Do people not know that... — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Revenant

Do people not know that...

You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

Comments

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Idk idc hehe

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Mark down another nerf in the upcoming balance patch

    The Commander will end you.

  • @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    How exactly?

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @Virtuality.8351 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    How exactly?

    It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

    Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

    Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

    Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

    Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:
    3 second duration - 5 people
    6 second duration - 10 people
    9 second duration - 15 people
    12 second duration - 20 people

    So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

    This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

    Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

  • zaswer.5246zaswer.5246 Member ✭✭✭

    So for example ,in raid, would it work the same way if you were in a third subgroup?
    I mean 2 groups with the usual stuff and a third group with you alone , would the boons and assasin facet of nature work the same way?

  • Arkaile.5604Arkaile.5604 Member ✭✭✭

    So, it's possible but so extraordinarily difficult to pull off that there's no point to even trying. Got it.

    It is a funny thing to think about, though. The only way I could see this working is if someone set up a bot to move a rev through each sub-group of a squad between pulses. I'm sure it would end with a temporary ban for the player(s) using this and a permanent nerf of some sort for rev.

    SHINIES!

  • Omnicron.2467Omnicron.2467 Member ✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Virtuality.8351 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    How exactly?

    It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

    Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

    Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

    Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

    Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:
    3 second duration - 5 people
    6 second duration - 10 people
    9 second duration - 15 people
    12 second duration - 20 people

    So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

    This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

    Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

    Are you saying that the game will always give boons to the players who did not receive them in the previous pulse? I always thought the 5 people who get the boons would be random in a subgroup of 20, so you can theoretically give everyone boons but only if the pulse chooses the 5 players you want every time?

  • @Arkaile.5604 said:
    So, it's possible but so extraordinarily difficult to pull off that there's no point to even trying. Got it.

    It’s really not hard at all. In WvW, your more or less going to cover large amounts of people because of how random the movement is between all players are. So long as you aren’t lagging way behind or something, the boons will almost always attach to different players every time.

  • @Omnicron.2467 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Virtuality.8351 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    How exactly?

    It has to do with the nature of pulsing abilities, and it’s relationship to subgroups

    Let’s say for example I have an untraited facet of light on passive mode, and it has a pretend duration of 3 second regeneration. Since the ability pulses every 3 seconds, the ability will apply regeneration to 5 people...no matter how hard I try or whatever configuration I have set up, it will always apply its effect on 5 individuals at any given time.

    Following this, let’s say we add some concentration so that our regeneration duration has been increase to 9 seconds. If I am in a subgroup of 5 people, regeneration will pulse every 3 seconds, stacking in 9 second intervals, but it will still only pulse on those same 5 individuals cause we are in a subgroup with them (subgroup buff prioritization)

    Now let’s say we are in our own subgroup in a 20 man squad. Every pulse of regeneration effects 5 people, but each time, based on your relative position to others, will effect a new set of 5 different people with each pulse. Thus the higher the duration of regeneration, the more people you will be able to effect at any given time.

    Assuming your boons pulse every 3 seconds:
    3 second duration - 5 people
    6 second duration - 10 people
    9 second duration - 15 people
    12 second duration - 20 people

    So you pulse: 5 people get 12 seconds of regeneration. On the next pulse those 5 people have 9 seconds of regeneration left, and the new pulse effects a different set of 5 people for 12 seconds. And so at any given moment you will have 5 people with 12 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 9 seconds of regen left, 5 people with 6 seconds of regen left and so on...

    This effect is expedited when the target number of allies is bigger...so Draconic Echo follows the same pattern except it’s 10,20,30... and so on.

    Theoretically 40 people is the ultimate maximum for regeneration since it’s duration can last at most 10 seconds...but it’s not just regeneration that this works on. The same thing can be done with Protection, Fury, Swiftness, Might...and every pulsing area of effect buff that can last longer than it’s pulse interval, that you can think of on any class.

    Are you saying that the game will always give boons to the players who did not receive them in the previous pulse? I always thought the 5 people who get the boons would be random in a subgroup of 20, so you can theoretically give everyone boons but only if the pulse chooses the 5 players you want every time?

    So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

    In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

  • @zaswer.5246 said:
    So for example ,in raid, would it work the same way if you were in a third subgroup?
    I mean 2 groups with the usual stuff and a third group with you alone , would the boons and assasin facet of nature work the same way?

