Pvp Balance Suggestions (skip to 20 mins in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJisX9-QAqc

The only thing I watched was the ranger part.

• Lower the damage on Gazelle's Charge to 1.4k instead of 2k base.
• Lower the % damage modifiers on Moment of Clarity and Attack of Opportunity to match Remorseless at 25% (instead of 50%)

Gazelle's Charge will no longer hit for 9-12k depending on how squishy the target is even though the only way it can currently hit that hard is through buffing the pet several times + landing an interrupt and hoping the skill that got buffed was Charge instead of any number of the other attacks. Also, the skill has a 2 second windup where the Gazelle is entirely stationary. So, while the damage can be annoying, the only way anyone would get hit by it is if they were literally ignoring the pet and never glanced over at the Gazelle to see if it was getting ready to use it.

The Head Toss combo that often relies on interrupting with a stationary, non-stowable Hilt Bash can be avoided with a stunbreak and dodge once every 20 seconds and you'll avoid it as well.

Regarding the longbow range and greatsword 4, ranger relies heavily on landing hard ccs and whittling people down over time by trading cooldowns effectively. Greatsword cannot currently trade with anything that well in melee range. It loses hard to Holos, Symbolbrand's, s/d and d/p Thieves, Reapers, d/sh Spellbreakers literally anything with a node presence will out-trade GS ranger. As a result, we need to hit and run and land Mauls (very telegraphed, both visually and with an audio cue). Nerfing the cooldown for GS4's block will mess up muscle memory just like the auto evade and Crippling Throw removal did. The Counterattack Kick is pretty easily dodged as well.

• If you really want to hurt our ability to stay on node with gs (already low) lower the block uptime, reducing the 3 second block to 2 seconds will have a similar effect.

Some examples of me fighting against ranger on multiple classes:

1. - Mirror Matchup
2. - Punishing Maul
3. - Countering Longbow and Punishing Evade Frames
4. - Good example on how to avoid/bait out ranger skills whilst simultaneously keeping track of pet attacks in a winning 1v2.

Also if you don't want the ranger to gain access to the Counterattack Kick, just don't hit the block and bait it out with skill cancels like you would for Full Counters on Spellbreakers. You already know the cooldown of the skill (12s traited), so pay attention to weapon swap timers as well and it'll be even easier to watch for.

Coming from a thief player, you can literally just D/P Shadow Shot the block because the blind is unblockable so the Counterattack Kick won't hit anyways. You can also use an instant cast, unblockable 600 range teleport from Daredevil's Swipe that dazes with Sleight of Hand on a 16.75s cooldown to interrupt it every single time the ranger uses it right after swapping to Greatsword. If you're running S/D, both your Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike are unblockable (using it forces the ranger to cancel it early or give you free damage). So, Thief has more than enough ways to deal with the block.

@"Vallun.2071" said:Buff Swipe to 900 Range

Yeah, no. If anything should be happening to Swipe it should be it loses Unblockable so taking daredevil is an actual trade off, rather than this wishy washy "We know thieves will get TOO mad if it loses range so let's give them Unblockable on a skill that is already one of the most impactful and least counterplayable things in the game."

speed runes are one of the few defenses of low mobility classes. nerf mobility hard or leave these runes alone.

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Nerfing the cooldown for GS4's block will mess up muscle memory

Sorry but that's the weakest excuse I've ever heard for not nerfing something. It even beats out "jUsT dOdGe".

I have to say i disagree way less to your suggestions than usually.

1. To general PvP suggestions point mobility: I think it is fine when roaming +1 classes like a dp Thief have good mobility, means i don't agree totally to lower a lot of port-ranges for Thief. I can see it for sword 2 (in particular because a sword Thief also has a little bit more duel abilities than a dp and sword 2 is not rly a rotation mobility but more of an infight mobility) but i don't like to see it for other ports like Shadowstep utility or Shortbow. Rev only has good mobility when having a target, Rev is mainly a roaming class (better nerf dodge uptime to lower duel potential in particular on point), i would not touch teleport ranges on sword offhand or on Phase Traversal for Rev. I think the only classes should not have good rotation mobility are the bruiser/ sidenoder like Warrior and pure teamfight/ support classes like Necro/ FB. Also i have no clue how to lower Warriors mobility when it is linked to greatsword without overnerfing the weapon as a whole. Holo has also too much rotation mobility for that it can do much more then only +1ing and assist in teamfights. I agree to speedrune.

