What are "casual" and "hardcore" in GW2? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What are "casual" and "hardcore" in GW2?

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  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    Google is your friend!

    casual
    1.
    relaxed and unconcerned.
    "a casual attitude to life"
    Similar: relaxed, friendly, natural, informal, unceremonious, unpretentious, easy-going, free and easy, uninhibited, open, laid-back
    Opposite: formal
    2.
    not regular or permanent.
    Similar: temporary, part-time, impermanent, freelance, irregular, occasional, intermittent, outside, outsourced
    Opposite: permanent, full-time

    hardcore
    1.
    the most active, committed, or strict members of a group or movement.
    "the party still has a hard core of supporters that will always vote for them"

    1.
    highly committed in one's support for or dedication to something.
    "hardcore gamers"

    I will tell you a shocking truth: A player can be both at any given time. I know it's hard to grasp for many as they like putting labels on others, or themselves. Spoiler alert: a lot of players are both, just not at the same time, obviously. A player that doesn't like playing the meta, doesn't like optimizing or reading guides, but parks as many characters as possible in Malchor's Leap, in order to gather wood daily on a rotation, to make their legendary weapon, shows they are dedicated, committed and active in the game. While they perform their heavy rotation gathering they are being hardcore by definition of the word. A player that enjoys min-maxing, heavy build optimization in order to participate (and win) in monthly PVP tournaments, might also participate in guild events where they meet, socialize, talk and role play, without even using character skills or gear. They are casual by every definition of the word at that time.

    In short: you can't put a label because a player's attitude and playstyle can and will vary over the course of a play session.

    I'll go with this, well said.

  • Daddicus.6128Daddicus.6128 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So, it seems the bottom line is that the definitions are all over the map.

    So, I'll rescind my original reason for starting this thread. Instead of defining the labels, I'll just say

    Let's make sure we're talking about the same thing when we use a label of any kind. From now on, when I describe myself as casual, I'm going to say what that means to me (relaxed).

  • I find all the attempts to explain Casual and Harcore much more interesting.
    I think, neither casual nor hardcore-players are active here in the forum. Most of them are doing their own thing. While the majority are neither casual nor hardcore players here now, and try to describe these players mostly in a very disrespectful way ^^.
    A casual can walk through the game just as stressed as the hardcore players described here and vice versa. Especially when I see the people here on the forums who call themselves casual and get so stressed out over other people or gameplay.

    Just play the game the way you like it and let others play the way they like it. No one can decide for others how they have fun. And nobody should be told how to have fun.

  • Game of Bones.8975Game of Bones.8975 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For me, hardcore includes those people who optimize their characters' equipment to the Nth degree, follow all the patches and make changes accordingly, as well as constantly challenge themselves in PvP/WvW and Fractals. When they play, it is a way of life to be perfected.

    Casual gameplay is for those who play with what they have, however many hours a week they can spend. Choosing weapons due to cosmetics rather than kills and survivability.

    Casual players chip away at goals and achievements, always having many options to work from. Hardcore players strike at goals with abandon until completed and move on to the next.

    Both sets may have Legendary weapons; casual players are more likely to do it for the skins while hardcore players are looking for the attribute-swapping feature.

    Hardcore players finish a new map/expansion/LW story in a day and then wonder what's next; casual players take longer and may never even finish the map at all.

    On the whole, a player can be casual with one character, but hardcore with another (their primary).

    "That's what" -- She

  • I'm a very invested player.

    I've put in thousands of hours over 7, soon to be 8, years for GW2. Played across each game mode and each profession. I've participated in ranked PvP for the majority of my post HoT days, been through about 50 or so successful raids, but only cleared T1 fractals and am about halfway through T2 (I just don't dig fractals that much). I don't farm metas (though I used to), and I haven't actively raided in months. I play WvW as my go-to when I'm bored with whatever PvE hotness just came out; though, I do enjoy the story and maps.

