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How do you feel about the imminent balance patch, and why?

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  • UnDeadFun.5824UnDeadFun.5824 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020
    I'm teeming with dread

    I'm sure it will short term shake things up and then creep back to the same old play styles. Much of GW2 has gone full circle many times.

  • Etterwyn.5263Etterwyn.5263 Member ✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    So at least one other person sat through Antichrist, I gather? Whew... I actually watched that and Dogtooth as a double feature one weekend. I haven't been right in the head since. :#

    WvW™ - where you find more Red Rings of Death than an Xbox repair facility.

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @memausz.7264
    One shot Core ele,

    A build like that does not exist. If you lose to core ele it’s you that is the problem

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How do you feel about the imminent balance patch, and why?

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Dunno man. You guys are hyping this thing, but did not give us any info to indicate how is this patch any big. This rarely ends up well.

    Cmc mentioned on the WvW stream today. 800-900 objects have been changed so far. Just with the splits.

    Quantity over quality. Looks like basic issues like class stacking or one sited matchups aren't even considered as a problem.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I haven't seen any patch notes yet, so, I can't tell.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • I feel massive dread.

    I see something like an overall 50% damage reduction coming - and weaver even more. Ignoring for example that weaver is almost a pariah now. Thanks to revenenants and their instant cast masssive hammer damage COMBINED with massive boon output.

  • Abraxxus.8971Abraxxus.8971 Member ✭✭✭

    Who knows, but whatever happens pvp will still be a mess due to low population, afk'ers, leavers, and the players who just don't really care anymore.

    Bring back Ceara

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The volume of changes they hint at is the OPPOSITE of what they need to be doing

    And what exactly should they be doing, according to you?

    Its well known in the dev profession that small frequent changes work and large broad changes actually indicate an immature development pipeline.

    An example of good practice would be to initially split all skills for pve and pve but keep both pve and pvp skills identical for that first drop. Patch that out first to live, test the split In Isolation without having to firefight new balance issues and lay the bones for quick future changes while getting past the heavy lifting.

    2 weeks later patch in a small set of skill changes - low risk now, the heavy lifting has already been done, just tweaking numbers.

    Same 2 weeks later

    ..

    As things mature go to 1 week patches

    And so on for ever with a model where you can react quickly. And incrementally clean up issues without the big bang high risk mess.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    The only fear for me personally is massive changes to the game overall which originate in the competitive modes (Spvp and WvW) to spill into PvE and make classes less fun to play.

    The toning down of power creep overall might be a good idea, but that automatically leads to certain content getting harder (say fractals, raids, instanced content overall). Raids, especially wing 1-4, have been the easiest they have ever been, yet the communities are dwindling (might not be challenge related) and players keep complaining about being unable to complete them.

    I love WvW. Have gained over 2k ranks in less than a year. Love the game mode since DAoC and Warhammer Online. Still I personally believe that PvE is carrying this game financially. That doesn't mean everything needs to be sacrificed on the PvE altar, but when the 1 lone pvp guy in the back of the room dictates the balance changes, something might go boom.

    I don't think balance overall is even the issue in spvp. If one follows the forums for an extended period of time, the one thing that becomes evident is:

    • there will always be whiners,
    • there will always be players who dislike certain classes from the bottom of their heart,
    • there will always be players defending their completely overpowered classes state.

    What I personally think is: the competitive modes, Spvp especially, need expanding upon with new and more game modes starting at the very core of player count in games. 5v5 is completely out of place when you have 9 classes with 2 elite specs each. Some classes are bound to not find play.

    Something similar goes for WvW, expand player choice and/or give players the tools they need to expand themselves. Make GvGs a thing or allow WvW players to work within a system to easier organize GvGs for example. Obviously WvW needs some work on population distribution as well. Tons of things can and need to be be done outside of balance changes which would go a long way to help competitive game modes

    TL;DR:
    really hoping the rework and re-balance will result in a healthy game experience for all game modes.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @Laera Myrith.7605 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Do we have a rough ETA? preferably more specific than Q1.
    Thanks in advance

    We don't have an announced date yet. But it won't be during this current season.

    So we're looking at sometime after February 25th?

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020
    There's a what?

    @vluhdalt.2715 said:
    So we're looking at sometime after February 25th?

    Maybe somewhere in late March, together with Episode 2.

  • I tend to be the eternal optimist much to the chagrin of most people who have to deal with me on a daily basis. I can see why Anet wouldn't possibly be able to test a patch that size with any accuracy. Reason being is we are players will almost always break something. Meaning, we will do something unintended or find a loophole someplace in the changes. Its the nature of how we operate. Personally i'd love to find that something shifts so much that the meta has to change or that new builds are developed. We've also as a community been asking for change for so long I'm sure it will take some time to "catch up" to some degree. My rating: Cautiously optimistic.

