Reworking conditions and combos to promote skilled play — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Reworking conditions and combos to promote skilled play

jul.7602jul.7602 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 17, 2020 in WvW

What if we reworked our conditions to be more like the ailments and abnormalities in Monster Hunter, and Sekiro (yeah I know 99% never heard of it). Basically conditions would have the following design philosophies.

  • Relatively fewer conditions, but each condition is unique, considerably more powerful and requires an immediate reaction from the player.
  • Conditions do not stack in intensity or duration, are difficult to apply, especially in AoE. Few skills will even have conditions, and those that do will only have one and do negligible damage. In order to inflict the condition, you must exceed your target's "resilience" through several successive attacks, each one depleting the resilience meter until the condition is finally inflicted. Like a breakbar, but with conditions. Resilience recovers each second, but especially faster if you are not recently struck by that condition. To be more concise, inflicting a condition is rare, intentional and satisfying.
  • After falling victim to a condition, your resilience to that condition is reset, and increased exponentially, making it increasingly difficult to apply the same condition several times to the same player. Breaking combat resets all resilience parameters. In monster hunter this is called tolerance and acts as a diminishing return.
  • Conditions generally **cannot **be cleansed by other skills. Instead, the player can mitigate the effects by doing certain maneuvers. As an example, burning can be cleansed by dodging two times.
  • There is specific counter play that is not dependent on specific abilities, with reasonable reaction times that can greatly limit their damage. Good players will excel, spammers and drones will suffer. Made in italics.

With that being said this is how I would rework a few conditions. For the sake of PvE, lets just make a duplicate list of conditions that only apply to PvP and WvW, and leave PvE alone.

Burning- Inflicts high burst damage, over relatively small duration. Can be inflicted in AoE by.

Does nothing for the first two seconds(or whatever the exact time it takes to regenerate two dodges from 0). After this grace period, you take damage equal to 40% of your maximum health over the next 4 seconds. _Can be immediately cleansed (even during the grace period) by rolling twice, or rolling once in a water field. Leaping/rolling through an ice field will convert the condition into 3 seconds of invulnerability.

Debilitate- Combine immobilization, chill, slow, and cripple into one condition that drastically impairs your target's mobility and ability to be aggressive. Can be inflicted

15 seconds. Does nothing for the first two seconds (grace period). Disable the player's auto-attack. All other skills/abilities take three times as long to activate. Movement speed buffs are negated, and the player's movement speed is reduced by 10%. Changing weapons or attunements will instantly reduce the remaining duration by 8 seconds. Entering or leaving an elite transformation automatically removes this condition. Leaping through lightning fields will automatically convert this condition and its remaining duration into superspeed, quickness, and alacrity.

Panic-Combine fear and confusion into a condition that punishes clustering.

5 seconds. Upon infliction, all allies within 600 units are also automatically inflicted as well. First 2 seconds does nothing (warning period). At the end of the 3rd second, contaminated players lose 20% of their maximum health if they are within 300 units of another other allied player. At the end of the 5th second, players will become stunned for 3 seconds if they are within 300 units of another player. The damage is treated as if it were an attack, thus can be completely avoided by two well timed dodge rolls, or the appropriate amount of invuln/evade/block frames. Blasting/leaping/whirling in the vicinity of a light removes contamination from yourself (exempts you but not others from being harmed). Alternatively, you can try to spread out.

TLDR: Make conditions much stronger, but infrequent. Countering conditions (outside of complete avoidance) should involve crisp evade timings, environmental interactions or teamwork as opposed to relying on 1-2 professions to spam their cleanses.

Comments

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure skilled play is desirable, tbh.

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2020

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I'm not sure skilled play is desirable, tbh.

    Kinda feel that Anet tried to segregate part of the “balance is needed player's” by discouraging with more unbalance and easy access gimmicks.

    @jul.7602 condition are easy to fix, it isn’t needed agressive changes.

    Classes need to apply much less conditions or less stacks but maybe stronger ones.
    Some conditions need to become hexes.
    Some boons need tombe something else.

    Problem of conditions is due Anet want players tonoverperformace.

    I play builds that can stable apllly 40-50 torments stacks and condi thief still does a lot of low effort condi spam.
    I’ve won by being lame, that’s how one must play.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I'm not sure skilled play is desirable, tbh.

    Kinda feel that Anet tried to segregate part of the “balance is needed player's” by discouraging with more unbalance and easy access gimmicks.

    @jul.7602 condition are easy to fix, it isn’t needed agressive changes.

    Classes need to apply much less conditions or less stacks but maybe stronger ones.
    Some conditions need to become hexes.
    Some boons need tombe something else.

    Problem of conditions is due Anet want players tonoverperformace.

    I play builds that can stable apllly 40-50 torments stacks and condi thief still does a lot of low effort condi spam.
    I’ve won by being lame, that’s how one must play.

    +1

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If players want skilled play, learn to play without Firebrands. I'd wager most of the WvW players now (both new and old), would completely collapse without being carried by them.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    If players want skilled play, learn to play without Firebrands. I'd wager most of the WvW players now (both new and old), would completely collapse without being carried by them.

    Stacking a full team of scrappers with scourges is cheasy as hell as well, build effectiveness gap between min maxers is to much rewarding on the damage output and boon spam / sustain on some classes, wich is bad cause ends invalidating other ways to play, the class/build diversification on wvw is actually a mask of people trying to find a way to play that ends, in every player reaching and tuning for the stacks n spam or very overperformance solo builds.

    Some changes need to be done, to put players into their personal skill spot.

    Let’s see if this gets adressed :) fingers crossed.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 18, 2020

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    I'm not sure skilled play is desirable, tbh.

    Kinda feel that Anet tried to segregate part of the “balance is needed player's” by discouraging with more unbalance and easy access gimmicks.

    [..]

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I play builds that can stable apllly 40-50 torments stacks and condi thief still does a lot of low effort condi spam.
    I’ve won by being lame, that’s how one must play.

    That's the problem : skilled players take easy-access gimmicks, destroy everybody else (skilled AND unskilled players) with them. Take a look at the proliferation of roaming warriors. You know who you are.

    It makes you wonder why they don't just make everything easy-access. At least people would be able to CHOOSE which classes to play. Or is that sacrilege?

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain