Balance Patch Preview - PvP - Page 7 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

Balance Patch Preview - PvP

145791012

Comments

  • "Spike Trap: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Adjusted bleeding from 6 stacks from 6.25 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds" There will be very little reason to take up a slot for this one, imo. I would rather see that you removed the CC from it and let it do condi damage... 1 stack for 1 sec.. No, just no

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Mirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds

    so whats the cd cuz the global changes says its 5 sec. why even have this here if the cd is remaining the same? its confusing.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Mirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds

    so whats the cd cuz the global changes says its 5 sec. why even have this here if the cd is remaining the same? its confusing.

    it will not change after patch : 5 sec for PVE -> 8 sec for PvP like usual.

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Mirror Blade: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 8 seconds

    so whats the cd cuz the global changes says its 5 sec. why even have this here if the cd is remaining the same? its confusing.

    it will not change after patch : 5 sec for PVE -> 8 sec for PvP like usual.

    in this thread ya it says from 5 to 8 seconds cd which I thought was a typo since the global thread in professions says 5. why mention it at all if it isn't changing? the wording is weird and I guess i'm the only one whos confused about this.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    I'll just repost what I wrote in the engi forum:

    It is weird how they're nerfing some already awful traits to be even worse. Like, at some point you might as well not even have a trait. Did anyone think about how much these traits were actually contributing in a fight before they went at them with the nerf stick?

    Eg. in the Firearms line:

    Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second

    So for reference, Sharpshooter is: 33% chance on crit, cause bleeding for 3s.

    So if you crit, and if you get the sharpshooter proc (~18-20% chance of this happening on a deadshot amulet) and it's not cleansed, you're currently going to get a whopping 433 damage after factoring in expertise / condi duration extensions. If we multiply by the proc chance, that's about 86.7 damage per hit. That's .. really not good.

    Cutting this to 1/3 of its current value is perplexing. It's barely doing anything now. After the patch, it'll be doing less than 1/3 of this. 28 dph? Twenty. Eight.

    I'm more perplexed than anything. The fact that it's getting nerfed means someone looked at it and thought 87 dph was too much. What even?

    Overall though, great patch. I am optimistic about most of these changes.

  • @Azure The Heartless.3261 @viquing.8254 @ZDragon.3046

    Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance. For reasons unknown, good suggestions have rarely been implemented, in favor of nerfing around the root issues, leaving traitlines in tatters, introducing clunky mechanics, and leaving but a few playable builds. If it happens, this proposed endurance nerf may be the final nail in the coffin for the class of casual 50%+ nerfs. That may be music to some peoples' ears, but I do hope I'm wrong.

  • Ok let me start of by saying that I do like the idea of this patch. Less extreme spamming of a bunch of stuff with like longer cooldowns and some more purity of purpose on skills sounds quite nice. Generally a good direction for the future I'd say and I hope to see even more culling of extremes. Regardless if it is extreme damage or extreme survivability.
    But...
    If I could change one thing for necromancer, it would be the damage on executioner's scythe. This is a change that kinda ruins the theme of the skill.
    I feel like they looked at this skill from the wrong angle.
    Because it isn't a CC skill with some (more or less decent) damage added on top of it, it's a damage skill that also has a CC portion. It is supposed to be a "finisher move".
    I mean, it even scales damage with the enemy's health which is absolutely pointless if the coefficients are basically 0.
    Reduce the scaling to something like 1.25/1.5/1.82 or whatever, but don't just erase all damage on it. Especially since it's a slow single target skill, despite what it may look like.
    Just applying everything exactly the same way to every skill that falls in a certain category isn't always good since a few of them started at way different levels.
    Losing the damage from a skill like static field might be annoying, but that damage was more "nice to have", rather than really that big of a deal. With executioner's scythe on the other hand, it's a big deal losing basically all damage on it.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2020

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance.

    Nah, I get it. And like I said, there have been and continue to be reasonable mesmers. Just, there's also unreasonable ones that are exploiting the design flaw and calling it fair pretty kitten loudly. That group is who the vitriol is for.

    For reasons unknown, good suggestions have rarely been implemented, in favor of nerfing around the root issues, leaving traitlines in tatters, introducing clunky mechanics, and leaving but a few playable builds.

    It's probably due to the above. The devs are aware some mechanics promote what they have themselves described as degenerate play, but for some reason they have an aversion to changing the specs a whole lot. It might be because they were preparing for this, it might not be; who knows.

    this proposed endurance nerf may be the final nail in the coffin for the class of casual 50%+ nerfs. That may be music to some peoples' ears, but I do hope I'm wrong.

    I am hoping that as well, or that a less extreme solution that has similar effects on balancing the spec mechanically gets proposed (and taken into consideration) instead.

    [Charr Noises]
    [I play every class!]
    [I don't share builds!]
    [Fight me in the arena anytime!]

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I think it'd be better if they prioritized damage over CC on weapon skills.
    Remove the CC on weapon skills across the board and give back the damage.
    The CC from traits and utilities already is significantly higher than what is healthy for a game mode that is based on players interacting with each other.

    Yup, that's what I'm saying. Instead of going in the CC over Damage direction, I think we need to take away or reduce CC on many skills and preserve the damage coefficients.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Dralor.3701Dralor.3701 Member ✭✭✭

    Haven’t had time to read all the comments so I apologize if this has been asked but...

    Evade frames? Protection? Aegis? It seems like you are going ham on damage and not even paying attention to other forms of sustain outside of flat healing.

    One of the biggest issues this games has with pvp is evade and stealth uptime on thief/Mesmer. I don’t have a nicer way to say it but this sounds like more bad design that hasn’t fully been thought through or tested.

