenic.1387Xenic.1387 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2020

    Last night on a whim I decided to try Warrior (banner slave core build from metabattle) just to see what would happen. I had zero clue what I was doing, smashed buttons and just tried to stay alive, and had top DPS in every fight. I was full zerker gear, axe axe / GS..... I could only imagine how good it could be with someone who wasn't rolling their face on the keyboard

    [EBG] Zeenik
    Nic At Night
    Northern Shiverpeaks WvW

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xenic.1387 said:
    Last night on a whim I decided to try Warrior (banner slave core build from metabattle) just to see what would happen. I had zero clue what I was doing, smashed buttons and just tried to stay alive, and had top DPS in every fight. I was full zerker, axe axe / GS..... I could only imagine how good it could be with someone who wasn't rolling their face on the keyboard

    And this is what I am alluding too. Zerkeris easy to deal damage with, just spam Decap, but bringing a meta build and not knowing what you are doing can be out done with a non meta build that knows what they are doing.

  • Xenic.1387Xenic.1387 Member ✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Xenic.1387 said:
    Last night on a whim I decided to try Warrior (banner slave core build from metabattle) just to see what would happen. I had zero clue what I was doing, smashed buttons and just tried to stay alive, and had top DPS in every fight. I was full zerker, axe axe / GS..... I could only imagine how good it could be with someone who wasn't rolling their face on the keyboard

    And this is what I am alluding too. Zerkeris easy to deal damage with, just spam Decap, but bringing a meta build and not knowing what you are doing can be out done with a non meta build that knows what they are doing.

    Keep in mind, I was CORE Warrior. I had full zerker gear and weapons. This account was a free 80 that I used to farm materials and for storage... no specializations.

    [EBG] Zeenik
    Nic At Night
    Northern Shiverpeaks WvW

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @Xenic.1387 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Xenic.1387 said:
    Last night on a whim I decided to try Warrior (banner slave core build from metabattle) just to see what would happen. I had zero clue what I was doing, smashed buttons and just tried to stay alive, and had top DPS in every fight. I was full zerker, axe axe / GS..... I could only imagine how good it could be with someone who wasn't rolling their face on the keyboard

    And this is what I am alluding too. Zerkeris easy to deal damage with, just spam Decap, but bringing a meta build and not knowing what you are doing can be out done with a non meta build that knows what they are doing.

    Keep in mind, I was CORE Warrior. I had full zerker gear and weapons. This account was a free 80 that I used to farm materials and for storage... no specializations.

    Every low level fractal (I'm only up to 43)

    TBH, topping dps against t1/2ists isn't all that much of an achievement, more often than not they don't even know what build they are running. Similarly, I have a f2p core mesmer topping dps here and there in t3, sometimes even against pots + food while I don't have pots and food (cuz fantastic tp restrictions and saving up for infinite pots). I don't even have an ascended weapon on that character yet, whilst I assume others have (being in t3 and 99% of the time, paid accounts with access to especs). Would this mean that core mesmer is good?

    (Truth be told, core warrior doesn't seem all that strong in this current meta, but the current iteration of power zerker is very powerful compared to most other specs - though being a potential 'best' is up for debate.)

    Currently meme’ing on core mesmer for PvE content.

  • @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Xenic.1387 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Xenic.1387 said:
    Last night on a whim I decided to try Warrior (banner slave core build from metabattle) just to see what would happen. I had zero clue what I was doing, smashed buttons and just tried to stay alive, and had top DPS in every fight. I was full zerker, axe axe / GS..... I could only imagine how good it could be with someone who wasn't rolling their face on the keyboard

    And this is what I am alluding too. Zerkeris easy to deal damage with, just spam Decap, but bringing a meta build and not knowing what you are doing can be out done with a non meta build that knows what they are doing.

    Keep in mind, I was CORE Warrior. I had full zerker gear and weapons. This account was a free 80 that I used to farm materials and for storage... no specializations.

    Every low level fractal (I'm only up to 43)

    TBH, topping dps against t1/2ists isn't all that much of an achievement, more often than not they don't even know what build they are running. Similarly, I have a f2p core mesmer topping dps here and there in t3, sometimes even against pots + food while I don't have pots and food (cuz fantastic tp restrictions and saving up for infinite pots). I don't even have an ascended weapon on that character yet, whilst I assume others have (being in t3 and 99% of the time, paid accounts with access to especs). Would this mean that core mesmer is good?

    (Truth be told, core warrior doesn't seem all that strong in this current meta, but the current iteration of power zerker is very powerful compared to most other specs - though being a potential 'best' is up for debate.)

