Ranger: king of interupt ( Balance ideas and suggestions for anet) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Ranger: king of interupt ( Balance ideas and suggestions for anet)

CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭
edited January 18, 2020 in Ranger

First of all im big fan of this game and play it from original guild wars which is definitly best game i ever played. Guild wars 2 combat system have amazing potential to be even better than original game. The problem is lack of interupt soft-cc gameplay because even if ranger have this playstyle he mastered in original game the current state of game won t make it happen.
I will use example of guild wars 1 pvp team build which name was BALANCED WAY. Name of the team build setup says it all and build actually survived all meta shifts and have stayed in line with everything new. The reason i talk about this is because of interupt playstyle which makes game skillful and not spamming fest. So the balanced team in their midline had 2 interupt playstyle proffesions and they are mesmer and ranger. Having these 2 proffesions in team build allowed to shutdown any important skills in given situations and use interupts as defense and offense. While it can seem op from someone who never played original game thats far from true because everyone was able to fake cast skills and counter even fast interupt gameplay with knowledge of how things work. What i think is problem with Gw2 is actually lack of soft-cc interupt gameplay and idea is to make that playstyle valuable and when that is done game will be in great term of balance. To do that things like boonspam, powercreep, too many hard cc and map issues (where only classes with ports will have big advantage and don t allow new roamers to be viable), need big shift and even map balance since teleports are good and skillfull actions but map design pushes that idea too far and kills potential diversity of builds.
So the soft-cc meta shift is actually idea to make 1/4s daze with low cd valuable, instead of just hard cc spam we have today which is not meant to interupt anything in most scenarios and is used and spammed just for shutdown. If all things such as powercreep and boonspam is set on line (nerfed hard especially stab and quickness uptime) where picking just control interupting playstyle build actually means something, than the game will have much more depth like Gw1. To make it clear one more time soft-cc is actually daze 1/4 sec cast time on low cd and hard-cc are all others types of cc we have today making the game feel this way. All of the hard-cc should be balanced the way so everyclass shouldn t have way of picking and having more than 1 hard cc in build on higher cd. When we get to that level, being able to interupt every 5 sec with 1/4s daze won t be a problem since enemie can fake cast and stability will still be there but as RARE as hard cc .

Each proffesion should have unique hard-cc so (i will give few examples ) : ranger will have taunt (for helping teamates when focused and also chase potential)
mesmer will have stun (for locking down targets)
engineer will have launch for decaps
warrior will have knockdown for seting bursts
revenant will have knock back

Now after intro which i think is neccessary for further discussion to clear it up, i will go on some ideas of where and how this kind of ranger should be implemented in this story.

So ranger along with mesmer will have best amount of soft-cc making them kings of interupt playstyle. Since mesmer already can play that style (not viable cus of things i said in intro discussion) but ranger can t even give it a try since longbow which is already better utility and dmg than shortbow, even have better cc. Making shortbow viable in this state of game where interupts (soft cc 1/4 daze) actually means something shouldn t be hard. I will give a shot on few changes to underperforming (few overperforming aswell to match concept i talked in intro) aspect of ranger which should become this interupt type of build which will just be another option for ppl who enjoy interupt playstyle rest won t change much

SHORTBOW: -crossfire and poison valley stays same
- quick shot stays same but make it actually kind of jump (so it actually doesn t fall and instead go up during the evade back) in addition so it can be used better as escape
tool and even reaching some places for example colloseum map jump from stairs on side to mid point
-crippling shot should stay same aswell
-concussion shot now have 2 counts and it now is unblockable daze 1/4 sec and have 20 sec count recharge

LONGBOW:- all skills except knock back stay the same
-point blank shot now have 2 counts and inflict cripple only while making clear animation with kind of kneel down and increase dmg 2x if target already have cripple

DAGGER:- instinctive engage keeps quickness mechanic and it acts as jump instead of falling down (same as shortbow 3 i listed above)
-crippling talon now bounces 3 times
- rest skills stay the same ( i even like dagger 2 since u can buff your pet on low recharge with 2 stacks of poison)