    I am in the very clear minority. A lot of players camp a single game mode of their choice. I have friends who never leave PvE or WvW. Some who will play Raids but not Fractals. Others who will play WvW and PvE, but are loathe to step foot in PvP, even unranked. A lot of run-of-the-mill competitive mode players will be naturally very good at anything PvE can throw at them. Some really good "challenging content" players in PvE will be really good at WvW. People mix and match, overlap, or fall short all over the place.

    I like mastering my abilities and I like learning professions and playing the combat as fluidly as possible. Exploring off-meta builds as well as meta builds to see what's so hype about them. I do get frustrated when I see people playing in a way that makes it harder for them. Maybe missing a mechanic like break bars, not knowing what to do with them, but that's a very rare instance and I would need to be in a pretty foul mood to actively say anything about it.

    The game does a poor job of exploring how far you can push yourself as a player and your profession of choice. It's very hands-free when it comes to the player learning curve and does little to reward player curiosity when they venture out of their comfort zone. Ideally, the game should make you curious about something, then you'd want to explore it and the rest of it comes from your own, personally generated momentum. That was my experience anyway.

    But... I know there are people who do not look for anything beyond a bit of escapism, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, I can tell you... If I'm done with the story and don't feel like playing WvW or PvP, I'm playing something else or doing something else.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • sorudo.9054sorudo.9054 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if you're as casual as me you can call yourself an actual casual player.
    i never do group content.
    i can't stand anything PvP.
    i only do some stuff that i like and the rest can die for all i care.
    i do the story but don't give a kitten about achievements.
    the open world is all i care about.
    i have none of the legendary weapons.
    crafting is way to much of a bother.
    grinding is boring.

    so if you have this list on all check then you can call yourself a casual player, anything else is just slightly higher.

    the truth is harsh, my opinions are too.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    When it comes to players, I see it as simply the dedication to the game.

    I don’t see it as defining skill level or what you actually do when you play the game.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    So, it seems the bottom line is that the definitions are all over the map.

    I think that's why seeking the definition is important, though. So that we understand that we, as forumers/redditors as a whole, don't have a consistent definition for these terms. Though the behaviors are on opposite ends, they cover such a broad range that a person could be "hardcore" about researching the metagame and "casual" in play time, or any other combination.
    At my most active in GW2, I never hit what I would consider "hardcore", because the realms of elitists didn't interest me, but I was still playing up to 4+ hours a night. I wouldn't pug for instance content, but I'd be all over open world throwing myself at quick-join content and doing my best to support it. Midcore, to spin the term.

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Frostfang.5109Frostfang.5109 Member ✭✭✭

    For PvE
    Raiders = Hardcore
    Everything else = casual

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    hardcore = thousands of skins and using all shiniest stuff to bright like a living sun.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Going to drown in the thread, but I call myself casual, and what I feel differentiates me from what I perceive as the next step (I don't think casual and hardcore make up the whole spectrum, not sure if that has been discussed yet) the most is that I don't generally thrive to be efficient. I can grind for a thing for ages, and go for big goals, but I buy and sell instantly, and I got around 40% of the lucky envelopes I could have gotten (and got 15% less gold for them than I could have (more easily, too)) - I don't mind, I'm just happy to be here, doing whatever I find fun any particular day.

    If I had to pick a metric to be used to define how casual or hardcore someone is, I'd go with competitiveness. "I want to be better, the best" versus my "this is what I am, how well can I do?"

  • Endless Soul.5178Endless Soul.5178 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "One is a veteran of the game, that played many years, generally knows how to play, and understands the game mechanics. He never went out of his way to look for that info, though (and, specifically, practically never uses out-of-game sources), nor did he ever thought about, say, spending several hours at the golem practicing his rotations - everything he knows he picked up naturally, by playing the game. And while he may be aware that some builds/play styles may be better than others, he picks what he plays by what he finds more fun, not what is most effective (and, as such, he is not above playing, say, a bearbow). He plays the game for story and relaxation, and isn't really interested in stuff like "being challenged" or "proving yourself" - he just wants to have fun."