    The Facets of Nature are a bit trickier, I would have to look into their exact behavior before I say anything about them

    But boons applied through those facet passives however, does indeed work in the manner described...so ya, if you wanted to run a boon rev that used compassion instead of draconic echo or something, you would grab some boon duration long enough to keep it on 10 allies, be in your own subgroup or have the whole squad be merged into a 10 man squad and that’s pretty much it. I don’t really raid so I can’t say if stacking on tag is common there, but the further spread out your party is the harder it is for you to blanket the whole squad properly.

  • Its pretty well known in wvw, revs give squads perma swiftness, fury, and 25 might. Regen is ok if the rev is built for healing power, but there isnt really a need for more than 1-2 support revs in a 50 man squad, and in smaller squads its better to have another fb or scrapper. Protection is usually just a nice bonus since the elite is typically used for superspeed/cc on pushes.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

    In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

    This is true but not the whole truth and has been stated multiple time how it works by developers.

    Boons prioritize allies by:
    1) sub group. If an ally in subgroup is not in range:
    2) squad (by proximity). If an ally in squad is not in range:
    3) Team/ally (by proximity). If an ally is not in range:
    4) Pet/summon (by proximity; ranger pets/mesmer clones etc): if those aren't in range:
    5) NPC (by proximity)

    So yes you are correct boon prioritize by proximity but what you exempt is that, regardless of whether or not an ally already has that boon, it will re-apply to that ally anyways.

    Boons like regen that stack in duration also have stack caps (5; with the exception of swiftness which caps at 9 stacks). Reapplying the boon while at the maximum number of stacks will overwrite the stack with the lowest duration.

    So for example, having 15 seconds of Protection (5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1) and reapplying with one that lasts 10 seconds will replace the stack that lasts 1 second, increasing the duration to 24 seconds). This is the explanation for the phenomena where you have a boon applied to you, but the duration doesn't increase by the expected amount, and in some cases, decreases it since the game has to take the new application one way or another (e.g. 10+9+8+7+6 for 40s, and applying 1s will override the 6s stack).

    Because this system exists we know that boon will over ride themselves, therefore we know the boons will always obey the priority stated above, therefore you can never buff 30-40 people in a squad, even given the realistic scenario of fluctuating proximity of allies. Your argument is based on the idea that boons will not override themselves, and this is not true.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Stacking_in_duration
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Boon#Boon_distribution_priority
    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Boon-Healing-Priority/first#post5819356

    Edit for the circumstance that you are not in squad:

    Facet of Darkness (fury) is 3s base @ 3s intervals. With 100% boon duration this 6s, or 2 applications before the first application runs out. Therefore, even if youre not in a squad, and have perfectly 10 new allies every 3 seconds, you can only apply boons to a maximum of 20 players (2 applications * 10 players per application) permanently with Draconic Echo.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2020

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    So to be clear, the people who get the boons are based on what’s called “proximity priority” so based on your location relative to other players, will determine who gets the boons.

    In WvW, the positions of players in squads are constantly fluctuating to the point where it can essentially be considered random... and a pulse will almost always be picking a different set of people each time.

    This is true but not the whole truth and has been stated multiple time how it works by developers.

    Boons prioritize allies by:
    1) sub group. If an ally in subgroup is not in range:
    2) squad (by proximity). If an ally in squad is not in range:
    3) Team/ally (by proximity). If an ally is not in range:
    4) Pet/summon (by proximity; ranger pets/mesmer clones etc): if those aren't in range:
    5) NPC (by proximity)

    So yes you are correct boon prioritize by proximity but what you exempt is that, regardless of whether or not an ally already has that boon, it will re-apply to that ally anyways.

    That’s if you are in a subgroup...if you aren’t in a subgroup it will go by proximity priority. There is a chance it can reapply a boon, but it’s not very often.

    Boons like regen that stack in duration also have stack caps (5; with the exception of swiftness which caps at 9 stacks). Reapplying the boon while at the maximum number of stacks will overwrite the stack with the lowest duration.
    So for example, having 15 seconds of Protection (5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1) and reapplying with one that lasts 10 seconds will replace the stack that lasts 1 second, increasing the duration to 24 seconds). This is the explanation for the phenomena where you have a boon applied to you, but the duration doesn't increase by the expected amount, and in some cases, decreases it since the game has to take the new application one way or another (e.g. 10+9+8+7+6 for 40s, and applying 1s will override the 6s stack).