GREATSWORD:-counteraatack kick now taunts aoe instead of knockback for 1 sec and doesn t deal dmg (reduced block on counteratack so it blocks 2 sec)

SKRIMISHING:-sharpened edges now additionally activate lasser sharpening stone when u interupt a skill (same cd as original sharpening stone but 5 bleed stacks)
-trappers expertise: traps oh the traps kitten to do with that... this needs change but yea i don t wanna talk about that now
-light on your feet now in addition make ranger interupts (only if skill is interupted) remove 20 endurance from target (remove 10 vulnarbility stacks current trait version)

WILDERNESS SURVIVAL:-ambidexterity in addition to it effect now increase range of dagger leap atacks (same as prenerf on stalker strike and 200 range more on instinctive engage making
it 600 range)

PETS:-almost all pets need treatment to be more active usage. f2 skills which do hard cc should loose that ability and get replacment with shorter cd effects for example
-spiders (one of them need this treatment to make this work) active skill now daze for 1/4 (again only raw interupt) and its cd is 7 sec which alow you to play active and position your
pet (its 1/4 cast time since its projectile you need to be able to use it intentionaly to interupt to make it worth)

PET REVIVE on core and druid: f4 skill which is pet swap is disabled after your pet dies and is replaced with revive pet which cost 1 dodge bar (50 endurance), and after than u can swap pets in case your pet was dead and should also do same on soulbeast instead of reviving it with soulbeast mode. That will remove op rezz pet design of soulbeast and actually druid and core won t feel lame with squishier pets.

Comments

  • Sorry for bad english and alot of text if it feels like mess since im newbie to forum but veteran in game. Anyway i feel like ranger is all about pew pew build in few versions and im kind of bored to see same build and no diversity atleast not viable one. Please if you want to critize idea of lb 4 loosing knockback than take in mind tradoffs i writed in intro since all classes will loose most of cheese cc and make game more fun and depth based on timing (atleast in my head :)) !

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭

    I very much like the idea of this but some of the changes sound somewhat power crept like aoe taunt on gs. That's a bit overkill. But everything else seems ok. Also like the idea of stealing endurance.. interesting.

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    Thanks man what do you think about pet revive costing ranger to sacrifice 1 dodge as f4 pet swap gets replaced with revive pet costing 50 endurance ?
    Yes maybe thats mistake with counteratack kick you are right about that.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    I like the idea that Ranger gets access to interrupt style like Mesmers has, maybe with other interrupt rewards for example instead applying weakness to targets it resets some pet cds for a small amount or boonbuffs Ranger and teammates (but i would like my pet suggestion to be done before that, means that passive pet skills have no hard cc and no big dmg anymore and are more focused on utility and support tools, at max a short daze from 1 sec on passives skills).

    I also think the game doesn't need to have that much less counters to interrupts and that much less stabi uptime to make it work tbh. As i already explained for Mesmer interrupt, the reasons that it is barely played, is not because you have too less opportunity for meaningful interrupts, the reason is, that Powermes in general is not the best pick even on less hard to play builds. And in casual GW2 meta is not always something that is strong but always what is strong but also the most easiest/ braindead out of all strong options. The moment Mesmer had a broken interrupt trait like old CI during more broken and less active options were nerfed, the amount of counters too interrupt in general in the game wasn't too high to bring it into meta (still not on Powermes but on condi). I never played GW1 but i am sure it was way different to GW2 and trying to turn GW2 more into GW1 should not be the goal, instead adapt to the different game mechanics from GW2. If GW2 would be a slower paced game with remarkable less counters to interrupts then it would get oppressive pretty fast in this game. If you even want to change map designs and teleports and such things i have to say no, that is not needed. Nerfing the booncreep and add more skill ceiling to other classes builds will make active and skillful interuptstyle stronger and a more viable pick already. If the playstyle itself will be too easy to play, so every noob can do it, it will get annoying and broken as hell pretty fast (no matter what class).

