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1 Shot out of stealth is a toxic/unhealthy mechanic


Skyronight.6370

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Before people say " just dodge" its not that simple considering you can keep reapplying stealth over and over until the enemy is out of cooldowns or you just catch them by surprise for the 1 shot. Even top tier teams are now just restealthing over and over to gain the upperhand in the first engage until they one shot someone. So who ever stays in stealth longer wins? That seems like a perfectly healthy and esports worthy game design right? its why this game has millions of viewers on twitch. Obviously not for those that didn't get this sarcasm, but toxic mechanics like 1 shot out of stealth / passive traits / passive CCs ( rangers pets) and etc has to go.

This is not the only thing that made people quit over the years but its one of them hopefully anet does something about it in the upcoming balance patch, dont just tweak numbers, tweak toxic unhealthy mechanics things like overcharged shot for example, a long CC with no animation, or a gazelle hitting people for 12k + passive the CC or thiefs pistol whip being a stun and a evade at the same time. Theres alot of unhealthy game mechanics that need to change with the balance patch but stealth is a big issue right now and is gonna be even a bigger issue after they nerf pistol whip and every1 will go back to 1 shot DP thief/ mesmer combo.

Just cap stealth duration to 3-5 seconds and after that people get automatically revealed for 5 seconds until they can gain acces to stealth again. this would alrdy help this game mode by a lot with a simple change like that, so 2 teams wouldnt be able to just perma stealth for 30 secs until the other runs out so they can 1 shot them first.

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This is called power-creep era. There are no more bunkers or point holders. It's kill or be killed; simple as that.

Personal advice: try to fight within the group Anet gives you. If you fight alone, then you're just another lost sheep caught by wolves outside the herd. There are exceptions though: like when fighting in team with voice chat in real time voice coordination, where teamwork dynamic tells you to go on an unprotected point to decap it; but such tactic is long gone, as teams are no longer allowed in this game's ranked matches. For now: enjoy fighting alone inside a group of bots, and you could even win.

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While I agree with some of yur points, is this really new?

Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

If yu are sidenoding, play a class which is better suited for sidenoding, because yur gonna be facing stuff like Holos, Thieves, Mesmers, Warriors, Rangers who are all extremely durable duelists.

If yu are playing necro, or some squish skirmisher, better go mid with yur group.

We'll have to wait for the supposed "900 changes" balance patch to see if they are willing to address such issues regarding game health, but until then, use a stat combination with some Toughness, run 2 or more stunbreaks, and use Scrapper runes if yur truly afraid of Stealth attacks.

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@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

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Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u gotta open ur eyes.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

Let's be real when u say when the other builds get nerfed to a balanced state u actually mean there's a equally high chance the got nerfed to a under performing state and are not really viable any more so players go to the next viable option. That seems more realistic of a scenario.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

Let's be real when u say when the other builds get nerfed to a balanced state u actually mean there's a equally high chance the got nerfed to a under performing state and are not really viable any more so players go to the next viable option. That seems more realistic of a scenario.

Well no.

I mean reality most builds are nerfed and can still perform but people like to think that builds that have minimal counterplay or too much of everything at once as balanced builds. While builds that when nerfed and have obviously weak aspects in their own kits (not against other professions) in respect to their strengths as dead and unviable.

Yes some builds might be unviable if you compare them to a build thats over performing which is what most people do. But if you compare them to builds that are not over performing they are technically balanced.

Most nerfs dont make a build unviable they make them have an obvious weakness as all builds should have.

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@Yasai.3549 said:While I agree with some of yur points, is this really new?

Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because these are relatively new players who are discovering the game / game-mode.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

Let's be real when u say when the other builds get nerfed to a balanced state u actually mean there's a equally high chance the got nerfed to a under performing state and are not really viable any more so players go to the next viable option. That seems more realistic of a scenario.

Well no.

I mean reality most builds are nerfed and can still perform but people like to think that builds that have minimal counterplay or too much of everything at once as balanced builds. While builds that when nerfed and have obviously weak aspects in their own kits (not against other professions) in respect to their strengths as dead and unviable.

Yes some builds might be unviable if you compare them to a build thats over performing which is what most people do. But if you compare them to builds that are not over performing they are technically balanced.

Most nerfs dont make a build unviable they make them have an obvious weakness as all builds should have.