    Because this system exists we know that boon will over ride themselves, therefore we know the boons will always obey the priority stated above, therefore you can never buff 30-40 people in a squad,

    This is just not a correct conclusion. Boons override themselves specifically when you are in a subgroup with other people, where the target limit of the skill is the same as the number of people in the group. If you are in a group of 5 members and you use an ability that targets 10 people, 5 of the abilities targets prioritize the subgroup your in, and the remaining 5 are given to proximity from your position within the rest of your squad, which is always subject to change based on distances between you and other players.

    This has already been throughly tested and works in this manner. You can even test it for yourself.

    Edit for the circumstance that you are not in squad:

    Facet of Darkness (fury) is 3s base @ 3s intervals. With 100% boon duration this 6s, or 2 applications before the first application runs out. Therefore, even if youre not in a squad, and have perfectly 10 new allies every 3 seconds, you can only apply boons to a maximum of 20 players (2 applications * 10 players per application) permanently with Draconic Echo.

    And this is where you kinda proved yourself wrong because you can get a longer duration with Fury via Facet of Nature Glint, and if you notice it will be able to apply up to 30 people with draconic (it’s actually 27 because the application always includes yourself as one of the allies)

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    ok boonbot

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

    Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btw
    and the passive is kitten. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

    (Sidenote: It may sound like an good thing but tbh boon herald isnt a real thing regarding to those "boongiving features", since everyone can provide themselves with those boons, or through other allies as side effect.)

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @The Ace.9105 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

    It's not a theory. And has nothing really to do with max boon duration. I've already explained enough how it works, and now you have to figure it out on your own. Not gonna baby-sit you and hold your hand for something you can just test right now in game yourself.

    Put on some concentration gear, go to wvw and zerg around in your own sub-squad and actually look at how many boons you can maintain on people at any given time...just go and do and observe for yourself.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @The Ace.9105 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    You can maintain your boons on glint on up to at least 30-40 people at any given time via Draconic Echo, not just 10.

    You can also maintain all boons on 15-20 at any given instant on people without Draconic Echo so that you can take Compassion instead.

    Do people know this or is this news to most revenants? Seems like not many people knew that was a possibility.

    You do understand that maximum boon duration is 100%, right? Have you confirmed your theory and if you have can you post a video about it?

    It's not a theory. And has nothing really to do with max boon duration. I've already explained enough how it works, and now you have to figure it out on your own. Not gonna baby-sit you and hold your hand for something you can just test right now in game yourself.

    Put on some concentration gear, go to wvw and zerg around in your own sub-squad and actually look at how many boons you can maintain on people at any given time...just go and do and observe for yourself.

    Your theory would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse interval and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s. I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

  • @Virdo.1540 said:
    May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

    Not really...if you want to keep 5 man subsquads, you just put yourself in your own subgroup.

    Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btw

    Not really sure i follow what you mean by this. The whole idea is not about hitting the same people over again...it's about maintaining boons and buffs on as many people as possible.

    and the passive is kitten. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

    Also not really sure what this means...You need to explain in precise detail what you are talking about. are you talking about FON? The original topic is about boons on glint passives, not facet of nature.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    May be this case, but first: this would mean people need to be seperated (for wvw example) into one big subgroup, which would ruin the teamcomp through firebrand and scourge priorization.

    Also you would have to be sure to hit the "buffed" people once again immediatly with FoN, while this only hits 5ppl btw
    and the passive is kitten. So the maximum amount of hit people is 22, if everything goes as wished.

    (Sidenote: It may sound like an good thing but tbh boon herald isnt a real thing regarding to those "boongiving features", since everyone can provide themselves with those boons, or through other allies as side effect.)

    It seems he hasn't realized or doesn't have the game knowledge of max boon duration being 100% which means that you'd pulse the boons for max 6 seconds and regen for 8s and might for 24s.

  • @The Ace.9105 said:

    Your theory

    again it's not a theory...

    ...would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse interval

    Yes that's exactly how that works...and it's not a hard thing to do...people move around all the time, and so do you...have you been in a wvw zerg before?

    and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s.

    Max duration has NOTHING to do with this, i dont know why people keep bringing it up, and also getting it wrong anyway. you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant. The longer the duration of the boon is in comparison to the pulse interval, the more people can be maintained. I explained this already.