  • cyberzombie.7348cyberzombie.7348 Member ✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    While this sounds mostly promising, my biggest concern is how this will truly pan out with overall damage and healing being reduced yet damage mitigation remaining intact.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Thief

    Weapons

    Short Bow

    • Trick Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.55 to 0.366
    • Detonate Cluster Bomb (Cluster Bomb): Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.375
    • Disabling Shot: Increased initiative cost from 4 to 5

    Sword

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.6/0.6/1.3 to 0.4/0.4/0.866
    • Infiltrator's Strike: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5
    • Flanking Strike: Reduced power cofficient from 0.8 to 0.5
    • Pistol Whip: Reduced initial hit power coefficient from 0.37 to 0.01. Reduced stun duration from 0.75 seconds to 0.5 seconds. Reduced flurry hit power coefficients from 0.79 to 0.53. Increased initiative cost from 5 to 6.

    Dagger MH

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.6/0.65/1.1 to 0.4/0.433/0.733
    • Shadow Shot: Increased intiative cost from 4 to 5
    • Death Blossom: Increased initiative cost from 4 to 5
    • Backstab: Reduced base power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.9. Reduced flanking power coefficient from 2.4 to 1.8

    Pistol MH

    • Vital Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.575 to 0.383
    • Unload: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.4 to 0.27. Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Sneak Attack: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.36 to 0.3

    Dagger OH

    • Dancing Dagger: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45

    Staff

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.666/0.666/1.672 to 0.444/0.444/1.114
    • Weakening Charge: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second
    • Debilitating Arc: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 5
    • Dust Strike: Increased vulnerability stacks from 5 to 8
    • Vault: Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6
    • Hook Strike: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.01

    Rifle

    • Brutal Aim: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.4
    • Deadly Aim: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.533
    • Spotter's Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Increased immobilize duration from 1 second to 1.5 seconds
    • Double Tap: Reduced might stacks per hit from 3 to 1. Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.65 to 0.5
    • Three Round Burst: Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.55 to 0.5. Reduced might stacks per hit from 3 to 1
    • Death's Retreat: Increased initiative cost from 5 to 6
    • Death's Judgment: Reduced power coefficient from 1.65 to 1.11

    Heal

    • Skelk Venom: Reduced initial heal coefficient from 0.75 to 0.4. Reduced initial base heal from 4210 to 3578
    • Withdraw: Increased cooldown from 18 seconds to 25 seconds. Increased base heal from 4778 to 5243
    • Channeled Vigor: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds
    • Malicious Restoration: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

    Utility

    • Smoke Screen: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 35 seconds
    • Pitfall: Reduced power coefficient of the knockdown strike from 1.25 to 0.01. Reduced power coefficient of the pulsing strikes from 0.5 to 0.3
    • Infiltrator's Signet: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
    • Haste: Reduced quickness duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds. Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 45 seconds
    • Roll for Initiative: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 50 seconds
    • Scorpion Wire: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01
    • Skale Venom: Reduced vulnerability duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Bandit's Defense: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds
    • Reflexive Strike (from Bandit's Defense): Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.01
    • Distracting Daggers: Reduced power coefficient from 0.55 to 0.25
    • Impairing Daggers: Reduced slow duration from 5 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Fist Flurry: Reduced overall power coefficient from 3.75 to 2.5
    • Palm Strike (from Fist Flurry): Reduced initial power coefficient from 1.75 to 0.01
    • Binding Shadow: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced vulnerability duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Shadow Gust: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.01

    Elite

    • Dagger Storm: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.4
    • Uppercut (from Impact Strike): Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 0.01
    • Finishing Blow (from Impact Strike): Increased power coefficient from 2.0 to 2.5
    • Shadow Meld: Reduced stealth duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

    Traits

    Deadly Arts

    • Lotus Poison: Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Mug: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.75
    • Even the Odds: Reduced might and vulnerability durations from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Panic Strike: Reduced poison duration from 2 seconds to 1 second
    • Potent Poison: Reduced bonus poison duration from 20% to 5%

    Critical Strikes

    • Assassin's Fury: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced might stacks from 3 to 2
    • Ankle Shots: Reduced cripple duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

    Shadow Arts

    • Merciful Ambush: Reduced revive percentage from 3% to 1%
    • Shadow's Rejuvenation: Reduced base heal from 293 to 219

    Acrobatics

    • Feline Grace: Reduced vigor duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Endless Stamina: Reduced concentration from 240 to 60
    • Pain Response: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 60 seconds
    • Hard to Catch: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
    • Instant Reflexes: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    Trickery

    • Uncatchable: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second
    • Lesser Haste (from Burst of Agility): Reduced quickness duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Bountiful Theft: Reduced number of boons removed from 3 to 2
    • Thrill of the Crime: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds

    Daredevil

    • Weakening Strikes: Reduced weakness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Escapist's Fortitude: Reduced base heal from 456 to 150
    • Pulmonary Impact (from Impacting Disruption): Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.75
    • Lotus Training: Reduced power coefficient from 0.1875 to 0.0625. Reduced bleeding duration from 4 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Reduced torment duration from 4 seconds to 1.5 seconds. Increased bonus condition damage from 10% to 15%
    • Bounding Dodger: Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%

    Deadeye

    • Payback: This has been unsplit and will use the lower (20%) recharge value in all modes
    • Premeditation: Reduced concentration from 180 to 60
    • Be Quick or Be Killed: Reduced quickness duration from 4 seconds to 2.5 seconds
    • Maleficent Seven: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Fire for Effect: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds

    Gotta touch thief a bit more.... They are going to be S tier after patch.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coro.3176 said:

    Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second

    Yes it's awkward.. 1 second isn't even enough to keep up a single bleed as a cover condition. But oh well, it was pointless before and so it is now as well.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    @Azure The Heartless.3261 @viquing.8254 @ZDragon.3046

    Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance. For reasons unknown, good suggestions have rarely been implemented, in favor of nerfing around the root issues, leaving traitlines in tatters, introducing clunky mechanics, and leaving but a few playable builds. If it happens, this proposed endurance nerf may be the final nail in the coffin for the class of casual 50%+ nerfs. That may be music to some peoples' ears, but I do hope I'm wrong.

