Give Daredevil BACK THE STEAL RANGE!!! — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Give Daredevil BACK THE STEAL RANGE!!!

i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe... that is ridiculously stupid! i cant play a build that i want because its been nerfted to the ground? same with lead attacks? and other things... i will be uninstalling and wont be recommending the game till balance is back regarding thief

Comments

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisOblades.3276 said:
    i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe... that is ridiculously stupid! i cant play a build that i want because its been nerfted to the ground? same with lead attacks? and other things... i will be uninstalling and wont be recommending the game till balance is back regarding thief

    In pvp, yeah things like lead attacks and aa even pi nerf made it pretty bad compared to other builds, more so high end but sure as hell is not nerfed to the ground (chrono is close to that, not daredevil). It's still good in wvw and the meta is shadow arts so you get movement speed in stealth to get closer. Swipe range didn't really make an impact for me tbh, a lil annoying that you have to get closer but most of the time you're in stealth and can dash closer anyway. Aa/lead attscks/pi hurt way more than swipe imo

  • Goodbye, then. There are other teleport skills much better than Steal which doesn't work if your target is out of range.

    Master of garbage builds and being useless.

  • Kallist.5917Kallist.5917 Member ✭✭✭

    I know how you feel. After Deadeye came out, I made an awesome little Rifle build designed to rapidly spam loads of aoe conditions and Buff's on mobs and groups of players, and it was honestly one of the funnest things about the expansions for me. But then after four or five months, they "reworked" the traits for it, and my sole remaining joy in playing thief was gone. I couldnt spam buff's to rival Chrono, And I couldnt dump conditions to rival the Scourge. Instead, I got.. Hell, I dont even remember what I got. Pretty sure I stopped playing shortly after that. Staff here have fallen in to the trap of never letting a spec really shine in more than one spot, and they wanted my deadeye gone so they could make room for the power pew pew.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2020

    @ChrisOblades.3276 said:
    i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe...

    ...have you just woke up after almost a year? <.<

    that is ridiculously stupid! i cant play a build that i want because its been nerfted to the ground?

    False, you can literally play any build you want. Also swipe didn't nerf dd to the ground. Pretty sure it actually moved the class in the direction anet wanted it to move.

    i will be uninstalling and wont be recommending the game till balance is back regarding thief

    Oh noooo... bye, I guess.

    (just play core thief if swipe range is such a deal breaker for you btw)

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @ChrisOblades.3276 said:
    i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe...

    ...have you just woke up after almost a year? <.<

    lol, I was just going to ask the same thing. That might have been a very comfortable rock.

    In the beginning...there was Tarnished Coast...

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think it's fine to reduce DD Steal Range, as DDs kinda wanna be in the thick of things, plus they have alot of mobility anyway.

    I freaking hate that it's just an added Unblockable.

    Cmon Anet, yu guys can do better than this.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    False, you can literally play any build you want. Also swipe didn't nerf dd to the ground. Pretty sure it actually moved the class in the direction anet wanted it to move.

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too. Basically they just erased all expansions and Thief had to go back to Core. That's the right direction? To just erase everything and force people to play core? And even core isn't that strong anymore cuz daggers AA is wet noodle. So.. yes.. we are now as strong as 2014 and yet we have all of these crazy specs to combat against (Scrapper/Holo/SLB etcetc...) Imagine going back to 2014 and trying to duel a Scrapper or any of these new specs. That's the direction anet wanted to take? Well bad for them. In the long run it's anet who got hurt not us. I'm glad to know some wallets at anet are a little tighter then it was cuz of these terrible decisions. And PvE? Yea.. who cares.... can still spam that Staff i suppose.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    False, you can literally play any build you want. Also swipe didn't nerf dd to the ground. Pretty sure it actually moved the class in the direction anet wanted it to move.

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too. Basically they just erased all expansions and Thief had to go back to Core. That's the right direction? To just erase everything and force people to play core? And even core isn't that strong anymore cuz daggers AA is wet noodle. So.. yes.. we are now as strong as 2014 and yet we have all of these crazy specs to combat against (Scrapper/Holo/SLB etcetc...) Imagine going back to 2014 and trying to duel a Scrapper or any of these new specs. That's the direction anet wanted to take? Well bad for them. In the long run it's anet who got hurt not us. I'm glad to know some wallets at anet are a little tighter then it was cuz of these terrible decisions. And PvE? Yea.. who cares.... can still spam that Staff i suppose.