    Guild leader for Goats of Thunder. No pants allowed.

  • @Mogwai.4015 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I feel massive dread.

    I see something like an overall 50% damage reduction coming - and weaver even more. Ignoring for example that weaver is almost a pariah now. Thanks to revenenants and their instant cast masssive hammer damage COMBINED with massive boon output.

    Instant cast massive hammer damage? Is this a Vengeful Hammers complaint, or are you just that unfamiliar with Revenant to think that the hammer is anywhere close to instant cast?

    you can get two high damage skills off in the time it needs to cast one meteor shower. And alsmost finished a third one. What was your point again?

    I played rev. Rev is easy class.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020
    I'm teeming with dread

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The volume of changes they hint at is the OPPOSITE of what they need to be doing

    And what exactly should they be doing, according to you?

    Somehow me knowing exactly what they should be doing is an indication of knowing what they shouldn't be? Some bad logic right there.

    Judging by your tone, you believe that introducing so many changes at the same time is the correct path? Tell me, what makes you think that's going to work for them THIS TIME, considering in all the balance patches in the past, they demonstrate they struggle to achieve with the few changes they make? Didn't I just read they made HUNDREDS of changes in splits? Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me you think I'm wrong? I guess you REALLY want me to come back and call you out after the patch or something?

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    The volume of changes they hint at is the OPPOSITE of what they need to be doing

    And what exactly should they be doing, according to you?

    I dunno ... why do you think it's relevant to make this into an argument?

    Hardly making it an argument though you are free to assume my tone as much as you want. I asked the question because I want to know what you think they should be doing instead of what hey have planned. Otherwise its just a sweeping statement without a lot of substance. i.e I want to know more about your opinion besides "this is wrong".

    Somehow me knowing exactly what they should be doing is an indication of knowing what they shouldn't be? Some bad logic right there..snip..I guess you REALLY want me to come back and call you out after the patch or something?

    No, it means what's you take on it. Absolutely no need to be so aggressive when I am just asking you for more detail on you opinion..

  • Kaburro.4712Kaburro.4712 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    The biggest change is that they have a balance team specifically for spvp now.
    They didn't have one for years.

    Too late I must say. But that is only my opinion.

  • Hot Boy.7138Hot Boy.7138 Member ✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    i have an off meta playstyle. I haven't seen anyone else play like me. But often times my build receives collateral damage during balance patches. so i'm a bit worried. but whatever anet does, i will find a way to make my playstyle work.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The only fear for me personally is massive changes to the game overall which originate in the competitive modes (Spvp and WvW) to spill into PvE and make classes less fun to play.

    The toning down of power creep overall might be a good idea, but that automatically leads to certain content getting harder (say fractals, raids, instanced content overall). Raids, especially wing 1-4, have been the easiest they have ever been, yet the communities are dwindling (might not be challenge related) and players keep complaining about being unable to complete them.

    I love WvW. Have gained over 2k ranks in less than a year. Love the game mode since DAoC and Warhammer Online. Still I personally believe that PvE is carrying this game financially. That doesn't mean everything needs to be sacrificed on the PvE altar, but when the 1 lone pvp guy in the back of the room dictates the balance changes, something might go boom.

    I don't think balance overall is even the issue in spvp. If one follows the forums for an extended period of time, the one thing that becomes evident is:

    • there will always be whiners,
    • there will always be players who dislike certain classes from the bottom of their heart,
    • there will always be players defending their completely overpowered classes state.

    What I personally think is: the competitive modes, Spvp especially, need expanding upon with new and more game modes starting at the very core of player count in games. 5v5 is completely out of place when you have 9 classes with 2 elite specs each. Some classes are bound to not find play.

    Something similar goes for WvW, expand player choice and/or give players the tools they need to expand themselves. Make GvGs a thing or allow WvW players to work within a system to easier organize GvGs for example. Obviously WvW needs some work on population distribution as well. Tons of things can and need to be be done outside of balance changes which would go a long way to help competitive game modes

    TL;DR:
    really hoping the rework and re-balance will result in a healthy game experience for all game modes.

    Just to point it out, its already been said that many of the changes are splits between the modes. This is something that has sorely been needed as PvE has bled into WvW/sPvP far too much and the power creep has very much hurt the PvP.

  • Eurantien.4632Eurantien.4632 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

    He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.

    Reviewed but not necessarily changed.

    He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?

    How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.

