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Best 3 classes for Fractals and Raids?

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  • Marieno.1930Marieno.1930 Member
    edited February 25, 2020

    guardian (hfb) renegade (alacrity) and warrior (power bs) by far but i see many people underestimating power gs chronos' dps output which is really insane if played correctly but it is a very difficult class to master.I outdps people 95% of the time with my power mesmer in 50-100 kp cms (that's where i am currently) people just dont know how to play it it's really good.People also forget that this is the class with the 3rd highest benchmark in the game at 37.6k

  • Safandula.8723Safandula.8723 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2020

    @Shardex.7486 said:
    @Ordin.8341 If you are a new player, you should not care much about what's the high level meta. Any spec can run fractals/raids. And specs can get buffs/nerfs at any point. If you bought one of the expansions you get a free lvl 80 boost item anyways. Find a nice guild and youre good to go.

    He doesnt ask for high end meta, but rather for classes that are not bad, there is a diffrence.
    Guard is the safest pick - can play power dps, condi dps, healer power/condi boon hubrid, nevro is good as well - good power dps, decent condi dps. Rev - condi dps, alac heal, alac hybrid dps. All those classes have use in raids and fractals, while mesmer is simply dead in fractals

    make prepardness baseline plz

  • @Marieno.1930 said:
    guardian (hfb) renegade (alacrity) and warrior (power bs) by far but i see many people underestimating power gs chronos' dps output which is really insane if played correctly but it is a very difficult class to master.I outdps people 95% of the time with my power mesmer in 50-100 kp cms (that's where i am currently) people just dont know how to play it it's really good.People also forget that this is the class with the 3rd highest benchmark in the game at 37.6k

    It's not bad on casual groups, it'll fall behind on good parties though, but for pugging it's nice having some utility like boonstrip, pulls if needed etc, and benchmark isn't really a good way to compare DPS in fractals as they favor burst, personally haven't seen any power chrono breaking 100k burst yet.

  • zethra.8491zethra.8491 Member ✭✭

    Hey guys/
    for Fractals….as of now, 08/20
    Is Guardian still a safe bet ?
    other two similar classes that also can do well in fractals ?

    Thanks in advance !

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian, revenant, and guardian unfortunately.

  • zombyturtle.5980zombyturtle.5980 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian ranger warrior and rev all are meta classes in both raids in fractals.

  • DKRathalos.9625DKRathalos.9625 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shade.8971 said:
    Guard is the best in fractals. DH brings strong burst. Quickbrand for a dps support hybrid. HB the best healer for pugs. Druid/chrono in 2020 lol.

    Rev is nice for alac. The extra utility their forms have can be extremely OP and are useful in pugs. Most revs have no idea what their other utility skills are, sadly. Most will sit in Kalla anf Shiro thinking the measly DPS gain is it worth it. Heal rev is lol. 9 out of 10 times heal rev pugs have no idea what they are doing.

    Banners are nice but again in t4 daily pugs they dont realize they need to pick them up for the CDR and move them.

    DPS I find any class fine so long as they know what they are doing. I have gone into the ooze boss as a scourge knowing their dps is on the low end for a quick burn but somehow managed to outdps a power weaver.

    Yeah I regularly saw people playing rev didn't really know what is in their pocket. They don't even know how to bubble centaur in snowblind fractal or maybe switch to Demon when there is No Pain No Gain, or go dwarf for extra stab when fighting those last boss chaos since daze a lot.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 10, 2020

    I also think we go too easily with rev. It's a bit the old core warrior; as long as you had banners + EA you were not looking at the dps and you had warrior with 6k DPS, no mace no CC, etc in 100cm pug, but it was fine apparently (You added a low DPS chrono + zero DPS druid, it was optimal :+1: ). Where nowadays Berserkers you can see them top dps with the peak performance build for fractals.

    Stab and Demon stance are the common points or the complaints and I don't see so many issues with that, except one wipe/gg may be.
    But the real prerequisites : F2-F4 perma alacrity+ the 12 mights, AP, the staff (+ darkrazor daze), soulcleave's summit, and a correct dps (~10k) ... erh....
    It's not that easy to play if don't want to be out of energy, make good use of Charged Mists and of course all differents utilities, But I rarely see a lot of impactful ren.

  • I would say chrono, fire brand, and alac.

    If you have these three professions you can raid or frac whenever you want. You can tank , boon, and hard carry your way to victory. I can't think of a comp that doesn't run any of these classes.