    Np, it's jut that the historic mesmer community has for the most part already leave the game.
    And yeah it's true that they were globally for nerfs.

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance.

    Nah, I get it. And like I said, there have been and continue to be reasonable mesmers. Just, there's also unreasonable ones that are exploiting the design flaw and calling it fair pretty kitten loudly. That group is who the vitriol is for.

    Don't forget to come back with a pic of your top 50 or winning mAt mirage next patch.
    Proves mean better than smooth talking and spikes.
    It Remember me that it's true that there is group in this forum who will whine whine as long as mesmer exist.
    If you want a spike battle we can play this game too, it look pretty funny :
    Like just there's also unreasonables ones that are making balance suggestions while not even able to perform with what they want to nerf, calling it op, bad designed or cheesy pretty loudly.
    You see ? It's fun how words work in the opposite too.

  • James.1065James.1065 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    I like the changes and feel it's a move in the right direction.

    However, reducing the stability on Reaper "terrify" is going to make it more of a ping pong ball than it already is.

    Also reducing reaper great sword damage by so much, should also warrant an increase in it's attack speed. Half time you use it enemies have high animated swings and nearly 1,5 secs react time so they either dodge or walk out of range, with the changes now when you do finally land a hit it will not even do damage

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    What's with the condi engi nerf?

    Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second
    Serrated Steel: Reduced bonus bleeding duration from 33% to 15%
    Incendiary Powder: Reduced bonus burning duration from 33% to 10%. Reduced burning duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds

    Condi engi does barely any damage as for now, @coro.3176 did the math of bleeding from Sharpshooter:

    Sharpshooter: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second

    So for reference, Sharpshooter is: 33% chance on crit, cause bleeding for 3s.

    So if you crit, and if you get the sharpshooter proc (**~18-20% chance of this happening on a deadshot amulet) and it's not cleansed, you're currently going to get a whopping 433 damage after factoring in expertise / condi duration extensions. If we multiply by the proc chance, that's about 86.7 damage per hit. That's .. really not good.

    Cutting this to 1/3 of its current value is perplexing. It's barely doing anything now. After the patch, it'll be doing less than 1/3 of this. 28 dph? Twenty. Eight.

    I'm more perplexed than anything. The fact that it's getting nerfed means someone looked at it and thought 87 dph was too much. What even?

    Exactly, what even? Can you re-thing this change please? Condi engi used to be a great spec back a few years ago, and now... it does exactly the same as before, which is barely anything, with stuff like Sigil of Cleansing present, which can clease all the condi from "spike" engi can do with a single weapon swap.

    [NUKE]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    The team should reconsider just replacing the passive traits rather than a cd increase of 300, 100 is fine otherwise ur just changing the traits to ensure they fall into the never used pile that's already to large in gw2 as is. Does the team really think a trait giving 2 sec of invulnerability or few seconds of stability is so strong that it warrants only 2 or so procs in a entire match? If so good luck with that.

  • "Eating pop corn :# and watching the forum with all his salt, hope and despair"

    Maybe thief will be The only meta, sd thief vs condi thief vs deadeye vs dp thief = Thiefs wars 2 (a nice name btw)

    Maybe we'll see no mirage anymore in pvp, maybe Weaver can't vs many ppl anymore, 1 pet for the slb in fight .?? the second one was used just to run away =) and more and more....

    I don't have any idea of how it's gonna be after the patch and i don't have any judgment till the patch fall.

    I just hope (really) that @net have done some good tests before, with a real pvp players and they'll be super reactive to fix any oppeness cuz in the past with just a patch with 20-30 changes, they took weeks maybe months to react, what's gonna be with a patch with a TON of changes.....will see.

    Troll since 1988.

  • TEMPEST
    Elemental Bastion: Increased internal cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds. Reduced base heal from 522 to 391. Reduced healing coefficient from 0.55 to 0.4125
    Increased CD is fine and ok for me. But reduced base heal makes me gasp.
    Weaver was sooo superior compared to tempest and with this detail-change it will remain superior.
    Please rethink and give tempest a chance to compete in PvP again.
    In terms of the whole patch, its a great job dev-team has done. When all this changes will get balanced the next months, then I think that "PvP IS ALIVE" :)

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    @Azure The Heartless.3261 @viquing.8254 @ZDragon.3046

    Just want to acknowledge your nice replies without derailing too much. Apologies if I sounded harsh. I just feel the dedicated Mes community has for the most part been pretty reasonable concerning balance. For reasons unknown, good suggestions have rarely been implemented, in favor of nerfing around the root issues, leaving traitlines in tatters, introducing clunky mechanics, and leaving but a few playable builds. If it happens, this proposed endurance nerf may be the final nail in the coffin for the class of casual 50%+ nerfs. That may be music to some peoples' ears, but I do hope I'm wrong.

    I mean i know the feeling considering scourge is not viable due to wvw changes back when things were still tied together. To be clear i dont dislike it to the point i want it to not exist. I can tolerate mirages even though i dont ever light fighting them but i cant tolerate when something is bluntly imbalanced past a certain point. My call out to the old CI mirage was more of a reference to one particular point in time that is easy for anyone who has played in that past year to recall if anything.