    Typing up the notes itself isn't the problem. For the splits alone, the list is finished. We're discussing how to present the notes a digestible way and in a way that makes it easier on us to follow feedback conversations.

    HIT US LIKE A TIDAL WAVE

    and then lock the forums for 24 hours.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    fix chrono

  • Poelala.2830Poelala.2830 Member ✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @RlyOsim.2497 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    fix chrono

    Delete Mesmer

  • Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited May 7, 2020
    There's a what?

    xxxxxxxxxx

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    The only fear for me personally is massive changes to the game overall which originate in the competitive modes (Spvp and WvW) to spill into PvE and make classes less fun to play.

    The toning down of power creep overall might be a good idea, but that automatically leads to certain content getting harder (say fractals, raids, instanced content overall). Raids, especially wing 1-4, have been the easiest they have ever been, yet the communities are dwindling (might not be challenge related) and players keep complaining about being unable to complete them.

    I love WvW. Have gained over 2k ranks in less than a year. Love the game mode since DAoC and Warhammer Online. Still I personally believe that PvE is carrying this game financially. That doesn't mean everything needs to be sacrificed on the PvE altar, but when the 1 lone pvp guy in the back of the room dictates the balance changes, something might go boom.

    I don't think balance overall is even the issue in spvp. If one follows the forums for an extended period of time, the one thing that becomes evident is:

    • there will always be whiners,
    • there will always be players who dislike certain classes from the bottom of their heart,
    • there will always be players defending their completely overpowered classes state.

    What I personally think is: the competitive modes, Spvp especially, need expanding upon with new and more game modes starting at the very core of player count in games. 5v5 is completely out of place when you have 9 classes with 2 elite specs each. Some classes are bound to not find play.

    Something similar goes for WvW, expand player choice and/or give players the tools they need to expand themselves. Make GvGs a thing or allow WvW players to work within a system to easier organize GvGs for example. Obviously WvW needs some work on population distribution as well. Tons of things can and need to be be done outside of balance changes which would go a long way to help competitive game modes

    TL;DR:
    really hoping the rework and re-balance will result in a healthy game experience for all game modes.

    Just to point it out, its already been said that many of the changes are splits between the modes. This is something that has sorely been needed as PvE has bled into WvW/sPvP far too much and the power creep has very much hurt the PvP.

    I'm not worried about the split skills. I'm worried about the reworks (see chrono for example). Yes, the power creep overall has been quite hard on competitive modes.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020
    There's a what?

    @Flandre.2870 said:
    Trash, just like always.
    The last patch that was actually put up by this cmc guy was worst patch in history of pof. game is ufnun.

    PvP has not been fun since PoF released.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Very hopeful

    @Jimbru.6014 said:
    Whatever happens, TINY still be TINY. http://tinyarmy.org :)

    Awesome video. Good job.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020
    I'm teeming with dread

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    I feel massive dread.

    I see something like an overall 50% damage reduction coming - and weaver even more. Ignoring for example that weaver is almost a pariah now. Thanks to revenenants and their instant cast masssive hammer damage COMBINED with massive boon output.

    I am awaiting nerfs to revenants, heralds from what i saw seem insane with mobility and dmg combined with cc.

    The amount of stuff they can throw out in weakness easily in 1 burst is pretty insane weakness blind poison immob in a few seconds plus massive burst jesus thats nuts.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't mind either way but everyone should properly adjust expectations.

    This is a patch to adjust the power level down.

    This is not:
    A buff your slightly underwhelming spec into the meta.
    Going to make your class dominant again.
    Giving you a new role.
    Making a useless skill viable again.
    Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour.

    There will be things missed, interactions unforeseen and some winners and some losers but I'm going to enjoy seeing everyone realise how poorly they really play after years of easy mode power creep.

  • Fearless.3569Fearless.3569 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020
    There's a what?

    No balance patch will make PvP fun. If you have players AFKing, Wintrading, and botting with impunity. The game could have the most balanced PvP environment in gaming. But if the things that I've mentioned are allowed by the devs. Than PvP will be trash tier at best.

  • @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Dunno man. You guys are hyping this thing, but did not give us any info to indicate how is this patch any big. This rarely ends up well.

    Cmc mentioned on the WvW stream today. 800-900 objects have been changed so far. Just with the splits.

