change stealth - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home WvW

change stealth

13>

Comments

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Why do you even bother complaining about "today" when everything will be different in 2 days?
    The game is filled with broken mechanics anyway. When your favorite profession have one, you just fight hard to keep it, when the professions that counter yours have it's own you fight hard for it to be removed from the game. Isn't it a bit hypocrite?

    Yup, that definitely applies to many people.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    I mean, currently in combat its high risk low reward, while out of combat its low risk, high reward. The problem is how do you make out of combat stealth be less of a problem without removing it entirely.

    I disagree completely on your first point, even in combat is is low risk

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2020

    @Loke.1429 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    I mean, currently in combat its high risk low reward, while out of combat its low risk, high reward. The problem is how do you make out of combat stealth be less of a problem without removing it entirely.

    I disagree completely on your first point, even in combat is is low risk

    It's not, any channelled or aoe skill still one/two-shots you.
    Won't after the next patch, sure, but then probably neither will thief out of stealth.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loke.1429 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    @Loke.1429 said:
    Should be low risk low reward. Needs balance nerf to the ground, max stealth uptime should be 30-45sec per 60 sec. If i stop playing its because they failed to balance this kitten

    I mean, currently in combat its high risk low reward, while out of combat its low risk, high reward. The problem is how do you make out of combat stealth be less of a problem without removing it entirely.

    I disagree completely on your first point, even in combat is is low risk

    Hardly. In-combat almost all ways of gaining stealth are slow, and all of them are telegraphed. And while in stealth, youre going to take full damage from anything that hits you without being able to fight back. In a world where there are countless cleave, AoE or Channeled skills, thats going to be a lot of damage you take without fighting back. Its high risk alright.

  • what risk? you stealth up around a corner, move in, land your hit, step away.

    No risk at all.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    what risk? you stealth up around a corner, move in, land your hit, step away.

    No risk at all.

    It seems you didn't understand the post you're answering to. Pretty sure if you "stealth up around a corner", it's no longer an in-combat stealth.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    what risk? you stealth up around a corner, move in, land your hit, step away.

    No risk at all.

    It seems you didn't understand the post you're answering to. Pretty sure if you "stealth up around a corner", it's no longer an in-combat stealth.

    Precisely. Thats out of combat, which yes, has no real risk because the enemy cant really abuse the fact that stealth makes you a sitting duck without knowing that you are there, and roughly where you are, in the first place.

  • Zoser.7245Zoser.7245 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2020

    If after all these years they did not changed be able to attack from stealth without any warning that let the enemy have the oportunity to counter and react the upcoming attack from stealth. That is still possible. I really doubt they'll do. If you read the forums, a lot of players don't care about balance and how to balance properly and simply defend their profession mechanics despite not be balanced. Steal is a good example of a skill that should have a cast time when overloaded and, of course, a big distintive sound that you can listen from the Moon, as every skill should has in a balanced game. The casting times, animations and sounds are all important in a balanced game. You should even listen enemies in stealth with your stereo system to determine where they are if they are enough near to listen them, in what direction or place they stopped or able to react their engage abilities from distance thanks to the sound and delayed animations in the casting times. Something that don't happen in this game with several skills that should warn you before suffer them if you don't react at time. Things like blinks or teleports that are instant should only have that purpose and do nothing more. Skills that damage or control never should have instant cast times.

    You should add that, in the case of the stealth, as not all people have a good audition or audio equipment, there is another important thing that this game lacks too. For example, to prevent the abuse of the stealth everywhere or give you a tool to setup an offensive or defensive strategy in an area that you want to control, you need the Wards. Balanced games use the "Ward". Ward is an skill or object that gives you the vision in the area where you place or use it during X time. So no player/mob/pet/minion/ilusion can enter there without be revealed or visible. Is used to prevent ganks that potentially can kill you without being able to defend yourself and react. Not only from a single one shot combo, from several players together too, etc. And well used are a powerfull strategy tool. Usually Wards cost resources or gold. In our PvP that lacks of resources, the CoolDown should be the same as the duration of the Ward to allow have always one active and maybe a single Ward for each player in a dedicated new slot in the player UI could work for all game modes despite if Arenanet want to maintain other things... About the area for the Ward, it should be tested, maybe one with a radius of around 500 units could be enough to let you fight inside without problem and be an enough area of vision, that should work. Of course, if you move yourself outside a warded area, you'll be vulnerable to be attacked by surprise from steaalth attacks, etc, so you must thing where and when yo use your ward carefully, your strategy and how to coordinate your ward with the ones of your teammates, squad, etc, when necessary. Engaging skills/combos will be the way to try to surprise you in warded areas, but you should be able to react to their sound, casting times and animations if properly balanced unless you already burned out all your resources in a fight.