    This describes me perfectly. However, I have spent 6,547 hours in the game since March, 2015 when I first switched over from Guild Wars 1. So, am I a casual or hardcore?
    (The answer may be in the thread already, I skimmed past most of the posts)

    Asura characters: Zerina | Myndee | Bekka | Akee | Feyyt | Nuumy | Tylee | Rissa | Jaxxi | Sixx | Claara | Conii | Jymm | Synn | Zeena

    Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade but your soul is endless

  • @Endless Soul.5178 said:
    This describes me perfectly. However, I have spent 6,547 hours in the game --

    Would enthusiast be tolerable title? (PC hardware space uses it between a consumer and a professional). You clearly enjoy the setting, like a good book you can keep reading.

    (I see you main Asuras, so may Mordremoth bless your soul. (FLEE!))

  • Cuks.8241Cuks.8241 Member ✭✭✭

    Hardcore vs casual for me is mostly time investment.
    It is not really an indication of skill and success though in my opinion.
    I'm now a casual player, games are low priority in my life and only play when I have the time. I will not put game over most other stuff in my life. But I used to be a hardcore fps player since the 90's. I played quake and UT competitively, joined tournaments, regular practices with my clan. Put me in a fps game and I will do well from the start.
    It does translate also to other games. Mechanically I'm solid but lack knowledge and focus of a hardcore player.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Endless Soul.5178 said:
    This describes me perfectly. However, I have spent 6,547 hours in the game since March, 2015 when I first switched over from Guild Wars 1. So, am I a casual or hardcore?

    For me, playing time doesn't decide that.

    So, maybe you just have a lot of free time, or nothing better to do instead, or both. Who knows? Those things do not mean someone is suddenly hardcore (or even dedicated).

    As an extreme example, i wouldn't call a couch potato a "hardcore tv viewer".

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What is hardcore in gw1 has become casual in gw2.
    Long story short, the Blasphemer in gw1 would show you suffering in ways you never knew. Meanwhile you can fight Balthazar in GW2 until you're in your underwear

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    I'm just sad that nobody plays games in general just for fun and enjoyment anymore. What happened to the old days when people actually enjoyed playing games and saw them as a way of relaxation? Why does everything have to be competitive these days? Why can't we all be nicer to eachother? This and a few other reasons are mainly why i like the time when the majority of games was singleplayer and the only co-op was on the couch. Even back then there were online games but nobody (or at least not everyone) was acting like an kitten towards others.
    Anyways, why is "casual" a bad thing? Not everyone can sink their entire life into a game. Some people still have a real life. I know plenty of people who played the game since launch and are being badly treated by "hardcore" players. Also I hate that you have to be a showoff to validate yourself these days or others might mistake you for something else despite playing for 7 years and not chose to cluster your characters with legendaries, other prestige items and infusion stacking.
    Just let people enjoy the game and not make assumptions about anyone based on what you see. You may never know the actual truth behind everyone. Even new players should feel "safe" and veterans should try to reach out and actually help new players instead of being rude towards them. That and many other things will lead to a healthy community which will spread outside of the game so that eventually more people will join and it will become bigger which would help Arenanet.
    I don't know, but I remember the community actually being much more friendly than it is nowadays. I know there were unfriendly ones even before HoT with the dungeon "elitism" and such but it was never as bad as things are today.
    Just let's have a nice time together.

    It's a problem because casuals always pin the blame on us. And then, when content gets dumpster'd we're blamed again. Then, when your precious builds and classes get nerfed we are blamed AGAIN. You see the pattern here? You can have a completely chill, hardcore person making suggestions, and then the casual person can suddenly go off screaming about the fact they don't have time, they have a family, or insert some other overused excuse here.