    Yeah, because after swipe change daredevil wasn't present in the pvp scene at all, ok. Keep exaggerating, just like op.
    Pretty sure currently there's also a thread praising d/p, so... uh... ok? It's almost as if "x mains" are largely unreliable source of post-patch information, because they'll just cry about literally any form and shape of nerf to "THEIR CLASS". The performance is irrelevant to them, reasoning for the nerfs or changes are irrelevant, all that matters is that when they get THAT class nerfed, it means anet hates them and specifically targets them to be useless and miserable. I'm not talking about "thief mains" specifically, I'm talking about "any mains" -read this forum enough and you'll know it's true, lmao. People don't care to find out if something is still valid or playable, because they're blinded sheep that need a youtuber or a streamer to play something in order to accept that HEY, IT'S STILL NOT DEAD! :O

    Honestly it's hilarious how half of the people can cry about something being nerfed to the ground and worthless, while at the same time the other half will cry how it's broken and needs to be nerfed.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    "It's almost as if "x mains" are largely unreliable source of post-patch information, because they'll just cry about literally any form and shape of nerf to "THEIR CLASS". The performance is irrelevant to them, reasoning for the nerfs or changes are irrelevant.."

    And that's where you are wrong. People that played this game for over 5 years and are good at their class notices every little detail of what was changed over the years. You don't even read patch notes. You just login and immediatelly feel somethings off and THEN you go read patch notes to realise "oh... okey...". People who follow youtubers and copy their builds you say? Well that's probably ppl who played the game for like 2-3 months or so. I'm not talkin bout such people. I mean what kind of feedback do you want? From a veteran Thief only player that seen it all and you still discredit everything? Meh.. whatever mate. Some things deserved to be nerfed and some things were a total failure.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2020

    You didn't really answer to anything, you just made some random claims in your post, to which I answered and then you dropped them altogether -maybe because you know you're wrong, but maybe there's a different reason? Anyways if you don't plan to answer to anything, I'm not sure why you feel you're in a position to ask me about what kind of feedback I expect.
    And no kitten people feel the nerf without reading the patchnotes, I don't know what kind of player you'd have to be to need the patchnotes to feel the 600 range nerf on a skill or a significant damage change -it's almost like if the nerf is unnoticable ingame then there's not much of a reason to even implement it in the first place. As a follow up -no kitten it feels bad when you can feel your performance going down, seriously not a rocket science, but that's obviously part of getting a nerf. And sure, it's not limited to this game, there's enough examples of that in other games as well, apparently that's just how people generally "like" to react to changes they didn't want, which doesn't make what they say true.

    And you're asking me what players I'm talking about -well, many of them (not sure how I'm supposed to answer this question, read up on the forum and maybe you'll find out there's no really a single type I'm talking about), there are people that talk kitten like this and then claim they're "6 year WvW veterans" or something similar. In a lot of cases the span in which you've played the game doesn't immediately mean you're a reasonable source of information with clear, unbiased judgement, which is why I don't see the point of mentioning something like that. Facts are, after any nerf there's a cryout about class being oppressed and dead. Meanwhile those classes usually aren't any of that and DD wasn't dead after swipe change either despite the huge cryout similar to this thread.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    False, you can literally play any build you want. Also swipe didn't nerf dd to the ground. Pretty sure it actually moved the class in the direction anet wanted it to move.

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too. Basically they just erased all expansions and Thief had to go back to Core. That's the right direction? To just erase everything and force people to play core? And even core isn't that strong anymore cuz daggers AA is wet noodle. So.. yes.. we are now as strong as 2014 and yet we have all of these crazy specs to combat against (Scrapper/Holo/SLB etcetc...) Imagine going back to 2014 and trying to duel a Scrapper or any of these new specs. That's the direction anet wanted to take? Well bad for them. In the long run it's anet who got hurt not us. I'm glad to know some wallets at anet are a little tighter then it was cuz of these terrible decisions. And PvE? Yea.. who cares.... can still spam that Staff i suppose.

    I lol'd.

    DD was not pushed out of pvp scene at all with the nerfs.

    In fact, DD got extremely strong when DD Traits got reworked, changing them from Thief + to an actual Brawler type class. (Which was the entire point of DD in the first place)

    Comparing DD to Thief at this point is pretty much the same as comparing two different classes, because they both play extremely differently from each other.