    I will not go into your rework details from Ranger skills and traits because i think it will be more likeable and a better way to just create a new elite spec based on and balanced around interrupts for Ranger, instead reworking Coreranger in a way that interrupt style becomes an option for all Ranger specs (considering their current strengths and mechanics) without being op.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    @bravan.3876 said:
    I like the idea that Ranger gets access to interrupt style like Mesmers has, maybe with other interrupt rewards for example instead applying weakness to targets it resets some pet cds for a small amount or boonbuffs Ranger and teammates (but i would like my pet suggestion to be done before that, means that passive pet skills have no hard cc and no big dmg anymore and are more focused on utility and support tools, at max a short daze from 1 sec on passives skills).

    I also think the game doesn't need to have that much less counters to interrupts and that much less stabi uptime to make it work tbh. As i already explained for Mesmer interrupt, the reasons that it is barely played, is not because you have too less opportunity for meaningful interrupts, the reason is, that Powermes in general is not the best pick even on less hard to play builds. And in casual GW2 meta is not always something that is strong but always what is strong but also the most easiest/ braindead out of all strong options. The moment Mesmer had a broken interrupt trait like old CI during more broken and less active options were nerfed, the amount of counters too interrupt in general in the game wasn't too high to bring it into meta (still not on Powermes but on condi). I never played GW1 but i am sure it was way different to GW2 and trying to turn GW2 more into GW1 should not be the goal, instead adapt to the different game mechanics from GW2. If GW2 would be a slower paced game with remarkable less counters to interrupts then it would get oppressive pretty fast in this game. If you even want to change map designs and teleports and such things i have to say no, that is not needed. Nerfing the booncreep and add more skill ceiling to other classes builds will make active and skillful interuptstyle stronger and a more viable pick already. If the playstyle itself will be too easy to play, so every noob can do it, it will get annoying and broken as hell pretty fast (no matter what class).

    I will not go into your rework details from Ranger skills and traits because i think it will be more likeable and a better way to just create a new elite spec based on and balanced around interrupts for Ranger, instead reworking Coreranger in a way that interrupt style becomes an option for all Ranger specs (considering their current strengths and mechanics) without being op.

    I like idea of reducing cd on pet skills when you interupt, but the interupt playstyle often work best like some control light/medium condi pressure (so more rupt abilities less pressure). It can work with power pressure but on mesmer gs which is made for fast dmg output doesn t make much sense (since its better with hard-cc to land a spike). On mesmer i see it with staff and sword/pistol second set (geting buff for skill3 on staff giving it some utility cus right now its joke even on mirage and especially on core ) and mod with power block or ineptitude traited. So thats about mesmer, now question is do you think that giving some noob interupt bar which is actually now their main role and without actually interupting something their damage won t do much so it will make them half uselles. Thats actually opposite of your fear about this being abused from newbies because this kind of playstyle is actually good only on high skill players because you need to interupt important things to make it work. Since u didn t played gw1 ill quick explain u how interupts goes with player skill: 1. first someone spam random rupt barely interupting something and gets asskicked cus wasting too much interupts random. 2. second u learn to interupt using your reflex so the key is if ur interupt is 1/4 cast time than you need to interupt 3/4 cast time during cast (in meantime u know whats best targets to interupt) 3. third stage is pro one where its mix of first 2 and and first one is no longer called random and its actually called predict based on your knowledge of other classes rotation u can interupt 1/4 cast which would be imposible usually by just reflexes if ur interupt skills are also 1/4 cast time. So ye it won t be abused by noobs and good players will adapt anyway since they have resources to counterplay (fake cast, stability, quickness, los, block...).