    Newsflash. We have jobs. We have families. We have other hobbies. Being hardcore is fun to US. So, the fact WE are always criticized and always slapped at and always screamed us tends to kitten people off after awhile. All because raids/PvP/T4 fractals and whatever else is left is the falt gw2 is going downhill. Casuals say they want us to be kind, but you have to also RETURN said respect instead of simply demanding it just because your skills don't come up to par with the raiders/PvPers/wvwers/Fractalers

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You'll find just as many definitions of "casual" and "hardcore" as you will find players, everyone has their own personal definition and though I applaud the effort to get some kind of understanding amongst all the different players of GW2 I don't think that it's possible. I wouldn't even call your examples from Astralporing are entirely irrelevant but the last line, their personal definition is the closest thing you might come to as being spot on, but again, it doesn't apply to everyone and no definition of "casual" or "hardcore" will ever be able to do that.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    The way I see this discussion is: every time a definition is asked of casual and hardcore, you get totally different answers depending on who you ask. There's really no consensus on what these terms means, on the developer, publisher or player level. Everybody's got different answers!

  • joneirikb.7506joneirikb.7506 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    I think the biggest misconception is to divide players into either casual or hardcore, they are terms to represent the extremes not the average/every player. If I exaggerated and said that 10% of players are casuals and 10% are hardcore, then that would still leave 80% of "normal" players. And from my reading of this thread, I'd say those numbers would probably fit this discussion pretty well.

    For the most part I just find the discussion of "casual vs hardcore" to be another "us vs them" in some variant, which means it usually goes nowhere.


    If anything I think the "casual vs hardcore" is a detriment to trying to understand players motivation, humans have a bad habit of trying to compress things into two options "right and wrong", and force their own values on those. I think a more practical system would be to create a list of keywords for people to use to explain their "motivation" in-game. Examples: Self-improvement, challenge, rewards, achivement, story, etc (by no means a complete list, just some examples to set idea).

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Daddicus.6128 said:
    What are "casual" and "hardcore" in GW2?

    Hardcore have no chill.

    There are a lot of great points made about the distinction in this thread, but for me, this is pretty much it. It doesn't have anything to do with time spent, or skill, or dedication to craft or optimization, it's all, 100%, about attitude. The definition in the OP is a nice one in that regard, but I think it misses the mark in suggesting that a casual player cannot be dedicated to min/maxing, bc a lot of casual players might find that fun. For me, the distinction is sharpest in how players react to failure. A casual, even a dedicated casual, can still see a failed raid as time well spent if they had fun. A hardcore player will not. Casuals in a competitive mode will line up for another fight after they lose, while the hardcore will ragequit. This is bc for a casual playing the game is the goal, while for the hardcore it's all about 'winning' or 'beating the game'. I think that's where misunderstandings about toxicity and elitism come in. A casual might feel other players are behaving badly when they won't just let them have fun playing the game, while for the hardcore an important part of their identity is that there exist other players who are less skilled. It's easy to see how that could create conflict but in neither case is it really about the other players, it's just that the attitudes of players from the two groups don't mesh well . . .

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    It's raiding in raid centric games historically that have muddied the waters. Raids requires a very particular playstyle which is heavy rote and simplifed/optimised roles (minmex dps for e.g in fight x). This in conjunction with content and gear races drove behaviours ie you must play to a schedule or your benched, or you can't join our team unless you commit to our schedule, your gear must be maintained at level x. This eventually bled into the concept of being 'hardcore'.. 'I'm a hardcore min maxer'. Says the player in his guild application.

    Outwith raiding you will easily see players who minimax but over a period of years - skill wise they end up no different or better/worse than hardcore players who schedule aggressively and put the schedule ahead of much of the other things going on in their life.

    That's what it boils down to, how do you prioritise the game against real life, and are you playing/forced to play where the schedule is paramount.

    Gw pitched itself very differently, no gear race, and raiding is much more niche, so hardcore gameplay is not rewarded as much, hence its such a great game imo.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm one of the few who is new to the game, but falls into the description of the veteran. I just fell into the game and absorbed everything. I want to do everything, except content that relies on others.

    I think casual and hardcore needs a scale in every aspect of a game.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2020

    @Gop.8713 said:
    For me, the distinction is sharpest in how players react to failure. A casual, even a dedicated casual, can still see a failed raid as time well spent if they had fun. A hardcore player will not.