    DD Swipe nerf sort of reflects the playstyle change, but like I said, it's a very boring change to literally just shave the range in half and add an Unblockable.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I lol'd.

    DD was not pushed out of pvp scene at all with the nerfs.

    In fact, DD got extremely strong when DD Traits got reworked, changing them from Thief + to an actual Brawler type class. (Which was the entire point of DD in the first place)

    Comparing DD to Thief at this point is pretty much the same as comparing two different classes, because they both play extremely differently from each other.

    DD Swipe nerf sort of reflects the playstyle change, but like I said, it's a very boring change to literally just shave the range in half and add an Unblockable.

    And i assume you are talking about DD Staff Acro "brawler" build. That build was viable and even better before nerfs yes tho it was and is a very boring one to play. What i am talking is DD D/P Dash build that was running for a long time and was pushed away.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    I lol'd.

    DD was not pushed out of pvp scene at all with the nerfs.

    In fact, DD got extremely strong when DD Traits got reworked, changing them from Thief + to an actual Brawler type class. (Which was the entire point of DD in the first place)

    Comparing DD to Thief at this point is pretty much the same as comparing two different classes, because they both play extremely differently from each other.

    DD Swipe nerf sort of reflects the playstyle change, but like I said, it's a very boring change to literally just shave the range in half and add an Unblockable.

    And i assume you are talking about DD Staff Acro "brawler" build. That build was viable and even better before nerfs yes tho it was and is a very boring one to play. What i am talking is DD D/P Dash build that was running for a long time and was pushed away.

    Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

    Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @Yasai.3549 said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

    Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @Yasai.3549 said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

    Do not distort my words in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dave.6819 said:

    Do not distort my words in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

    Bruh I think yur high.

    Staff DD was never "not optimal" even before Steal range nerf for DD.

    Staff DD was extremely powerful when played well because it allowed very aggressive pressure plays where yu were constantly in Evade frames while slamming down on yur target for 5k~10k damage.

    D/P DD wasn't even the Optimal DD Build with Backstab.

    People were playing D/D DD where they can proc Bounding Dodger, Steal and Cloak And Dagger from 1200 range and instantly drop a guy with an activated Assassin's Signet during a Backstab, all within 1 or 2 seconds.

    And if they wiff the backstab? Well, they fell back on spamming Bounding Dodger around the target while casting Death Blossom, which was essentially a Dagger version of Staff Evade spam.

    That was the reason DD Steal was hit was kinda "too good" at doing what Core Thief usually aims at doing, because it was literally Core Thief with an extra dodge, a Block, and Traits which made them extremely durable, resulting in Anerf probably thinking "hey, we need tradeoffs"

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2020

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

    Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @Yasai.3549 said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

    Do not distort my words in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

    I'm not distorting anything "in my crazy ways", this is literally what you wrote:

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too.

    You claimed the change pushed DD out of pvp stage, which was false/a lie. Then you said "they nerfed d/p" and "then they went and nerfed daredevil too". Never did you mention one specific "dd d/p" build like you're now suggesting, all I see is some bullkitten about pushing DD out of pvp and then complaints about d/p and dd nerfs. What exactly did I "distort" here, huh.

    The build (any build) being boring is obviously subjective, can be stated about anything and has no relation to your previous claims nor is it relevant. If there is no hidden reasoning behind that, then I still don't see why it's worth mentioning that you find it boring.

    lmao, I'm a "thief hater" now, that's hilarious. Please tell me more about that :lol: (no, literally, please tell me more about it -don't drop it like you did with your previous false claims).
    The fact that I'm not saying every nerf puts the class in the ground and I'm not constantly crying about unneeded buffs doesn't make me a "hater".

  • Make the range 900 and lets call it a day...

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Momekic.8603 said:
    Make the range 900 and lets call it a day...

    I honestly don't want that :c

    I want DD steal to be unique, fitting and different.

    I still think it will be so cool that instead of a lame Shadowstep like Thief, it would be altered to be functionally different like Deadeye.

    Would be nice if DD's Steal is something like 600 range shoulder tackle which stuns the target on hit, evading stuff while travelling.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28, 2020

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    People were playing D/D DD where they can proc Bounding Dodger, Steal and Cloak And Dagger from 1200 range and instantly drop a guy with an activated Assassin's Signet during a Backstab, all within 1 or 2 seconds.

