MAJOR Info 1/9/2020 stream — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure if specific warclaw changes were mentioned? The pounce still does "free" damage to three people and isn't available to new players.
    Also keep buffs, utility buffs, food buffs, etc didn't seem to be mentioned. If traits are changed, stats make more impact.

    Surprised Irenio streamed with dagger on scourge, I don't think even PvE players run mainhand dagger.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not sure if specific warclaw changes were mentioned? The pounce still does "free" damage to three people and isn't available to new players.
    Also keep buffs, utility buffs, food buffs, etc didn't seem to be mentioned. If traits are changed, stats make more impact.

    Surprised Irenio streamed with dagger on scourge, I don't think even PvE players run mainhand dagger.

    Why would they? There is nothing wrong with the keep/food or utility buffs. And trait's changing making stats have more impact is nonsense.

  • Calisanna.8732Calisanna.8732 Member ✭✭✭

    glad changes are coming. I could have fallen asleep during this stream though. Not sure if they were focusing on the comments leading to lack of action, or if they were just on yet another dead timezone/server. I couldn’t fully watch it and skipped ahead often. I thank you for posting the time code with the important info. I can only watch so much running around in a tower.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Calisanna.8732 said:
    glad changes are coming. I could have fallen asleep during this stream though. Not sure if they were focusing on the comments leading to lack of action, or if they were just on yet another dead timezone/server. I couldn’t fully watch it and skipped ahead often. I thank you for posting the time code with the important info. I can only watch so much running around in a tower.

    I would like to see them stream pvp matches some time instead of this wvw every time where they can spend long periods actually not in combat and not doing anything. It would be nice to see them do some combat with small scaled battles but meh...

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Would someone be a pal and post a TL;DR for those of use who can't watch something atm?

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not sure if specific warclaw changes were mentioned? The pounce still does "free" damage to three people and isn't available to new players.
    Also keep buffs, utility buffs, food buffs, etc didn't seem to be mentioned. If traits are changed, stats make more impact.

    Surprised Irenio streamed with dagger on scourge, I don't think even PvE players run mainhand dagger.

    Why would they? There is nothing wrong with the keep/food or utility buffs. And trait's changing making stats have more impact is nonsense.

    They have stated in the past they are looking at high damage and high sustain across the board as well as warclaw. If a keep buff gives you +200 defensive (toughness, vitality) and +200 offensive (power precision) stats it gives the defending group a huge stat advantage which is compounded by traits that are multiplicative.

    There's a very large difference between 2400 power typical in PvP vs 3000+ power , especially against players without toughness that sit around 2000-2100ish armor level. The tooltip ingame is standardized as a non-crit vs 2600 armor level before multipliers such as sigils or traits.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    Would someone be a pal and post a TL;DR for those of use who can't watch something atm?

    I will try to watch it again and catch everything, but the gist is 800+ object changes (each buff/nerf or skill functionality change counts as an "object" even if it isn't a skill change but a WvW split). If you look at the API for a skill or trait the damage , radius, and range all have different field sections.

    One thing that was mentioned in the past is skills that do too many things at once (i.e. CrowdControl + high damage simultaneously). In this one they mentioned that the patch won't happen this PvP season and there isn't a definitive date ; they want to make as many builds viable as possible. If someone makes a build that "can 1v5" they will try to address it ASAP. Some mention of chrono, they said "we will see what the viability is with the major shakeup coming".
    Irenio hops and jumps while on tower wall, gets yanked and instakilled ("should not have jumped, bad habits"). Then proceeds to feed people the Conquer the Creator achievement by jumping into middle of a blob vs blob fight.

    Mention of 15v15 deathmatch that is supposed to be implemented in PvP. I'm guessing this is for the people that want to do organized GvG with the PvP skill balance rather than WvW balance.

    Segways into comments on commanders' preference for "super tanky, don't wanna get smacked builds". "Will try to evening things out" and bring down the top end of tankiness and damage. "Damage and healing reductions" , "if you want to name some type of thing there's probably a reduction".

    Small improvements "that add up" with respect to server performance/skill lag. Lots of sidegrades, "buffed in one aspect but nerfed in another aspect" and "hones in what is the intended use of the ability". Cooldowns are being looked at. "Sustain, evades, mobility" also looked at : not just damage. Near end of stream : projectile hate supposedly will be looked at "but it's no small task". Tricky piece of balance due to sheer quantity of projectiles and it's (reflects/absorbs) "binary because it works or doesn't work at all" , "doing partials is an option" (no idea what Irenio means).

    Mention of how the stream is occurring before EU prime which is why "there's no commanders" and "standing on the tower wall is the pinnacle of the stream".