    I agree with ranger pets loosing hard cc from passives if everything else in game is toned down but i think having active f2 for example spider as 1/4 daze interupt will make such intersting change on ranger cus of positioning and active pet usage of f2 ( 7 seconds cooldown) while not being broken cus it is just interupt. Ranger doesn t need another espec to make this because skirmishing traits i writed in disscusion, shortbow in general, most of pets are just used for meme and doesn t have defined role (may be fun for some but its not defined enough for condi ranger to be viable). So you just change few traits (Even most of traitline stays same even though its least used on ranger) pets and weps which are not used small rework and they are fine as new playstyle while still not hurting pew pew ranger and other stuff still stays same cus they don t use skirmishing (well maybe some of u do xD but quick draw will stay in case you use it for pew pew build). So there is really no need in making new espec since there is so much space in core mechanics which are not used or used just for meme because lack of defined role. I want to just bring this playstyle from guild wars 1 back since i really think its only real fix for spam fest we have now everything else is just hotfix to make it less toxic and still won t bring that amount of depth to game. So core version of ranger interupter looks like this you camp shortbow on offense slowly building bleeding while lesser sharpening stone pop every 20+ sec on interupting a skill, every ranger interupt of skill removes 20 endurance from interupted target. While u camp shortbow your job is to interupt key skills and apply some condi pressure which is built over time (because thats how you build bleed on shortbow already) and spider pet have another low cd f2 interupt so you must be aware of positioning of pet and get used to interupt with pet. Other set is just sword dagger for defense and mobility when focused. Uttility choice is up to you since you already have tools for defense and offense thanks to weapon sets and interupts which are used for both scenarios.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2020

    I didn't rly understand most of your first paragraph sry.
    What i meant with better make a new elite spec: It is true that lot of core stuff, in particular pets are unused and would give some room for reworks into interrupt style, my problem is, that i think that it has a reason we only have Mesmers and (in a weaker version) Thieves being able to interrupt in such strong form. Mesmers whole base mechanic on core already is build around either being high dmg oneshot burst or interrupt/ support utility bot with still good dmg but clearly less burst and no oneshot potential. Rangers and other classes have other focus in their mechanics and other strengths. If you give them viable interrupt options in addition it might would be too strong. I don't know how to describe that better but it is the same reason Warriors don't have stealth or teleports atm. If you want to add that to current Warriors they would be broken. But you can create another elite spec based on and balanced around having stealth and teleports on Warrior, it would be way weaker in some aspects the current Warrior specs are strong at, it would be a totally different Warrior. That is why i think reworking core Ranger that it has interrupt playstyle would need too much changes to the whole base mechanic of Ranger to not make it op. That is why i think an elite spec would be a better and probably more likely version, because Anet has less of work and effort with it. Also it seems Anets big plan is, to add other gameplay mechanics to classes only with elite specs (like Mantra was a Mesmer only thing before Firebrand spec came up).

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    @CroTiger.7819 said:

    ranger which should become this interupt type of build which will just be another option for ppl who enjoy interupt playstyle rest won t change much

    For frequent cc I think of thief and mesmer. Both are really frustrating to fight so I not sure if other players will like this. With gw2 design I find it hard to balance since players can couple cc with sustain or cc with damage.

    But everytime I look at ranger I feel like anet wanted ranger to have cc (either soft or hard) and be strong against soft cc (so many anti immob in our kit).

                         - quick shot stays same but make it actually kind of jump (so it actually doesn t fall and instead go up during the evade back) in addition so it can be used better as escape  tool and even reaching some places for example colloseum map jump from stairs on side to mid point
    

    I do not understand what you mean by falling down since it makes you jump backwards.

                          -concussion shot now have 2 counts and it now is unblockable daze 1/4 sec and have 20 sec count recharge
    

    I am against the idea of getting often unblockable cc. Rev, Ranger and thief can do it sometimes and this is super powerful. Having more is going to be toxic.

    LONGBOW:- all skills except knock back stay the same
    -point blank shot now have 2 counts and inflict cripple only while making clear animation with kind of kneel down and increase dmg 2x if target already have cripple

    We should keep the knockback if you want to add an animation where ranger stops moving. This already has a clear one that is easy to notice but I am not against making it longer if you want to add more effects.

                  -crippling talon now bounces 3 times
    

    Ok if it has a higher cd.

    GREATSWORD:-counteraatack kick now taunts aoe instead of knockback for 1 sec and doesn t deal dmg (reduced block on counteratack so it blocks 2 sec)

    I do not like taunt. It does not work well for ranger.

    SKRIMISHING:-sharpened edges now additionally activate lasser sharpening stone when u interupt a skill (same cd as original sharpening stone but 5 bleed stacks)

    I like this suggestion for PvP(with icd of course).