    While I generally agree with the rest of your post (although staff was not OP due to vault, either; it was all in skills 2 and 3 with PBAoE damage and evade frame glitching respectively), this is just 100% false. D/D power Daredevil was never better than D/P at any stage, and D/D for power builds hasn't been better than D/P at anything except DPS since 2012. And even on condi builds, D/P Daredevil was stronger than D/D for a significant amount of time due to condi trapper existing for so long.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Cobrakon.3108Cobrakon.3108 Member ✭✭✭

    There is no Thief/Rogue/Assassin in this game... When will you people realize that. Invent another name.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    People were playing D/D DD where they can proc Bounding Dodger, Steal and Cloak And Dagger from 1200 range and instantly drop a guy with an activated Assassin's Signet during a Backstab, all within 1 or 2 seconds.

    While I generally agree with the rest of your post (although staff was not OP due to vault, either; it was all in skills 2 and 3 with PBAoE damage and evade frame glitching respectively), this is just 100% false. D/D power Daredevil was never better than D/P at any stage, and D/D for power builds hasn't been better than D/P at anything except DPS since 2012. And even on condi builds, D/P Daredevil was stronger than D/D for a significant amount of time due to condi trapper existing for so long.

    I think they were more notorious for WvW shenanigans where they actually did see a huge amount of success in instagibbing players.

    This was before Marked debuff forced a 5 second Reveal, I think after that, D/D saw way less use.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

    Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @Yasai.3549 said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

    Do not distort my words in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

    I'm not distorting anything "in my crazy ways", this is literally what you wrote:

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too.

    You claimed the change pushed DD out of pvp stage, which was false/a lie. Then you said "they nerfed d/p" and "then they went and nerfed daredevil too". Never did you mention one specific "dd d/p" build like you're now suggesting, all I see is some bullkitten about pushing DD out of pvp and then complaints about d/p and dd nerfs. What exactly did I "distort" here, huh.

    The build (any build) being boring is obviously subjective, can be stated about anything and has no relation to your previous claims nor is it relevant. If there is no hidden reasoning behind that, then I still don't see why it's worth mentioning that you find it boring.

    lmao, I'm a "thief hater" now, that's hilarious. Please tell me more about that :lol: (no, literally, please tell me more about it -don't drop it like you did with your previous false claims).
    The fact that I'm not saying every nerf puts the class in the ground and I'm not constantly crying about unneeded buffs doesn't make me a "hater".

    I won't fight it and i'm tired of discussions mate... I've been here since 2013. My only question for you is are you interested in Thief? Are you interested in a Rogue class that has to have a clear stand in gw2? I am and i play only assassins in every MMO. Be it BDO or ESO. Look at other MMOs. Rogue assassins have a clear and strong stand and they arent nerfed into the ground and aren't only +1 classes or decap classes (but its normal in here apparently) and sltealth is completely normal and massive dmg with range is normal too and 1v4 is quite okey if you're skilled... Skill> Everything. U won't be able to 1v4 in GW2 even if you've played this game for 7 years though. In GW2 it feels different and it's a whole different story... casuals do not know how to deal with it so anet makes a decision "lets nerf it". That's anets position. Thats how anet feels to me. They just cater to casuals... well what about veterans? Look at forums... they say that stealth is OP and should be nerfed. So they nerf it. Too many dodges? So they nerf it. Too much dmg? OK let's nerf it. Too quick? Okey let's put cooldowns on it. U can argue all u want but if u truly play and love only Thief u should remember all the nerfs we've got since pre-HoT and i'm lazy to go dig through the balance patches to show you all the nerfs daredevil got.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Cobrakon.3108 said:
    There is no Thief/Rogue/Assassin in this game... When will you people realize that. Invent another name.

    Indeed. Cannot agree more with this. Casuals can't deal with it.. so anet kills it.

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Soooo your claim was that they nefrfed D/P, but D/P is still fine -now you claim you meant one specific D/P build. You also said DD was made useless (pushed out of pvp), but when pointed out you're wrong (because you are), you claim it doesn't count, because it's boring. Great talk.

    Long story short, steal change wouldn't magically make it not-boring and literally what @Yasai.3549 said was the pretty obvious point of that nerf/rework.

    Do not distort my words in your own crazy ways. My claim was that they nerfed DD D/P and kicked out of meta (a long running Daredevil D/P meta that all Thief players loved). And by "viable" i never meant "optimal" (regarding Staff nonsence). And by boring all i meant was boring and there was no hidden reasoning behind that statement. Sure you can play Staff DD if u want to but i never said it's optimal and in PvP we want optimal. U can play P/P for all i care. You know what why i even bother? I've seen your posts around these forums. A clear Thief hater. You'd be happy to see it deleted entirely i assume.

