Absolutely Ridiculous — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Absolutely Ridiculous

cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

Who in their wisdom ,gave all the advantage to the attacking force ,rangers shooting over walls ,scourge painting walls ridiculous pulls through walls when is a T3 not a T3 when its in GW2 ,defenders cant even get a look in ,siege hard to actually use , cannot use mortars they wiped before you even get in, make the game balanced for both sides ,last kitten chance to help this game mode ,hop off walls and attack you say ,ha what a crock dead before you even hit the ground. This game mode is a lost cause. Solution just clear the maps of any objectives just make it all open ground and leave no hiding places ,flat barren land then head to head attackers wont have to waste effort.

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Comments

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The trouble back when prepared structures provided a substantial defensive advantage was that no one would attack them and maps became stagnant. While the current state of defense is less engaging for the defenders, it has led to more active maps and is therefore successful . . .

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cobbah.3102 said:
    Solution just clear the maps of any objectives just make it all open ground and leave no hiding places ,flat barren land then head to head attackers wont have to waste effort.

    Or you could just place your siege better.

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    Standing on a wall to defend? That usually means you're outnumbered. Doesn't everyone know by now you're supposed to automatically lose when your side has fewer players? Now please buy more gems for transfers so Anet can continue improving Don Quixote Simulator 2020.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

  • @cobbah.3102 said:
    Who in their wisdom ,gave all the advantage to the attacking force ,rangers shooting over walls ,scourge painting walls ridiculous pulls through walls when is a T3 not a T3 when its in GW2 ,defenders cant even get a look in ,siege hard to actually use , cannot use mortars they wiped before you even get in, make the game balanced for both sides ,last kitten chance to help this game mode ,hop off walls and attack you say ,ha what a crock dead before you even hit the ground. This game mode is a lost cause. Solution just clear the maps of any objectives just make it all open ground and leave no hiding places ,flat barren land then head to head attackers wont have to waste effort.

    "I cant win without fighting and defending objectives takes effort"

  • it would be nice for a defender buff when all the walls and gates are up. something like permanent iron hide that also affects condis. with numbers and the insane damage people can pull off it sadly wouldn't make much of a difference.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • Jayden Reese.9542Jayden Reese.9542 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For the most part it's fine. You go to the edge of wall and get pulled you deserve it. If you try and cast 11 skills in a row instead of 2 and back off and get aoe'd down on you. But there are some things they need to fix both sides. The abilitys where the ele or w/e hump the wall zoom in and somehow get deep meteor showers or any skill hitting the a/c in spots you shouldn't reach cause I can't when I'm outside. No one should ever get pulled from way back and I know it's the mez line thing up on the wall then a coordinated aoe. No skills should pass thru gates like rev ground or the amount of players I've downed with reaper shroud 4 or all the aoe nonsense that gets through. If you can't place the target you should get obstructed like a 12 foot wall you can los bypass but a blade of grass in open field naaa your skill obstructed. Stuff def needs to be fixed

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    it would be nice for a defender buff when all the walls and gates are up. something like permanent iron hide that also affects condis. with numbers and the insane damage people can pull off it sadly wouldn't make much of a difference.

    Or maybe something like a ton of extra stats for defenders, huh?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • The K Train must not be slowed or interrupted.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2020

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    it would be nice for a defender buff when all the walls and gates are up. something like permanent iron hide that also affects condis. with numbers and the insane damage people can pull off it sadly wouldn't make much of a difference.

    Or maybe something like a ton of extra stats for defenders, huh?

    so status quo then?

    edit
    or maybe you were serious.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why wvw needs competitive objectives that are not just towers and keeps imo..

    when the pve portion of wvw is removed that makes it true wvw

    The pentical of wvw now is fights at walls and doors of 40v40

    Every once in a while 40v40 while running to one of those walls or doors.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2020

    2020 and people are still getting on top of walls with 0 stab to ineffectually pew pew instead of building acs against stairs? Or maybe grab a dragon banner? i mean if this was your first day playing wvw sure, but... I bet y'all pull Emergency Waypoint when outer gets breached assuming you even know how to place a tactivator.