Sry but what ur literally describing is a optimal nerf setting which doesn't exist in this game. Ur talking as if all anets nerfs were optimal leaving the specs I'm a more balanced state which is ........The reason the games in the state no speaks volumes for their nerf/buff potential. Things may change with this new team but in the past saying builds were nerfed into balanced state so the went to another blatent op build worth flooding the forums over as if there's always one to go to that no one was playing before lol. In this iteration of the game every class has a spec with a cheese build with less counter play and it takes the same to fight it so we are where we are today. Blaming one spec or one of its mechanics for using cheese these days is disingenuous at best.

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People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

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@saerni.2584 said:People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

It's the archetypes design. Go to bdo,eso or archeage's forums, the rogue archetypes in those games all produce these very same types of threads and about the exact same aspects lol. It's a staple in the mmo genre and it's not gonna change unless anet decides to either not have a rogue like class or do a rogue type class that doesn't fit the current archetype which at that point is it still rogue like?

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@saerni.2584 said:People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

It's the archetypes design. Go to bdo,eso or archeage's forums, the rogue archetypes in those games all produce these very same types of threads and about the exact same aspects lol. It's a staple in the mmo genre and it's not gonna change unless anet decides to either not have a rogue like class or do a rogue type class that doesn't fit the current archetype which at that point is it still rogue like?

it can change, its simply another balancing activity. People get desensitised to stuff, but when you do The first thing is to consider is the experience from a new player perspective, and this is where the flawed concept stickks out like an ugly wart. The experience where you are fighting an opponent who is continually dropping out of the fight and going invisible while potentially bursting you is flawrd in pvp and a shit gaming experience.

Just because other games have let pve concerns like this bleed into pvp does not mean it should not or cannot be addressed.

Say it out aloud 'a fight where 1 player can continually dissappear for long periods of time mid fight then rejoin at will'. Awful right.

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@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@saerni.2584 said:People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

It's the archetypes design. Go to bdo,eso or archeage's forums, the rogue archetypes in those games all produce these very same types of threads and about the exact same aspects lol. It's a staple in the mmo genre and it's not gonna change unless anet decides to either not have a rogue like class or do a rogue type class that doesn't fit the current archetype which at that point is it still rogue like?

Ofc it can change, its simply another balancing activity. People get desensitised to stuff, but when you do The first thing is to consider is the experience from a new player perspective, and this is where the flawed concept stickks out like an ugly wart. The experience where you are fighting an opponent who is continually dropping out of the fight and going invisible while potentially bursting you is flawrd in pvp and a kitten gaming experience.

Just because other games have let pve concerns like this bleed into pvp does not mean it should not or cannot be addressed.

Theres a reason literally all mmo have the exact post complaints about the same class archetype and why their more predominant. The archetype isnt liked by anyone other than players that play it. If u changed it to a point the threads discontinued I guarantee what ud have left wouldn't resemble a rogue class. People need to exept such a archetype exists or play a game that doesnt have a rogue like class.

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@SeikeNz.3526 said:well you are implying the stealth mechanic is the problem and not the dmg done by everyone

@SeikeNz.3526 said:well you are implying the stealth mechanic is the problem and not the dmg done by everyone

@SeikeNz.3526 said:well you are implying the stealth mechanic is the problem and not the dmg done by everyone

Stealth is not the root cause of the problem, Toxic-Unhealthy mechanic is.

Stealth is the agent that triggers Toxicity to its unhealthy state and does it doing in disguise, that is why it need to be targeted first

Example: Stealth is the trigger and Toxicity is the weapon and bullet

Anet created the most dangerous profession in the game and that is why Thief Profession need to be redesigned

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Swtor does stealth and stealth-classes much better.Each class that has access to stealth, can prolong stealth indefinitely, though you´re a bit slower and can get detected when too close/touching enemies.Also, each class with stealth doesn´t deal high damage.Chosing such a class is trading damage for stealth, which is how it should be in any pvp-mode/game with stealth-mechanics.

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If you only knew how easy it is to know where a thief is, as long as you have teamwork through voice chat... Back in the good old days if a thief left far, that person would tell in voice chat "thief left far, incoming mid". If thief would not appear mid, then "incoming close", because even Shadow Arts and "permastealth" build were not exactly permanent, so it was really easy to guess the next step with communication.

However, we like to play alone, and we want to know every step of every player, without even doing some efforts in teaming up and communicating the information that truly matters. It's our fault for voting to play alone,in 2016, and for accepting to play alone out of fear so we would not get demolished by teams who coordinate in free voice chat (Discord, Teamspeak, Mumble).