    I'm not distorting anything "in my crazy ways", this is literally what you wrote:

    And what kind of direction would that be? To move Daredevil out of PvP stage and let Thief join in? They nerfed D/P then they went and nerfed Daredevil too.

    You claimed the change pushed DD out of pvp stage, which was false/a lie. Then you said "they nerfed d/p" and "then they went and nerfed daredevil too". Never did you mention one specific "dd d/p" build like you're now suggesting, all I see is some bullkitten about pushing DD out of pvp and then complaints about d/p and dd nerfs. What exactly did I "distort" here, huh.

    The build (any build) being boring is obviously subjective, can be stated about anything and has no relation to your previous claims nor is it relevant. If there is no hidden reasoning behind that, then I still don't see why it's worth mentioning that you find it boring.

    lmao, I'm a "thief hater" now, that's hilarious. Please tell me more about that :lol: (no, literally, please tell me more about it -don't drop it like you did with your previous false claims).
    The fact that I'm not saying every nerf puts the class in the ground and I'm not constantly crying about unneeded buffs doesn't make me a "hater".

    I won't fight it and i'm tired of discussions mate...

    There's nothing to fight here, you write something that's incorrect, I point it out, you change your stance and try to claim I'm distorting what you said "in my crazy ways". You're the one that tries to insult me (and then calls me a "thief hater" :sleeping: ) when you have nothing to say. There also isn't much of a discussion here, notice how you drop what you wrote again (literally called it in my previous post) when you see you're wrong, just to redirect into something else. If you want me to start answering your irrelevant questions, maybe stop pretending I didn't write anything before that. Even moreso, when after claiming you're tired of discussions, you type out lenghy-ish post about something irrelevant to what was written before.

    @Dave.6819 said:
    U can argue all u want but if u truly play and love only Thief u should remember all the nerfs we've got since pre-HoT and i'm lazy to go dig through the balance patches to show you all the nerfs daredevil got.

    You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

    And this is where we track back to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642 All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

  • Dave.6819Dave.6819 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2020

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

    And this is where we track back to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642 All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

    Okey so you wanna talk about perspective.... alright. Yes i am a Thief main. And no i'm not "us vs. them". I look at the big picture cuz i got every class in the stash and somehow playing Holo/Soulbeast/Mirage/FB/Rev/Scourge after a few days i'm already better then playing a Thief for 6-7 years. That makes me wonder. Lack of perspective or actually evaluating balance from every angle?

    "All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective."

    Absolutely wrong my friend. I always look how Thief compares to the other classes. Somehow i never used to rant about it in 2013 2014 2015.. cuz everythin seemed balanced. It had its counters and it had it's weaknesses like it supposed to be. It wasn't OP but it wasn't only a +1 or decap class either. I rant only when there's a real reason to rant having in mind all classes and how they stack against each other. So yea.. think again. Simple fact. Assassin classes are supposed to be squishy but deal high dmg. Somehow we backstab for a lot less then Holo/Rev can burst.. Is that normal in your opinion? That's balanced and healthy?

    Physical Supremacy: This trait now causes Steal to become Swipe, which reduces the range from 1,200 to 600

    So who's the Thief now?
    2019.04.23 -Anet

  • Zexanima.7851Zexanima.7851 Member ✭✭✭✭

    No! It's mine, you can't have it.

    Depression and anxiety are the worst...

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31, 2020

    @Dave.6819 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    You're just another example of a player with absolutely no perspective, all you do is spam one character and every balance patch you see turns into "us vs them" instead of actually seeing the bigger picture (which isn't anywhere near perfection, lets be clear about that, but it sure isn't what you're trying to make it seem like). While you dig up the DD patchnotes, don't forget to dig up nearly every other class as well.

    And this is where we track back to https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1142642/#Comment_1142642 All you care about is not getting ANY nerfs to THE class you play. You don't care what is or isn't deserved, you just care about feeling like anet somehow targets what you play specifically. Absolute lack of perspective. If you want to do what other classes do, play other classes. The class/build/spec having its niche in the game should be desirable imo. Otherwise, what's even the point?

    Okey so you wanna talk about perspective....