    I know this is the PvP forum, and I know you're mostly tasked with competitive balance. But do you have any idea how many and if any changes are aimed at PvE in this patch? The hardcore PvE scene is starting to really grind on people's nerves with the little changes going on lately along with the current meta being extremely stale and uninteresting in terms of class diversity. The quickness issue specifically has gotten way out of hand.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poelala.2830 said:

    @Selminus.1490 said:

    It's a result of countless people crying on the forums about losing to other players or being ineffective in PvE based on their lack of understanding and/or skill sooooo enjoy the fruits of their labor. Don't believe me? Open the PvP forums. 9 out of 10 posts are asking for nerfs, it's pathetic and exclusive to North American millenials.

    The purpose of a business is to make money and science proves people are more likely to repeat profitable behavior, so understanding this making customers happiest is the primary goal. If everyone wanted all utility skills to be gone the smart thing for an*t to do is to delete all utility skills.

    Why don't we just hire every loudmouth on the forums to develop for us, then, huh? I mean obviously they not only know what they want but what everyone else wants, too! There's no chance they don't succeed where professional game developers have failed! No chance at all!

  • edited January 11, 2020
    I'm teeming with dread

    "The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. "

    So it's going to be a total "Izzy screw up" then?

  • I'm teeming with dread

    As my forum avatar suggests, my main is (more like was) a Scourge. I hear a "forthcoming balance" announcement as "We're dropping some bombs on PvP and WvW, and sorry PvE folks, but there will be random collateral damage."

  • dagger dave.5201dagger dave.5201 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020
    Very hopeful

    Ive quit for about a year because I hate how the balance has been and how uninteresting builds have been for me.

    So I'm hoping that this massive update will be enough to make the game fun and less just mindless spamming of buttons.

    I'll be coming back to try the changes, let's hope it makes pvp and wvw more fun. I'd like to enjoy this game again.

  • mrauls.6519mrauls.6519 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020
    Very hopeful

    Please do not buff scrapper

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    It will probably play out like every other balance patch since launch. Anet has a proven track record of not being able to balance the game. I'm not getting my hopes up on them finally getting it right.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ipomoea Jalapa.6897 said:
    As my forum avatar suggests, my main is (more like was) a Scourge. I hear a "forthcoming balance" announcement as "We're dropping some bombs on PvP and WvW, and sorry PvE folks, but there will be random collateral damage."

    Difference is NPCs don't complain and their health can be toned down to compensate for reductions in power level.

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I hope there will be chaos.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    I'm teeming with dread

    Core Engineer 2019. It was constantly weakened to balance the two Elite Specializations. I fear they continued this strategy in that upcoming balance patch.

    In addition, credo quod ArcDPS interdictum debere.
  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ipomoea Jalapa.6897 said:
    As my forum avatar suggests, my main is (more like was) a Scourge. I hear a "forthcoming balance" announcement as "We're dropping some bombs on PvP and WvW, and sorry PvE folks, but there will be random collateral damage."

    The mentioned splits, which means they are splitting skills again, this is a good thing and makes me happy. Someday i hope my staff will be used again on my ele in open world :(

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Very hopeful

    old game
    now we go new thing

  • Kalan.9705Kalan.9705 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020

    Upside
    Shake up is good, even with short term chaos. No new elites, very little in way of new specs or new content has made GW2 get stale. Recent balance efforts have been profoundly unambitious (& frequently failed at meeting their stated aims). So a proper shake up is essential to get things moving again. Go BIG or go home.

    Downside
    Unfortunately if they're still trying to do it without splitting most skills in PvP apart from most WvW skills - it's doomed to fail and annoy both sides, who have deeply incompatible needs. I just don't think this message has sunk in for Anet.

    Anet just can't get past their mental blockage that labelling PvP and WvW as competitive modes makes them are somehow similar, when right at their core basics:- gear, buffs, numbers on each side, even how many sides there are, WvW & PvP are essentially different games.

    Yes it is more work to properly split pvp and wvw - it is also more work to put all 4 wheels on to your car rather than just putting 3 wheels on, but sometimes half-arsing it is just no option at all.

  • Very hopeful

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I'd prefer Bunker over another condition burst meta.

    But then people would get sick of bunker and so it goes on.
    Like, all things should be viable. In an optimal world, Meta's wouldn't be the be all end all choice.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • Very hopeful

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @bluri.2653 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    You keep talking about the size being really big but how big is it compared to a pretty normal balance pass like this?

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

    He did say every skill and trait has been reviewed. Should give some idea about scope and size.

    Reviewed but not necessarily changed.

    He said the amount of changes will be hard to even put out on a note. Does that explain it better?

    How is writing patch notes hard? You just type them. If I was typing patch notes instead of my own post I'd be doing it right now. Think about that.

    What if it is because there are also mechanical changes to things that may be harder to explain but easier to show?

