Drakkar in GW1/GW2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Drakkar in GW1/GW2

Gryphon.2875Gryphon.2875 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 30, 2020 in Lore

Just caught some ambient dialogue about Drakkar. To summarize.. Yes, it looks different than it did 250 years ago. Jormag turned it over time from the way it looked in GW1 to the way it looks now... so, both versions are correct. Cute 🤭

Comments

  • It looks more like the Ice Column Creature in GW1.

  • You can also tell that a lot of its flesh has rotten away, namely the skin around its skull and forearms, which could explain why his head looks thinner than in GW1. Drakkar still has those side plate-things, but they're much smaller now.

    Still not that much of a fan to the changes, and wish there was more explanation given than "because Jormag willed it" which is no better than "a wizard did it", but at least there are some similarities when you look closely.

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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    You can also tell that a lot of its flesh has rotten away, namely the skin around its skull and forearms, which could explain why his head looks thinner than in GW1. Drakkar still has those side plate-things, but they're much smaller now.

    Still not that much of a fan to the changes, and wish there was more explanation given than "because Jormag willed it" which is no better than "a wizard did it", but at least there are some similarities when you look closely.

    It could be that it looks different because is feeding on the infinite energy of the lost spirits of the wild. Could explain it’s change in appearance.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2020

    If it was only Wolverine's power, I'd definitely see that as possible, given the aberrants are fairly necrotic/undead-like. But how does Ox and Eagle's powers influence Drakkar's appearance? Could also be Zhaitan's magic influencing Drakkar, but nothing suggests such - just Jormag's new ability to speak through corpses hints at such (since S3).

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  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2020

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    "a wizard did it"

    This is me every time I have to explain myself at work.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    "a wizard did it"

    This is me every time I have to explain myself at work.

    I’m gonna use it today and every day hereforth now

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I really hate it. GW1 Drakkar's model was not pretty, but super cool. I felt very disappointed when they said it's not Jormag.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    If it was only Wolverine's power, I'd definitely see that as possible, given the aberrants are fairly necrotic/undead-like. But how does Ox and Eagle's powers influence Drakkar's appearance? Could also be Zhaitan's magic influencing Drakkar, but nothing suggests such - just Jormag's new ability to speak through corpses hints at such (since S3).

    The energy coming off of Drakkar is that greeny colour that Zhaitan uses, so it could be possible. I briefly looked at the combat log and saw a few combat skills, but nothing that points to death, other then Drakkar’s physical appearance and green energy.

  • So after doing more achievements, I discovered that the book achievement goes into more detail about Drakkar's post-GW1 activities (as do some ambient dialogue at Spirit's Refuge that was mentioned already).

    Since then, the lake has been kniown as a place of curious whispers and dark power. Following the rise of Jormag, many norn abandoned the ancient shrines and settlements dotting the valley, leaving them to the elements and the dragon's loyal servants.

    When the kodan arrived shortly after Jormag's rise, they were forced to make that valley their own. The waters would not take them farther, and their ships were trapped within mountains of ice. The small huts they built to protect themselves from the cold soon became a permanent settlement. When the time came to name their new home, all the kodan seemed to acknowledge that there was something...curious about the nearby > l> ake.

    The snow muffles the sounds of nature, gives the wind a voice of its own -- yet this was different. The water itself seemed to speak, a whisper barely perceptible. The kodan named their settlement after this strange phenomenon: Still Waters Speaking.

    Then Zhaitan was slain. Then Mordremoth. Then Kralkatorrik. With each Elder Dragon slain by the Pact Commander and their allies, the whispers seemed to grow louder. What was once a murmur on the wind soon became fully formed words. You heard the words, and the words knew you heard them. They would speak to you, tell you what you wanted to hear.

    You would begin to trust the words as your own thoughts.

    And that was how Jormag's thoughts became your thoughts.

    Somehow, Drakkar's presence in the lake was making Jormag's voice louder in the valley. The kodan knew what was happening before anyone else. They figured out what Drakkar was. Drakkar the creaturre in the lake, the Ice Dragon'S personal champion, was a mouthpiece for the Elder Dragon. An amplifier of sorts, capable of spreading the whispers of the Elder Dragon far beyond its lair. And with the death of Kralkatorrik and the emergence of a new Elder Dragon in his stead, Drakkar's whispers became unbearable.

    So not just Jormag, but Drakkar got boosts from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik even it seems.

    So Drakkar's changes, in both power and appearance, seems to me to be based off of first siphoning power from the Lost Spirits, then from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and most recently Kralkatorrik.

    Being affected by so many types of magic would undoubtably alter Drakkar's appearance, in a similar manner that Aurene's appearance was altered when she absorbed a ton of magic, and her appearance took some influence from that magic (her jaw coming from Mordremoth, for example).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    So after doing more achievements, I discovered that the book achievement goes into more detail about Drakkar's post-GW1 activities (as do some ambient dialogue at Spirit's Refuge that was mentioned already).

    Since then, the lake has been kniown as a place of curious whispers and dark power. Following the rise of Jormag, many norn abandoned the ancient shrines and settlements dotting the valley, leaving them to the elements and the dragon's loyal servants.

    When the kodan arrived shortly after Jormag's rise, they were forced to make that valley their own. The waters would not take them farther, and their ships were trapped within mountains of ice. The small huts they built to protect themselves from the cold soon became a permanent settlement. When the time came to name their new home, all the kodan seemed to acknowledge that there was something...curious about the nearby > l> ake.

    The snow muffles the sounds of nature, gives the wind a voice of its own -- yet this was different. The water itself seemed to speak, a whisper barely perceptible. The kodan named their settlement after this strange phenomenon: Still Waters Speaking.

    Then Zhaitan was slain. Then Mordremoth. Then Kralkatorrik. With each Elder Dragon slain by the Pact Commander and their allies, the whispers seemed to grow louder. What was once a murmur on the wind soon became fully formed words. You heard the words, and the words knew you heard them. They would speak to you, tell you what you wanted to hear.

    You would begin to trust the words as your own thoughts.

    And that was how Jormag's thoughts became your thoughts.

    Somehow, Drakkar's presence in the lake was making Jormag's voice louder in the valley. The kodan knew what was happening before anyone else. They figured out what Drakkar was. Drakkar the creaturre in the lake, the Ice Dragon'S personal champion, was a mouthpiece for the Elder Dragon. An amplifier of sorts, capable of spreading the whispers of the Elder Dragon far beyond its lair. And with the death of Kralkatorrik and the emergence of a new Elder Dragon in his stead, Drakkar's whispers became unbearable.

    So not just Jormag, but Drakkar got boosts from Zhaitan and Mordremoth, and Kralkatorrik even it seems.

    So Drakkar's changes, in both power and appearance, seems to me to be based off of first siphoning power from the Lost Spirits, then from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, and most recently Kralkatorrik.

    Being affected by so many types of magic would undoubtably alter Drakkar's appearance, in a similar manner that Aurene's appearance was altered when she absorbed a ton of magic, and her appearance took some influence from that magic (her jaw coming from Mordremoth, for example).

    We now have confirmation that Aurene did not absorb all of Kralkatorrik’s magic as well as Jormag potentially having Crystal and Fury spectrums too.

  • This isn't exactly the first time we've seen alteration in the bodies of Elder Dragon minions based on the amount of magic absorbed by the Elders. Death-Branded Shatterer and the grunt minions getting mixed Elder powers was literally explored by the game before we got Drakkar back.

    Drakkar happens to have the most drastic change due to just how much Jormag absorbed in terms of overall magic from the other Elders, plus Balthazar, at this point. If Kralk, for example, managed to absorb more power at this point if it was still alive, I'm sure the Shatterer would look even less of a Shatterer.

  • @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    This isn't exactly the first time we've seen alteration in the bodies of Elder Dragon minions based on the amount of magic absorbed by the Elders. Death-Branded Shatterer and the grunt minions getting mixed Elder powers was literally explored by the game before we got Drakkar back.

    This is, however, the first time we've seen an alteration of a pre-existing dragon minion without raising it from the dead.

    Primordus' minions on the Ring of Fire were all made there by every indication, as we see destroyers in PoF that lack the death and vine magic. And all the Death-Branded were animated corpses (either of non-branded, or of branded; including the Death-Branded Shatterer and Death-Branded Wraithbringer).

    Drakkar happens to have the most drastic change due to just how much Jormag absorbed in terms of overall magic from the other Elders, plus Balthazar, at this point. If Kralk, for example, managed to absorb more power at this point if it was still alive, I'm sure the Shatterer would look even less of a Shatterer.

    Based on Season 3, Kralkatorrik had actually absorbed far more magic from Zhaitan (and possibly Mordremoth) than Jormag did - distance is relevant here. Primordus absorbed the most of both, due to moving to the Ring of Fire islands, and Kralkatorrik seemed to have gotten more Zhaitan than Mordremoth. And the amount of magic from Balthazar and Kralkatorrik would also be far less ,given that they were even further away.