2. General PvP suggestions point ICDs: In general i don't like the consept of ICDs, it always is a cheap and clunky way of preventing spam. Luckily you don't want to add it too that many things.

Haven't watched all classes yet maybe i add some suggestions later (for now only talking about stuff in miss for Ele and Mesmer):

3. Ele: I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.No clue what you mean with an animation on instant skills. Just like for Mantras having an animation doesn't make it easier to dodge. I do not understand how you want to add a pre animation makes you able to dodge the instant cast from Ele scepter 2? Scepter 2 needs a little delay to make it work like you want, the skill use can be instant for the Ele that he still can combo but the activation/ the hit needs a delay (1/2 sec, nothing big).

4. Mesmer: First i am happy that i don't hear complains about Mirage Cloak and IH here.A. Mirage Cloak: Mirage is meant and designed as spec with a strength vs cc, it is counterable/ can be outplayed and the Mirage still gets way more rewarded for evading the cc in the first place, he can not counterburst, cannot use ambushes, cannot move while cc etc., the cc is not completely neutralized (all important differences to stunbreak dodges). We have way stronger and also more passive cc counters in the game. Ppl just need to learn to use the one braincell more they need to hit their follow ups after a stun/ knockdown etc. On a class like Mesmer which is designed to combo instant stuff with non instant stuff and is normally kind of squishy and without an op amount of dodges (after lot of vigor trait nerfs) this is no balance problem anymore. It is a strong mechanic no doubt (nothing i would develop in the first place but after it already is in the game we have to admit, that for Mesmer it is kind of fitting and not gamebreaking per se), ofc nothing current Warriors should get for example but it is not as op as ppl like to make it. If anything it lowers the skillfloor a very little bit but not the skill ceiling at all. There is no need to touch that mechanic and destroy the nature of Mirage and probably make the spec unplayable over it.

   B. IH: Same with IH. IH is just the trait only including the command ability, making Mesmer able to command their clones to do specific attacks when using a dodge. By itself an active, skillful and interesting mechanic.It is not overperforming on Powermes mostly because the clone ambushes are not overperforming on power weapons. How much dmg/reward the Mesmer can get from IH/ ambush mechanic is dictated by the clone ambush skill design NOT by IH. And it is the best to do the fine tuning by reworking or nerfing overperforming (clone) ambush skills, instead killing an active and skillful mechanic completely with a hammer. IH is not the issue, the passive condi ambush design (or the too high dmg from condi clone ambushes and normal clone autoattacks) is. As a dodge dmg trait compared to other dodge dmg traits (for example Warriors or Engi) it has already way more restrictions because the Mesmer needs to generate clones (at least one) to make it even work. Means the Mesmer cannot just dodge to make dmg like a Warrior, he needs to generate a clone first. So either the Mesmer uses a clone generating skill before (means the dmg per second is remarkable lowered because of the big delay, also means Mesmer cannot dodge defensive when needed and do dmg in the same time with no clone like other classes can) or he needs to trait for DE to have a sure dmg effect on each dodge like other classes have. Add to that, that on most weapons the clone dmg per dodge even with 3 clones up is lower than some other dodge dmg traits, then you see how different Mesmer is treated by the community. Its highly hypocrite and shows a big lack of game- and classknowledge, often even from Mesmer mains themself (rofl). Mirage often is called the spec with the most broken mechanics, but the mechanics per se aren't even that broken, quite the opposite: the IH mechanic is per se pretty skillful, in fact Mirage with balanced ambush design is a very high skill ceiling spec (ofc depending a bit on build still, like detargeting stuff should not exist, it is also nothing needed for Mirage, Mirage has a pretty defined nature without that already). As often for Mesmer if you look deeper into the class mechanic, then stuff is the total opposite from what the bronze propaganda in this forums claims, mechanics most ppl call the most broken by itself i call pretty skillful (at least when balanced well). Thief and Rev sometimes have similar problems with the community (all classes need bit higher iq and classknowledge to understand have that problem with the kind of low skilled playerbase left in this game actually).

