[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate

TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited January 10, 2020 in WvW

A number of threads overtime have covered changes to downstate and there have been a number of variations on them. Forums are a limited sampling of the player base but can be used as a directional pointer. Tried to cover a range of opinions from various threads over time but if I missed an option please specify (plus you can only have 10 polling options).

Edit: this poll was for a change to WvW, not Pve or PvP per say.

Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

[POLL] Your Thoughts on Downstate 123 votes

Leave downstate as is
30% 38 votes
No downstate
30% 38 votes
Only downstate for out-numbered
3% 4 votes
No Rally, but downstate
14% 18 votes
Downstate, no revive of defeated
0% 1 vote
No downstate, no revive of defeated
3% 4 votes
No rally, downstate, but no revive of defeated
4% 5 votes
Leave downstate, but adjust downstate health and/or abilities
5% 7 votes
More no downstate events, leave as is outside of that
4% 5 votes
Downstate, but stomped defeated can't be revived
2% 3 votes
<1

Comments

  • subversiontwo.7501subversiontwo.7501 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    Too much to pick from. Went with "no rally but downstate". In general, or historically, downstate has been fine and is an aspect of the core gameplay of this game. No downstate means no cooperatively saving friends. However, I don't like the fact that it is muddled by abilities and coefficients left right and center. The core aspect of pressing F on a friend to res them (coupled with the risk of giving cleaving opportunities) is good and has majorly been positive throughout the years. Whatever issues perceived have mostly stemmed from MI's, banners, mercys and the like. The basic F's more interactive and balanced.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Agree there are a lot of options, but I think in general it's not a two sided option either, hence why I covered so many since there have been a lot of variation out there over time. I would generalize that the group that would like changes are more likely to also like the no downstate weeks, but I could be wrong there.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    I'd almost chose no rally, downstate, no revive but no rally with downstate still having revive is fair in a game where performance hiccups can regularly rob you of an otherwise good play.

    I like what downstate adds to the game but I'd rather not have unique skills that aren't very comparable to each other and would rather have a slow downed crawl and would like to have pull skills work on friendly downed players at a more regulated but reasonable speed.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I think my main complaint about the revive of the defeated is that it favors larger numbers and removes that important decision of the player to say, do I keep fighting or get an ally up since they will be out of the fight till they get back from spawn. With revive they can choose not to decide and if their side wins then they can get their ally up at no cost to their side. One thing that stops some people from attacking a larger force is knowing that their actions won't dwindle their numbers. With no revive of defeated if you can drop a target its at least out of the fight. And I say this coming from a havoc perspective where losing numbers would hurt even more but if you know your group can drop some you might be more willing to take a shot at it. But that could be me, have know players that will always attack and others that will never want to die.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    Downstate and reviving from downstate is a relict from a time when no dedicated healers in this game existed to be able to support your team members.

    The combination of healers and downstate is favoring the bigger group in a matchup to an inacceptable extent.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

  • Hynax.9536Hynax.9536 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone have the same downed skills (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed).
    Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if he goes down again, he is dead.
    I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die.
    For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive.

  • sneakytails.5629sneakytails.5629 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020

    Downstate is trash, remove it, all of it.

    Too many fights are won by it when those players had no business pulling out a win. Players who dont dodge, use clears, use heals, etc.

    Lame.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hynax.9536 said:
    I would leave downstate as it is for PvE and rethink how it works in competitive modes like reworking downstate skills so that in competitive modes everyone can only have those actions (cus yeah, some professions can be really anoying even downed).
    Also more rigid rules for how many times you can recover from downed : right now you can revive up to 3 times and only get insta defeated on the 4th down, maybe change this to only let players be revived once and get full downed penalty (for 1 min) so that if it goes down again, it is dead.
    I'm not against revive on defeated players cus it takes time even when you got the max amount of players reviving someone, it may look fast but in the middle of a zerg fight any second standing is enough to die.
    For Rally i would change it to heal a great amount of the downed health (~33% of the bar) instead of insta revive.

    That's a good point which I did not state and may need to edit. I was polling and picturing this just for WvW. Pve and PvP would not be impacted.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

    Or they know how much of one It can be

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped.

    That said, as I've said before - no rally is an acceptable compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th).

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

    Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheGrimm.5624 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Defeated should be able to be revived after a zerg vs. zerg clash.

    I want to point out that thus far it looks a lot like "No Rally" is more important to people than "No Downstate."

    One of the reasons I was interested in a poll since I think the people that are in favor of no change mostly group everyone else into no downstate but I don't think it's that clear cut. But also curious on the numbers for no change as well.