    True, but it's not as clearcut as you might think. A casual is not going to see a failed raid (even a training one) as a time well spent if they didn't have fun. A hardcore on the other hand might consider several hours of constantly wiping on boss as a time well spent, because it allowed him to learn the boss mechanic better, and "progress". While considering a single wipe on already "cleared" boss to be a bad experience he'd rather not have.
    That's because in both cases the source of fun is different.

    A casual might feel other players are behaving badly when they won't just let them have fun playing the game, while for the hardcore an important part of their identity is that there exist other players who are less skilled.

    More like, for the hardcore, the less skilled players, by making mistakes or not being efficient enough, seem to be actively ruin their fun. Not all hardcores need to be better than others. Some just want to be better than "yesterday's themselves", or good enough to "overcome the challenge presented by the game".

    It's easy to see how that could create conflict but in neither case is it really about the other players, it's just that the attitudes of players from the two groups don't mesh well . . .

    This. Like i said in the post Daddicus quoted at the beginning of the thread, the difference between casual and hardcore is in attitude - in the mentality and the way you look at the game. And those attitudes very often directly clash with each other.

    In the end, it's often not a good idea for those people to be placed together in an environment where both sides' definitions of fun might go against each other.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Rauderi.8706Rauderi.8706 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gop.8713 said:
    important part of their identity

    Highlighted for a very important chunk of that text. And that's why some folks have no chill when it comes to outcomes.
    Not enough gold/hr? Froth.
    A good-enough raid party isn't "good enough"? Froth. Then kick.
    Fractal CM takes 5 seconds longer to reach the shiny? Quote ArcDPS to abuse whoever's lowest.

    There is a severe lack of empathy and overflow of narcissism when a person crosses the threshold of "a game I play" to "my game".

    Many alts! Handle it!

    "A condescending answer might as well not be an answer at all."
    -Eloc Freidon.5692

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rauderi.8706 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    important part of their identity

    Highlighted for a very important chunk of that text. And that's why some folks have no chill when it comes to outcomes.
    Not enough gold/hr? Froth.
    A good-enough raid party isn't "good enough"? Froth. Then kick.
    Fractal CM takes 5 seconds longer to reach the shiny? Quote ArcDPS to abuse whoever's lowest.

    There is a severe lack of empathy and overflow of narcissism when a person crosses the threshold of "a game I play" to "my game".

    Notice, though, that it works both ways. If you are the one player that constantly wipes the group or drags it back, and you're not taking the hint, then you are also trying to enforce your kind of game on everyone else. That is why you should not put players with different goals in one mode, when their goals may end up conflicting - there is no right or wrong in such a case, only a lot of fun ruined for everyone all around.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Wisty.4135Wisty.4135 Member ✭✭✭

    Casual vs hardcore has always been "how seriously the game is taken" sort of vibe. For example, I tend to play top tier raid builds and focus on being high DPS/healing in those contexts - pretty serious. In PvP or WvW, I'm gold 3/plat 1 (rank 300 in wvw), but I run around with my trusty mace/shield hammer core warrior... Not serious at all. All other definitions can sorta fall under the same umbrella of "seriousness" I think

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    For me, the distinction is sharpest in how players react to failure. A casual, even a dedicated casual, can still see a failed raid as time well spent if they had fun. A hardcore player will not.

    True, but it's not as clearcut as you might think. A casual is not going to see a failed raid (even a training one) as a time well spent if they didn't have fun. A hardcore on the other hand might consider several hours of constantly wiping on boss as a time well spent, because it allowed him to learn the boss mechanic better, and "progress". While considering a single wipe on already "cleared" boss to be a bad experience he'd rather not have.
    That's because in both cases the source of fun is different.

    A casual might feel other players are behaving badly when they won't just let them have fun playing the game, while for the hardcore an important part of their identity is that there exist other players who are less skilled.