Whatever, i mean also with Condimes being less of a problem now it still is too passively and with too low skill ceiling/ floor playable. I think without nerfing the overall condi dmg application it still needs a rework of condi ambushes (means make them more about effects like sword ambush is designed, less about dmg) or at least nerf the dmg of condi clone ambushes (make them a remarkable weaker version of the Mesmers own condi ambush, just like it is on power weapons) and also make normal clone autoattacks nearly zero condi dmg skills (just like it is on power weapons). Compensate the Mesmer with giving them active ways of condi applications back (mostly through shatters).

I also would not only remove the might stacks from MoP. I think instant high (! i dont care for less than 2k instant dmg) dmg skills braindead spammable without any restrictions (like the need to interrupt or something) should not exist at all without a delay to add a pre animation. For Mantras (compared to Eles Scepter) a delay doesn't make sense because of the double punishment, means just rework MoP into a non dmg Mantra (make it a boonremove and don't touch the instant nature at all). The Stealthduration on PU should get removed, compensate the Mesmer with higher Boonduration (but no offensive boons!), maybe make Aegis or better Protection a 100% proc the moment the Mesmer drops out of stealth. Or make the Mesmer receive 20% (numbers are only examples) less dmg for 3 secs (not a boon but an effect) after he went out of stealth. Something like that. Defensive traitlines should not add dmg to a build and they should not give the ability for unpredictable, barely counterable oneshots out of nowhere and low effort bait mechanics for still high dmg builds. Give defensive traitlines higher opportunity costs in dmg already. It can't be that builds with one or even two defensive traitliens still can kill high risk builds but can facetank for ages or just disengage and bait out defensive cds without brainuse after failing to oneshot out of nowhere.

In general @Anet: There is no need for double trade off treatment of elite specs. The trade off already is, that you have to give up another traitline. Often elite specs add more/ other and new gameplay mechanics instead boring and often passive dmg or sustain multiplier you have in lot of core traitlines, what is per se a good thing from elite specs. These mechanics are often also not op per se. Just balance the overperforming and passive parts (like Lost Time or Chronophantasma on Chrono) without destroying the specs (by deleting IP and f5 for no reason) and without making gameplay mechanics clunky and unfun and destroying gameplay flow. Stop spreading Chrono treatment to other specs/ classes i beg you! Often the defensive core traitlines are the low skill ceiling parts and are what make builds op not the elite traitlines.

Damn wall of text again... some day i might learn how to talk in short :joy:

@mortrialus.3062 said:

@"Vallun.2071" said:Buff Swipe to 900 Range

Go away with that trade off kitten! Swipe is super clunky to play with that short range. Make it 900 and remove the unblockable. And make Blinding Powder instant again.

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele: I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

Did you really just compare a utility with 40s recharge to a base dodge on a ~7s recharge?

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

How is it a base dodge if you have to trait for it ?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

It doesn't consume a utility slot. Pretty easy to follow.

Imagine how insane weaver would be if it could get stunbreak on its base dodge and slot another utility.

You can play word-games and argue semantics on this all you want, ToF is not the issue with weaver.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

Right, it still consumes a whole trait choice. And the Mesmer has to use dodges for lot of other things too, he cannot keep all of them for cc. The Weaver utility skill doesn't have that trade off, it even adds more dodges in addition to the normal dodges.

It is an ammo skill with extra long dodge duration, it doesn't have 1 dodge with normal dodge duration only every 40 secs, what are you talking? Also it is not about how much cd you have, compared to cds of most cc the Ele can just stunbreak dodge and counterburst each cc a normal build has (not necessary builds for total stunlock with like 3+ccs equipped, good that Weaver also has nearly perma stabi right, so with that it even can too) as good as a Mesmer by being able to forgiving facetank and resustain way more than any existing Mesmer build.

