Today I learned why people dislike to have LB/GS ranger in their team

I'm new to the game and I spend tons of hours reading and learning and one thing that always kept bothering me is that the vast majority of the community don't welcome the LB/GS ranger outside of PvP and open world, I myself as person who love ranger in general was having more fun with LB/GS instead of the condi builds and said "if I master it I can do better with it" but I started to notice that my damage output with big bosses are very poor so I decided to grind for exotic viper build as a test and after I got full viper gear I did normal dps test with golems (no boons) and holly shit the difference is so BIG!!!I make 3.6k with LB/GS and incase of only LB is I can't get more then its 3.1k only, but on the condi SB/SB I get 9k average even though I just used the build for only 1 day and I can push the number higher by time while the LB/GS I was playing it for over a month!

Now I get the idea of why LB/GS is very bad compared to the condi builds and I will do my best to adopt to the new condi build.

You are playing vipers gear. A stat set that is designed for condition damage output. Of course a condition weaponset (shortbow) will outperform lb. LB/GS is alrightish and u should be easily pulling 25k with it with good boons. You need to get berserker stats in order to play the build you want.

LB/GS ranger is a perfect build for open world, and for chill story modecondi sb whit short bow/dagger+torch should on boons do aprox 28-29k dps on golem

@"Murshid.9854" said:I'm new to the game and I spend tons of hours reading and learning and one thing that always kept bothering me is that the vast majority of the community don't welcome the LB/GS ranger outside of PvP and open world, I myself as person who love ranger in general was having more fun with LB/GS instead of the condi builds and said "if I master it I can do better with it" but I started to notice that my damage output with big bosses are very poor so I decided to grind for exotic viper build as a test and after I got full viper gear I did normal dps test with golems (no boons) and holly kitten the difference is so BIG!!!I make 3.6k with LB/GS and incase of only LB is I can't get more then its 3.1k only, but on the condi SB/SB I get 9k average even though I just used the build for only 1 day and I can push the number higher by time while the LB/GS I was playing it for over a month!

Now I get the idea of why LB/GS is very bad compared to the condi builds and I will do my best to adopt to the new condi build.

I love your post :)

From your post I gather you are using a dpsmeter (arcdps most likely) and that got you into a huge part of GW2 that gets neglected by the majority of the playerbase... you started playing around with your build, watching your stats etc. you started theorycrafting and comparing.

Keep going ! Dont let anyone stop you. Theorycrafting in mmorpgs is one of the best things of the genre.

As I understand it the problem with LB/GS ranger isn't that the DPS is lower than other builds (as other people said if you use pure damage stats like beserker's - power, precision and ferocity - you should get decent DPS numbers. The problem is that it's not as useful to a group as other things a ranger could be doing, like providing boons to their allies, or conditions/control effects on enemies. But it really depends on the group, some won't mind what you're using and some will already have someone to do boons and will be happy with you focusing on damage. And for the open-world where you're usually not in a party most of the time and mechanics are less important you can pretty much use whatever you like.

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's really annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

That's not exclusive to rangers of course, all knockback skills are equally problematic, but it seems to happen most often with rangers using a longbow or greatsword and mesmers using a greatsword, possibly because those are combinations that appeal to new players who may not yet know to avoid knockbacks.

(Incidentally knockbacks aren't always a bad thing, even in groups. But they're extremely situational and require you to consider not just what you're doing and what the enemy is doing but what everyone else around you is doing too and make a decision...in about 1/2 a second.)

LB/GS are power burst weapons that best compliment x/axe. They aren't bad, they just don't synergise for dps.

I personally dislike longbow rangers who think longbow 4 is a dps gain on mobs without a breakbar, yet never use it on breakbars.

@Westenev.5289 said:LB/GS are power burst weapons that best compliment x/axe. They aren't bad, they just don't synergise for dps.

I personally dislike longbow rangers who think longbow 4 is a dps gain on mobs without a breakbar, yet never use it on breakbars.

While I understand the sentiment, and am confused why they don't use it on break bars, Point Blank Shot is DPS increase with Soulbeast. With CD reduction, it can maintain the Twice as Vicious buff.