                          -light on your feet now in addition make ranger interupts (only if skill is interupted) remove 20 endurance from target (remove 10 vulnarbility stacks current trait version)
    

    That is interesting. And also super strong. Light on you feet is already great. I feel like this will be better on an unused trait. Maybe in Nature magic instead of the heal on F2. If we can have this, then unblockable cc should not be an easy thing to have (back to sb suggestion)
    Edit : I thought you wanted it to be a generic effect but it looks like you want to add it only to sb5.

          -spiders (one of them need this treatment to make this work) active skill now daze for 1/4 (again only raw interupt) and its cd is 7 sec which alow you to play active and position your   pet (its 1/4 cast time since its projectile you need to be able to use it intentionaly to interupt to make it worth)
    

    Since spider is range and autos have a weird effect I prefer the current immob.

    PET REVIVE on core and druid: f4 skill which is pet swap is disabled after your pet dies and is replaced with revive pet which cost 1 dodge bar (50 endurance), and after than u can swap pets in case your pet was dead and should also do same on soulbeast instead of reviving it with soulbeast mode. That will remove op rezz pet design of soulbeast and actually druid and core won t feel lame with squishier pets.

    It would hurt way too much imo. Core is fine and I think druid also is since the stat nerf.
    For slb I prefer having the pet regenerating %health over time when merged. This way you force slb to stay merged and you can have a trait based on merge duration instead of eternal bond.

  • CroTiger.7819CroTiger.7819 Member ✭✭
    edited January 14, 2020

    I agree about taunt on gs wont be good. Idea is to reduce number of cc in game by half and turn it into 1/4 daze meant for interupt playstyle so it reduce spaming overall in game. Hard cc-s will still be there but splited as unique profession mechanic. So for example ranger will have taunt as hard cc so it can utilize control mechanic and use it to chase and save teamates from focus. interupt on pet(spider) should be made with ranged pet with 1/4 cast time and made different colour of projectile with low dmg with interupt (1/4 daze same as sb 5 but not unblockable) cus its only way it can be handy to actually interupt (also very short cd to make active interaction with pet). Light on your feet is not op and its mess of an trait and maybe only usable in pve where everything is about numbers of dmg. This is more oriented on pvp so they can atleast split skill that way since its uselles in pvp and in same time with few other changes can bring totaly unique playstyle on the table for rangers. I don t see problems with unblockable 1/4 daze on 20 sec recharge with 2 counts its way more fun than 3 sec stun or 3 sec knockdown. I like your idea for Sb pet regen inside beastmode but for core and druid there must be option, thats why i think 50 endrurance is good tradeoff for letting your pet dye since 50% of them are just uselles and can t stay alive in pvp to reach pet swap.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2020

    Unblockable cc does hurt a lot because if you make it unblockable you already remove one (or 2) counter option (blocks / aegis).
    Just looking at how daredevil impact got high up with this is scary. Now the reason it could work on Ranger sb (at least right now) is because ranger condi / sb is far from being able to do the kind of damage thief does on his weapons.
    Light on your feet works with any kind of damage (including physical damage) making it really strong and underappreciated. The only reason I do not pick it is because I do not see a viable build with skirmishing.

  • @aymnad.9023 said:
    Unblockable cc does hurt a lot because if you make it unblockable you already remove one (or 2) counter option (blocks / aegis).
    Just looking at how daredevil impact got high up with this is scary. Now the reason it could work on Ranger sb (at least right now) is because ranger condi / sb is far from being able to do the kind of damage thief does on his weapons.
    Light on your feet works with any kind of damage (including physical damage) making it really strong and underappreciated. The only reason I do not pick it is because I do not see a viable build with skirmishing.