    Well, IMHOFWIW, downstate should be removed. Doing so keeps large groups from roflstomping through smaller groups. The smaller group would have the chance to spike parts of the large group down and overcome them with skill where as right now the larger group is overwhelmingly favored because of how strong downstate itself is as a mechanic.

    I can see "No Rally" working, but only if there is "No Revive" as well. You'll need to bandage yourself up.

    Downing someone and making that thing they have to deal with helps me dismantle larger groups and squads. Large groups stomp smaller groups who play like they're a large group and crash right into stuff, that's on them, not revive mechanic.

    Well you're DE'ing it out. Downing one guy and waiting for someone to start healing them so that you can pop a stealth attack on them makes sense for you.

    Pulls and interrupts are better there than stealth.

    True, but a chance to insta down another is worth taking as well. But then this assumes that teammate would rez their partner though. I don't, I give them a chance to rally off a death instead, and if the opponent goes to stomp I nuke them.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Waaaaaaay too many options to be a "pointer" for anything. Also no downstaters on the forum have a tendancy to screetch the highest about the injustice of how they got stomped.

    That said, as I've said before - no rally is an acceptable compromise as the loss of that rather pushes for more focus on ressing and stomping. Adjusting the downed penalty would also be good as the 60s timer is way to short for a WvW slugfest and I personally still think they could remove one stage and start at 50% hp (ie insta-downed on the third down instead of 4th).

    Based on the spread so far I fear that fewer options would hide some nuinances, and we might do a later poll based on how this turns out. But it is a lot of choices, but even so I think I missed some mixes people have presented here on the sub-forum.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Downstate is fine, and there are too many skills and abilities related to it.

    Rallying is kinda dumb though. If you both fight in a third party's tower, you can actually rally off a killed tower lord even if the other side kills it.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Ya people who want “no downstate” are usually scrubs who don’t know how to use downstate to their advantage....

    Or they know how much of one It can be

    There are distinct tactics that can be used with downstate, but is that wasted unless you win the fight? One side being able to fully repopulate itself at the spot of the fight was delayed but nothing more as they continue from that point forward. Now this is more a push for no revive of defeated mind you, which would work with or without downstate.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lots of options leaves it too open to get any serious focused solution. Well I suppose 1 or 2 might pop forward idk.

    Despite all these options I didn't see the one I think would have been a legit conpromise,

    Nothing downed state mechanics changed wildly just some numbers adjusted,

    7 sec? duration cap and then auto dead
    No more 3x hp boost
    1 downed state per minute?

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    I bet for a hybrid system from gw1 and gw2.

    Use skills to Rez downed ally, no more stack and rub to Rez either.

    Fully dead or stomped.. must port, maybe some class having 1 long cd hard Rez skill like rebirth.

    Rez signets could be back with the miracle system.

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, my main concern is downstate being used as a way to easily get HP back. For WvW specifically I'd like to see rallies gone, and the speed of reviving downed slowed (particularly for multiple revivers). Ideally, downstate should be something you only come back from if you stop taking damage.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    @Ben K.6238 said:
    Personally, my main concern is downstate being used as a way to easily get HP back. For WvW specifically I'd like to see rallies gone, and the speed of reviving downed slowed (particularly for multiple revivers). Ideally, downstate should be something you only come back from if you stop taking damage.

    Indeed rally from enemie in pvp needs to go.

    On pve it can stay...

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Downstate is stupid and favors wrong side of the fight, so no downstate.

  • Fearless.3569Fearless.3569 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Downstate is stupid and favors wrong side of the fight, so no downstate.

    What this guy said. Too many times I've been in WvW with my group of friends. We make huge play again a blob that 2 or 3 times our numbers. Only for than to be save by the rally mechanic. The rally mechanic highly favors and support omni-blobs. You can down 10 of them off a great play. But they just mass kill one of you and all your work is erased.

    It provides me with the same feeling when I'm in PvP and a kitten decides to afk at the start of the match. It makes me not want to play either game modes because kitten like that completely overturn all my hard work and plays. The game mode becomes pointless to play unless you have even numbers. But due to transfers is never that case.

    So my vote is no downstate or rally. You should pay for your mistakes. Not be saved from them just because you have more numbers!

  • ilMasa.2546ilMasa.2546 Member ✭✭
    edited January 10, 2020

    How about downstate as a trait?
    Every professions has atleast one trash trait noone gets,ever.Maybe its a dumb idea but i can see people have to choose it over something else,so its a trade.Plus imo it adds a sort of surprise element in encounters?! I dont know was just an idea i got.

    But ofc must be a significant trade:if you pick the downstate u miss something of HUGE value?!
    I mean with downstate u have a good chance to avoid getting punished for a mistake or a missplay so could be a fair trade for a glasscannon guy while on a zerg build its a waste if u miss something that gives you/your party more benefits?!