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • Very hopeful

    @SPESHAL.9106 said:

    @Ben Phongluangtham.1065 said:
    It's going to be somewhat chaotic for a while. And I'm sure there will be overlooked things or unintentional problems. The number of changes is so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict. Our goal is to be able to respond relatively quickly to issues that come up. And there will probably need to be a decent size follow-up release to continue to refine. Balance is a long term commitment, not a one release solution.

    Nice attempt at spin already. PoF has been out for years now. Why are "the number of changes so large that all possible interactions are impossible to predict"? What have all the other balance patches been? Are you admitting that they were all failures? What can't you internally test and predict at this point with PoF??? Is it a staffing issue or a competency issue?

    If it's a staffing issue, just take more time. It's better to get things right than look foolish and not catch things players catch immediately.

    If it's a competency issue, release the patch notes prior to going live and get some feedback.

    The reason you're in this boat to begin with is that you released patches without internally testing stuff and predicting the interactions. If you are ALREADY admitting that will be the case with this balance patch, you've failed from the start.

    Nobody could take your internal testing seriously before when you released fewer changes that had to be hotfixed. Many of those things that had to be hotfixed could have been identified in 10 minutes of internal testing or 1 button push. Some changes weren't enough and classes went a full year and counting being OP. Now you're already admitting similar issues with this patch? WOW...forgive the pun...cuz that's the game I'm playing now (classic) because you guys failed so miserably.

    Thanks for the warning at least.

    1. If you change so many things at once, there are bound to be unforeseen repercussions. You can only predict so many behaviors a change may have, players are really who discover some of the most ridiculous things, sometimes by accident just because each mind works different. It's like when they did the Rune changes and suddenly a class was too strong because of certain traits, etc.
    2. It's not that previous balance changes were failures. Balance is not a stagnant thing that can permanently be correct, especially when new things or slight changes can make drastic results. The previous balance change was not a failure as any that came before it, it is simply that those changes are no longer the changes that are needed in the game anymore and they believe these new changes may better work for the community.
    3. They were understaffed for a while because of the mystery other projects, but even so, there will ALWAYS be things players discover that the Devs do not.

    Founder of Affinitus Nemus [AFNM]
    "Join Us, We're Lonely" - Our Guild At Some Point

    JUST LIKE THE LORAX, WE SPEAK FOR THE TREES!

  • trixantea.1230trixantea.1230 Member ✭✭✭
    There's a what?

    What patch? Where is it? What does it say??
    This is an unprofessional way to make polls and ask about players opinion :/

  • I will be always excited to discover a new patch, especially big ones. Experimenting, testing new stuff is really what I love in games, before playing in a "balanced" or ideal "meta" in competitive.

    What I personnally would like to see (but not probable) :

    • An overall reduced powercreep, so that player can more interract beetwen them, but not reach a "bunker" meta (it's really hard actually).
    • Amulets are remplaced by "characteristics points" you can spend, so that you can presonnalize your stats and pick whatever you want.
    • Some new skills that may fullfill some builds (elite signs, elite warcry for the warrior for example, elite traps).
    • Some twist in some skill that really need more reliability (I.E, skills that can be easily missed with basics movement from the ennemy player, without him actually wanting to dodge it).

    What I think it is going to happen :

    • Arenanet would keep the powercreep state of the game, and somewhat powercreep it more, especially a mechanic that haven't been powercreeped since the launch of the game : dodge rolls. Players have always been limited to 2 maximum dodges roll with a 10 seconds recovering time. It may be buffed to something like 3 max dodge rolls, with a 7,5 sec recovering time, so that players can dodge more things in this bursty meta. Eventually, character would react much faster after a dodge roll (because there is a slight amount of time after dodge roll where your character do not act, but is vulnerable), or the dodge window is extended to 1 second (from 0,75 sec).
    • Since it is said that A LOT OF THINGS is going to be changed, I hardly see what are they going to do.

    What I would be sad to see happen :

    • A simple huge twist in most skills and trait, that will just, in the best case, allow more viable builds, and in the worst case, just change the playable builds.
    • An even more powercreep buff.
  • There's a what?

    The balance patch will be welcomed. They always make things interesting. Please make Druid usable again? Yes? I like to heal. At the moment, there is really only one playstyle in PvP. Throw everything into damage and invulnerability and kill your opponent in 5s or get killed in 4s (unless someone uses invulnerability).

  • @Poelala.2830 said:

    @memausz.7264
    One shot Core ele,

    A build like that does not exist. If you lose to core ele it’s you that is the problem

    Ask and you shall recieve. https://twitch.tv/infinitemath/clip/FitSlickPicklesHumbleLife?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

    ~ God Tier Guardian