    Shortbow scale bad with power thats why i think its mess of a trait since it boost condi dmg and power and is related to shortbow which is all about condis. There is much more that can be done with shortbow trait than we currently have. Damage modifiers are not doing much good for this game thats why i think shortbow should offer different playstyle (interupt oriented) because ranger right now is all about pew pew. Since ranger don t have boon remove, having one unblockable interupt which deals bad damage and is short 1/4 daze wouldn t be op. If you play warrior it can interupt your shield thats true but you still have other defenses like evades and when ranger swap from shortbow to other weapon you can use your shield block safe. Yes ranger don t have good condi spikes on shortbow and its mostly based on building pressure over time (thats how condis should work) so interupts are there for utility. Right now light on your feet doesn t bring utility and shortbow cc is even worse than longbow knockback (smaller range and you can t push ppl from point for decaps) so in comparison longbow have better utility and damage (stealth, knockback and barrage which is not stoped by line of sight and it hits against projectile blocks while providing good aoe dmg) while shortbow offer nothing except weak condi pressure built over time without any utility. Just look at thief shortbow, it is used in condi and power variants because of its utility (mobility,cleave,blast finishers,cc) while ranger shortbow don t even work with condis because of bad design.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Shortbow scale bad with power thats why i think its mess of a trait since it boost condi dmg and power and is related to shortbow which is all about condis. There is much more that can be done with shortbow trait than we currently have. Damage modifiers are not doing much good for this game thats why i think shortbow should offer different playstyle (interupt oriented) because ranger right now is all about pew pew. Since ranger don t have boon remove, having one unblockable interupt which deals bad damage and is short 1/4 daze wouldn t be op. If you play warrior it can interupt your shield thats true but you still have other defenses like evades and when ranger swap from shortbow to other weapon you can use your shield block safe. Yes ranger don t have good condi spikes on shortbow and its mostly based on building pressure over time (thats how condis should work) so interupts are there for utility. Right now light on your feet doesn t bring utility and shortbow cc is even worse than longbow knockback (smaller range and you can t push ppl from point for decaps) so in comparison longbow have better utility and damage (stealth, knockback and barrage which is not stoped by line of sight and it hits against projectile blocks while providing good aoe dmg) while shortbow offer nothing except weak condi pressure built over time without any utility. Just look at thief shortbow, it is used in condi and power variants because of its utility (mobility,cleave,blast finishers,cc) while ranger shortbow don t even work with condis because of bad design.

    Anet tried to go with weapon traits not being weapon centric and I think this one is way more unique than just a few attribute bonus. It can work for your other weapon, maybe axe which can be hybrid.

    Sb as a utility weapon is already how I see it in pvp. 2 cc (1 soft, 1 hard), a source of poison, an evade so I like your idea be rewarded for the interrupt and the endurance loss which we do not have in the game (and making it only on 1 skill so it does not become too much). I am just not sure if this does not becomes too easy with unblockable.
    I tried to make sb work with a druid support mainly cc based but it was not that great.

  • @aymnad.9023 said:

    @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Shortbow scale bad with power thats why i think its mess of a trait since it boost condi dmg and power and is related to shortbow which is all about condis. There is much more that can be done with shortbow trait than we currently have. Damage modifiers are not doing much good for this game thats why i think shortbow should offer different playstyle (interupt oriented) because ranger right now is all about pew pew. Since ranger don t have boon remove, having one unblockable interupt which deals bad damage and is short 1/4 daze wouldn t be op. If you play warrior it can interupt your shield thats true but you still have other defenses like evades and when ranger swap from shortbow to other weapon you can use your shield block safe. Yes ranger don t have good condi spikes on shortbow and its mostly based on building pressure over time (thats how condis should work) so interupts are there for utility. Right now light on your feet doesn t bring utility and shortbow cc is even worse than longbow knockback (smaller range and you can t push ppl from point for decaps) so in comparison longbow have better utility and damage (stealth, knockback and barrage which is not stoped by line of sight and it hits against projectile blocks while providing good aoe dmg) while shortbow offer nothing except weak condi pressure built over time without any utility. Just look at thief shortbow, it is used in condi and power variants because of its utility (mobility,cleave,blast finishers,cc) while ranger shortbow don t even work with condis because of bad design.

    Anet tried to go with weapon traits not being weapon centric and I think this one is way more unique than just a few attribute bonus. It can work for your other weapon, maybe axe which can be hybrid.

    Sb as a utility weapon is already how I see it in pvp. 2 cc (1 soft, 1 hard), a source of poison, an evade so I like your idea be rewarded for the interrupt and the endurance loss which we do not have in the game (and making it only on 1 skill so it does not become too much). I am just not sure if this does not becomes too easy with unblockable.
    I tried to make sb work with a druid support mainly cc based but it was not that great.