    A determined and organized defense can easily delay an attack long enough that even if the keep is lost, the attackers will have lost their will. Even when 2x or 3x outnumbered. Of course, if you run one by one in hoping to be a hero, you will get farmed. One person on the oil is useless. But if people are also firing mortars and trebs at the same time, while another comes in with a dragon banner from behind, then suddenly it's much harder to pay attention to one individual thing and maybe the oil is a better distraction. This is called tactics. It is much better than praying to the Anet gods in the hopes that they will save you. Because they won't.

    I would be more than willing to teach the art of siege humping, even though I didn't realize it was that hard. Of course, I won't, because that's bad for the game mode. You see, criticism is not allowed in a game like this and is branded as "tOXIC", so I'll just say everyone deserves a pat on the head and a "nice job, at least you tried" comment.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2020

    The amount of times yesterday I saw the random pug defenders on my team be pretty brain dead about how to defend/delay a zerg at a keep, or even properly scout, and then complain about attacker's numbers was just painful. The best was seeing red dots get into a T3 tower and no defender bothered to use the invulnerable walls tactic but map chat was full of complaints at the tag for not responding. It feels like the everyone is devolving, but only on my team of course, because the other team's defenders knew at least how to use supply traps to delay our zerg.

    This thread is giving me bad flashbacks to yesterday.

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So complain about attackers having all the advantage, and then the solution is to just take away all structures? ok.... makes sense... I guess...

    Need to be smarter when defending and not an idiot looking over the lip of the wall looking to pew pew some random in front of the zerg cause it does absolutely nothing to them, the only reason you should be on wall is to try and disable. You are meant to delay behind structures until your own side shows up in force to defend from another force, if people don't show up to defend you're meant to lose the structure.

    If you think 1-5 person should be able to completely defend against 25+ then you need to take a moment and rethink what wvw is, and whether you're on the ground or on the wall you can't expect to stand right in front of a zerg and survive, maybe you're playing firebrand and think you're some sort of combat god, but you're not. Almost every attack area in the game has a counter defense, learn them, use them, and stop coming in here complaining a zerg killed you on a wall.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther
    Wvw doesn't need more gold rewards it needs more gold sinks - WvW Forum

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    I would be more than willing to teach the art of siege humping, even though I didn't realize it was that hard. Of course, I won't, because that's bad for the game mode. You see, criticism is not allowed in a game like this and is branded as "tOXIC", so I'll just say everyone deserves a pat on the head and a "nice job, at least you tried" comment.

    I got a random person mad at me yesterday for suggesting in chat that they should build a treb to counter a treb at NWT that was hitting garrison. You see, they just wanted more friendly numbers, which weren't available. Suddenly I'm the toxic one.

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    5 people with properly placed siege at hand, a fully upgraded objective and the right Tactivators ( eg. Invulnerable Fortification, Dragon Banner, Emergency Waypoint, etc. ) can delay a map Q sized blob for a minimum of 5 minutes, with Invulnerable Fortification providing a minute of that time. Getting through a T3'd wall or gate takes quite a while if it's heavily defended by Catapults, Trebuchets and/or Arrow Carts as well as Siege Disablers if at least 2 of the defenders are using them. The attacking force will eventually get inside if they're co-ordinated, but a less co-ordinated PUG can be pushed off relatively easily.

    Siege and Tactivators are there to buy time until more defenders can respond and to provide a substantial advantage in outnumbered situations. These things allow a much smaller group to significantly delay or even stop an attacking force, but can be overcome with persistence if the defenders don't have the numbers to respond.

    You cannot sit inside an objective with a mountain of siege between you and the enemy expecting to be untouchable. If it were possible to protect an objective indefinitely regardless of the size of the attacking force, nothing would ever flip, no one would leave their towers, and no one would play WvW.

    Defenses are far too strong as is but because the vast majority of players only participate in two roles; zerging or afk on siege in towers, complaints like this arise where people think

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    anything that blocks their karma train or involves thought isn't welcome.

    Which implies, what? That sitting in a tower on siege is a complex and engaging task? Have you ever noticed how often people prefer to use Catapults over Rams? Probably because rams are usually suicide unless you have a literal map Q that can insta-build 5 rams before anyone can respond. In which case, good for them because no one was scouting and instead relying on passive upgrades ( Watch Tower ) to do the job for them while they pip farm AFK at spawn.

    ye good luck.. 5 people vs zone blob.
    dunno what kind of zone blobs u have in NA but in EU if zone blob wants to go inside ur tower/keep they will go in nothing will stop them.
    your doors/walls will melt in matter of seconds.