    Wards are the key and the right tool we need, not like the joke of pseudo Wards that we have in Gw2... the tricks from WvW that depends more of your guess and luck than other thing or the upgraded structures that only help you in the minimap that even watching it, the usual is that you'll fail placing a single "Target Painter" only with that help and its small area at range. The skills and traits to reveal enemies more of the same, are designed to only be used if you know where your oponent is and not to prevent and counter an unpredictable attacks letting some unfair game play unless you are lucky!!! Or in some case react after you already ate the attack. As the ground effects are invisible in several surfaces and the sound is not always reliable for all people, Warding is very important and the main tool against potential abusive things... Watching how they carefully have designed the reveal skills/traits, the WvW tricks and upgraded structures, is easy to figure that they always has avoided on purpose to counter the Stealth Attacks and Steal that they have designed for thiefs despite if that allow those and other skills from whatever profession to be abused too. All those skills and mechanic creates unfair situations. The tools we have to mark or reveal only works against professions that can't insta cast a combo without warnings and can't access stealth often, but not against thiefs.

    These are examples referring to this thread of why this game cannot be an e-Sport of properly balanced until certain things are addresed and corrected, things that make the game unbalanced or not viable to be an e-Sport or, at least, a balanced game. Also adjustements are neede to several animations, timings, effects, a more undestandable spectators UI, revise the numbers after the new damage base settle, etc. A lot of work to be done. The hopes are always there but the facts are another history. Is something that we will watch after some more years. Anyways, with luck and unless another solid alternative is released under the b2p mode without fees in the west market, this game should survive enough time and still have enough PvE and WvW player base for view a reborn if things are done right from now. A returning dev affirmed that Gw2 have a bright future... But not why and how. Expanding the platform to consoles will not retain the PC community, something more than LW episodes must be done to revamp the game globally and project it to the future. We will see.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoser.7245 said:
    If after all these years they did not changed stealth. I really doubt they'll do.

    Said on the day of the patch where they specificallly made a post to address stealth nerfs as it was lacking in the original patch notes.

    Chuckles

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Zoser.7245Zoser.7245 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zoser.7245 said:
    If after all these years they did not changed stealth. I really doubt they'll do.

    Said on the day of the patch where they specificallly made a post to address stealth nerfs as it was lacking in the original patch notes.

    Chuckles

    Address stealth nerfs? XD That is so funny. Maybe is to late to explain things properly. Can you link that post? That will be more useful than write "a post to address stealth nerfs" that does not make sense. Thanks in advance, because I haven't found that post. I don't watch that post in the latest balance notes they gave us for preview: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98085/upcoming-balance-notes/p1

    Nothing is addresed there, you can still attack from stealth without any warning that let your enemy have the oportunity to counter and react your upcoming attack from stealth. That is still possible and the main problem with it. And that also will not change what i mentioned about the need of casting times in some instant skills, delayed or slowed animations that they are partially doing with this patch, the need of wards, more defined sounds effects, etc.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I want press only and once button and be all time in stealth. Also want have vanish button to disappear is will be to hot.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Straegen.2938Straegen.2938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2020

    Most old school MMOs have some nasty stealth classes that essentially drop players from stealth.

    The fundamental design flaw in GW2 is that that players can go back into stealth almost immediately after an attack and they often move faster in stealth. Most MMOs temper stealth by moving very slowly and having huge cool downs when leaving stealth. Every class that has access to functional stealth already has blocks, evades, teleports, etc to get away after an attack. None need the ability to drop back into stealth 1 to 3 seconds later.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Straegen.2938 said:
    Most old school MMOs have some nasty stealth classes that essentially drop players from stealth.

    The fundamental design flaw in GW2 is that that players can go back into stealth almost immediately after an attack and they often move faster in stealth. Most MMOs temper stealth by moving very slowly and having huge cool downs when leaving stealth. Every class that has access to functional stealth already has blocks, evades, teleports, etc to get away after an attack. None need the ability to drop back into stealth 1 to 3 seconds later.

    Except, going into stealth after getting out of it is usually a bad idea, so you dont do it. You only go into stealth once youre out of combat, or for a splitsecond so you can get another stealth attack off.