    But YOU ARE NOT WRONG to vent your own frustration here from that perspective.
    Balance is just so rough to nail and players who have god complex (not everyone obviously) while playing questionably super oppressive builds dont help decrease peoples frustration for an elite or build any profession might use which can quickly lead to a "Delete this class" thread and we have seen more last and going into this year than ever before @[email protected].

    Moving back to the mirage issue that so many people are concerned about.
    I think that anet however might possibly be going super strict on it because of how much it was used and sheer number of complaints thats come up about it over the past year along with the general subject of people hating on "Evasive skills or traits that do damage" which was noted to be one of their biggest things they would be looking into.

    Lowering the endurance cap might not be the wrong way to go in theory, but by how much? 50 might actually be too much. Perhaps maybe even letting them keep 100 endurance and just making evasive activations cost slight more than 50 points based on clones up at the time. I think there is room for rebalancing IH other than just shaving 50 points especially if people really do think that removing 50 points will erase the elite completely how ever now is the time to figure out how to rebalance it so that its a bit more fair for the power it provides.

    Anet has a bad history of making questionable choices with traits across several professions even right now with the removal of say foot in the grave & spectral mastery some time ago for example in necromancers case combined with the fact that the cooldowns on spectral defenses are increasing with no options to reduce them its got me like 🤔🤔🤔.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    Got some questions...
    Traits that boost power/precision/ferocity ... why they are not getting nerfed as well?

    This is a good question but its possibly one of those things where if they do it to 1 profession expect it to be done to every profession so i think this one is more of a careful what you ask for kind of question.

    Thief & Bundle.
    What will happen to CONSUME PLASMA? It will be OP-overloaded as hell? Because couldnt find any changes on it. Even being interrupted he doesnt lose it and unpunished, how did it pass?

    Also a good question so long as boon duration drops a bit on it i think it would be fine though. How ever we have to remember its not something a thief will get all the time only if they can successfuly steal from a mesmer which is likely why it got a pass there is a 1/9 chance of being able to even steal this in a match if the match has no mesmer you wont ever get the bundle.

    Binding shadow - can you remove the immobilize, so this skill wouldnt need a breakstun and cleanse(at the same time) to get out of it ?

    I feel like it just needs to reveal on cast so it cant pop you out of stealth. If you see it coming you can almost always evade this. Only when they use it from stealth is it ever really a problem imo.

    Elementalist.
    Lightning rod turns every CC into DMG spike with a weakness on it, no icd. I'd like to remind that power block (on mesmer) has 3s icd, cant crit and procs on interrupt . We had a trait with exact the same functionality - "lost time" on chrono before and it did half of LROD damage, it was deleted entirely. Disable the crits at least, may be?

    This is questionable. Mind that power-block cant crit but it does basically reset a cooldown if it interrupts a person during a cast which depending on what skill is interrupted can be more powerful than just out right damage. Each skill kind of has their own niche. At best i would say dont nerf lightning rods damage anymore just making it only proc on interrupting and not just any disable would bring it more in line with powerblock.

    Engineer.
    AED (engi heal) escaped the nerfs?

    Its basically some what like defiant stance/hearld heal not really sure it needs to be touched.

    Warrior.
    Also want to remind that "Attacker's Insight" is an overloaded trait, aside REFRESHING warrior's burst skill it does give a stat boost (which is super easy to get and keep) 225 power and 225 ferocity (450 overall), thats waaaaay too much.

    This is more so one of those things that if you change it the other 8 professions also need to receive more stat nerfs. Its the careful what you wish for situation imo. I want to think they purposely left stat increasing traits alone because of the removal of some of the amulets and the overall drop to scaling power hits across the board ontop of the fact that most cc wont do damage its a lot of damage removed from the game so removing stats like these might remove way more damage than intended as they might already be riding a fine line between removing too much dps across the board.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    Theres de-powercreeping which the game needed and then there's lazy nerfing-blamket nerfing across all skills and traits with zero regards to what their actual function which is the route this patch has been taken to no surprise. The damage reductions and boon reductions were needed but actual thought and consideration should have been given for each. Given the already large amount of useless skills/traits and function in this game it will now be even more bloated with them.
    Reaper scythe will feel shallow and damage will not match its animation. Lower the damage of the skill sure but that much-stupid.
    Shield on warrior giving 1 sec might lmao u serious team? Why not just remove the might gain to remove some of the bloat?
    1 sec in game on might boon is useless garbage and might as well not be there. Yeah 1 Sec daze or imobilize is significant sure but is one sec might? no-no thought or consideration.
    As I stated above passive skills on
    300 cd is like 2 maybe 3 whole procs a match to what, get a whopping
    2 secs invulnerability or to get a free evade? 100 secs or replace the traits-again lazy route with no thought
    Making traits useless and with zero compensation leads to lower
    build deversity-good job lol
    The cc doing zero dps across all classes with zero thought or consideration for their actual weapon skills and how the cc skill or skills function within the kit or playstyle of the spec. For example if a weapon kit consist of cc on 2 or 3 of the weapon skills do u plan on the player using one or 2 skills on CD than auto attack rest other the time unless a cc skills useable again-for zero damage lol sounds fun.
    I get if a hard cc skill got reduced to zero if its surrounded by damage skills but if warrior hammer etc are build around being a cc weapon than half its skills do basically no damage-smart.

    Honestly this reminds me a lot of the clown fiesta in eso half way thru last year when they did a blanket nerf across certain skill type types and a blanket buff across all dots with no regards to the actually functions or surrounding skills of each class nor its playstyle resulting in a complete mess and them having to back peddle by reducing their initial buffs/nerfs by like 30%. Cuz drastic blanket buffs/nerds with no thought creates a disaster so good luck anet lol

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    Got some questions...
    Traits that boost power/precision/ferocity ... why they are not getting nerfed as well?