  • cobbah.3102cobbah.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    So complain about attackers having all the advantage, and then the solution is to just take away all structures? ok.... makes sense... I guess...

    Need to be smarter when defending and not an idiot looking over the lip of the wall looking to pew pew some random in front of the zerg cause it does absolutely nothing to them, the only reason you should be on wall is to try and disable. You are meant to delay behind structures until your own side shows up in force to defend from another force, if people don't show up to defend you're meant to lose the structure.

    If you think 1-5 person should be able to completely defend against 25+ then you need to take a moment and rethink what wvw is, and whether you're on the ground or on the wall you can't expect to stand right in front of a zerg and survive, maybe you're playing firebrand and think you're some sort of combat god, but you're not. Almost every attack area in the game has a counter defense, learn them, use them, and stop coming in here complaining a zerg killed you on a wall.

    Hmm didn't say I was on a wall ,just stating facts how ridiculous the game is now venting is good for the soul ,I do the siege thing yada yada yada etc etc etc ,all the zerglings offering advice yes i know the full servers fill everything with seige they know how to defend with thier map queue.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    The amount of times yesterday I saw the random pug defenders on my team be pretty brain dead about how to defend/delay a zerg at a keep, or even properly scout, and then complain about attacker's numbers was just painful. The best was seeing red dots get into a T3 tower and no defender bothered to use the invulnerable walls tactic but map chat was full of complaints at the tag for not responding. It feels like the everyone is devolving, but only on my team of course, because the other team's defenders knew at least how to use supply traps to delay our zerg.

    This thread is giving me bad flashbacks to yesterday.

    How could we or anet help to educated new players about this stuff? I know when I started was hesitant to use things like tactivators out of fear of misusing those resources.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Don't care if it was you or not on a wall, I'm saying in general to everyone, don't dance on top of a wall in front of a zerg and expect to live, play smarter and stop complaining about attackers hitting people on a wall, if walls were meant to absolutely protect you they would have been made to do so, they could easily raise walls to be higher than 1200 range so that only seige can hit below, but obviously after 7 years they haven't done so, there is meant to be counterplay in the game, learn them use them.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs - Thieves
    There's no power creep you just don't recognize more people hitting you - Flat Earther
    Wvw doesn't need more gold rewards it needs more gold sinks - WvW Forum

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2020

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    The amount of times yesterday I saw the random pug defenders on my team be pretty brain dead about how to defend/delay a zerg at a keep, or even properly scout, and then complain about attacker's numbers was just painful. The best was seeing red dots get into a T3 tower and no defender bothered to use the invulnerable walls tactic but map chat was full of complaints at the tag for not responding. It feels like the everyone is devolving, but only on my team of course, because the other team's defenders knew at least how to use supply traps to delay our zerg.

    This thread is giving me bad flashbacks to yesterday.

    How could we or anet help to educated new players about this stuff? I know when I started was hesitant to use things like tactivators out of fear of misusing those resources.

    Aside from whatever players write on guides and wikis for it, it has to be an Anet provided solution. Veteran players get tired after so many years of reteaching. That isn't something players signed on to do. It's been proposed in the past that there should be some sort of WvW tutorial like sPvP has. But such a thing may also become outdated. The game already provides tooltips explaining what the tactics do when you hover over them in the Objectives Upgrade ui.

    Really it's also on the new player to find out this stuff for themselves. It isn't like there were guides when veteran players were learning. A lot of things are from experience. The dirty truth is some people just want someone else to lead them to the water while other people find a joy in self-guided experimentation to learn.

    But also I'm pretty sure that the defenders yesterday who took offense at when I made useful suggestions were not new players.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    LOL. Just 1 hour ago I was defending my EBG keep cus YB was rushing it with 5-6 golems. I was pew pewing from inside wall, slowly chipping their golems down with aoe and rf / aa. I wasn't the only one defending. But we still won the fight and they never got our inner gate below 60%.

    Do you think it's ok a single person should be able to defend vs 10 people? 2 people?
    That's something we have to think about.