But anyway i am talking about the mechanic itself stunbreakdodge is nothing the game should have no matter what cds (ofc with higher cds its less of an issue but still an issue). Just as Warriors (bugging?) passive immunity to cc and passive stabi application should not exist (40 secs cd or not). Warrior even can trait that they get high value from being cced while they can facetank way more player mistakes and 2 shot squishy specs with autoattacks (maybe a bit exaggerating here to make it clear).

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

shortshighted view.Immagine putting EM for weaver in fire against Pyromancer's Puissance.is it "free" if you have to give up perma 25might stacks?

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

Still all just word games.

ToF still not the issue with weaver.

Is it the low CD pulsing stackable burning effects? Is it the low CD weaponskill evades? Naaaah, cleeeearly its the 40s recharge stunbreak. /eyeroll

@"bravan.3876" said:

2. General PvP suggestions point ICDs: In general i don't like the consept of ICDs, it always is a cheap and clunky way of preventing spam. Luckily you don't want to add it too that many things.

This. The more ICDs enter the game, the less I feel able to tout GW2s combat system above other games.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Nerfing the cooldown for GS4's block will mess up muscle memory

Okay here's some quick maths for you.

• Vallun wants to keep the 3 second block but increase the cooldown to 15 seconds. Result? 1/5 uptime on block, messes up muscle memory for rangers on a skill we've had since release.
• I want to lower the block to 2 seconds and leave the cooldown at 12 seconds. Result? 1/6 uptime on block, muscle memory stays the same.

It's possible to reduce the effectiveness of abilities without changing the pace of the game and the way the classes play.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"bravan.3876" said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

No he is right and ignoring my answer will also not make you being right at all. The only one playing word games is you here. Like insisting on a 40s cd when it is an ammoskill giving 1 sec stunbreakevade way more often on a spec with nearly perma stabi and insane facetank and resustain ability + high low effort dmg appliation. Ofc this skill is an issue on Weaver (in particular on Weaver actually), the whole mechanic itself is an issue, no matter what cd and what class, it always will be and i explained why. Ignorance will not help you.

@bravan.3876 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

It does have a 40s recharge.

Ammo does not change this. The ammo effectively means you get 1 "free" use at the start, and after that you can use it every 40s. I don't think you fully understand the ammo mechanic or the maths behind it. Over a 10 minute game, you can use it at most 17 times, which equates to a 35s cooldown (and thats only if you use both initial charges right at the start, and use it immediately on cooldown thereafter).

And no, you have not "explained why" like its a scientific fact. You've just declared your own opinion. "Ignorance will not help you"

Stunbreak+evade isn't an issue with Roll For Initiative. It isn't an issue with Lightning Reflexes. It isn't an issue with Sand Through Glass. It isn't an issue with Riposting Shadows (that skill has other issues, but not this).

I don't understand why you're even arguing this one very very minor point out of the plethora of things raised by Vallun.

ToF is not the reason Fireweaver is so strong. Riptide, Earthen Vortex, and the various burn-pulsing skills are what are propping it up.

@bravan.3876 said:

A. Mirage Cloak: Mirage is meant and designed as spec with a strength vs cc, it is counterable/ can be outplayed and the Mirage still gets way more rewarded for evading the cc in the first place, he can not counterburst, cannot use ambushes, cannot move while cc etc., the cc is not completely neutralized (all important differences to stunbreak dodges).

It is not directly aimed to our discussion but with thinking about that 1 sec you will understand that this explains it. Means i clearly explained why i don't think the mechanic of stunbreak dodges is healthy for the game. But in other words directly aimed to you: It makes dodging the cc in the first place useless (aside from some cc skills which also have insane dmg included, what should not exist either), the player gets rewarded for facetanking a high impact (high cd) skill from the opponent and just stunbreakdodge the follow up. He can ignore the cc completely, it would be a waste to dodge the cc because the follow up dmg still needs to be dodged too... With stunbreakdodge It doesn't matter how long and hard the cc is, it is not valuable anymore to dodge it. With stunbreak dodge you completely neutralize the value of cc, also Mirage Cloak isn't even near to be that gamebreaking and low skill. The player literally gets rewarded for low reaction time, rewarded for a missplay. There is no punishment for eating the cc anymore.