    They stated that there will be buffs and nerfs at the same time and the meta will be chaotic the first week. Readjustment will happen based on overperforming things.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not sure if specific warclaw changes were mentioned? The pounce still does "free" damage to three people and isn't available to new players.
    Also keep buffs, utility buffs, food buffs, etc didn't seem to be mentioned. If traits are changed, stats make more impact.

    Surprised Irenio streamed with dagger on scourge, I don't think even PvE players run mainhand dagger.

    Why would they? There is nothing wrong with the keep/food or utility buffs. And trait's changing making stats have more impact is nonsense.

    They have stated in the past they are looking at high damage and high sustain across the board as well as warclaw. If a keep buff gives you +200 defensive (toughness, vitality) and +200 offensive (power precision) stats it gives the defending group a huge stat advantage which is compounded by traits that are multiplicative.

    There's a very large difference between 2400 power typical in PvP vs 3000+ power , especially against players without toughness that sit around 2000-2100ish armor level. The tooltip ingame is standardized as a non-crit vs 2600 armor level before multipliers such as sigils or traits.

    And both sides have access to the same food, the same buffs.

    Even in the case your talking about, if everyone prior to patch has 4000 power with buffs, and that drops to 3000 power with buffs, it’s still the same buffs.

    The purpose of the patch is to increase TTK, and that’s exactly what is going to happen.

  • I can only imagine the chaos this patch will cause. I hope they are quick to make changes after they get testing feedback.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Rune of the Scholar, this has been changed; all stats have been removed, equipping 6 gives you a fluffy pink aura.

    On a more serious note, my confidence level is at an all time low, so I really hope they are awake while doing this.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Mogwai.4015Mogwai.4015 Member ✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I'm not sure if specific warclaw changes were mentioned? The pounce still does "free" damage to three people and isn't available to new players.
    Also keep buffs, utility buffs, food buffs, etc didn't seem to be mentioned. If traits are changed, stats make more impact.

    Surprised Irenio streamed with dagger on scourge, I don't think even PvE players run mainhand dagger.

    Why would they? There is nothing wrong with the keep/food or utility buffs. And trait's changing making stats have more impact is nonsense.

    They have stated in the past they are looking at high damage and high sustain across the board as well as warclaw. If a keep buff gives you +200 defensive (toughness, vitality) and +200 offensive (power precision) stats it gives the defending group a huge stat advantage which is compounded by traits that are multiplicative.

    There's a very large difference between 2400 power typical in PvP vs 3000+ power , especially against players without toughness that sit around 2000-2100ish armor level. The tooltip ingame is standardized as a non-crit vs 2600 armor level before multipliers such as sigils or traits.

    @Zexanima.7851 said:
    Would someone be a pal and post a TL;DR for those of use who can't watch something atm?

    I will try to watch it again and catch everything, but the gist is 800+ object changes (each buff/nerf or skill functionality change counts as an "object" even if it isn't a skill change but a WvW split). If you look at the API for a skill or trait the damage , radius, and range all have different field sections.

    One thing that was mentioned in the past is skills that do too many things at once (i.e. CrowdControl + high damage simultaneously). In this one they mentioned that the patch won't happen this PvP season and there isn't a definitive date ; they want to make as many builds viable as possible. If someone makes a build that "can 1v5" they will try to address it ASAP. Some mention of chrono, they said "we will see what the viability is with the major shakeup coming".
    Irenio hops and jumps while on tower wall, gets yanked and instakilled ("should not have jumped, bad habits"). Then proceeds to feed people the Conquer the Creator achievement by jumping into middle of a blob vs blob fight.

    Mention of 15v15 deathmatch that is supposed to be implemented in PvP. I'm guessing this is for the people that want to do organized GvG with the PvP skill balance rather than WvW balance.

    Segways into comments on commanders' preference for "super tanky, don't wanna get smacked builds". "Will try to evening things out" and bring down the top end of tankiness and damage. "Damage and healing reductions" , "if you want to name some type of thing there's probably a reduction".

    Small improvements "that add up" with respect to server performance/skill lag. Lots of sidegrades, "buffed in one aspect but nerfed in another aspect" and "hones in what is the intended use of the ability". Cooldowns are being looked at. "Sustain, evades, mobility" also looked at : not just damage. Near end of stream : projectile hate supposedly will be looked at "but it's no small task". Tricky piece of balance due to sheer quantity of projectiles and it's (reflects/absorbs) "binary because it works or doesn't work at all" , "doing partials is an option" (no idea what Irenio means).

    Mention of how the stream is occurring before EU prime which is why "there's no commanders" and "standing on the tower wall is the pinnacle of the stream".

    They stated that there will be buffs and nerfs at the same time and the meta will be chaotic the first week. Readjustment will happen based on overperforming things.