    This is a good question but its possibly one of those things where if they do it to 1 profession expect it to be done to every profession so i think this one is more of a careful what you ask for kind of question.

    You are not that kind of a person from who I want to see answers.. fine. Yes for everyone, otherwise why would I even ask ?

    Thief & Bundle.
    What will happen to CONSUME PLASMA? It will be OP-overloaded as hell? Because couldnt find any changes on it. Even being interrupted he doesnt lose it and unpunished, how did it pass?

    Also a good question so long as boon duration drops a bit on it i think it would be fine though. How ever we have to remember its not something a thief will get all the time only if they can successfuly steal from a mesmer which is likely why it got a pass there is a 1/9 chance of being able to even steal this in a match if the match has no mesmer you wont ever get the bundle.

    Its gives insane amount of boons, all boons in the game. And not like mesmer suffer enough from all kind of nerfs, 2 elite specs basically about to get deleted and dusted forever, proper balance changes are too hard for anet and this new dev, astonishing.
    Instant steal on ~20s from 1200 range no LoS req its hard to land ? Pardon me, what ? Especially with their stealth access and all kinds of teleports? I shouldnt want to delete my main just because there is a thief in the game, you know ?

    Binding shadow - can you remove the immobilize, so this skill wouldnt need a breakstun and cleanse(at the same time) to get out of it ?

    I feel like it just needs to reveal on cast so it cant pop you out of stealth. If you see it coming you can almost always evade this. Only when they use it from stealth is it ever really a problem imo.

    And clear animation when its about to hit you too.

    Elementalist.
    Lightning rod turns every CC into DMG spike with a weakness on it, no icd. I'd like to remind that power block (on mesmer) has 3s icd, cant crit and procs on interrupt . We had a trait with exact the same functionality - "lost time" on chrono before and it did half of LROD damage, it was deleted entirely. Disable the crits at least, may be?

    This is questionable. Mind that power-block cant crit but it does basically reset a cooldown if it interrupts a person during a cast which depending on what skill is interrupted can be more powerful than just out right damage. Each skill kind of has their own niche. At best i would say dont nerf lightning rods damage anymore just making it only proc on interrupting and not just any disable would bring it more in line with powerblock.

    There is nothing questionable, genius. Its just an example what happened to nerf one skill that wasnt a problem or meta (and specially mentioned it because its harder to pull off since you need an interrupt, compared to just spam CC). And specially brought an example of 100% identical trait that chrono had once (with twice less damage and pretty much no damage if it doesnt crit) and it was removed entirely, for you I bolded text that you didnt bother to read, so do it again.

    Engineer.
    AED (engi heal) escaped the nerfs?

    Its basically some what like defiant stance/hearld heal not really sure it needs to be touched.

    Except when they trait its (I believe, in elixirs*) lasts 8 seconds, either you proc it or 8 seconds getting beaten by them (while skill getting recharged background).
    Also, may be you dont know, AED removes all conditions (damaging ones? or all? cba to go to wiki) but defiant stance/glint heal do doesnt and doesnt lasts 8 seconds.

    Warrior.
    Also want to remind that "Attacker's Insight" is an overloaded trait, aside REFRESHING warrior's burst skill it does give a stat boost (which is super easy to get and keep) 225 power and 225 ferocity (450 overall), thats waaaaay too much.

    This is more so one of those things that if you change it the other 8 professions also need to receive more stat nerfs. Its the careful what you wish for situation imo. I want to think they purposely left stat increasing traits alone because of the removal of some of the amulets and the overall drop to scaling power hits across the board ontop of the fact that most cc wont do damage its a lot of damage removed from the game so removing stats like these might remove way more damage than intended as they might already be riding a fine line between removing too much dps across the board.

    I dont remember any trait, especially minor, that was bloated as this trait. Reset bursts skills AND give 450 stats bonus. Feel free to bring an examples that expose similar traits, I dare you. Why its bloated in the first place? To sell super OP elite specs, its still there. FB had kind of the same trait when he had quickness on, at least it was brought down, SPB was left out (Part about GS F1 is ommited? hue).
    If they remove too much damage and it becomes a bunker meta that would be purely his fault, not because certain classes getting their super powercrept traits nerfed that shouldnt have been buffed in the first place

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Shield on warrior giving 1 sec might lmao u serious team? Why not just remove the might gain to remove some of the bloat?
    1 sec in game on might boon is useless garbage and might as well not be there. Yeah 1 Sec daze or imobilize is significant sure but is one sec might? no-no thought or consideration.

    There are warrior traits that give bonus on Might gain, like healing. And there are people running those traits.
    For them it is more than just one second of Might.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Shield on warrior giving 1 sec might lmao u serious team? Why not just remove the might gain to remove some of the bloat?
    1 sec in game on might boon is useless garbage and might as well not be there. Yeah 1 Sec daze or imobilize is significant sure but is one sec might? no-no thought or consideration.

    There are warrior traits that give bonus on Might gain, like healing. And there are people running those traits.
    For them it is more than just one second of Might.