    More like, for the hardcore, the less skilled players, by making mistakes or not being efficient enough, seem to be actively ruin their fun. Not all hardcores need to be better than others. Some just want to be better than "yesterday's themselves", or good enough to "overcome the challenge presented by the game".

    It's easy to see how that could create conflict but in neither case is it really about the other players, it's just that the attitudes of players from the two groups don't mesh well . . .

    This. Like i said in the post Daddicus quoted at the beginning of the thread, the difference between casual and hardcore is in attitude - in the mentality and the way you look at the game. And those attitudes very often directly clash with each other.

    In the end, it's often not a good idea for those people to be placed together in an environment where both sides' definitions of fun might go against each other.

    and that is why wow worked so well for many years, casuals could level new races/classes, and the hardcores could raid.
    see how well wow is doing without new low level content now.

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    My take on the casual vs hardcore debate is that, at least to some extent, we should stop tearing at each other and take a look at how Anet's own design choices promote a "hard to trespass" gap among the player base.

    GW2 has a very low skill floor, which means that you can enjoy a "full" game experience by quite literally going up to everything and auto-attacking it. You will not be doing several pieces of content, but you will be able to do most living world stuff and main stories of expansions with a mere pressing of extra keys here and there. This is neither a good nor bad thing, it's just an explicit design choice on behalf of the developers - "our game will be very gameplay friendly so that it can be immediately accessed by practically anyone" is the idea here.

    On the other hand, the nature of combat and how the overall setting is action-oriented and relies on the environment makes it so that the skill ceiling is absurdly high. The differences in average auto-attacking and random spamming damage of a class to what it can do through optimized activation orders, positioning and traits are immense at more than 25k DPS in most cases, which is quite a lot when you consider this is the entire average HP of the classes with the highest HP. So Anet has actually gone through some length (perhaps unintentionally) to please both crowds of what are perceived as players who do not mind much about optimization ("casuals") and players who strive to crunch numbers away and hit performance quotas set by themselves ("hardcore"). This, of course, might end up displeasing and has displeased everyone since there are unique rewards (and this is not wrong to exist either, just putting it here as fact) for content that actually requires some effort, even if a very small one, towards the optimization route, and also because both kinds of players are being pitted into the same content at most times (playing ranked sPvP, for example, is much better for rewards even if you're bound to get your kitten kicked 60% of the time and drag down people who actually wanted to make the climb).

    While there is no easy solution to this we should acknowledge it is not only a player-based issue and also stems from design choices that promote large gaps in between skills floor and ceiling. Whether or not the gaps should be that large is up to debate but not whether or not they are explicitly decided by Anet.

  • Endless Soul.5178Endless Soul.5178 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Endless Soul.5178 said:
    This describes me perfectly. However, I have spent 6,547 hours in the game since March, 2015 when I first switched over from Guild Wars 1. So, am I a casual or hardcore?

    For me, playing time doesn't decide that.

    So, maybe you just have a lot of free time, or nothing better to do instead, or both. Who knows? Those things do not mean someone is suddenly hardcore (or even dedicated).

    As an extreme example, i wouldn't call a couch potato a "hardcore tv viewer".

    That's a good point because I spent a lot of those hours relaxing and roleplaying in various spots across Tyria, instead of doing content or whatever else.

    EDIT: Deleted repeated word.

    Asura characters: Zerina | Myndee | Bekka | Akee | Feyyt | Nuumy | Tylee | Rissa | Jaxxi | Sixx | Claara | Conii | Jymm | Synn | Zeena

    Your skin will wrinkle and your youth will fade but your soul is endless

  • JackassTheX.6351JackassTheX.6351 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    I think you can be both in different areas of the game, as people have mentioned before (especially the lady with 11 legendaries who did nothing but gather).