    Oh, so you're not tired of discussions. Sooo there's no reason for you to not answer to the previous posts anymore, right? :D

    @Dave.6819 said:
    Absolutely wrong my friend. I always look how Thief compares to the other classes. Somehow i never used to rant about it in 2013 2014 2015..

    And yet, somehow you've made a claim that the swipe change pushed DD out of pvp, while apparently not understanading the point of the implemented changes.
    Then another "u should remember all the nerfs we've got since pre-HoT and i'm lazy to go dig through the balance patches to show you all the nerfs daredevil got." -so sure, lets pretend that nothing else got nerfed, but it's just DD/thief that's so oppressed with unjust changes. "Evaluating balance from every angle" and totally not playing a victim in self-made "us vs them" war, ok, whatever you say.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    People were playing D/D DD where they can proc Bounding Dodger, Steal and Cloak And Dagger from 1200 range and instantly drop a guy with an activated Assassin's Signet during a Backstab, all within 1 or 2 seconds.

    While I generally agree with the rest of your post (although staff was not OP due to vault, either; it was all in skills 2 and 3 with PBAoE damage and evade frame glitching respectively), this is just 100% false. D/D power Daredevil was never better than D/P at any stage, and D/D for power builds hasn't been better than D/P at anything except DPS since 2012. And even on condi builds, D/P Daredevil was stronger than D/D for a significant amount of time due to condi trapper existing for so long.

    I think they were more notorious for WvW shenanigans where they actually did see a huge amount of success in instagibbing players.

    This was before Marked debuff forced a 5 second Reveal, I think after that, D/D saw way less use.

    I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

    D/D was never a dominant kit, especially not with Daredevil.

    Core signet D/D was played in WvW more or less as a meme by a lot of people because it could legitimately one-shot most damage-oriented builds, but that's not unique to D/D and the theory and application/purpose of AS builds is more or less something that's being showcased by the emergence of D/P Assassin's Signet in the sPvP scene now. D/P SA Assassin's Signet core and D/P Daredevil have been run for years in WvW, and it's strictly the better build than anything D/D.

    Death Blossom, Dancing Dagger, and in-combat-only, non-stacking/predictable cast stealth via CnD are just too weak at high levels of play, and the damage of CnD is usually more of a blessing than a curse in the low levels of play (and depending on the build and timeframe, all levels) with the passive damage prevention procs/effects so many builds have baked-in once at health thresholds.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2020

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

    Min was definitely beyond Sind and Toker mechanically. I’d put min as one of the best thief dualists in the game.

    Sind and toker really know how to win games and understood mechanics though, which I highly respect them for.

    Anyway I usto also main thief (4K games) was my fav class until my builds all got nerfed...the nail in the coffin was the steal nerf.

    When I log my thief I just look at how much effort it takes for me to do 6k damage, then I hop on my reaper and just laugh while I mash my auto attack for 11k

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    I have several thousand hours into D/D thief and until I stopped playing stayed competitive with a lot of some very popular thieves known for their good and skill-expressive play. Back in the days from Yishis to Min and Aikijin. Not on Sind or Toker's level, but not too far from it. Through sheer practice hours I'm better at D/D than any other thief kit.

    Min was definitely beyond Sind and Toker mechanically. I’d put min as one of the best thief dualists in the game.

    Sind and toker really know how to win games and understood mechanics though, which I highly respect them for.

    Anyway I usto also main thief (4K games) was my fav class until my builds all got nerfed...the nail in the coffin was the steal nerf.

    When I log my thief I just look at how much effort it takes for me to do 6k damage, then I hop on my reaper and just laugh while I mash my auto attack for 11k

    Min's highlight time was during the peak of staff Daredevil and when nobody really know how to deal with it though. At least that was my experience. But I digress; my point was I've been around and fought a lot of the big names playing D/D near-exclusively. But enough of that.

    I really am sad what they did to reaper. It has no skill expression anymore since the SR/RShroud changes because people didn't know how to play it :(

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @ChrisOblades.3276 said:
    i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe...

    ...have you just woke up after almost a year? <.<

    lol, I was just going to ask the same thing. That might have been a very comfortable rock.

    Everybody panic, bears have found the internet!

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • @ChrisOblades.3276 said:
    i wont be playing guild wars 2 till you fix the 600 range swipe... that is ridiculously stupid! i cant play a build that i want because its been nerfted to the ground? same with lead attacks? and other things... i will be uninstalling and wont be recommending the game till balance is back regarding thief

    Noone cares, bye bye, dont let the door hit you on the way out