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Zexanima.7851 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:
    The amount of times yesterday I saw the random pug defenders on my team be pretty brain dead about how to defend/delay a zerg at a keep, or even properly scout, and then complain about attacker's numbers was just painful. The best was seeing red dots get into a T3 tower and no defender bothered to use the invulnerable walls tactic but map chat was full of complaints at the tag for not responding. It feels like the everyone is devolving, but only on my team of course, because the other team's defenders knew at least how to use supply traps to delay our zerg.

    This thread is giving me bad flashbacks to yesterday.

    How could we or anet help to educated new players about this stuff? I know when I started was hesitant to use things like tactivators out of fear of misusing those resources.

    Aside from whatever players write on guides and wikis for it, it has to be an Anet provided solution. Veteran players get tired after so many years of reteaching. That isn't something players signed on to do. It's been proposed in the past that there should be some sort of WvW tutorial like sPvP has. But such a thing may also become outdated. The game already provides tooltips explaining what the tactics do when you hover over them in the Objectives Upgrade ui.

    Really it's also on the new player to find out this stuff for themselves. It isn't like there were guides when veteran players were learning. A lot of things are from experience. The dirty truth is some people just want someone else to lead them to the water while other people find a joy in self-guided experimentation to learn.

    But also I'm pretty sure that the defenders yesterday who took offense at when I made useful suggestions were not new players.

    An in-game guide would be a start at least. It could be general enough as to avoid needing be changed per-update. Not everyone is good at just figuring it out but would still enjoy the mode. There are a lot of non-hardcore gamers that play this game that I think would enjoy WvW if they had an easy way to learn it. For example, my spouse would have never even considered WvW on her own had I not shown her the way around it but now she loves it.

    As for experienced players being dinks, can't really do much about that.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Bassdeff.1895Bassdeff.1895 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it's alright for the most part but I think the heart of the problem is the power creep the game mode has suffered. Where you once could stand there with a few buffs and fire off a couple shots of AC or balista you now get rewarded with insta-death. Also, some skills have ridiculously sized AoE. I mean when you can destroy and AC placed on the hut on the other side of the wall without even being able to see said AC , and hut for that matter, something is broken.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2020

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    I would be more than willing to teach the art of siege humping, even though I didn't realize it was that hard. Of course, I won't, because that's bad for the game mode. You see, criticism is not allowed in a game like this and is branded as "tOXIC", so I'll just say everyone deserves a pat on the head and a "nice job, at least you tried" comment.

    I got a random person mad at me yesterday for suggesting in chat that they should build a treb to counter a treb at NWT that was hitting garrison. You see, they just wanted more friendly numbers, which weren't available. Suddenly I'm the toxic one.

    Sounds like the same players that go halp they're in lords room without saying who or what or how many. :lol:

    I also love it when people ping/tell us about stuff that's been lost and then rage about it.... oh gee, we're sorta past that point aren't we?

    As a side note I wonder how many objectives have been lost due to too many false alarms causing people to stop caring.

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    But also I'm pretty sure that the defenders yesterday who took offense at when I made useful suggestions were not new players.

    I do think those are the worst. New players have an excuse; these people refuse to learn and need to get carried.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    easy solution, make all players and siege invulnerable until the attacker is inside the structure, and can attack them. Or make the

    Then if the attackers are as good as they think they are (I emphasize the work think here), there would be no problem, they'd still simply avoid the defense, break down the gate or walls, go in and kill the defenders anyway, so there is really no problem here if Anet implements it.

    On the flip side of this, we really don't want certain servers siege-abusing their towers/keeps up anymore than they do. There are 2 servers in particular that are major offenders at this (avoid fights and siege cap their structures).

    Those of you whom are having trouble defending, get good at using a dragon banner, it's by far the best defense. Beats siege any day. Nothing seems to irritate attackers more than repeatedly destroying their siege with a dragon banner when it's just you defending against their map que. Part of getting good at it is having the proper class grab it. Don't be the player whose running say a spellbreaker, firebrand, or scourge and grabs it; mine as well just hand the structure and the battle over to the enemy.

  • Dont worry! alliance update is coming! ;D ...