    I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

    I have played like this for years on tempest, since the same thing applies for them as well. It's actually you who hasn't done any research or the math or any tests. I've extensively tested these things over and over to make sure i understood how they worked, even with the very little information about these mechanics out there.

    Ball's in your court now buddy...can't hold your hand anymore. go and look into it on your own time.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @The Ace.9105 said:

    Your theory

    again it's not a theory...

    ...would need ppl to change the distance to you in the boon pulse interval

    Yes that's exactly how that works...and it's not a hard thing to do...people move around all the time, and so do you...have you been in a wvw zerg before?

    and even with that the max duration of the pulse boons outside of might and regen is 6s and regen 8s while might is 24s.

    Max duration has NOTHING to do with this, i dont know why people keep bringing it up, and also getting it wrong anyway. you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant. The longer the duration of the boon is in comparison to the pulse interval, the more people can be maintained. I explained this already.

    I'd kinda suggest you to do the same since it's a thing you are trying to say is possible to do but it feels like you haven't thought it through with tests and if it actually works.

    I have played like this for years on tempest, since the same thing applies for them as well. It's actually you who hasn't done any research or the math or any tests. I've extensively tested these things over and over to make sure i understood how they worked, even with the very little information about these mechanics out there.

    Ball's in your court now buddy...can't hold your hand anymore. go and look into it on your own time.

    Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2. Even with 120% boon duration if it would be possible you'd only have barely 9s of regen. The boon duration has everything to do with upkeeping as you said "all the boons". You just simply can't keep all the boons on 40 ppl with 1 herald and that's simply a fact. If that would be the case then why doesn't raids just run 1 perma all boons herald?

    Moving in the zerg is constant and you shift the pulses yes but it might be 1 person who gets the boons multiple times and 1 who gets them only once or twice so that random boon giving isn't really giving you anything.

    If you are just simply talking about pulsing boons every 3s to different ppl then yeah, that's true but upkeeping those boons on all of the ppl is not happening since even in your theory you used 12 second boon duration that never happens with max boon duration if you don't count might that goes to max 24 seconds 1 stack/pulse.

  • @The Ace.9105 said:
    Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2.

    Nope
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facet_of_Nature—Dragon
    "Gives a flat +20% duration to any boons applied to you, regardless of the source. Can go above the boon duration cap allowing up to +120% boon duration."
    Like i said, you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant.

  • The Ace.9105The Ace.9105 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @The Ace.9105 said:
    Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2.

    Nope
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facet_of_Nature—Dragon
    "Gives a flat +20% duration to any boons applied to you, regardless of the source. Can go above the boon duration cap allowing up to +120% boon duration."
    Like i said, you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant.

    Even so you'd still get only 8,8s of regen. And you lose some upkeep cause you have to keep up the f2.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @The Ace.9105 said:
    Boon duration is capped to 100% no matter what the interface says in gw2.

    Nope
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Facet_of_Nature—Dragon
    "Gives a flat +20% duration to any boons applied to you, regardless of the source. Can go above the boon duration cap allowing up to +120% boon duration."
    Like i said, you can get 120% boon duration on Revenant.

    And even though the original topic is about boons on glint, u brought up the FoN-Thing. If taking the active to extend boons by 3 you would need to hit 5 of your buffed allies again. And FoN's passive is bad. Its not exactly how the wiki describes, though its not very detailed about its "description" of the skill.

    Lets talk only about the important boons here.
    Fury, protection and Swiftness. With max amount of concentration they would go from 3sec to 6seconds. With active FoN each would become an 7,2s Boon.

    This would you technically allow (without subgroup) to maintain those boons on (yourself excluded) 18ppl permanently and on additional 9 for almost half a pulse(~1,2sec)

    But tbh, is it worth taking stats to reach the concentration-cap as a herald? Not really. Cant the boons come from somewhere else anyway? Ofc, because every class is able to maintain those boons for themselve, if not -then other classes like firebrand or scrappers (wvw example) will help out with these.

    "What about regeneration?" - its not worth without max healingpower or runes. Also its not strong enough to be the only heal source.
    Might? - its getting good if its gonna get stacked. single ones = not important

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    Dont argue with this fool. I literally already disproved him and got a "no thats wrong because i said so" response, ignoring all my evidence. Just ignore him and let the thread die so this spread of misinformation stops. Theyre convinced that its not possible for a boon to override outside of a squad if the person has the boon.

