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Druid question

Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 7, 2020 in Ranger

If druid healing spec is ineffective, shouldn't it get a buff?

I heard only skill number 3 on celestial avatar was useful which is the one where you blind folks, is this correct? or am I missing something?

And if so, how is this good for druid spec?

Edited to ensure that the wording is correct of spelling errors grammatical errors.

Here is my list of characters i got so far:

Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.


  • Is this a PvP question? Druid is quite ineffective there, but remains a solid pick in may PvE areas. The issue with buffing it is the potential for it to return to being the singular choice for healing in fractal/raid groups. Anet has been working to make several equal-ish options for healing and support, so now druid is one choice among many. Now we're to the point that different support classes are freely swapped in experienced PvE settings to fit the exact situation. Personally, even as a ranger main 99% of the time, I support this strategy. Only having one class that's acceptable for healing makes the game boring and excludes people that would like to play other classes.
    As for CA skill 3, it's an AoE daze, which is certainly quite useful in some situations.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is a PVP related question yes.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020

    I have seen the post you mentioned and I agree. Druid has less healing / dispells / support (defensive buffs / aura) options, is slower, has more resctrictions than other support / healing specs.

    Weapons :
    Well there is staff. And that’s all. Most of the CA generation comes from healing yourself and damaging enemies. Way less from supporting allies. Spells design is fine for the most part but this is the only healing source.
    Warhorn is ok for buffs.

    Utilities without CA + talents :
    Almost no condi clear. + no damage mitigation.
    Guard never worked as a damage mitigation tool because it kills the pet and is even worst with pet stat reduction. Same for stone spirit.
    Protect me while beeing aoe stunbreack is better for yourself.
    Glyph of alignment has a good weakening effects for ennemies but if you use it you do not have the healing / dispell aspect...
    If you look at guards and ele they have way more healing / support utilities (even if you only look at fb or tempest and not core) when druid has to be in CA to get some "true support spells".

    Utilities with CA :
    Even if you had them they would be so weak compared to other profession spells.
    Compare glyph of rejuvenation to medic gyro (spell + toolbelt) / wash away the pain / fb healing mantra. They all give better healing (if you add ally + yourself) + support options
    Compare Glyph of alignment to : fb mantra, , overload water, tempest other damage mitigation (protection) purge gyro or bulwark gyro damage reduction.

    With CA :
    This is were most of the healing comes from. Buuuuutttt if you compare it to any other healer you quickly see the issues.
    Auto => It has a long range but is small, hard to land, barely heals people hit (they take more damage than you heal) and barely heals you.
    Compare to the aiming of : fb tomes auto
    2 => Slow, same healing as the auto. Does barely cure condition by itself. Dispell is “almost guaranteed” only if you combo with 3. The blind, while strong forces you or your ally to position the enemy and wait.
    Compare to other damage mitigation tools : fb dispels and buffs, purge gyro or bulwark gyro damage reduction, tempest .
    3 => the OP skill. Long range, good aoe, daze, combo blast, quick to use. Just wow.
    4 => same healing as autos but more reliable. A moving combo field is an interesting and strong concept. Buuuut…. With the cd you can only use it once, it makes you go in more dangerous areas (cleave) and you are channeling thus locked into it.
    Compare to static field : Geyser (ele) is stronger and safer (range), shining river allows fb to double heal (aoe + other spells),
    Compare to moving field : medic gyro.
    Edit : I did put water overloads in moving fields which was wrong!
    5 => A strong skill. Stab and a lot of annoying effects for enemies. Has it’s drawbacks (being locked into place) making it quite fair imo. (not for healing anyway)

    CA Design :
    There is the cooldown and the energy you need to build, the loss on downstate. Quite a lot of restrictions actually. But some made sense. At least 3 years ago. If you look at CA skills history a few things are striking if you look at the healing numbers (2016 + 2018).

    Evolution of druid from my Pov:
    When druid came out I loved it because you had more support options (lingering light, glyph of empowerment, shorter cd) making it also a decent healer/buffer for allies. It was also more tanky with cleric amulet.