And that is without mentioning that i think a stunbreak dodge on an already forgiving facetank class with nearly perma stabi is ofc way more of an issue than a stunbreak dodge on a squishy melee class like Thief with barely any stabi uptime and a classmechanic that is in general build around active defense. On Thief the passive dodge trait is ofc way more of an issue than Roll for Initiative.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

3. Ele
   : I think the evade or the stunbreak on Twist of Fate needs to go, add a combofinisher for heals instead or whatever. Stunbreak dodges are gamebreaking we had this discussion with EM on Mesmer, it is the same for Weaver and Rev.

Rofl you rly try to talk gold to kitten here... When used first the cd is already running, means when used right after another you can use the next one 5 secs after the first, then after 30 secs (because 10 secs cds from the main recharge are already gone) you can use another one (if you use it that way), then you have the first time 40 secs cd on the next use. That is something completely different and way better than what you try to make it (40secs cd for one normal dodge). And if you then just time them when you get hard-cced these cds outrun every normal builds cc cooldowns. Means even without nearly perma stabi a Weaver barely can be lock downed.

dat ranger mirror was squeaky clean

@bravan.3876 said:(...)

Rofl you rly try to talk gold to kitten here... When used first the cd is already running, means when used right after another you can use the next one 5 secs after the first, then after 30 secs (because 10 secs cds from the main recharge are already gone) you can use another one (if you use it that way), then you have the first time 40 secs cd on the next use. That is something completely different and way better than what you try to make it (40secs cd for one normal dodge). The only thing i am not sure of is, if it is called an ammo skill or not, because it has no visible recharge line like Mantras have for each charge but it is far away from being only one dodge with 40 secs cd. And if you then just time them when you get hard-cced these cds outrun every normal builds cc cooldowns. Means even without nearly perma stabi a Weaver barely can be lock downed.

Twist of Fate has not been changed at all, ever. How has it become an issue now?

It hasn't.

Traiting fire should reduce the sustain on weaver significantly, more than it does now. And the burning is too bursty. Fire auras cleansing and the burning application should be changed to damage over time (look at the Glyph and double attuned Primordial Stance). I wouldn't even touch Invigorating Strikes, but that might become necessary. That's fine tuning though.

The overall CDs on the weapon evades can be increased too or the durations decresed when all other builds get nerfs too. Otherwise you push water weavers and Lightning Rod eles out of the game (depending on which weapon skills you nerf), while the issue is with fire weaver only. Heck, you can reduce the evade uptime on ToF too, if you need to, if you nerf damage elsewhere or add some other sustain to weaver.

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@"shadowpass.4236" said:Nerfing the cooldown for GS4's block will mess up muscle memory

This entire game is nothing but muscle memory. I haven't watched the video, but I can't imagine that any sort of suggestion there would have any real effect on GW2's oppressively low skill ceiling, particularly if this is a line that's spoken within it. One of the biggest problems with GW2 is that everything is so tempo-based, that the game is more or less a mash-up of rock-paper-scissors and simon-says. Combat is extremely passive and reactive rather than something that rewards good movement and risk calculation.

The changes that you NEED in GW2 is effectively GW3.

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bravan.3876 said:(...)

Rofl you rly try to talk gold to kitten here... When used first the cd is already running, means when used right after another you can use the next one 5 secs after the first, then after 30 secs (because 10 secs cds from the main recharge are already gone) you can use another one (if you use it that way), then you have the first time 40 secs cd on the next use. That is something completely different and way better than what you try to make it (40secs cd for one normal dodge). The only thing i am not sure of is, if it is called an ammo skill or not, because it has no visible recharge line like Mantras have for each charge but it is far away from being only one dodge with 40 secs cd. And if you then just time them when you get hard-cced these cds outrun every normal builds cc cooldowns. Means even without nearly perma stabi a Weaver barely can be lock downed.