Coming up next: let's ask from Anet to modify the mini-map so it would show us not only the allied members, but also enemy members. This way we would know precisely where the thief is and can approximately anticipate when and how enemy will strike. Anet, please include this in the next announced 800+ modification patch.

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@Arzurag.7506 said:Swtor does stealth and stealth-classes much better.Each class that has access to stealth, can prolong stealth indefinitely, though you´re a bit slower and can get detected when too close/touching enemies.Also, each class with stealth doesn´t deal high damage.Chosing such a class is trading damage for stealth, which is how it should be in any pvp-mode/game with stealth-mechanics.

SWTOR half assed its class design so bad more than half of the classes are basically the same. And the classes with stealth do have high damage, no clue where you got that from. They traded out of stealth SUSTAIN for stealth.

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@"Alin.2468" said:If you only knew how easy it is to know where a thief is, as long as you have teamwork through voice chat... Back in the good old days if a thief left far, that person would tell in voice chat "thief left far, incoming mid". If thief would not appear mid, then "incoming close", because even Shadow Arts and "permastealth" build were not exactly permanent, so it was really easy to guess the next step with communication.

However, we like to play alone, and we want to know every step of every player, without even doing some efforts in teaming up and communicating the information that truly matters. It's our fault for voting to play alone,in 2016, and for accepting to play alone out of fear so we would not get demolished by teams who coordinate in free voice chat (Discord, Teamspeak, Mumble).

Coming up next: let's ask from Anet to modify the mini-map so it would show us not only the allied members, but also enemy members. This way we would know precisely where the thief is and can approximately anticipate when and how enemy will strike. Anet, please include this in the next announced 800+ modification patch.

Lol get over yourself. This is a casual game, always has been, and that means the vast majority do not play iin premade groups with vc. That aside, arguing that vc makes up for the poor gameplay that invisible gives indicates a. Shallow understanding of what makes for a good. Game.

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@saerni.2584 said:People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

It's the archetypes design. Go to bdo,eso or archeage's forums, the rogue archetypes in those games all produce these very same types of threads and about the exact same aspects lol. It's a staple in the mmo genre and it's not gonna change unless anet decides to either not have a rogue like class or do a rogue type class that doesn't fit the current archetype which at that point is it still rogue like?

Ofc it can change, its simply another balancing activity. People get desensitised to stuff, but when you do The first thing is to consider is the experience from a new player perspective, and this is where the flawed concept stickks out like an ugly wart. The experience where you are fighting an opponent who is continually dropping out of the fight and going invisible while potentially bursting you is flawrd in pvp and a kitten gaming experience.

Just because other games have let pve concerns like this bleed into pvp does not mean it should not or cannot be addressed.

Theres a reason literally all mmo have the exact post complaints about the same class archetype and why their more predominant. The archetype isnt liked by anyone other than players that play it. If u changed it to a point the threads discontinued I guarantee what ud have left wouldn't resemble a rogue class. People need to exept such a archetype exists or play a game that doesnt have a rogue like class.

There is a reason, ita consistently a problem in every single mmo that let's invisible bleed into pvp.

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@Curennos.9307 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:Swtor does stealth and stealth-classes much better.Each class that has access to stealth, can prolong stealth indefinitely, though you´re a bit slower and can get detected when too close/touching enemies.Also, each class with stealth doesn´t deal high damage.Chosing such a class is trading damage for stealth, which is how it should be in any pvp-mode/game with stealth-mechanics.

SWTOR half assed its class design so bad more than half of the classes are basically the same. And the classes with stealth do have high damage, no clue where you got that from. They traded out of stealth SUSTAIN for stealth.

Their damage is so high that even a squishy dps-class can outheal them. /s

What I´m getting at is that no stealth-class has one-shot-potential, nor do they have high dps. Though, this is also due to the lack of updates that the game has received so the power-creep wasn´t as bad but that´s not the point.

Stealth-classes in swtor have got two advantages of stealth, the ability to traverse the map without being seen and the element of surprise.They don´t have enough damage to outright kill you and that´s what´s important.

In order to achieve balance, stealth-classes needs to have trade-offs that even out the odds due to stealth being quite opressive, be it visual tells when someone is about to strike from stealth or severly reduced damage.