    Dunno maybe its just a dumb idea ahah , i voted no btw but i can still see it being "intresting" if implemented in a different way

    EDIT:
    INB4 ANET puts out a TWISTED Version of this and people wants my head: NOT WvW TRAITS but PROFESSION TRAITS.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fearless.3569 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    What this guy said. Too many times I've been in WvW with my group of friends. We make huge play again a blob that 2 or 3 times our numbers. Only for than to be save by the rally mechanic. The rally mechanic highly favors and support omni-blobs. You can down 10 of them off a great play. But they just mass kill one of you and all your work is erased.

    Maybe my understanding of the rally mechanic in WvW is wrong, but one death produces one rally. So, the 10 couldn’t rally off one of you.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rally

    Maybe this isn’t working but the multi player rally from one death hasn’t been a thing for years.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Syrus.2174Syrus.2174 Member ✭✭✭

    With quick stomps, stealth stomps, stomp gizmos, stomping from far away and all that other stomp magic, downstates are often useless in small scale fights anyway nowadays.
    At the same time rallying is also a major problem at times, you just downed someone and just because some ally or even just a guard died the enemy gets up again while you were trying to finish them off. And doesn't it always go the way that the enemy revives everyone and anyone downed and always ten times faster than anyone on your side revives downed?

    Even playing Ele, I feel like something needs to be changed, and no downed state or at least no rally would be interesting.
    Or maybe downed state that is equal for all classes health and defense wise?
    We do need a reduction in overall damage and in the ability to insta-/one-hit-kill someone before that happens.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No rally, but if you are successfully revived all conditions on you are cleansed. Second drop into downstate is a death.
    Oftentimes players that are revived from downstate are still in a position where they're immediately placed back into downstate, being loaded up with conditions whilst in downstate is a big contributing factor.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Downstate needs to go.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Oshi.9324Oshi.9324 Member ✭✭

    Personaly i only want to remove warclaw stop

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fearless.3569 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Downstate is stupid and favors wrong side of the fight, so no downstate.

    What this guy said. Too many times I've been in WvW with my group of friends. We make huge play again a blob that 2 or 3 times our numbers. Only for than to be save by the rally mechanic. The rally mechanic highly favors and support omni-blobs. You can down 10 of them off a great play. But they just mass kill one of you and all your work is erased.

    It provides me with the same feeling when I'm in PvP and a kitten decides to afk at the start of the match. It makes me not want to play either game modes because kitten like that completely overturn all my hard work and plays. The game mode becomes pointless to play unless you have even numbers. But due to transfers is never that case.

    So my vote is no downstate or rally. You should pay for your mistakes. Not be saved from them just because you have more numbers!

    Yeah lets not understand the game. Only 1 can rally off 1 kill and I bet your great play is buff up stealth jump the blob down 10 then because you jumped 35 you con't finish so you leave. Next time have a couple puglys behind you count to 10 and follow your stealth bomb and warclaw finish um then you all can run off and talk how skilled you are. That's what I do for the 8 man group on my server if I see them. Again I fight off bigger group because of warclaw stomp. When the 50 man zerg attacks the 25 man group they aren't hanging back with warclaws they will just roll you but when 25 attack 50 it's better a few hang on warclaw to finish them off. It works especially well vs guild group that depend so much on each others synergy when you stomp 2 they fall apart. Downstate need to be changed where we all got the same skills. 1 att 1 innterupt 1 tele 900 rng type thing 1 heal slowly. Some classes are just op to others.

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    Until they remove one shots and stealth, leave it alone.

  • @sneakytails.5629 said:
    Players who dont doge


    I just had to again.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @sneakytails.5629 said:
    Players who dont doge


    I just had to again.

    lol, um, don't make me google that image, curse you!

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The prior changes to rally, IMO, were good ones. Leveling in WvW was rough since uplevels were easy targets and rally-bots were a thing translating to people asking uplevels to leave the maps since one good rally many which made little sense. Asking people to leave also wan't healthy for the population. That said wasn't expecting so many for the no-rally options. To all that have participated so far, thank you. Will be interesting to see where this stand comes Monday.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    Downstate is fine. It adds another layer of complexity to the game which is good. You should know how to approach a downed opponent. With the crazy dmg right now it is almost necessary. Fights are done in seconds and at least it provides some prolongation and option to come back after the initial burst.
    Balancing some of the downed and rez abilities would be in order though.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Roaming far more than I used to, I have to say I enjoy downstate a lot more than I would have imagined. Gettings downs in a fight is neat, then it becomes a game of whether they ress rush or not and if you have used your skills to stop them already. I love bringing my Battle Standard to finish them off in time, feels super satisfying.