    2016 : Huge base healing reduction and huge increase in healing power contribution. Ranger was healing a lot without any investment and they had to change it.
    2016 : Increase of CA from 10-15. Quite a big change. But it was aimed at nerfing the use of the traits druidic clarity and celestial shadow so it was still “ok”
    Those were adjustements and 2 builds were raising. 1 as a sidenoder and 1 as a rez bot with stealth and search and rescue.

    2018 : Increase of CA from 15-20 : the beginning of the end if you ask me. Made it way harder to heal allies because now almost all ca spells have “hidden cd” of 20s.
    2018 : Honestly I still do not know what happened there. Massive healing nerf and rework of lingering light. Before it would allow allies you heal to heal on their next strike + blind enemies. I liked this because it was an additional support tool.
    Complete removal of druid as a healing option. Not only was it already impossible to be a healer vs PoF specs (I do not know how many times more damage holo was dealing than you can heal but it still does more, scourge was nullifying the heal and killing you if you walked anywhere close to your allies) but you had less healing.
    Edit : Removed the comparison with Sage scourge which was unfair from me. Scourge did provide less healing and utilities but could offer a good mixt of offense / defense for their team.

    2019 : Celestial being : pet are weaker. I was against it. But believe or not now I am in favor of this change. You still make your pet survive and deal less damage which was part of the frustration when fighting druids. I just wish this change would be in favor of more support options…
    Edit 2 : I did have an idea of a spec were the pet would become a ghost when using some spells and have special aoes/effect around him so I hope they will add things to make the pet do something for the druid.
    2019 : removal of glyph of empowerment which was giving allies a damage boost if you were not in ca (healing boost otherwise).

    Edit : Now I am waiting for the big patch they teased and hoping for a druid rework. I am still thinking about PvE too. Any big change in one mode is going to impact the other. Druid is strong in PvE group content because:

    • People are stacked
    • It gives 10 man buffs (also because stacked + spirits)
    • Does have decent healing (people are not moving or movement is easy to predict + druid is not targeted)
    • Does have lots of cc

    What I find interesting is that the talents chosen in PvE are so different from the ones in PvP and the reasons it is a strong choice in PvE are the same it is bad as a support in PvP (outside of cc)

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2020

    @Aaron Forestman.4758 said:
    The issue with buffing it is the potential for it to return to being the singular choice for healing in fractal/raid groups. Anet has been working to make several equal-ish options for healing and support, so now druid is one choice among many.

    That is quite true. Was it why they reduced healing >30%? I do not remember anet giving any justification at the time so I checked the patch note once more and none was given. It is true that they were also played in fractals.
    Other specs have changed a lot but druid has been quite static. I just hope it will be less selfish in PvP and have faster options.

  • I've been off for a while (2 years) and just got back into PvP. Druid seemed okay during the match placement rounds, but now that I've played 30 -40 matches, I can safely say it is not horrible, but it's also not really that good. It is around a 4 out of 10. The healing feels about 50% under-powered, regardless of how much you put into healing power. Druid is a fraction of what it used to be on the healing side. I ended up switching to condi-soulbeast and seem to be having a better time.

    The main problem is the healing is not powerful enough.
    The secondary problem is the support is really lackluster. Long cool downs, diminished condi cleanse, etc
    The tertiary problem is the personal survival skills are not able to compete with the standard damage output and CC from other classes.

    It's not horrible, its just not competitive at the moment. I think it was nerfed to encourage us to switch to the new spec. So... switch to the new spec.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Well Anet deliberately destroyed druid presence in pvp and wvw as a support. Sadly, when it first came out, Druid was my no:1 profession for zerg support. Even then it was not groundbreaking yet it was good. Staff being a mediocre weapon for tagging yet staff 3-5 were really useful and staff 2 could be used for tagging or good CA force building. Still it was somehow marginal to use a druid as a zerg healer yet it was passable with good game play.

    Now, after all these changes druid is not even close to a proper support in competitive. Even ventari rev is better at some areas than a druid healer. With so many cc in the game, so many conditions and millions of boons, druid needs a heavy rework to be considered "ok". I would even be ok if they removed the pets altogether while using druid. And to be honest, cleric druid was a horrible thing to fight against back in the day. But the support-heal part needs addressing. I always thought that CA shoul've been a permanent state like soulbeasts merged form. But that is my opinion only.