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@Arzurag.7506 said:

@Arzurag.7506 said:Swtor does stealth and stealth-classes much better.Each class that has access to stealth, can prolong stealth indefinitely, though you´re a bit slower and can get detected when too close/touching enemies.Also, each class with stealth doesn´t deal high damage.Chosing such a class is trading damage for stealth, which is how it should be in any pvp-mode/game with stealth-mechanics.

SWTOR half assed its class design so bad more than half of the classes are basically the same. And the classes with stealth do have high damage, no clue where you got that from. They traded out of stealth SUSTAIN for stealth.

Their damage is so high that even a squishy dps-class can outheal them. /s

What I´m getting at is that no stealth-class has one-shot-potential, nor do they have high dps. Though, this is also due to the lack of updates that the game has received so the power-creep wasn´t as bad but that´s not the point.

Stealth-classes in swtor have got two advantages of stealth, the ability to traverse the map without being seen and the element of surprise.They don´t have enough damage to outright kill you and that´s what´s important.

In order to achieve balance, stealth-classes needs to have trade-offs
that even out the odds due to stealth being quite opressive, be it visual tells when someone is about to strike from stealth or severly reduced damage.

+1

Exactly this. This is why Anet Stealth design is Toxic Bad Design

--it is the reason why many potential players who play healthy competitive stealth design games stay clear far away from this game-

guild wars 2 harbors it and promotes it to extreme levels!!

(even hackers, exploiters can agree to this)

I don't encourage or recommend anyone to play this game at this Toxic state until Anet care to take action to resolve it indefinitely

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Thing is there are a lot more counter plays to steal then revealed but maybe a lot of players don't realize cuz they don't play thief. I'll give examples.Dh dps trap build- if u steal onto them to backstab their traps almost insta down u meaning a thief has to wait out the traps in which the dh can just redrop or wait for a ally to trip them then go in for the stealth back stab. The aegis also counters thief if not running boonsteal. Guards also have many ways to counter like constant erratic movements (all classes can do this) as the cd on back stab can make this annoying. They also have blocks they can time etc.

Necro's,scrappers and ele's have barriers that when used render thief's one shots into barely significant causing thief to be in melee range and probably force a disengagement. All these classes can condi or melee burst a thief in seconds if thief's caught.

Aoe's are so rampant in this game especially condi aoe's which are spammed almost all the time in team fights and even a lot in small group or 1v1's. These can strip a thief's hp fast even with SA traitline taken due to the powercreep.

Some classes have aoe reveal and or skills like magebane etc keeping enemies from stealthing.

Wvw has reveal traps, sniff and the reveal areas if stealth'd more than 2 secs.

There are more counter play options but don't want to bother typing more, if u think stealth has no counter play options u gotta open ur eyes.

1) THIS A PVP FORUMS2)What aegis ?I am sorry , but basilisc and Sweep arent unbrocable ?Backstab should behave like other games , you you get reveleaved when you miss the attack ... not try again after 2-3 sec...This is casual friendly

Necro's,scrappers and ele's get barriers when they waste spells . If you see those ppl start precasting ...congrats they wont do to you damage next turn , or wait this is disminish

If they are bunkers (with toughness amulets) ...they are meant to stall a 1v1You are a scissor ... why are you crying about killing bunkers ?

Aoe's and condition are so rampant ....if there was a thief trait ,that removed them ....https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Embrace + https://wiki-en.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Fortitude .... among other utilities spells + Rune sets

Wvw has reveal traps ....... AHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAH you place a 3 sec cast time trap , in a huge map ?

Wvw sniff .... AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH you see NON-stealth enemies on the minimap

reveal areas .... its your problem if you got near a tier 2 keep-tower ... and even so its for 30 sec ... nodays keeps and castle are easily flipped because its was nerfed ...so not many have time to become tier 2

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

Let's be real when u say when the other builds get nerfed to a balanced state u actually mean there's a equally high chance the got nerfed to a under performing state and are not really viable any more so players go to the next viable option. That seems more realistic of a scenario.

When Rev was released , in HoT , the majority of Thiefs went there .The underlining problems of thieves where not addressed such as S/D and StealthWhen rev was ''balanced'' every1 when back to thievesWhen the casuals coppied the Bunker specs from the pros Real money 2014 tourmanets , every1 whined about Bunkerwars .When the company gave other classes Burst abilities and Condition where buffed to counter Toughness in 2015 ...every1 whined about powercreep

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Why are people only now becoming vocal about this nonsense which has been in the game forever, and nonsense that I might add, people have been dealing with since god knows how long.