Who said it just became an issue? In my opinion it always was an issue, no matter if used or not. It is an ammo btw i just didn't remember it had the same recharge line running on the edge of the tooltip. Just checked it ingame.

I think the mechanic itself is not healthy in general but after rethinking (i forgot about Roll for Initiative what i never rly considered an issue and i just asked me why) i think if we have single skills with high cd on squishy (melee) classes it is clearly less of an issue, less enough to not delete it maybe. Still on Weaver with an ammo skill on a class with nearly perma stabi and such facetank ability it is not healthy just as it isn't on Mesmers EM trait because of the low cd (still more than 7secs considering the Mesmer cannot use dodges only for stunbreaks). Same for Rev with that overall insane amount of dodges/ stunbreaks in general. And before we remove soemthing else on these builds, i would go for this one first because as said, i still think the mechanic is not healthy in general. For Weaver, Rev and Mesmer its the same: The utility and the trait rewarding facetanking the cc too much and neutralize lock down mechanic way too hard and too often considering the whole spec design and cds. On Weaver even more because it adds even more dodges in addition to normal dodges and low cd weapon dodge on a facetank spec with high resustain ability and nearly perma stabi.

Why is your matchmaking system so fucked up ? Can you please change something about it ? E.g. : I don't want to get in teams with ppl i have already blocked I don't want to play with ppl who have a much lower rank in pvp like i have. I don't want to play with ppl who have so much less matches done, like I have. I mean, you collect all the statistical data and DON'T USE IT. The pvp expierience is so terribly bad in this game, I CAN'T BELIEVE it that I have payed real world money for that crap !

@bravan.3876 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bravan.3876 said:(...)

Rofl you rly try to talk gold to kitten here... When used first the cd is already running, means when used right after another you can use the next one 5 secs after the first, then after 30 secs (because 10 secs cds from the main recharge are already gone) you can use another one (if you use it that way), then you have the first time 40 secs cd on the next use. That is something completely different and way better than what you try to make it (40secs cd for one normal dodge). The only thing i am not sure of is, if it is called an ammo skill or not, because it has no visible recharge line like Mantras have for each charge but it is far away from being only one dodge with 40 secs cd. And if you then just time them when you get hard-cced these cds outrun every normal builds cc cooldowns. Means even without nearly perma stabi a Weaver barely can be lock downed.

I am all with you if you wanted to reduce stunbreaks along with stuns in the game. I also agree ele has a very specific defense - evades. Other classes have blocks, stealth, blinds, offering more counterplay (dodges still have some, but few indeed. Ground stun fields and stuff, shocking aura).

But if you nerf it now, you will hurt many other weaver specs as well. That is why changes should focus on the problematic builds, not skills every other specs use too.

But let's have a more specific look at it: What exactly would you like to see ToF change into? Just getting rid of the evade, together with a CD reduction? Or block instead of evade?

(I still think decreasing the CD of Primordial Stance was completely random and noone ever asked for this. Anet could revert this, since you mention lots of stability. But this is not the core question here I think?)

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bravan.3876 said:

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@bravan.3876 said:(...)

Rofl you rly try to talk gold to kitten here... When used first the cd is already running, means when used right after another you can use the next one 5 secs after the first, then after 30 secs (because 10 secs cds from the main recharge are already gone) you can use another one (if you use it that way), then you have the first time 40 secs cd on the next use. That is something completely different and way better than what you try to make it (40secs cd for one normal dodge). The only thing i am not sure of is, if it is called an ammo skill or not, because it has no visible recharge line like Mantras have for each charge but it is far away from being only one dodge with 40 secs cd. And if you then just time them when you get hard-cced these cds outrun every normal builds cc cooldowns. Means even without nearly perma stabi a Weaver barely can be lock downed.

Either remove the stunbreak or the dodge, i don't even mind which one, but because Weaver has nearly perma stabi anyway keeping the dodge with the current animation Ele mains would prefer i guess. Or you make it a stunbreak with a combofinisher that has the current dodge (the whirling around) animation, to compensate for the defense loss from less dodges (that is what i would prefer on the first view).