    "it has been 84 years.jpg"

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Remove all siege except oil and rams, limit rams to 3 on a gate (where they can only hit the gate if the oil can hit them).
    Only siege damage contests structures.
    Make it so that all weapon skills require a target to cast. Now attackers and defenders have an equal chance (because now ALL weapon skills require line of sight).
    No more attackers painting walls with aoes (because they need a target and LOS to cast it, no more defender siege advantage inside - not that it really existed).

    I could go on with the other suggestions, but this post was only talking about siege and walls, so I'll stop here for now.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    Remove all siege except oil and rams, limit rams to 3 on a gate (where they can only hit the gate if the oil can hit them).
    Only siege damage contests structures.
    Make it so that all weapon skills require a target to cast. Now attackers and defenders have an equal chance (because now ALL weapon skills require line of sight).
    No more attackers painting walls with aoes (because they need a target and LOS to cast it, no more defender siege advantage inside - not that it really existed).

    I could go on with the other suggestions, but this post was only talking about siege and walls, so I'll stop here for now.

    Or...

    You could just not stand on the walls.

    It's the exact same thing after all. The argument here is that standing on the walls is death and gives the attacker the advantage. So why even do it? What's the point? What are you trying to do there? If you're standing inside the wall not attacking someone outside the wall... you have that exact equal situation you seek. They cant attack you, you cant attack them. Equal.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

  • @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    I think a part of the issue here is different hours of activity and people feeling they shouldn't lose everything when they have no one online.

    I can understand the frustration of losing and feeling like there's no way to fight back, but in situations like those, people need to remind themselves that they can always come back later if they don't want to deal with it, or they can fight the good fight. Just because you're facing overwhelming numbers doesn't mean you should lay down and let the enemy roll you. Have fun with combat and enjoy the battle while it lasts.

    For me, I love being outnumbered. It's fun because I don't have to go far to find a fight and I enjoy having to devise strategies to deal with fast responses from a massive group. I totally understand how it kills morale for some, but those people need to learn that the only way to truly lose is to give up.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma/Anvil Rock | Diamond Legend
    Nothing worth having comes easy ... ♫

  • Timelord.8190Timelord.8190 Member ✭✭✭

    You know the defenders got all the advantages the attackers have and more. You got the closest spawn, guild objective aura, walls, and more siege and supply. It's the defender's advantage that is too strong. Anet should nerf the defender's advantage, not buff it for people that can't play.

    My YT- channel: Toxilo

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    I think the problem the OP has (and several others), which I somewhat agree with, is it should take more than 25 seconds to take a T3 tower. More than 1 minute to take a T3 keep. Regardless of how many people were attacking or defending. Groups that know what they are doing can do that, from siege drop to flip, 25 seconds is ridiculous, especially since it likely took 2 hours or more to get the structure to T3. If you're lucky you might get a chance to use invulnerable, but in NA, it's almost always trolled right before the attack. Siege disablers are blocked because good groups are just that, and not every class has the option to make their attacks unblockable before trying to throw a disable. I totally agree that the structure should be lost, but the time to enter and flip is exactly what the ktrain blobs asked for and it's far too low. There needs to be a middle ground.

    Those numbers are not rly a thing, a full t3 keep takes more than 1 mimute to take, even when empty. Not to mention that structual invuln already is 1 whole minute when activated lol

  • Sure you could build a bunch of omegas and sit on shield gens for hours blocking the bots and their treb fire. Or you could build a bunch of omegas and shield gens to take a keep in under a minute.

    Hey ya know what people don't like spending an afternoon pressing 3 on a shield gen. People don't like doing callouts and falling back all day while waiting for the nonexistent backup to arrive.

    People end up stacking to avoid the 20 hour cycle of watching the bandwagon walk by.

    Servers and map cap abuse are what needs changed.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    I think the problem the OP has (and several others), which I somewhat agree with, is it should take more than 25 seconds to take a T3 tower. More than 1 minute to take a T3 keep. Regardless of how many people were attacking or defending. Groups that know what they are doing can do that, from siege drop to flip, 25 seconds is ridiculous, especially since it likely took 2 hours or more to get the structure to T3. If you're lucky you might get a chance to use invulnerable, but in NA, it's almost always trolled right before the attack. Siege disablers are blocked because good groups are just that, and not every class has the option to make their attacks unblockable before trying to throw a disable. I totally agree that the structure should be lost, but the time to enter and flip is exactly what the ktrain blobs asked for and it's far too low. There needs to be a middle ground.