    True so the addition of 1 sec of might/healing is significant enough to exist? With rune of strength stretched to 2 secs lol.
    I donno why bother then. I could see 3 seconds or 4 as a low base duration but
    1 sec for any boon imo is not worth existing, even quickness for how powerful it is should be 3 sec min. As it is now in pvp quickness sigil basically might as well say reduce cast time of next attack only.
    They literally just contribute to useless stat bloat as they are now.
    A one second daze or imobilize is strong but 1 sec might or protection etc boon duration is pointless and useless.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    There was a lot to read and to watch to keep up what got announced about what will be plans for GW2 in the future and before i get a little bit more critical about some details for PvP balance i want to mention that i am actually hyped again. Funny enough that the current hype even comes in particular from a more PvE content focused post of ArenaNet (they mentioned WvW in a PvE content focused posted, that is hype) but ofc together with seeing a lot of effort for balancing and improving PvP as well. It just makes my basic feeling about GW2 that much better, i feel like GW2 mind not die as fast as expected, maybe doesn't die at all and in opposite gets back to the lead position on the mmo market where it always deserved to be just by its underlying potential. I rly hope Anet keeps up and deliver what sounds so promising right now for all gamemodes, all the plans and the better communication is massive and finally brings the insane potential this game has in particular for competitive gamemodes with that awesome combat system back to life. Interesting and challenging PvE content is important and the first step to also bring more ppl into WvW and PvP again. Means: Keep it up, its not all golden right now but the dedication from Anet for the game you can finally feel again and the plans going in the right direction. Pls deliver and go forward in that direction. I already put aside money to bring it into the gems store to support this game and that as PvP only player.

    That needed to be said, now to the PvP balance:

    The whole philosophy of the patch is based on what the knowledgeable part of the community communicated and i agree to all of them. I'm not sure the current state of the patch will rly implement and realize these goals. Overall the massive nerfs of everything are good and i think it doesn't rly make sense at this point to go into too much detailes about every power coefficient that got nerfed. It needs to be tested first to see where maybe stuff is overnerfed and what stuff is not nerfed enough. And we will have unbalance after that patch goes live, at least that got clear and that is my first point of criticism:

    1. The overall nerfs feel a bit generic, i miss the relation between stuff that is insanely power creeped atm and stuff that barely got power creeped until today. Imo it feels everything got nerfed more or less the same amount not realizing that there is currently stuff more overperforming than others. Makes me be afraid that the patch implements the same meta we have now just on a lower scaled lvl. A lot of stuff got mentioned already (Thief passed some needed changes for example as a big outliner) so i will not repeat more examples and details.

    2. I agree to the philosophy that massive cc skills shouldn't have massive dmg or other big rewards in addition, still it should be more of a case to case decision instead nerfing every hard cc skill dmg the same (to zero)

    • Daze seems not to count as hard cc because a lot of daze skill still do dmg, what is reasonable because daze is the weakest form of hard cc, even weaker than some of the soft cc like taunt, fear or immob because daze doesn't prevent free movement and dodging, means i agree to treatening daze less hard
    • But when i compare Bull's Charge to Head Butt for example then Head Butt sufferes way more from the dmg decrease than Bull's Charge. Head Butt was build around dmg way more during Bull's still has a leap and an evade. I think instead giving all cc skills the same 0.01 treatment it would make more sense to reduce dmg from skills less the harder they are to hit (castime and animation), depending on how many rewards they have without dmg aside from cc, how big their cc is and depending on if they are supposed to be a high impact skill or not (like some elites should have a little bit of dmg aside from cc, otherwise they are often not rly better than some utilities). Also how is a hammer using Warrior supposed to kill anything?
      I can't wait to play a cc-beast Necro and LR Ele, even though Necro lost its instant fear, these 2 will be the only classes that still will do decent amount of dmg by just applying a high amout of cc (some even stunbreak worthy) without the need to interrupt anything. I forgot Engi (in general Engi might be very strong with the new explosive traitline which looks powercreeped compared to everything else that will get nerfed and has some passive dmg i don't like that much, but theory crafting a new bruiser explosive AED Engi build will be fun).
    1. I am not sure if focusing on healing only (aside from some less boonduration) to reduce sustain will be enough to prevent a new bunker meta from happening when looking at the massive nerfs to dmg on more than one lvl (like nerfing skills itself, just as vulnerablity duration, dmg traits and a lot of dmg will be missed by the hard cc skills already). Boring not ending fights vs 2 opponents could do 30000 player mistakes each without dying is the worst that can happen for the game. It was what killed esl. We want bad player and slow reaction player and player doing mistakes to die fast, we just don't want good player to die fast to simple braindead random dmg spam on non-impactful low cds (pre nerf Holo as example) or dying to low skill ceiling passive mechanics with no good counterplay (stealthspam oneshots, passive or instant high dmg application, passive life saver) lever out differences in playerskill. That to said, spammable attacks like autoattacks should not have too high impact in dmg (pure autoattack spam like on Holo combined with very low cd on all Holo skills for example). That doesn't mean higher already high cds from current 40 s to 50 s or something like that. Because that would make the game too slow paced and boring. I only mean looking at 6 s cd high impact skills (good dmg, good mobility, high healing from being a combofinisher) from Holo for example and increase those cds (but not too much to not slow down the game too much, better take away 1 out of these 3 rewards and give a little cd increase).

    4: Nerfing passive traits to 5 mins cd instead of just deleting them and give some useful active traits is a way of balancing i rly don't want to see anymore. Also doesn't prevent a bad player from being saved by a passive what should not exist at all, no matter how long the cd is.

    1. Condi dmg should be dot dmg and not burst dmg. Atm it is both while the condi build even can use more def stats compared to power builds. The goal with this patch seems to be to make hitting condiskills more rewarding by giving more stacks but for a shorter duration. I get the idea behind that but still that is contrary to the goal of making condi dmg more about dots and not burst and justify the higher survivability from condi builds compared to power builds from having a slower dmg effect on the target. Imo condiskills should have a lower amount of stacks (or do less dmg per tick) but for a longer duration. I don't think the changes to condi removes compensate the wrong direction this patch goes with condis here in my view. Why is burming still stackable? This condition is too strong to stack in intensity, make it stack in duration again or lower its dmg per tick by a lot.