There are better dps builds for power soulbeast than lb/gs. The benefit to lb is range and it can be a fantastic thing in WvW. If you haven’t already, take a look at snowcrows website and learn their rotation for power soulbeast. It will improve your dps s lot. Having said that, I play both power and condi and condi is just as fun and a bit more forgiving on the rotation.

@Danikat.8537 said:................

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's really annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

This!!!, so much this!! Too many nublets running these easy mode builds spamming their knock backs.

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:................

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's

really

annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

I used to do this. especially when i was new to the game. I couldn't understand the concept of not using a skill/waiting to use a skill to get more overall dps.

@"Westenev.5289" said:I personally dislike longbow rangers who think longbow 4 is a dps gain on mobs without a breakbar, yet never use it on breakbars.

:lol: Oh yes, I very much agree. I love how everyone in the group is working on pulling mobs together for most effective AoE damage, and then some ranger comes along and starts pushing them away (even worse: warriors who use knockbacks). When I dare to comment on it in chat (example: "Could you please stop pushing enemies out of your teammates' AoE? Longbow pushes are for breakbars only, or for soloing content."), I would always get responses like "Chill, dude!" B)

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:................

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's

really

annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

Rangers aren't the only class. Every class has some problematic skills. There is nothing more frustrating what you pulled 5 mobs into a nice little dps bundle just to have someone just fear, or blast them all apart. It's just easier to spot the ranger with the obvious pew pew pew.

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:................

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's

really

annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

Which is also annoying when it's not the ranger doing it. I was once nearly kicked out of a Labyrinth group because someone kept knocking back enemies, the commander saw a ranger pet and assumed it was a ranger doing it and started blaming me (as the only ranger there). Fortunately a few people backed me up that a ranger using axe/torch and shortbow cannot knockback enemies. I can't remember the specifics but we eventually worked out that it was someone with a trait that gave knockback to a skill which doesn't normally have it, which they'd only slotted for a Labyrinth build so even they didn't realise they were doing it.

@"Danikat.8537" said:

Which is also annoying when it's not the ranger doing it. I was once nearly kicked out of a Labyrinth group because someone kept knocking back enemies, the commander saw a ranger pet and assumed it was a ranger doing it and started blaming me (as the only ranger there). Fortunately a few people backed me up that a ranger using axe/torch and shortbow cannot knockback enemies. I can't remember the specifics but we eventually worked out that it was someone with a trait that gave knockback to a skill which doesn't normally have it, which they'd only slotted for a Labyrinth build so even they didn't realise they were doing it.

I saw a lot of rangers blamed for knockback in the Labyrinth and 9 times out of 10 it wasn't even a power doing it. Many peeps use the Labyrinth to level up their toons, and every time they leveled, it created a huge knockback (after which you'd hear, "Stop using knockback, Rangers!"). Fortunately, as the Mad King event progressed, more and more realized it was just "level up knockback" and there was not much you could do (though when I was leveling up a character there and I saw I was about to pop, I'd run away from the door for a second for the burst then go back) ~ :)

another thing with the lb-ranger is the turret effect. In traditional games you have a trinity with tank/dps/healer. The LB is most succefull in mimicking the dps in the trinity (stand in the back and deal dps while standing still). While this is longer viable in the earlier content, it gets lesser viable in later content. You do not learn basic mechanics like self healing, CC, damage control, dodging, etc. This makes the player in what I call a turret. A stationary vulnerable object that deals DPS, that could just as well be a npc. It does not mean that all LB-rangers are like this and are bad, it just gives them a bad name. This is something simular to the wammo in GW1. There where very viable builds for warrior/monk. But also very rookie mistakes where made, giving this combination (warrior/monk, nicknamed wammo a very bad name).

My personal advice: Play like you like to play. This should always come first. Be constructive and adaptive. Recognise your own mistakes and learn from them. Do not let anyone tell you how to play your character or class., but do accept tips as they can be very viable.

My current build (holosmith) is a very glasscannon type of build. It is very strong, but it also has it's flaws. In a good strong group it works like a charm, but when things go wrong, I'm often the first on the ground. I rarely get comment about my build (and it is an adaptation of a meta build), but I do know it's pro's and cons.