    Those numbers are not rly a thing, a full t3 keep takes more than 1 mimute to take, even when empty. Not to mention that structual invuln already is 1 whole minute when activated lol

    Not sure where you play or when, but those numbers are not something I made up. T3 towers are flipped before the swords even pop on it (which is 30 seconds). So we started timing certain megablobs, a T3 tower can be flipped in 25 seconds, from the second siege is dropped to the lord is dead. 25 whole seconds. It was only 45 seconds before all the crying T3 stuff was too hard to take, and anet agreed with the server hopping (paid gem transfer) superblobs, who just want to fight doors. Some T3 keeps require almost no time to flip. You can flip T3 hills in 50 seconds from siege drop to flip...if you are good, and know what you are doing. It should not be that easy, even if everyone is asleep.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • RedShark.9548RedShark.9548 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    I think the problem the OP has (and several others), which I somewhat agree with, is it should take more than 25 seconds to take a T3 tower. More than 1 minute to take a T3 keep. Regardless of how many people were attacking or defending. Groups that know what they are doing can do that, from siege drop to flip, 25 seconds is ridiculous, especially since it likely took 2 hours or more to get the structure to T3. If you're lucky you might get a chance to use invulnerable, but in NA, it's almost always trolled right before the attack. Siege disablers are blocked because good groups are just that, and not every class has the option to make their attacks unblockable before trying to throw a disable. I totally agree that the structure should be lost, but the time to enter and flip is exactly what the ktrain blobs asked for and it's far too low. There needs to be a middle ground.

    Those numbers are not rly a thing, a full t3 keep takes more than 1 mimute to take, even when empty. Not to mention that structual invuln already is 1 whole minute when activated lol

    Not sure where you play or when, but those numbers are not something I made up. T3 towers are flipped before the swords even pop on it (which is 30 seconds). So we started timing certain megablobs, a T3 tower can be flipped in 25 seconds, from the second siege is dropped to the lord is dead. 25 whole seconds. It was only 45 seconds before all the crying T3 stuff was too hard to take, and anet agreed with the server hopping (paid gem transfer) superblobs, who just want to fight doors. Some T3 keeps require almost no time to flip. You can flip T3 hills in 50 seconds from siege drop to flip...if you are good, and know what you are doing. It should not be that easy, even if everyone is asleep.

    Guess they dont karmatrain as hard, or atleast not when im online, i was never on a map with low amount of ppl where a keep was flipped that quick. That zerg must have been full dps to bust through gates and burst down a lord, so they didnt expect any competition anyways.
    Honestly i dont even care, if they are that many and you have nobody, well, why hinder their ktrain... Even if it took them 5 minutes then, would it change anything, if you still had nothing to fend them off?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    I think the problem the OP has (and several others), which I somewhat agree with, is it should take more than 25 seconds to take a T3 tower. More than 1 minute to take a T3 keep. Regardless of how many people were attacking or defending. Groups that know what they are doing can do that, from siege drop to flip, 25 seconds is ridiculous, especially since it likely took 2 hours or more to get the structure to T3. If you're lucky you might get a chance to use invulnerable, but in NA, it's almost always trolled right before the attack. Siege disablers are blocked because good groups are just that, and not every class has the option to make their attacks unblockable before trying to throw a disable. I totally agree that the structure should be lost, but the time to enter and flip is exactly what the ktrain blobs asked for and it's far too low. There needs to be a middle ground.

    Those numbers are not rly a thing, a full t3 keep takes more than 1 mimute to take, even when empty. Not to mention that structual invuln already is 1 whole minute when activated lol

    Not sure where you play or when, but those numbers are not something I made up. T3 towers are flipped before the swords even pop on it (which is 30 seconds). So we started timing certain megablobs, a T3 tower can be flipped in 25 seconds, from the second siege is dropped to the lord is dead. 25 whole seconds. It was only 45 seconds before all the crying T3 stuff was too hard to take, and anet agreed with the server hopping (paid gem transfer) superblobs, who just want to fight doors. Some T3 keeps require almost no time to flip. You can flip T3 hills in 50 seconds from siege drop to flip...if you are good, and know what you are doing. It should not be that easy, even if everyone is asleep.