    If I look at myself, I've gone from casual to hardcore and back a few times. I started out casual back in 2012 and I gave up on the game less than a year in because I wanted to play hard content but there was nothing to really be hardcore on. I came back in 2018 and first, I was a hardcore grinder, doing nothing but farming Elder Wood with the idea of getting gold for creating a meta DPS character so I could finally run T4 Fractals. I then moved to "hardcore" fractal leveling and getting to 100 and getting 150AR. I did NOTHING but dailies and fractals for days, weeks, months even. Fast forward 1 year and I have 5 fully ascended characters with min/maxed meta builds for different roles. Then, when I was able to clear T4s on a daily basis, I didn't feel like going the extra mile for CMs because they seemed too elitist and toxic. So I moved on to farming gold in various ways for a Legendary weapon. I was 100% goal focused and it seemed like "work" in a sense, but it was fun watching the numbers go up and feeling like I'm slowly chipping away at something. Pressing F and zerging around Palawadan isn't really skillful, but the intensity and determination with which I approached it is what I'd call the "hardcore" component of this behaviour. I got two Legendaries that way and now I just play story and do the occasional meta.

    Another example: getting XP in GW is probably the most easy and skilless thing I can think of since you get XP for pretty much anything and everything you do, gathering, events, kills, etc. Yet, when I decided to max my HoT mastery levels, I did all the HoT adventures on Gold daily and I did at least one HoT meta per day. Adventures are sorta hard, but not something I'd call content for "hardcore" players. Metas aren't really hard either. So that's both and nothing at the same time. But again, I'd consider this "hardcore" playing because I dedicated a sizeable portion of my free time to it.

    So TL;DR you can play easy content with a hardcore mentality, or you can play hard content with a casual mentality. Just my 2 cents.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    hardcore = thousands of skins and using all shiniest stuff to bright like a living sun.

    You're thinking of Fortnite.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • XYLO.7031XYLO.7031 Member ✭✭✭

    I always go back to core GW2 before the existence of Raids which made this game like every other mmo out there.

    Open world metas and world bosses will and always will be the bread and butter of this game. TT World boss requires both 'hardcore' leaders to organize the event and the many many casuals who zerg. This world boss requires commanders, blockers, and optional condi if the blockers let husks out along with people who can keep the blockers pocket clear of added vets. Zerg do the mechanics of each wurm to activate the wurm's burn phase.

    My point is: well-developed world bosses and metas require both communities in cooperation to run these things. Any open world content that brings everyone together has always been the heart and soul of the game. Closed content is not and cannot bring these communities together in the sheer volume that open world does and will always do.

    This type of content makes the experienced, 'hardcore' type more approachable when they help the casuals learn in specialized, training before and during the boss run. Additionally, the best runs don't fail even when training new people at TT.

    By contrast, the cost in time is high when training for the small, closed-instance content in game. If people aren't getting a decent return on their time investment, why do it? Does it matter if you're casual or hardcore if you're not getting back something of value in return for your time?

    Of course not. The RPer always gets value from every moment they're in character. The small, gymkhana guild gets value from hitting their ramps and drift bowls throughout the open world. Bear in mind there are no achievement points to incentivize their respective playstyles or shinies for that matter. What they do and who they are has intrinsic value which is beyond any shiny or achievement point you can have in-game.

    Are they hardcore? For some, Yes. Just not in the traditional mmo sense of min-maxers who see their closed-runs as a speedrun opportunity and throw their own under the bus if they don't reach optimal clear times.

    GW2 started as a game that allows you to play how you want to play and should stay that way. If you're hardcore in something in-game, find people who are like-minded and leave other people alone. Same goes if you're casual.

    I could never agree with the mentality that there is only one way to enjoy something and that others should be forced into it. Do the things you like and you'll find people who share those interests.

    Eponymously known as 'Tanya' despite many alts
    Beetle Gymkhana @ Crimson Post Reset TT
    Home Course: Bloodtide Coast, Spiral Track aka Bloodtide Slide

  • Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm very casual; I explore every map, find things to do and I don't follow meta. That being said, I will follow a meta if it is required. I don't want to rush through this game and feel burnt out. I came close a few times, but that was me needing to get away from the internet. XD

    There is a reason the old paths are behind us; the only way we can see what's in front of us is to look forward and remember why the old paths were left behind.
    Resident Hug Addict and Fire Extinguisher

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.
    More time invested?
    More money invested?
    Loyalty?
    Highest DPS?

    Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.
    There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" players
    They just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

    Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

    Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.
    You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.
    Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?
    Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

    This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.
    For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.
    You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.
    More time invested?
    More money invested?
    Loyalty?
    Highest DPS?

    Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.
    There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" players
    They just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

    Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

    Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.
    You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.
    Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?
    Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

    This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.
    For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.
    You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

    If Johnny truly was a casual, why would he even try to solo a legendary by himself?

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 7, 2020

    IMHO: Casuals play 0-4 hours per day, Hardcore play more. Done.

    (but really, Maddoctor is right, you can also be
    Hardcore in attitude, and casual in time-commitment
    or
    Hardcore time-commitment and casual in attitude).

    Thief OP? Better nerf Scourge ... again.
    Hashtag BlameMcLain

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    How do you define Hardcore in Gw2.. could be one of many ways.
    More time invested?
    More money invested?
    Loyalty?
    Highest DPS?

    Tbh I think the terms Casual and Hardcore are pretty vague in Gw2's case.
    There's plenty of people who would be defined as Casual who've put far more time and money into the game than some of the more "hardcore" players
    They just spent that time doing more casual things.. RPing, chilling out in towns chatting, helping people, running tons of alts through the game, Unlocking as many skins as they feel like doing etc rather than making the whole game about how high their damage numbers can get and how fast they can beat certain content.

    Thinking about it I don't feel these two terms really work for this game in the same way they do with others which is fine considering Gw2 is kind of unique as MMO's go anyway.

    Say your a true highest DPS super man of your class with the best meta build and perfect rotation and you see johnny casual with a custom PvE build over there try to solo a legendary bounty.
    You jump in with your awesome god tier meta DPS build and end up getting downed 5-10 times during the fight while johnny casual doesn't die once and spends a chunk of his time reviving you.
    Are you really going to be so convinced in that scenario that you are the hardcore player and johnny is the casual?
    Sure you may have done more damage and helped kill the boss faster.. but johnny could have done it all by himself and didn't need your help at all.. and likewise he was the only reason you even survived the fight as well.

    This is part of what I love about Gw2, There are just so many different ways to play the game as you want to play it.. regardless of your class preference.
    For me that makes terms like casual and hardcore kinda vague.
    You maybe hardcore in raids or WvW, but you could be little more than a revive icon to most people in PvE.. same goes in reverse too.

    If Johnny truly was a casual, why would he even try to solo a legendary by himself?

    For fun, a number of players enjoy challenging the strongest enemies alone just for the fun of it, or to test out a build or just to prove they can beat it.

    The reference to johnny casual was more to do with how some players have looked at other players in the past.
    Using the "wrong weapons, rotations or skills".. basically judging people as casuals or inexperienced by what weapons or skills they're using.
    Hell even entire classes at one point were a point of condemnation.
    I used to get a lot of flak several years ago for taking a LB Ranger into dungeons.. because it wasn't the highest DPS weapon and rangers sucked apaprently lol
    Not to mention in the early days of Gw1, lots of flak for choosing a Necromancer.. because Necros had kitten damage and also they sucked apparently XD.
    I believe some people to this day still judge like that although it's not as common now as it used to be, or at the very least people are not as vocal about it as they used to be.

    There's just so many different ways to play this game that concepts like hardcore and casual don't really have that much of a place in it really.
    A Hardcore PVP player could be a total Casual in PvE.
    A Hardcore Raider could be a total Casual in WvW.
    A Hardcore PvE player could be a total Causal in Raids.

    Do you need to be Hardcore in every gamemode to truly deserve to identify yourself as a Hardcore player?.. I'd say no personally but that's just me.
    But that does lead to conflicting opinions on what defines a Hardcore and a Casual between those of different preferred game modes and playstyles.