    I get your point and im glad you got mine, we can t be 100% sure about unblockable but having concussion shot changed to soft cc instead of hard and than making it unblockable with 2 counts is much more intersting and seems like good tradeoff even if sb needs buff overall in current state (depends on upcoming balance if it will be too much since we don t know whats coming). Its good idea to have non weapon based traits but light on your feet is not in that state because its still weapon based (and it doesn t fit shortbow at all because its condi weapon and it should bring some utility instead of pure numbers of dmg which scale bad). On top of that ranger have alot of dmg modifiers and you will always pick marksmanship isntead of skirmishing or beastmastery if you play soulbeast, so i find light on your feet either a lack of imagination or clearly pve based trait to fit dmg spam. I tried alot of things to make condi ranger work over last 2 years and i found 1 build working (with few variations) and i will show video in this discussion with build very soon. It is totally different than other ranger builds and is unique style of play which help me to come with this idea about giving ranger back its glory of interupt playstyle. Build is using shortbow and sword/dagger with wilderness, beastmastery and soulbeast (if you are interested i can show you ingame before i make video and tutorial). It worked until plat 3 last season and problem there was teleports abuse from other classes and your teamates don t know that you are roamer so they left you with duels most of times. My skill is not the best aswell since im more interested in making new builds and i often loose alot of matches and ratings because of trying new things after few test games of unranked.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @CroTiger.7819 said:
    Shortbow scale bad with power thats why i think its mess of a trait since it boost condi dmg and power and is related to shortbow which is all about condis. There is much more that can be done with shortbow trait than we currently have. Damage modifiers are not doing much good for this game thats why i think shortbow should offer different playstyle (interupt oriented) because ranger right now is all about pew pew. Since ranger don t have boon remove, having one unblockable interupt which deals bad damage and is short 1/4 daze wouldn t be op. If you play warrior it can interupt your shield thats true but you still have other defenses like evades and when ranger swap from shortbow to other weapon you can use your shield block safe. Yes ranger don t have good condi spikes on shortbow and its mostly based on building pressure over time (thats how condis should work) so interupts are there for utility. Right now light on your feet doesn t bring utility and shortbow cc is even worse than longbow knockback (smaller range and you can t push ppl from point for decaps) so in comparison longbow have better utility and damage (stealth, knockback and barrage which is not stoped by line of sight and it hits against projectile blocks while providing good aoe dmg) while shortbow offer nothing except weak condi pressure built over time without any utility. Just look at thief shortbow, it is used in condi and power variants because of its utility (mobility,cleave,blast finishers,cc) while ranger shortbow don t even work with condis because of bad design.

    Anet tried to go with weapon traits not being weapon centric and I think this one is way more unique than just a few attribute bonus. It can work for your other weapon, maybe axe which can be hybrid.

    Sb as a utility weapon is already how I see it in pvp. 2 cc (1 soft, 1 hard), a source of poison, an evade so I like your idea be rewarded for the interrupt and the endurance loss which we do not have in the game (and making it only on 1 skill so it does not become too much). I am just not sure if this does not becomes too easy with unblockable.
    I tried to make sb work with a druid support mainly cc based but it was not that great.

    For PvE druid is not a rewarding class to play, it is very passive and it doesn't bring anything impactful. For pvp try trailblazers druid with Shortbow.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    For PvE druid is not a rewarding class to play, it is very passive and it doesn't bring anything impactful. For pvp try trailblazers druid with Shortbow.

    So more a tanky side noder style? Does it work better with druid than core or slb? Does celestial avatar come often enough?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    For PvE druid is not a rewarding class to play, it is very passive and it doesn't bring anything impactful. For pvp try trailblazers druid with Shortbow.

    So more a tanky side noder style? Does it work better with druid than core or slb? Does celestial avatar come often enough?

    No, you'll be forced to use celestial shadow and then lose the node.
    Boonbeast is a soulbeast build. Thats the tanky side noder.
    Celestial avatar is 15s in pvp. Either way that's not the issue, druidic shadows is with the stealth which you need to recover. Otherwise druid does not have the needed sustain.