    All these classes also have good dps builds for solo play as well .

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2020

    Alac-Renegade, Heal Firebrands , Warriors (with banners)

    Anything regarding to Condi-Heralds: It is bad. It has terrible damage. Its just filled with Sustain, so it can survive extremely long (not in raids, due to Time-Limit)

    Same goes sadly to power heralds too. Just a bit more damage (lets call it "enough") and still good sustain

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @panzerdragon.8791 said:
    I would say chrono, fire brand, and alac.

    If you have these three professions you can raid or frac whenever you want. You can tank , boon, and hard carry your way to victory. I can't think of a comp that doesn't run any of these classes.

    All these classes also have good dps builds for solo play as well .

    Chrono doesn't really match well in fractals, in "good" scenarios.
    Time warp is unplayable with short phases/fights and you don't have other good sources of Slow, so you need to take Improved alacrity and some more assassins's accessories; it's already less more dmg than the expected benchmark in raids. Same with chronophantasma, it's too hazardous; some groups can burst all phases before half your second phantasms trigger.
    I'm not saying you can't deal strong damage in PUG etc, but in a good composition Chrono is not close to be "meta".

    Support chrono. With the come back of IP it's anew playable; but FB/ren is a so strong package of utilities for all fractals and instabilities you can't really compete.

  • @Zhaid Zhem.6508

    Very true. Power chrono is good enough in fracs , but my reasoning for it's inclusion is its ubiquity and flexibility in raids. Heck largos is still basically a mirage fight.

    The other two classes I think most of us are in agreement on.

    Thanks man

  • IMO, DD theif is a solid choice. Nearly infinite evades, and some of the best self heals in the game. Only downside is it is doesn't bring much group utility. However, there is some nice utility in always charging in first, evading all the CC's and being a sort of tank while your group gets ramped up on the pull.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DrNixilis.1784 said:
    In your opinion what are the 3 best classes for Fractals and/or Raids?

    Guardian/rev/ranger.

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 22, 2020

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation - each for pugging/soloing/speedclearing dailies/recs/fractal CMs and pugging/fast/safe/speedclearing raids/raid CMs (could also be more).

    e.g. Fractals at a high level is all about burst. The 3 best (and only relevant due to other classes lacking similar burst) classes are:

    • DH
    • power weaver
    • power Slb

    I've done daily fractals, recs, and CM's for years and literally never seen someone sign up as weaver. I've also gotten maybe a dozen soulbeast this entire time, it's DH or warrior pugs 99% of the time.

  • Shaogin.2679Shaogin.2679 Member ✭✭✭

    All these people talking about Mesmers are living in the past. The best three classes for both fractals and raids are Guardian, Revenant, and Warrior.

    Doc Von Doom

  • Noodle Ant.1605Noodle Ant.1605 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation - each for pugging/soloing/speedclearing dailies/recs/fractal CMs and pugging/fast/safe/speedclearing raids/raid CMs (could also be more).

    e.g. Fractals at a high level is all about burst. The 3 best (and only relevant due to other classes lacking similar burst) classes are:

    • DH
    • power weaver
    • power Slb

    I've done daily fractals, recs, and CM's for years and literally never seen someone sign up as weaver. I've also gotten maybe a dozen soulbeast this entire time, it's DH or warrior pugs 99% of the time.

    Quoting me from 8 months ago :tired_face:

    Either way, the main point was:

    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation

    So were you speedrunning? Or just pugging? The list was just an example (which may have been inaccurate) to show that it can change depending on what you are trying to look at.

    Currently meme’ing on core mesmer for PvE content.

  • Best Class are Rev/Guard/Ranger/Ele/Mesmer/Thief/Warr/Necro (in no order). Let's all be honest, you can use the BEST CLASS but still fail hard if you don't play the class properly.

    I've been into T4s and even CM where a Pchrono outdps a soulbeast, an Alacrity Ren outdps-ing a Berserker, a Healbrand that only gives 12 might and 20% quickness uptime and so much more horrible stuff that will make the BEST CLASS seems like the Worst.