I don't think Anet have a great touch with their playerbase - lb ranger has been popular in pve for years, and is about as useful as a wet noodle.

It's the same for any open world build really. It's great for tagging mobs, but when you're actually expected to perform in a group setting... tagging mobs is not a viable method of play.

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@Bassdeff.1895 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:................

There's also a more specific (and more easily avoided) problem, which is that some people (as they probably will with any build) will use all their skills whenever they come off cool-down, which means every 15 seconds they're using Point Blank Shot or Counterattack (skill 4) to send the enemy flying backwards. That's

really

annoying for everyone else, especially those using melee weapons or area-of-effect (AoE) skills because it effectively stops their attacks from working.

Actually it's easier to spot the Ranger because all the enemies will go flying off within the same general direction (providing piercing arrows are in play)

God knows how many times I've seen enemies go flying off in all directions and someone in the chat blames a Ranger for it.. Rangers cannot launch enemies off in all directions like that with a Point Blank Shot, they can only do that by leveling up in the middle of a group of enemies.When enemies go flying off in all directions like that either someone leveled up or some other class with an AoE knockback triggered it.

don't try mix build vs hand+motivation to make dps

Hi ! It's really a good thing that you'r looking for improvements and checking your different options.On topic, with the correct build and setup, (berserker and even marauder) your greatsword & Longbow autos should already hit for ~7k.Now I don't know if you like to play as a Soulbeast, it actually has the highest burst opener in the game (50 to 60k with all buffs) around 25k alone, but of course it's a burst so it falls quickly, but stays on par with the average dps for longer fights.Problem is, to reach these numbers you can't have both greatsword and Long Bow, since Dagger/Axe is mandatory (Whirling Defense is the best ranger's damage skill).But if you really can't stand Dagger/Axe on your Ranger, which I can understand, knows that as a Ranger you can bring Spirits to your party.

With Quickness and 25 Might stacks you can expect to push at least 15k during fractals/dungeons using Bow/Greatsword, It's not that high but I guess it's the price to play what you loves instead of what performs the best, you should be able to do well in most pve content, except for some raids Pugging, of course.Little tip, try to avoid pugging instanced contents if you are playing off-meta builds, better to play those with friends/guildmates that know how to deal with / compliment it, a lot of people in pugs get really salty when they are dealing with a dps that does 2times less than every other dps (which I can understand too).

@Danikat.8537 said:That's not exclusive to rangers of course, all knockback skills are equally problematic

Flamethrower Engi. :neutral: The betrayal I feel when my friend vents a mob I'm in melee with is palpable.

I don't particularly care for melee builds. I keep going back to axe/LB builds. I like warhorn because if I can get close enough to those with melee builds, I can put them in "godmode" with Call of the Wild which in effect makes my dps appear to be high. What I would give for rangers to have a mix of renegade shortbow skills.

This is an misplaced conclusion, I think. LB/GS combination is some of the highest DPS weapons in the game. Of course, it looks garbage when you compare it to what other classes can do; this is because Ranger isn't good at DPS in general. But the combination has been severely nerfed over time because on SB at least it can still 100-0 someone in a few seconds in the competitive game modes.

Something that can make your mount, HP bar, and downstate all evaporate into thin air isn't weak by any means. In fact there's still frequent calls for nerfs to Rapid Fire because its one of the cheapest, most effective skills in the game.

Its never about what gear you use, its about your build and how you use it.

Players saying LB #4 isn't a DPS increase are also incorrect; the reason you see so many Rangers using it is because they get Quickness from attacking at max range, thus LB #4 is often a flat 33% DPS increase with no other sources of Quickness, which is common in open-world. Yes, its annoying when players use it, but so is a multitude of other things including the constant Fear spam from Necros.

Did you know that certain Thief builds Fear all enemies on every stealth attack? Its terrible to play alongside.

I'll give you a bit of advice, quit worrying about DPS numbers unless you're doing raids, T4 Fractal CMs, speedruns, etc. Play what build works for you, what synergises with your playing style, instead of forcing yourself to play builds you don't like.