Because its more common than it was back thenPeople stopped using it when other options became availableWhen those other options get forced into a more-balanced state (are no longer op) people opt back to the 1 shot tactics cause anet allows it instead of fixing it.

People hit with this want to play their fun builds and professions which are likely not one shot builds from stealth but cant do so because they get one shot with little to no tell or time to react.

Aka you dont get to play.Rightfully so it will be complained about so long as people continue to use them cause its not fun not getting to play.

Let's be real when u say when the other builds get nerfed to a balanced state u actually mean there's a equally high chance the got nerfed to a under performing state and are not really viable any more so players go to the next viable option. That seems more realistic of a scenario.

Well no.

I mean reality most builds are nerfed and can still perform but people like to think that builds that have minimal counterplay or too much of everything at once as balanced builds. While builds that when nerfed and have obviously weak aspects in their own kits (not against other professions) in respect to their strengths as dead and unviable.

Yes some builds might be unviable if you compare them to a build thats over performing which is what most people do. But if you compare them to builds that are not over performing they are technically balanced.

Most nerfs dont make a build unviable they make them have an obvious weakness as all builds should have.

Sry but what ur literally describing is a optimal nerf setting which doesn't exist in this game. Ur talking as if all anets nerfs were optimal leaving the specs I'm a more balanced state which is ........The reason the games in the state no speaks volumes for their nerf/buff potential. Things may change with this new team but in the past saying builds were nerfed into balanced state so the went to another blatent op build worth flooding the forums over as if there's always one to go to that no one was playing before lol. In this iteration of the game every class has a spec with a cheese build with less counter play and it takes the same to fight it so we are where we are today. Blaming one spec or one of its mechanics for using cheese these days is disingenuous at best.

In this thread we discuss for 1 type of cheese ..stealthIf you want to whine about evades Weavers or Mersmer that can burst you from stealth you should creat a new topicThe one thing you are doing is protecting the cheese .... and then quit ...again when a new game will launch ?I wonder where the Thieves protecting their class , from the MegaHateTHeif 2013 thread went .....I dont beleive they whineed about powercreep and left ...that would be silly :POr if there wasnt enought casuals to pay the costs of Real Money Tournaments ...forcing the company to pay from his pockets or use the money from the PvE :PThose 2 cases would make some ppl extremly angry ....

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@saerni.2584 said:People have been complaining about stealth attacks since the beginning of the game.

This isn’t “new.” This has been going on since the game came out. Sure the balance may have shifted on damage and sustain but the ability to use hard hitting skills (for that meta) from stealth has always been there.

I really wish people used the forum search engine and saw how long the same arguments have been made ad nauseum.

Stealth will not be seriously nerfed/changed/removed from the game because it is a core game mechanic and Anet can’t change core game mechanics with significant design impact on the rest of the game without significant effort.

Reducing the stealth duration on specific skills is easy. Making some of kind cap on the overall duration is much more likely to require redesigning entire professions and rebalancing the entire game.

It's the archetypes design. Go to bdo,eso or archeage's forums, the rogue archetypes in those games all produce these very same types of threads and about the exact same aspects lol. It's a staple in the mmo genre and it's not gonna change unless anet decides to either not have a rogue like class or do a rogue type class that doesn't fit the current archetype which at that point is it still rogue like?

When are hit and are conditioned they are unstealthWhen you miss your backstab ...you get unstealth ...not try againWhen you are stealthed , you are slowed (you can keep your stealth survibility -but i am running away faster )Evades does make you immune to condition damageYou get stealth ...and slowy move to your target ...And not istantly travel with a free teleport ''Steal''This is why we must use the archetype of other games and not diviate from the normal

If thief is a rogue he doesnt need 1-shot mechanics ..hence this thread ...Give it to Rev insteadIf he is assasin rename its evades mechanics to something else , that counters only meele attacks and not range or conditions and redeuce any survibility traitsOr he must keep both ...then he must have 1 set of weapons like HoT rev.Then assasin he can get buffed to the roofAnd the rest of the casuals must unlocked a trait that ''saves'' the when their hp get 50% or when stunned , for counterplayIf he chooses to equip a second weapon before the match , he gets weaker with reduced damage

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