    Oh and I've run with a group running Heal Tempest (that boon madness) with and a Boon Chrono (STM + Alac Well) and still does the same thing as the BEST Comp of Rev + HB

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation - each for pugging/soloing/speedclearing dailies/recs/fractal CMs and pugging/fast/safe/speedclearing raids/raid CMs (could also be more).

    e.g. Fractals at a high level is all about burst. The 3 best (and only relevant due to other classes lacking similar burst) classes are:

    • DH
    • power weaver
    • power Slb

    I've done daily fractals, recs, and CM's for years and literally never seen someone sign up as weaver. I've also gotten maybe a dozen soulbeast this entire time, it's DH or warrior pugs 99% of the time.

    Quoting me from 8 months ago :tired_face:

    Either way, the main point was:

    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation

    So were you speedrunning? Or just pugging? The list was just an example (which may have been inaccurate) to show that it can change depending on what you are trying to look at.

    I'm basically saying people always say that weaver is such a great class for fractals, but you never see anyone play it. It's effort:reward ratio just isn't worth it I think.

  • @Shiyo.3578 said:>
    I'm basically saying people always say that weaver is such a great class for fractals, but you never see anyone play it. It's effort:reward ratio just isn't worth it I think.

    I'm in an agreement with this statement. The Effort vs Reward on playing weaver on a pug group is too low that you might as well play a different class all together. It only works if your running with a group that is considered great (quick CC, good boon uptime, proper support) which basically ALMOST equates to a static one.

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2020

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:

    @Shiyo.3578 said:

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation - each for pugging/soloing/speedclearing dailies/recs/fractal CMs and pugging/fast/safe/speedclearing raids/raid CMs (could also be more).

    e.g. Fractals at a high level is all about burst. The 3 best (and only relevant due to other classes lacking similar burst) classes are:

    • DH
    • power weaver
    • power Slb

    I've done daily fractals, recs, and CM's for years and literally never seen someone sign up as weaver. I've also gotten maybe a dozen soulbeast this entire time, it's DH or warrior pugs 99% of the time.

    Quoting me from 8 months ago :tired_face:

    Either way, the main point was:

    IMO the context is very broad. The 'best' classes will greatly vary depending on the situation

    So were you speedrunning? Or just pugging? The list was just an example (which may have been inaccurate) to show that it can change depending on what you are trying to look at.

    I'm basically saying people always say that weaver is such a great class for fractals, but you never see anyone play it. It's effort:reward ratio just isn't worth it I think.

    I agree :+1:
    Weaver needs strong mastery, with a long and paced rotation. It's not "that" hard either but the real issue is the lack of sustain, self buffs, and of support/versatility.
    It is okai for CM, until you have some vicious instabilities ; like 300% dmg in the back, or +damage per boons, fire balls; etc and you die very fast ; until you switch to an other fractal and you find some more troubles.
    SB, War, guard have much more sustain and also much more buff and utilities for the group to adapt to differents situations.

    Weaver is not bad, with friends in a good group. There is no real "bad" class for fractals, except may be condi scourge, deadeye, some niche builds.
    But if you pug you can't have too much faith in others, particulary in FB and REN to provide heals, mights, protection, walls etc, you can find a couple of surprises somtimes ; you need some reserve, some panic skills, some utilities to fill up the needs or the lacks.
    People should prioritize an other class (SB, DH, berserker, Holo etc for DPS) over a weaver if they want to start fractals or improve themself and the party.

  • The answer is quite simple. What's meta in every content ?

    1) Renegade
    2) Warrior

    Both of these are used literally in every single encounter. Renegade comes top because it can either be Alacrigade, either Condi RR, either full Condi DPS.
    Bannerslave warrior, either power or condi, is meta everywhere.

    3) Ranger.

    Druid or Soulbeasts stancesharing on a few bosses for raids. Soulbeast for fractals, Druid for strikes.

    4) Guardian

    It isn't meta on much stuff, but is very decent everywhere. Meta in fractals as pQfb, sub-meta as DH. Meta in strikes as Cfb (DH for Bone). Meta on some raid bosses as Cfb, DH is decent on power ones.

    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    If you ask only about Raids : Engineer's holo and mesmers are very, very good.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    What? Weaver is only better than holo if you have short phases and splits which just wont happen in pugs. Not everyone cares about cm boss speedkills which is what weaver + slb are good at. Holo sees plenty of play in fractals.

    Ranger and Guardian use both different builds and playstyles in fractals and raids so i would suggest either warrior or alac ren as a starter.

  • @Antioche.7034 said:
    The answer is quite simple. What's meta in every content ?