    So Drakkar's more drastic change isn't due to Jormag getting more power from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, or Balthazar.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • ChronoPinoyX.7923ChronoPinoyX.7923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    This is, however, the first time we've seen an alteration of a pre-existing dragon minion without raising it from the dead.
    Primordus' minions on the Ring of Fire were all made there by every indication, as we see destroyers in PoF that lack the death and vine magic. And all the Death-Branded were animated corpses (either of non-branded, or of branded; including the Death-Branded Shatterer and Death-Branded Wraithbringer).

    True, but as the game already shows, Elders can mold their minions and champions to whatever they want regardless if alive or dead, the only real difference between Drakkar and the Shatterer was that we got to the Shatterer first, if it were the other way around, I'm sure we'd still see a completely different Shatterer

    Based on Season 3, Kralkatorrik had actually absorbed far more magic from Zhaitan (and possibly Mordremoth) than Jormag did - distance is relevant here. Primordus absorbed the most of both, due to moving to the Ring of Fire islands, and Kralkatorrik seemed to have gotten more Zhaitan than Mordremoth. And the amount of magic from Balthazar and Kralkatorrik would also be far less ,given that they were even further away.

    So Drakkar's more drastic change isn't due to Jormag getting more power from Zhaitan, Mordremoth, or Balthazar.

    Jormag would still have more than enough to change a champion into something else regardless of the amount as Jormag is changing one champion, he's not pulling a Kralk and changing multiple, that's where the difference in the amount of magic lies between Jormag and the other Elders. The Balthazar part was a moot point, forgot he got Thanos'd next to Kralk so my mistake on that.

    On a side note, the one thing that ANet hasn't exactly covered as of this current moment is whether or not Aurene pretty much absorbed everything from Kralk or if they did another split with Aurene getting most of Kralk's magic with a portion going to Jormag, Primordus and Steve. If the case is the latter, then that would mean there's plenty more death magic on Jormag than we might think, but that's an ANet thing that needs to be addressed.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The drastic change seems to be because Drakkar absorbed the magic directly instead. The Death Branded shatterer was Kralk absorbing Zhaitan's then resurrecting his dead champion.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2, 2020

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    True, but as the game already shows, Elders can mold their minions and champions to whatever they want regardless if alive or dead, the only real difference between Drakkar and the Shatterer was that we got to the Shatterer first, if it were the other way around, I'm sure we'd still see a completely different Shatterer

    With the exclusion of Drakkar, the only time we've seen Elder Dragons mold their minions is when they corrupt them - either initial corruption, or when resurrecting them. And even then, making something "death-touched" really just gave a slightly decayed/worn down appearance with green hues.

    Jormag would still have more than enough to change a champion into something else regardless of the amount as Jormag is changing one champion, he's not pulling a Kralk and changing multiple, that's where the difference in the amount of magic lies between Jormag and the other Elders.

    I would disagree, for the reason above.

    Jormag may be more selective in the process, but that doesn't change the fact this is the first time we see a living, already corrupted, dragon minion get fundamentally altered in every way by absorbing magic. The only physical changes we've seen to _living _dragon minions before is size increase or volatility.

    Not that such differentiation matters beyond "we now know this is possible". We just didn't before.

    On a side note, the one thing that ANet hasn't exactly covered as of this current moment is whether or not Aurene pretty much absorbed everything from Kralk or if they did another split with Aurene getting most of Kralk's magic with a portion going to Jormag, Primordus and Steve. If the case is the latter, then that would mean there's plenty more death magic on Jormag than we might think, but that's an ANet thing that needs to be addressed.

    One of the books in this update confirms that Aurene didn't get all of Kralkatorrik's magic. Drakkar got a power boost from Kralkatorrik's death, indicating that some magic got released into the world.

    We don't know which kind of magic, though. Whether it was Kralkatorrik's own magic, or Balthazar's/Mordremoth's/Zhaitan's (be it one, two, or all three of them).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:
    True, but as the game already shows, Elders can mold their minions and champions to whatever they want regardless if alive or dead, the only real difference between Drakkar and the Shatterer was that we got to the Shatterer first, if it were the other way around, I'm sure we'd still see a completely different Shatterer

    With the exclusion of Drakkar, the only time we've seen Elder Dragons mold their minions is when they corrupt them - either initial corruption, or when resurrecting them. And even then, making something "death-touched" really just gave a slightly decayed/worn down appearance with green hues.