    2. Outliner: There are 3 outliners i want to talk about. 2 of them are related to the trade off topic (Soulbeast, Mirage trade off) i have a lot of questions to and will talk about that later. The other one is Obsidian Flesh. I have to say i don't like that change. I don't think it fits to the Ele playstyle, in particular from more quishy specs like Fresh Air. I can see the reason for that change in trying to balance the braindead bunker specs and prevent them from having insane long invulnerability while still being able to use skills. But on classic Ele builds like Fresh Air it is rly hurting, FA is build around getting a kill during you chain your def skills or leave with superspeed and try again when you have some def back up to survive for a bit of time. Otherwise the FA-Ele is just food when someone looks at him. Together with the nerf to the passive block FA will see even less play than already i guess. And it was said from different other ppl already, that nerfs that hurt the more skilled playstyles more than the braindead ones should be avoided. The sustain from bunker Ele specs can be nerfed in so many different ways without removing the little bit of active sustain more skilled builds like FA have. Also changes preventing the player from using instant skills at any time is against the consept of instant skills and makes builds or classes build around comboing with instant skills unnecessary clunky.

    3. Trade offs in general (next post, will need awhile)

    In general the split of patch notes into global and WvW/ PvP was a little bit confusing, will Ele be the stabi monster as it looks like in the global changes? I am still confused about that.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:

    @ZDragon.3046 said:

    @Odik.4587 said:

    Got some questions...
    Traits that boost power/precision/ferocity ... why they are not getting nerfed as well?

    This is a good question but its possibly one of those things where if they do it to 1 profession expect it to be done to every profession so i think this one is more of a careful what you ask for kind of question.

    You are not that kind of a person from who I want to see answers.. fine. Yes for everyone, otherwise why would I even ask ?

    Thief & Bundle.
    What will happen to CONSUME PLASMA? It will be OP-overloaded as hell? Because couldnt find any changes on it. Even being interrupted he doesnt lose it and unpunished, how did it pass?

    Also a good question so long as boon duration drops a bit on it i think it would be fine though. How ever we have to remember its not something a thief will get all the time only if they can successfuly steal from a mesmer which is likely why it got a pass there is a 1/9 chance of being able to even steal this in a match if the match has no mesmer you wont ever get the bundle.

    Its gives insane amount of boons, all boons in the game. And not like mesmer suffer enough from all kind of nerfs, 2 elite specs basically about to get deleted and dusted forever, proper balance changes are too hard for anet and this new dev, astonishing.
    Instant steal on ~20s from 1200 range no LoS req its hard to land ? Pardon me, what ? Especially with their stealth access and all kinds of teleports? I shouldnt want to delete my main just because there is a thief in the game, you know ?

    To be honest with you it is part of their unique class mechanic it needs to be good enough for them to want to use it. Im a necro main and they steal a stronger fear than we have en our entire whole base kit so i mean what do you want them to do. As i said boon duration on it could be shaved maybe abit but dont expect it to be nerfed to the point that thieves wont want to steal from you over say a warrior or a guardian. Its just how it is i personally dont have an issue with plasma on thief cause there is only one way for them to get it. ITs only when a profession can gain access to plasma at any time in any match up is it really a problem hints plasma gain on boon beast being a big issue where as you see considerably less complaints about it with thief usually (no bias intentions) from a mesmer. Its how it is though. Thief usually steals a stronger version of something from each profession i dont see why mesmer should be any different
    Necro = stronger fear
    Warrior = spin which reflects projectiles (base warrior skill does not do this)
    Rev = High damage slow projectile (revs dont have access to this unless downed and it does not do anywhere near the damage)
    Mesmer = boon boost ( generally mesmers are known for having pretty wide boon table so i can see why they get something like plasma from them)

    Generally though i think its not that big of a deal. IF thief could just snatch plasma at any time in any match up i would totally agree with you but because its only in the case of snatching it from a mesmer i do not.

    Binding shadow - can you remove the immobilize, so this skill wouldnt need a breakstun and cleanse(at the same time) to get out of it ?

    I feel like it just needs to reveal on cast so it cant pop you out of stealth. If you see it coming you can almost always evade this. Only when they use it from stealth is it ever really a problem imo.

    And clear animation when its about to hit you too.

    There normally is a clear animation on when its going to hit you if its used when the deadeye is not in stealth, its not hard to evade actually i can almost always evade it if i can see the smoke effect. Only when its done from stealth do you not see the black/red mist (shadows) coming at you meaning it has no tell Forcing reveal at the start of the cast would fix this issue.

    Elementalist.
    Lightning rod turns every CC into DMG spike with a weakness on it, no icd. I'd like to remind that power block (on mesmer) has 3s icd, cant crit and procs on interrupt . We had a trait with exact the same functionality - "lost time" on chrono before and it did half of LROD damage, it was deleted entirely. Disable the crits at least, may be?

    This is questionable. Mind that power-block cant crit but it does basically reset a cooldown if it interrupts a person during a cast which depending on what skill is interrupted can be more powerful than just out right damage. Each skill kind of has their own niche. At best i would say dont nerf lightning rods damage anymore just making it only proc on interrupting and not just any disable would bring it more in line with powerblock.

    There is nothing questionable, genius. Its just an example what happened to nerf one skill that wasnt a problem or meta or whatever. And specially brought an example of 100% identical trait that chrono had once (with twice less damage and pretty much no damage if it doesnt crit) and it was removed entirely, for you I bolded text that you didnt bother to read, so do it again.