    Like i cant stress this enough. Even outside a squad, boons will over ride stacks if they are closer to the applicator. If a person without the boon is farther away than someone with the boon, the new application will go the person that already has it. And if youre in a squad, it will always go in priority sub>squad>team>kennel. I have tested this myself. Multiple times.

    The literal only thing this dude is correct about is Facet of Nature, because its description is misleading. The game treats it as boon extension, not boon duration. I.e. from the code standpoint, it effectively works the same way as SoI and Tempest Earth WH4. But even with that you'd only get an extra 1.2 seconds on Facet of Darkness (7.2s total) for 2.4 applications, which under perfectly absolutely ideal circumstances still means only 20 people can keep the boons permanently, with 4 extra getting them sporadically.

    edit: I just noticed virdo above said the exact same thing but better.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    Dont argue with this fool. I literally already disproved him and got a "no thats wrong because i said so" response, ignoring all my evidence. Just ignore him and let the thread die so this spread of misinformation stops. Theyre convinced that its not possible for a boon to override outside of a squad if the person has the boon.

    Like i cant stress this enough. Even outside a squad, boons will over ride stacks if they are closer to the applicator. If a person without the boon is farther away than someone with the boon, the new application will go the person that already has it. And if youre in a squad, it will always go in priority sub>squad>team>kennel. I have tested this myself. Multiple times.

    The literal only thing this dude is correct about is Facet of Nature, because its description is misleading. The game treats it as boon extension, not boon duration. I.e. from the code standpoint, it effectively works the same way as SoI and Tempest Earth WH4. But even with that you'd only get an extra 1.2 seconds on Facet of Darkness (7.2s total) for 2.4 applications, which under perfectly absolutely ideal circumstances still means only 20 people can keep the boons permanently, with 4 extra getting them sporadically.

    hehe :bleep_bloop:
    Yeye, but he has got a point, but this sounds way better on paper than it shows in practice once again.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    And even though the original topic is about boons on glint, u brought up the FoN-Thing.

    no i didn't, i said exactly this in the earlier comment :

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    The Facets of Nature are a bit trickier, I would have to look into their exact behavior before I say anything about them"

    I never brought up FON in fact i explicitly didn't want to talk about it's effects.

    Fury, protection and Swiftness. With max amount of concentration they would go from 3sec to 6seconds. With active FoN each would become an 7,2s Boon.

    This would you technically allow (without subgroup) to maintain those boons on (yourself excluded) 18ppl permanently and on additional 9 for almost half a pulse(~1,2sec)

    Yes, exactly... i've been saying this, you can have the boons on 27 people at any given time. (There are situations where it can be more too)

    But tbh, is it worth taking stats to reach the concentration-cap as a herald? Not really. Cant the boons come from somewhere else anyway? Ofc, because every class is able to maintain those boons for themselve, if not -then other classes like firebrand or scrappers (wvw example) will help out with these.

    I never really said anything about how VIABLE it was...i just said that it's possible, and easy to do to stack it on nearly 30 people and people here simply "don't believe it."

    -------> @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    Dont argue with this fool. I literally already disproved him and got a "no thats wrong because i said so" response, ignoring all my evidence. Just ignore him and let the thread die so this spread of misinformation stops. They're convinced that its not possible for a boon to override outside of a squad if the person has the boon.

    Nobody ever said this. The chance of re-stacking the same boon on somebody is just as likely as placing the boon on somebody new. (It's actually less likely to restack it...if you want me to prove that to you, just ask and ill prove it.) The maximal amount you can in theory place your boons on is somewhere between 30-40 people. In practice itll probably be around 20-30... conceptually it's MORE THAN 10...which is the point of the thread.

    Like i cant stress this enough. Even outside a squad, boons will over ride stacks if they are closer to the applicator. If a person without the boon is farther away than someone with the boon, the new application will go the person that already has it.

    how is this any different than what I've been saying? Its based on PROXIMITY PRIORITY and I've already said that multiple times.

    Btw i didn't ignore your "evidence" i had read those threads a very long time ago many times, and i know exactly how the targeting and priorities work. Again like i said, it goes from subsquad priority to proximity priority (within your squad) once you place yourself in your own subgroup. And like I've said before you can try these things and test it for yourself.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Yes, exactly... i've been saying this, you can have the boons on 27 people at any given time. (There are situations where it can be more too)

    nope, maximum of those 3 boons is 27 while only 18 have permanent. (without wasting FoN for its active)

    how is this any different than what I've been saying? Its based on PROXIMITY PRIORITY and I've already said that multiple times.