    1) Renegade
    2) Warrior

    Both of these are used literally in every single encounter. Renegade comes top because it can either be Alacrigade, either Condi RR, either full Condi DPS.
    Bannerslave warrior, either power or condi, is meta everywhere.

    3) Ranger.

    Druid or Soulbeasts stancesharing on a few bosses for raids. Soulbeast for fractals, Druid for strikes.

    4) Guardian

    It isn't meta on much stuff, but is very decent everywhere. Meta in fractals as pQfb, sub-meta as DH. Meta in strikes as Cfb (DH for Bone). Meta on some raid bosses as Cfb, DH is decent on power ones.

    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    If you ask only about Raids : Engineer's holo and mesmers are very, very good.

    This is wrong, warriors and revs aren’t meta on Largos.

    If you really want something for ALL fractals and raids, it’s ranger.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Marieno.1930 said:
    guardian (hfb) renegade (alacrity) and warrior (power bs) by far but i see many people underestimating power gs chronos' dps output which is really insane if played correctly but it is a very difficult class to master.I outdps people 95% of the time with my power mesmer in 50-100 kp cms (that's where i am currently) people just dont know how to play it it's really good.People also forget that this is the class with the 3rd highest benchmark in the game at 37.6k

    Well, Mesmer isn’t listed on Discretize’s site at all, which is probably part of that perception.

  • silklash.6154silklash.6154 Member ✭✭
    edited September 13, 2020

    It’s not listed because Mesmer is garbage for CMs at high levels. Mesmer burst comes in at about 10-12s which is too late compared to holo and weaver damage which peaks at 2-3s.

    Mesmer is fine for general t4s, just not CMs which is why it’s not on the site

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    What? Weaver is only better than holo if you have short phases and splits which just wont happen in pugs. Not everyone cares about cm boss speedkills which is what weaver + slb are good at. Holo sees plenty of play in fractals.

    Ranger and Guardian use both different builds and playstyles in fractals and raids so i would suggest either warrior or alac ren as a starter.

    The question asked wasn't "What to play", but "What's the best ?". Meta wise, Weaver is better than Holo in fractals, it's factually correct. Maybe you'll see one Holo out of 50 300+KP groups and it's not bad at any rate, but weaver is still above. Even in pugs unless you run 50 KP with Hfb.

  • @silklash.6154 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    The answer is quite simple. What's meta in every content ?

    1) Renegade
    2) Warrior

    Both of these are used literally in every single encounter. Renegade comes top because it can either be Alacrigade, either Condi RR, either full Condi DPS.
    Bannerslave warrior, either power or condi, is meta everywhere.

    3) Ranger.

    Druid or Soulbeasts stancesharing on a few bosses for raids. Soulbeast for fractals, Druid for strikes.

    4) Guardian

    It isn't meta on much stuff, but is very decent everywhere. Meta in fractals as pQfb, sub-meta as DH. Meta in strikes as Cfb (DH for Bone). Meta on some raid bosses as Cfb, DH is decent on power ones.

    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    If you ask only about Raids : Engineer's holo and mesmers are very, very good.

    This is wrong, warriors and revs aren’t meta on Largos.

    If you really want something for ALL fractals and raids, it’s ranger.

    If you use portal on Largos both are completly fine to start with, and even if you don't, renegade can pull 30+k on Largos. Warrior isn't great for split though. I could tell you Druid isn't meta on Matthias as the same kind of argument. But if we head that way of course we won't find a class to do everything with.

  • silklash.6154silklash.6154 Member ✭✭
    edited September 15, 2020

    @Antioche.7034 said:

    @silklash.6154 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    The answer is quite simple. What's meta in every content ?

    1) Renegade
    2) Warrior

    Both of these are used literally in every single encounter. Renegade comes top because it can either be Alacrigade, either Condi RR, either full Condi DPS.
    Bannerslave warrior, either power or condi, is meta everywhere.

    3) Ranger.

    Druid or Soulbeasts stancesharing on a few bosses for raids. Soulbeast for fractals, Druid for strikes.

    4) Guardian

    It isn't meta on much stuff, but is very decent everywhere. Meta in fractals as pQfb, sub-meta as DH. Meta in strikes as Cfb (DH for Bone). Meta on some raid bosses as Cfb, DH is decent on power ones.

    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    If you ask only about Raids : Engineer's holo and mesmers are very, very good.

    This is wrong, warriors and revs aren’t meta on Largos.