    It's an achievement when I LITERALLY have ZERO play time on the class and was just mashing whatever button looked cool. I have no clue what the abilities do, what the attacks are, what the util does, etc. It was a free 80 that I bought some gear on, farm mats with, and use as a bank. Hell I didn't even have all of the Hero Points spent on it. I just got the ones needed for the random build I pulled up LOL.

    [EBG] Zeenik
    Nic At Night
    Northern Shiverpeaks WvW

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    Warrior, guard, rev no contest really

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭

    Fractals
    -Anything

    Raids
    -Anything

    If you're starting raid/fractals, chances are that you won't be running specific class on each boss for at least 1 or 3 months. So play what you enjoy. No point playing something you don't like just because it's presumably good this early on in the game.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tim.4596 said:
    Fractals
    -Anything

    Raids
    -Anything

    If you're starting raid/fractals, chances are that you won't be running specific class on each boss for at least 1 or 3 months. So play what you enjoy. No point playing something you don't like just because it's presumably good this early on in the game.

    And then having to reroll because some stuff just doesn't get accepted in decent cm fractal groups or raid teams. Good advice! He asked for best, not what can work with very experienced players to just reach the average meta performance.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @tim.4596 said:
    Fractals
    -Anything

    Raids
    -Anything

    If you're starting raid/fractals, chances are that you won't be running specific class on each boss for at least 1 or 3 months. So play what you enjoy. No point playing something you don't like just because it's presumably good this early on in the game.

    And then having to reroll because some stuff just doesn't get accepted in decent cm fractal groups or raid teams. Good advice! He asked for best, not what can work with very experienced players to just reach the average meta performance.

    I agree this is a very bad advice as he asked the best class and these kind of suggestions can affect his whole endgame experience.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • ParadoX.3124ParadoX.3124 Member ✭✭✭

    Guard, Ren, Warior

  • Warrior, guardian, necro

    "It is impossible to live without failing at something, unless you live so cautiously that you might has well not have lived at all, in which case you have failed by default"- J.K Rowling
    “The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”-Aristotle

  • YtseJam.9784YtseJam.9784 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been running them as Mesmer since before HoT came out, then upgraded to Chrono. Pretty good class to run them as, especially if you are into mechanics and stuff. A lot of people don't do mechanics, or even CC, and Chrono is really good when it comes into that. Rarely died as Chrono.

    Since Siren's Reef came out, I've started switching to Scourge for the last boss, cause a lot of people died and barrier helped a lot. Been running them as Scourge for the past months and it's pretty sweet and rarely go down as well and can help team stay alive and do mechanics and such.

    But IMO I really think it comes down to which class you think you feel most comfortable with, and KNOW how to stay alive and do your CCs and pulls, etc. I suck as a guardian, warrior, rev so I would be horrible if I ever tried to do fractals as those, even tho for other people that's their go to.

  • Guard is the best in fractals. DH brings strong burst. Quickbrand for a dps support hybrid. HB the best healer for pugs. Druid/chrono in 2020 lol.

    Rev is nice for alac. The extra utility their forms have can be extremely OP and are useful in pugs. Most revs have no idea what their other utility skills are, sadly. Most will sit in Kalla anf Shiro thinking the measly DPS gain is it worth it. Heal rev is lol. 9 out of 10 times heal rev pugs have no idea what they are doing.

    Banners are nice but again in t4 daily pugs they dont realize they need to pick them up for the CDR and move them.

    DPS I find any class fine so long as they know what they are doing. I have gone into the ooze boss as a scourge knowing their dps is on the low end for a quick burn but somehow managed to outdps a power weaver.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't have a clue about raids, but I think that Hizen soloed all the fractal bosses with his condi Herald.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020

    Shows how much requirements may differ between differerent types of content. Condi Heralds are nowhere near the Top 3 of classes for raids or Fractals for that matter. It is simply a build that is good at solo'ing PvE encounters.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:
    I don't have a clue about raids, but I think that Hizen soloed all the fractal bosses with his condi Herald.

    Lots have players have solo kills taking less than 1/4th of the time on actually good builds though. Trailblazer was a mistake to begin with, that set should not exist. Soulbeast and weaver can spike 140k burst dps, a build like condi herald will just not work in a group setting unless you expect your party to die 5sec into the fight.

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:
    I don't have a clue about raids, but I think that Hizen soloed all the fractal bosses with his condi Herald.

    Lots have players have solo kills taking less than 1/4th of the time on actually good builds though. Trailblazer was a mistake to begin with, that set should not exist. Soulbeast and weaver can spike 140k burst dps, a build like condi herald will just not work in a group setting unless you expect your party to die 5sec into the fight.