    Thanks for the summary, very helpful <3.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    The purpose of the patch is to increase TTK, and that’s exactly what is going to happen.

    Pretty sure it was the opposite. To bring the power level back to closer to pre-hot, when you actually fought linger than 1-10 seconds.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
    “The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Readjustment will happen based on overperforming things.

    Except we know they wont.

    I can pretty much guarantee you that we will see plenty of "kitten??!!" changes where builds that basicly do not exist or is played by like 1 out of 100 players in WvW gets nerfed to the ground.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • @joneirikb.7506 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    The purpose of the patch is to increase TTK, and that’s exactly what is going to happen.

    Pretty sure it was the opposite. To bring the power level back to closer to pre-hot, when you actually fought linger than 1-10 seconds.

    TTK = time to kill. I said they are INCREASING time to kill. That means combat will last longer.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Low TTK isn't implicitly a problem, but rather low TTK coming from builds with high survivability, too. And how a lot of the survivability is really low-interaction coming from stuff like boons/effects/invulns.

    Like if you wanted to play D/D glass thief or GS berserker shatter mesmer in core game you still one-shotted people (one person every 30-40 seconds). But it's a glass cannon with no utility or disengage and poor durability. Its burst is visually clear (thief has to get into melee, land the CnD from non-stealth, and backstab will follow the CnD within 3 seconds, usually on 1.5) and has poor follow-up given D/D having bad mobility, or if not mobility, no condi cleanse or endurance refunding.

    Burst builds are good for larger-scale encounters because they are the answers to builds with Area of Denial damage effects like traditionally your glass ele, hammer rev, and wellomancer/scourge as well as taking out priority tactical targets. Disrupting leadership is considered good tactics, and the best groups will have people who understand the battlefield able to take over seamlessly when the primary commander dies.

    Just dropping TTK isn't a good thing - you end up with stuff like BoonBeast and condi trapper thief which just whittles people down using superior mobility/defenses until the opposition runs out of resources and eventually dies. There's very little interaction occurring here; instead of punishing someone's misplay or making a really aggressive move, it leverages wins by stealing agency from the opposing player, which is really not good practice at making a product people will want to return to.

    What ANet's been doing is adding too many damage tools to builds universally or with ones which really didn't need it, and where what were once small disparities like food buffs are now an even better piece of the balance, considering stuff like T7 food is better than the benefits of having multiple traits combined, rather than a small stat bump.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @joneirikb.7506 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    The purpose of the patch is to increase TTK, and that’s exactly what is going to happen.

    Pretty sure it was the opposite. To bring the power level back to closer to pre-hot, when you actually fought linger than 1-10 seconds.

    TTK = time to kill. I said they are INCREASING time to kill. That means combat will last longer.

    My bad, I read it and my brain farted out something else. You're right.

    Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
    “Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
    “The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Low TTK isn't implicitly a problem, but rather low TTK coming from builds with high survivability, too. And how a lot of the survivability is really low-interaction coming from stuff like boons/effects/invulns.

    Like if you wanted to play D/D glass thief or GS berserker shatter mesmer in core game you still one-shotted people (one person every 30-40 seconds). But it's a glass cannon with no utility or disengage and poor durability. Its burst is visually clear (thief has to get into melee, land the CnD from non-stealth, and backstab will follow the CnD within 3 seconds, usually on 1.5) and has poor follow-up given D/D having bad mobility, or if not mobility, no condi cleanse or endurance refunding.

    Burst builds are good for larger-scale encounters because they are the answers to builds with Area of Denial damage effects like traditionally your glass ele, hammer rev, and wellomancer/scourge as well as taking out priority tactical targets. Disrupting leadership is considered good tactics, and the best groups will have people who understand the battlefield able to take over seamlessly when the primary commander dies.

    Just dropping TTK isn't a good thing - you end up with stuff like BoonBeast and condi trapper thief which just whittles people down using superior mobility/defenses until the opposition runs out of resources and eventually dies. There's very little interaction occurring here; instead of punishing someone's misplay or making a really aggressive move, it leverages wins by stealing agency from the opposing player, which is really not good practice at making a product people will want to return to.

    What ANet's been doing is adding too many damage tools to builds universally or with ones which really didn't need it, and where what were once small disparities like food buffs are now an even better piece of the balance, considering stuff like T7 food is better than the benefits of having multiple traits combined, rather than a small stat bump.

    Well, thats why they also want to lower boon application and heal, ppl always forget that those are also part of the powercreep, not just damage.

    Right now you CAN heal someone from 1% to 100% in a second, but only theoretical, because right now you have no 1% because you go from 100 to zero in a second.