    And there is the problem. If you don't have a quick execute it can feel pretty bad. Getting stomps off is difficult, obviously there are means like casting stabs to not get interrupted, but it feels pretty bland. Using a skill instead of an interact feels much better and adds more gameplay imo, which is why I would love if more classes got access to (single) targeted finishers that have a cooldown so they can't be abused.

    And yes, people do that on their Warclaws, running away to mount and come back for a stomp, but that's really boring too.

    I rather choose death.

  • Jaruselka.5943Jaruselka.5943 Member ✭✭✭

    First of all down state skills are wildly uneven between classes. Some are amazing (like being able to mist form to safety) while others a worthless (pull your enemy closer while you are dying?). Secondly it truly favors the larger group. For these two reasons alone it should be removed.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020

    @sneakytails.5629 said:
    Downstate is trash, remove it, all of it.

    Too many fights are won by it when those players had no business pulling out a win. Players who dont dodge, use clears, use heals, etc.

    Lame.

    +1

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2020

    sorry, but "no downstate at all" even as option, are u freaking insane? that just promotes snipes and boosts classes that can dish out the most dmg in the shortest time - and make things easier for them as it is yet; we had full roamerfights only if that would come to work, absolute garbage idea. you cannot do that in a format with stealth and tons of oneshot options.
    we talk about wvw, not pvp, keep that in mind.

    if anything, downstate is rarely really useful. you barely down when things run good, and if ur downed, the extremly common condispam kills u rather fast anyways. it makes no sense to cry about it, sounds a bit like scrubs wanting more cheap kills.

    i'm okay with full dead beeing unreviveable, it would often be more efficient anyways if they were not lying around but respawning.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

    i'm okay with full dead beeing unreviveable, it would often be more efficient anyways if they were not lying around but respawning.

    Just like we have a no downstate week, would love to try this for a week.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    I'll be okay if downstate only occurs in controlled territory.

    If yu die in enemy territory, skip downstate and instantly finish.

    This will stop those large servers from harassing defenders and camping their spawn or gives a home-field advantage to defenders, especially when they are low on players.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I'll be okay if downstate only occurs in controlled territory.

    If yu die in enemy territory, skip downstate and instantly finish.

    This will stop those large servers from harassing defenders and camping their spawn or gives a home-field advantage to defenders, especially when they are low on players.

    I have to admit, this is one that I do not remember seeing posted before. That's an interesting spin.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Casual game mechanic for casual game mode.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    Casual game mechanic for casual game mode.

    Everything about video games is casual. You were too eager to be edgy you forgot downstate is in pretty much every game mode.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL]

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With the crazy amount of damage that can happen in wvw, downstate and rally are needed, but they could be tweaked.

    I want downstate to stay just so finishers are still a thing, even though mount stomps have basically killed that off, but I tend to get a little bit more joy finishing someone with a finisher than the stomp, even though most of my finishers tend to be stolen by drive by stomps these days... In any case I also think downstate should be generalized for all classes, same health and skills, but at the end of the day makes no difference since mount stomps instant kills dominates the way to finish anyways. They really should just auto pop your finisher on a stomp at this point.

    Rally one to one I think is fine, the crazy ten can rally off one was not, and fortunately that hasn't been a thing for years now. I do think maybe res speed of downstate should be less multiplicative per person, and perhaps even put a condition of either weakness or cripple on the rallied person for a couple seconds, maybe even less health on them after they get back up.

    ^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
    "There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther

  • TheGrimm.5624TheGrimm.5624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    With the crazy amount of damage that can happen in wvw, downstate and rally are needed, but they could be tweaked.

    I want downstate to stay just so finishers are still a thing, even though mount stomps have basically killed that off, but I tend to get a little bit more joy finishing someone with a finisher than the stomp, even though most of my finishers tend to be stolen by drive by stomps these days... In any case I also think downstate should be generalized for all classes, same health and skills, but at the end of the day makes no difference since mount stomps instant kills dominates the way to finish anyways. They really should just auto pop your finisher on a stomp at this point.

    Rally one to one I think is fine, the crazy ten can rally off one was not, and fortunately that hasn't been a thing for years now. I do think maybe res speed of downstate should be less multiplicative per person, and perhaps even put a condition of either weakness or cripple on the rallied person for a couple seconds, maybe even less health on them after they get back up.

    Due to finishers alone I don't think they would completely drop downstate personally. And agree spiking adds in an extra element to the fight that does stand out in GW2 combat. That said I could see them changing downstate, downed, and defeated up some. Balance patch itself might address some of that.

    Envy the Madman his musing when Death comes to make fools of us all.
    De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
    TheGrimm PoTBS/GW1/WAR/Rift/GW2/MWO/ESO/WoT/WoW/D2/HoTS/Civ6/CU/AoC