    Why shouldnt it be that easy, if no one defends it and no one scouts it? Would it matter if it took 25 seconds or 2.5 minutes? No it wouldnt. Which is why it's pointless to argue that "crying over T3 stuff being to hard to take" impact this. It had heavy impact on smallscale but for your "superblobs", the objective is still capped because the defending server failed at stopping that "superblob".

    In a realistic and every day WvW scenario a T3 keep when defended can take hours to cap. Hell I've seen zergs spend 2 hours on it and still not cap it when they give up trying. T3 towers arent far behind, anything less than 20+ generally dont even bother because of the time it takes.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    It was only 45 seconds before all the crying T3 stuff was too hard to take, and anet agreed with the server hopping (paid gem transfer) superblobs, who just want to fight doors. Some T3 keeps require almost no time to flip. You can flip T3 hills in 50 seconds from siege drop to flip...if you are good, and know what you are doing. It should not be that easy, even if everyone is asleep.

    Because the worst would be to balance sieges on 50v1 situations rather than 50v50. If your server doesn't have enough people playing to defend, keeps will flip and so what?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2020

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Ubi.4136 said:
    It was only 45 seconds before all the crying T3 stuff was too hard to take, and anet agreed with the server hopping (paid gem transfer) superblobs, who just want to fight doors. Some T3 keeps require almost no time to flip. You can flip T3 hills in 50 seconds from siege drop to flip...if you are good, and know what you are doing. It should not be that easy, even if everyone is asleep.

    Because the worst would be to balance sieges on 50v1 situations rather than 50v50. If your server doesn't have enough people playing to defend, keeps will flip and so what?

    Keeps flip anyway, atacker just need to keep pushing and bug LoS with ac’s, rangers and eles, to clear any siege, mesmers scourges and fb will pull masses of players from the wall to outside and ok.

    Thats how u win Zerg gameplay, but problem is that people only fight IF the take is a ktraintake to avoid effort,

    There’s also the situation of players builds, where the server with less scourges will be wiped easilly, but that is another topic due classes in this game are made for awfull players feel happy with overperformance moments.

    Gw2 is lame up and glitch cause it’s legal to win....

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    The problem is the lack of population. Anet never implemented an actual scaling to siege damage so if you´re outnumbered by a lot, the enemy will dominate the map without you being able to do anything. These weeks with such linking were horrible, though the outnumbered buff was quite nice due to it being available almost permanently.

    Anyway, the population-issue is nothing that can actually be fixed without new influx of new players and Anet putting an end to server-hopping

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You should just be able to sit on arrow carts all day

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:

    @cobbah.3102 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Much bigger toxic group ftw as most servers use , zergling mentality rules. Pffft

    Dude... Even in reallife you could take big castles with a much bigger army. All you want it to be is untakable structures to hide behind.
    Honestly at what point would it be acceptable to take an objective in your opinion? If no defender is there at all?

    @Arzurag.7506 said:

    @RedShark.9548 said:
    As if warclaw wasnt good enough for defenders to roll in en masse.
    How long do you want to keep away a far bigger zerg?
    Right now you have more than enough tools to slow them down for your reinforcememts to arrive. You have no reinforcements? Well you should lose it to a much bigger group then.

    Well, you can´t defend if there´s no defender or rather it´s pointlessto delay the inevitable when there are no reinforcements.

    As it should be... If you have no reinforcements and cant hold it against a much bigger blob, then you should lose it.
    Same question to you.
    When exactly is it acceptable to take a structure in your opinion? If there is no scout, not a single defender?

    You all make it seem like it should be impossible to take a keep, as long as there is atleast 1 person inside...

    The problem is the lack of population. Anet never implemented an actual scaling to siege damage so if you´re outnumbered by a lot, the enemy will dominate the map without you being able to do anything. These weeks with such linking were horrible, though the outnumbered buff was quite nice due to it being available almost permanently.

    Anyway, the population-issue is nothing that can actually be fixed without new influx of new players and Anet putting an end to server-hopping

    Tell me about it.. When people see 60+ group on one team, 10 on the other team and maybe a handful on the poor red servers they seem to think its proper somehow..

    Like im going to play CoD or battlefront when I know everyone is on a single team and its locked to any balancing.. heh yeah right.