    Its the proximity priority,yes. but If the subsquad or any other priorized players are within the 600range of the buffs, then its not the Proximity Priory.

    The proximity priority comes after the upper written priorities ,if no other ally* is within the range.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    Its the proximity priority,yes. but If the subsquad or any other priorized players are within the 600range of the buffs, then its not the Proximity Priory.

    The proximity priority comes after the upper written priorities ,if no other ally* is within the range.

    zzzz This is not correct dude. you don't know how proximity priority works.

    If you are in your OWN sub-group, there is ONLY the squad priority. Everyone in the squad is prioritized over those outside the squad and it's based on PROXIMITY for how it chooses allies within the squad. So if there are 40 allies in your squad, each in 5 man subparties, and you in your own subparty, then no matter what sub party they are in, an ability you cast on targets will be chosen via proximity.

    zzzz

    To explain again, everything in the game is based on proximity. Then from Proximity it's decentralized into groupings. So you have
    1) Sub-squad (Proximity within sub-squad)
    2) Squad (Proximity within Squad)
    3) Non-Squad (Proximity to everyone)

    All the tiers are based in proximity, and abilities that don't have enough targets will default to the next best grouping via proximity. Example, you have 2 players in your subsquad. You use a 10 man buff, which prioritizes your partner always, so long as they are in range( This is also just proximity, within subsquad). The other 8 allies are selected via proximity to your position to players in your squad...

    Do you get it now?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    Work as any boon class that can pulse from source.

    The number are aleatory at best, I think the max boons allies afected in one time was arround 10 + 4ish with boons ending for not being reaplied.

    Note I play healer as a herald, I think i would notice those healing value numbers on larger squads across all players that i pass by.

    Besides boon applied has source caster name.

    Can u make a video or take some Screens cause that m8 be a exploit u found arround squad system.

    Imo test are need to be done, 20 players ti happens needs to happens something like 2 groups of 10 separated and u moved from one to another.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Can u make a video or take some Screens cause that m8 be a exploit u found arround squad system.

    Yes, I will provide screens, thought my guild leader doesn't "approve" of me running ventari rev during guild runs, so ill do my best to get you some good data. Only way to really do it is to count all the names of players your buff effects via a heal (regeneration in this case) and have some sort of counter going that can show you the time frame in between heals, so that folks can get an accurate picture of how many people are getting effected by your regeneration in 10 seconds chunks (as an example).

    But FEEL FREE to just try it yourself as well. You only need be in a sub-squad by yourself to see the effects. You can even do a comparison of
    A- Your regeneration healing ticks in a subgroup of 10
    vs
    B- your regeneration ticks in your own subgroup.

    Not exactly the most accurate way to do it, but you should see a PROPORTIONAL increase in healing from Regeneration (From say 10% contribution to 50% contribution as an example) The Larger your sample size (taking data from multiple encounters in A situation and B situation) will lead you to more accurate results.

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    I took the time to draw a couple infographs for you so that you can visualize how priority works in this game.


    The first image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a party of 5, in a squad of around 20 with some pugs around.
    The 2nd image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a subsquad only consisting of you.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 ventari on group can be dangerous I’ve been in situations where ventari choosed not to heal the lowest hp player in mybsquad but healed the players with most hp since the selection is made to whom alacrity is choosed.

    Note the lowest hp player was the closest to the tablet, and in party.

    Even on that Anet kinda failed to iterate...:-/

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
    Yao Chen Herald/Ventari
    Ying Wuxian Renegade/Demon

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Can u make a video or take some Screens cause that m8 be a exploit u found arround squad system.

    Yes, I will provide screens, thought my guild leader doesn't "approve" of me running ventari rev during guild runs, so ill do my best to get you some good data. Only way to really do it is to count all the names of players your buff effects via a heal (regeneration in this case) and have some sort of counter going that can show you the time frame in between heals, so that folks can get an accurate picture of how many people are getting effected by your regeneration in 10 seconds chunks (as an example).

    But FEEL FREE to just try it yourself as well. You only need be in a sub-squad by yourself to see the effects. You can even do a comparison of
    A- Your regeneration healing ticks in a subgroup of 10
    vs
    B- your regeneration ticks in your own subgroup.