    You can find some faster videos here and there of one class and build beating one boss or two, and that's all. You won't find any video of a single build beating so many fractal bosses, event bosses and open PvE content (in fact He said that was able to soloing with His condi mirage around 50% of the content as with Jis condi Herald). He previously have done videos similar solo fights using Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge, Weaver and Mirage, none of them as extensive in variety and numbers with a fixed single build as with the condi Herald.

    You see trailblazer as a waste of time because is not focused in damage, but in reality is amazing because turns around the concept of keeping the player alive while easily stacking 40+ torments of targets playing alone. Maybe you can build a single optimized class and loadout to be more time efficient against each task, but for me (and I talk as a player which has a full legendary armor set) having to reset stats, to change traits and weapons for different contents makes me yawn and sounds boring. A player can just drive that tank at any PvE content and smash it under its caterpillar wheels, and I couldn't care less about "some cars that can run that track faster". I think that condi Herald is one of the best classes for fractals and raids, and trailblazer Glint/Mallyx is way better at them than the alacrigade or the viper renegade (being Herald one of my two favorite classes in the game and renegade my least favorite by far).

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Buran.3796 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Buran.3796 said:
    I don't have a clue about raids, but I think that Hizen soloed all the fractal bosses with his condi Herald.

    Lots have players have solo kills taking less than 1/4th of the time on actually good builds though. Trailblazer was a mistake to begin with, that set should not exist. Soulbeast and weaver can spike 140k burst dps, a build like condi herald will just not work in a group setting unless you expect your party to die 5sec into the fight.

    You can find some faster videos here and there of one class and build beating one boss or two, and that's all. You won't find any video of a single build beating so many fractal bosses, event bosses and open PvE content (in fact He said that was able to soloing with His condi mirage around 50% of the content as with Jis condi Herald). He previously have done videos similar solo fights using Firebrand, Spellbreaker, Scourge, Weaver and Mirage, none of them as extensive in variety and numbers with a fixed single build as with the condi Herald.

    You see trailblazer as a waste of time because is not focused in damage, but in reality is amazing because turns around the concept of keeping the player alive while easily stacking 40+ torments of targets playing alone. Maybe you can build a single optimized class and loadout to be more time efficient against each task, but for me (and I talk as a player which has a full legendary armor set) having to reset stats, to change traits and weapons for different contents makes me yawn and sounds boring. A player can just drive that tank at any PvE content and smash it under its caterpillar wheels, and I couldn't care less about "some cars that can run that track faster". I think that condi Herald is one of the best classes for fractals and raids, and trailblazer Glint/Mallyx is way better at them than the alacrigade or the viper renegade (being Herald one of my two favorite classes in the game and renegade my least favorite by far).

    You misunderstood me there. I'm not against trailblazer because it sacrifices some damage, I'm against it because its just too strong. some condi builds have just very low power damage but the dps is still balanced versus other full glass builds so the balance is completely destroyed. lose 12% dmg and quadruple effective health in the process. didn't that destroy wvsw balance aswell when it got introduced?
    Nevertheless, have you done high level fractals or raids? because condi as a whole is bad in fractals and only works for fb because that thing is just broken, maybe condi weaver on some bosses in bad pugs.
    How much damage can your c herald do? this actually matters in raids.
    Alac ren fills a whole different role than condi herald to begin with. it is an offensive support, stacks might, alacrity, has an op lifesteal aura and can even stunlock trash in fractals with darkrazor while doing condi herald levels of sustained damage while having decent burst. alac ren can do 70k+ spike dps in fractals, c herald has no spike at all.
    Bring your c herald into 100cm and then compare that to a dh/weaver/slb.
    And regarding raids, what is the dps potential? core condi rev was doing ~30-ish before all the nerfs so it should be on 25k max as core shiro/mallyx now? probably lower and even lower with trailblazer. i estimate the glint variant to be at 22k or 23k with full viper. ok it can pulse some prot, might, and fury for the 10 targets. the only problem is that this is 99.9% of the times covered by somebody else in raids.
    I really do not see how this could be considered good in raids or fractals in any way. All it does is being quite tanky but you need to kill the boss somehow and low dps means more mechanics and higher chance to fail and well this low dps would mean a kick most of the time.
    Tldr: Don't bring solo tank builds into group content.

  • Ordin.8341Ordin.8341 Member ✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    how new upcoming patch will affect things? and should I switch from Mesmer to Revant, Necro or guardian? I'm rather new player so my mes is 29lvl but I hate redoing stuff but playing sub optimal class is no fun, I mostly do pve with occasional pvp in MMOs