    Jormag would still have more than enough to change a champion into something else regardless of the amount as Jormag is changing one champion, he's not pulling a Kralk and changing multiple, that's where the difference in the amount of magic lies between Jormag and the other Elders.

    I would disagree, for the reason above.

    Jormag may be more selective in the process, but that doesn't change the fact this is the first time we see a living, already corrupted, dragon minion get fundamentally altered in every way by absorbing magic. The only physical changes we've seen to _living _dragon minions before is size increase or volatility.

    Not that such differentiation matters beyond "we now know this is possible". We just didn't before.

    On a side note, the one thing that ANet hasn't exactly covered as of this current moment is whether or not Aurene pretty much absorbed everything from Kralk or if they did another split with Aurene getting most of Kralk's magic with a portion going to Jormag, Primordus and Steve. If the case is the latter, then that would mean there's plenty more death magic on Jormag than we might think, but that's an ANet thing that needs to be addressed.

    One of the books in this update confirms that Aurene didn't get all of Kralkatorrik's magic. Drakkar got a power boost from Kralkatorrik's death, indicating that some magic got released into the world.

    We don't know which kind of magic, though. Whether it was Kralkatorrik's own magic, or Balthazar's/Mordremoth's/Zhaitan's (be it one, two, or all three of them).

    Mist-dragon 2.0 from Balth's magic.

    I feel like Jormag would make use of it a little bit better than Kralk did. Like using it to escape/hide but also find new powerful minions to corrupt. Versus Kralk just using it to devour everything. Possibly the Fury/torment aspect of Kralk that drove that. Where as Jormag may not have the same afflictions and may be more methodical about how she uses that ability.

    I don't know if they would take that angle though, having just done it with Kralk. If they did they would have to show a complete change in power to keep it from feeling too similar or leading to the same, "elder dragon consuming the mists and reality is doomed" plot.

  • Jormag had interests in the Mists far longer than Kralkatorrik did - both in the personal story with the Wolf Havroun; in GW1, Svanir had the ability Spirit World Retreat ("Spirit World" / "Spirit Realm" being the Mists), and a bunch of Spirit-named skills. Just like how Jormag had always had that whispering situation, long before Mordremoth and his "mind" domain.

    But despite Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik basically being half of Jormag mixed with plant/crystal stuff, Jormag's methodology has always been different in respect to these shared aspects.

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    All these squares make a circle.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    Keep in mind with Drakkar's design that Jormag is known for creating minions/champions that look similarly skeletal.

    Boneskinners we see in game are also far more akin to what we'd expect from undead looking minions despite no relation to Zhaitan.
    And Jormag's Dragonspawn champion which existed long before any Elder Dragons were slain also shared a few things in common with Drakkar's redesign.

    Dragonspawn glowed blue rather than green like Drakkar and was of a very different overall design.
    But both were skeletal looking creatures and both possessed long skulls for their size, much like Bonskinners do as well so this does seem to be a recurring theme with Jormag's minion design, just not as common as it's usual Icebrood.

    One point to note is that since the death of Dragonspawn it's possible that Drakkar took on the fulltime role as Jormag's mouthpiece.
    While it always did act as such I think that Dragonspawn may have shared the role while it was alive, maybe even being the more dominant one in said role.
    With it's death in the novels this could be at least part of the reason Drakkar was altered by Jormag to better serve the role as it's mouthpiece.

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    Guild Wars 1 Drakkar reminds you of someone ancient, less suited for combat, and more prone to feigning wisdom. One of those big, clumsy, old creatures you see in cartoons every now and then. Not suited for combat, but powerful none the less.

    Guild Wars 2 Drakkar is like a trade ship suited for combat, in this regard. Jormag knew we were coming for him/her next. Why not modify your champions to have a more suitable kit of abilities?

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
    Guild Wars 1 Drakkar reminds you of someone ancient, less suited for combat, and more prone to feigning wisdom. One of those big, clumsy, old creatures you see in cartoons every now and then. Not suited for combat, but powerful none the less.

    Guild Wars 2 Drakkar is like a trade ship suited for combat, in this regard. Jormag knew we were coming for him/her next. Why not modify your champions to have a more suitable kit of abilities?

    Drakkar from the last dragon rise as shown from GW1 model. Seems more suited to travelling in the oceans. Now that Drakkar has been landlocked as well as Jormag obtaining new magics it’s no wonder that Drakkar has been altered.

    Jormag called to us first as well as Bangar, so it’s not a huge surprise that Jormag altered Drakkar to be threatening as well more predatory.