    Not exactly the most accurate way to do it, but you should see a PROPORTIONAL increase in healing from Regeneration (From say 10% contribution to 50% contribution as an example) The Larger your sample size (taking data from multiple encounters in A situation and B situation) will lead you to more accurate results.

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    I took the time to draw a couple infographs for you so that you can visualize how priority works in this game.


    The first image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a party of 5, in a squad of around 20 with some pugs around.
    The 2nd image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a subsquad only consisting of you.

    ye thats what i and others said.-

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    ye thats what i and others said.-

    No you said this:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    how is this any different than what I've been saying? Its based on PROXIMITY PRIORITY and I've already said that multiple times.
    @Virdo.1540 said:
    Its the proximity priority,yes. but If the subsquad or any other priorized players are within the 600range of the buffs, then its not the Proximity Priory.
    The proximity priority comes after the upper written priorities ,if no other ally* is within the range.> @Virdo.1540 said:

    This is what you said and it's wrong. Proximity priority doesn't "come after" it's always there... If you are in a subsquad with a party of 10, you will always have proximity priority with relation to your party. If you are in a subsquad of just yourself, then you will always have proximty prioirty in relation to your squad...there is no "comes after the upper written priorities" if you are in your own subgroup...

    The responses on this thread baffles me how you are literally proving everything i'm saying right but still arguing that i'm wrong.

    Meanwhile the other guy Ertuk or whatever his name is, is talking about the Boon duration stacking limit as if it even applies to this entire scenario... It has no bearing on the situation since you can never theoretically reach this boon stacking limit while doing this technique. You reach boon duration stacking limits when you are pulsing the same buffs on the same 10 people over and over again...which is the complete opposite of what we are doing in this thread (pulsing boons on as many unique individual players as possible)

    Since he brought up the idea of over-stacking, here is basic probability math, since he never bothered to ask me to prove it, ill just prove it right now:

    You have 40 players in a squad, assuming you are in your own subsquad. First pulse comes out and buffs 10 people.
    Second pulse comes out...what is the chance that you will overstack the buffs on this second pulse with the first pulse's buffs?
    10 out of 40 chance : 25% chance, So at this point on average, 17/40 will have the buff (Average of 3 players will receive the buff again)

    Third Pulse comes out. What is the chance that you will overstack the buffs on this third pulse with the other two pulses?
    17 out of 40 chance : 42% chance, So at this point on average, 23/40 will have the buff (Average of 4 players will receive the buff again)

    Fourth pulse comes out. What is the chance you will overstack the buffs on this fourth pulse with the other three pulses?
    23 out of 40 chance: 57% chance, So at this point on average, 27/40 will have the buff (Average of 6 players will receive the buff again)

    Like we've been saying, 20-30 people....Sure i may have overestimated the amount in my original post (I said 30-40) but 40 is theoretically the maximum, given that it reaches individual players everytime. Regardless the number 27 is a bigger number than 10, and that's really what the point of this thread is, which is that you can bypass the 10 ally target cap, by a significant margin.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Can u make a video or take some Screens cause that m8 be a exploit u found arround squad system.

    Yes, I will provide screens, thought my guild leader doesn't "approve" of me running ventari rev during guild runs, so ill do my best to get you some good data. Only way to really do it is to count all the names of players your buff effects via a heal (regeneration in this case) and have some sort of counter going that can show you the time frame in between heals, so that folks can get an accurate picture of how many people are getting effected by your regeneration in 10 seconds chunks (as an example).

    But FEEL FREE to just try it yourself as well. You only need be in a sub-squad by yourself to see the effects. You can even do a comparison of
    A- Your regeneration healing ticks in a subgroup of 10
    vs
    B- your regeneration ticks in your own subgroup.

    Not exactly the most accurate way to do it, but you should see a PROPORTIONAL increase in healing from Regeneration (From say 10% contribution to 50% contribution as an example) The Larger your sample size (taking data from multiple encounters in A situation and B situation) will lead you to more accurate results.

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    I took the time to draw a couple infographs for you so that you can visualize how priority works in this game.


    The first image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a party of 5, in a squad of around 20 with some pugs around.
    The 2nd image is your character (Green Triangle) casting a skill that effects 10 targets (9 allies and yourself) in a subsquad only consisting of you.

    But I don't want to be a green arrow :-(

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!