    If you really want something for ALL fractals and raids, it’s ranger.

    If you use portal on Largos both are completly fine to start with, and even if you don't, renegade can pull 30+k on Largos. Warrior isn't great for split though. I could tell you Druid isn't meta on Matthias as the same kind of argument. But if we head that way of course we won't find a class to do everything with.

    Maybe godlike ren can pull 30+k on largos but it’s pretty generally accepted purple class is better than anything else for dps there.

    You can still run condi sb on Mathias. I didn’t say Druid, I said ranger as a class. They’re the only class with builds usable at everything without losing too much efficiency.

    The fact of the matter is, even NA pugs nowadays mostly just look for purple classes on largos cause it’s that efficient. Other dps is definitely doable, I’m not saying it’s not, but it’s not close to meta.

    Yes, wars and rev are great universal classes and there are beginner strats that use them but that wasn’t what OP asked. In a vacuum, ranger is the only class where you can have a build that slots into everything in pve

  • @silklash.6154 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:

    @silklash.6154 said:

    @Antioche.7034 said:
    The answer is quite simple. What's meta in every content ?

    1) Renegade
    2) Warrior

    Both of these are used literally in every single encounter. Renegade comes top because it can either be Alacrigade, either Condi RR, either full Condi DPS.
    Bannerslave warrior, either power or condi, is meta everywhere.

    3) Ranger.

    Druid or Soulbeasts stancesharing on a few bosses for raids. Soulbeast for fractals, Druid for strikes.

    4) Guardian

    It isn't meta on much stuff, but is very decent everywhere. Meta in fractals as pQfb, sub-meta as DH. Meta in strikes as Cfb (DH for Bone). Meta on some raid bosses as Cfb, DH is decent on power ones.

    Mesmer, thieves, engis and necro see no plays in fractals so they are off, so the only other one would be Elementalist with weaver being meta in fractals and very decent everywhere else.

    If you ask only about Raids : Engineer's holo and mesmers are very, very good.

    This is wrong, warriors and revs aren’t meta on Largos.

    If you really want something for ALL fractals and raids, it’s ranger.

    If you use portal on Largos both are completly fine to start with, and even if you don't, renegade can pull 30+k on Largos. Warrior isn't great for split though. I could tell you Druid isn't meta on Matthias as the same kind of argument. But if we head that way of course we won't find a class to do everything with.

    Maybe godlike ren can pull 30+k on largos but it’s pretty generally accepted purple class is better than anything else for dps there.

    You can still run condi sb on Mathias. I didn’t say Druid, I said ranger as a class. They’re the only class with builds usable at everything without losing too much efficiency.

    The fact of the matter is, even NA pugs nowadays mostly just look for purple classes on largos cause it’s that efficient. Other dps is definitely doable, I’m not saying it’s not, but it’s not close to meta.

    Yes, wars and rev are great universal classes and there are beginner strats that use them but that wasn’t what OP asked. In a vacuum, ranger is the only class where you can have a build that slots into everything in pve

    Ren on Largos is just as "out of meta" as slb on Matthias, though. I rarely see people being blocked on asking mirages or Cchronos for Largos, aslong as you pull your weight. Renegade fits as much the description as ranger does IMO. I can say exactly the same as you did, "It's pretty generally accepted that Cwar with weavers are better than anything else there (Matthias)", it doesn't mean that ranger isn't very decently playable, just like ren is very decently playable on Largos and is meta on everything else. I completly agree with you about ranger, but I don't see why you decided that what I said was "wrong", just because it's only the second best DPS class if you use one of the two strats available for ONE boss in the game xD.

    Anyway cheers, I think the OP is completly answered at this point, so I'll hop out.

  • I basically meant that as of now, I think the gap between using a cchrono and condi mirage vs any other condi dps in largos is much bigger than the gap between slb and weaver on Matthias. From my pug experience in NA I’ve had much more success getting into most runs as a mix of dps except for largos where I’ve even gotten kicked multiple times for not being purple class.

    Wasn’t trying to insult you or anything but I just wanted to point out originally to the OP that if you want to be welcome in all pug raids and fractals and cms using just one class, unfortunately it’s kinda just Ranger. Mesmer/guard/rev are all close seconds but do lack just a few things here and there

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 20, 2020

    Firebrand/Renegade/Berserker/Power Soulbeast/Power Soulbeast = easily best fractal comp right now

    Power Reaper is best fractal carry for bad groups though.