    Its not identical though. even in past applications of the skill.
    One applied weakness while the other applied slow both of which are considerably different conditions with different effects.
    Lets also not forget that the chrono version could be triggered without disables by simply landing critical hits which lead to perma slow which is likely why it was removed.
    Weakness vs Slow
    Only on disables vs on disables or after landing a few critical hits
    I would honestly have to say its not the same experince Ive played air lightning rod tempest and perma slow chrono back when that trait was like that so i have some experience with both. Not 100% identical.

    Similar in some aspects but not identical.
    You could literally gs auto a few times and trigger multiple instances of lost time where as lightning rod has a pretty finite number of times you can trigger it base on the cd's of your weapon cc skills. In other words Lightning rod has much more counter-play than lost time did and lost time had a much stronger soft condition than lightning rod did.

    I still dont see a reason to nerf lightning rod anymore its already getting its weakness cut back as of right now the biggest danger will be simply not slapping the ele while they have shocking aura active as thats where most surprise activations of lightning rod will come from. Not many people have the skill to play d/d weaver with air magic and utilize the full potential of the cc in d/d weavers kit sooooo..... outside of tempest perhaps you wont see a ton of lightning rod play unless people go back to core ele.

    Engineer.
    AED (engi heal) escaped the nerfs?

    Its basically some what like defiant stance/hearld heal not really sure it needs to be touched.

    Except when they trait gadgets its lasts 8 seconds, either you proc it or 8 seconds getting beaten by them (while skill getting recharged background).
    Also, may be you dont know, AED removes all conditions (damaging ones? or all? cba to go to wiki) but defiant stance/glint heal do doesnt and doesnt lasts 8 seconds.

    So like i said its similar to defiant stance or herald heal. Most engi's who use this that ive fought either they wait till the last second to use it or they pop it too early and i can just walk way from them. Generally its not common though healing turret is still the go to at the moment and if AED becomes the standard they are trading up front healing early on in the fight for a super late activation. AED by design is not a heal you want to activate early its similar to defiant stance but lacks the freedom of it as a warrior or hearld may choose to pop their heals early to keep them topped off AED will not do this. I think the skill has enough weight in the right areas to be considered balanced for now and if it gets out of hand then they can go back and change it.

    Warrior.
    Also want to remind that "Attacker's Insight" is an overloaded trait, aside REFRESHING warrior's burst skill it does give a stat boost (which is super easy to get and keep) 225 power and 225 ferocity (450 overall), thats waaaaay too much.

    This is more so one of those things that if you change it the other 8 professions also need to receive more stat nerfs. Its the careful what you wish for situation imo. I want to think they purposely left stat increasing traits alone because of the removal of some of the amulets and the overall drop to scaling power hits across the board ontop of the fact that most cc wont do damage its a lot of damage removed from the game so removing stats like these might remove way more damage than intended as they might already be riding a fine line between removing too much dps across the board.

    I dont remember any trait, especially minor, that was bloated as this trait. Reset bursts skills AND give 450 stats bonus. Feel free to bring an examples that expose similar traits, I dare you. (Part about GS F1 is ommited? hue)

    It is a grandmaster minor though its not an adept minor or anything so it can have some meat to it i think. ITs also still a warrior it has to be within melee range to ever get any of these stacks for the most part in the current meta i dont think that will change too much after the fact unless the rifle rework turns out to be better than expected
    At best i think they could make it slightly less passive and let it only grant stacks on disables and not boon removals as boon removals is just a thing thats going to happen as the spellbreaker jumps at you and they already have another minor that removes boons when they land a disable so its possibly just stacking too fast via passive nature. I dont have an other issues with the trait though really. The stat bonuses are fine and the reset only triggers on full counter hits which is not too bad as it requires some work on the warriors part its not just a pure passive thing.

    Yes i did ommit the GS f1 part but if you are curious on my thoughts as to why i did its below.
    GS F1 imo is probably not going to be an issue now that might has been curbed down massively. Its damage was also reduced a bit so im willing to wait and see. A lot of warriors lethal damage comes from their perma 20+ might stacks and that likely wont exists going forward which will see their damage take a massive hit.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    • Some CC skills going to a .01 coefficient is a little overkill. Specifically, the highly telegraphed, small area of effect, significant cast-time skills like Backbreaker, Skull Crack, Headbutt, Banish, Daredevil Uppercut, Holographic Shockwave - (guaranteed crit skill that's now designed to do 50 damage, 100 damage on a crit I guess?) Wild Blow, Personal Battering Ram, Static Shock (A.E.D Toolbelt), Gale Strike. These are control skills that are often used at a risky position, and/or difficult to connect with due to a variety of reasons. My suggestion would be to either add back some damage to these select skills, OR improve the range, area of effect, or attach a short advance or evade, or otherwise quality of life to these CC skills.
    • Better yet - how about instead of making CC skills have 0.01 coefficients, we keep the coefficients but remove the CC component! There's lots of CC floating around, and stability is disappearing, and CC skills are getting their cooldowns reduced in many places by 5-30 seconds. We need less CC skills as well as these skills being balanced.

    Yea, I definitely agree with this one. There need to be some exceptions for some of the damage removals from CC. Either that or, as mentioned, less CC on skills.

    An example is Spike Trap: Killing the damage from an ability that already has so much counterplay to it over-nerfs it. If devs want to keep the co-efficient nerfs on all heavy CC, then this could easily be changed to a short duration daze or stun with the damage left in tact.

    Earthshaker is one skill that I think should be treated as an exception as well since it requires adrenaline, has a big animation, and is on a weapon that already has 2 main skills with damage removed because of their CC. At the very least, some vulnerability should be added here, which would keep to the theme of setting up CC for burst after the CC skill is used.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    Should I be rolling on the floor after your comments ?

    Mesmer = boon boost ( generally mesmers are known for having pretty wide boon table so i can see why they get something like plasma from them)

    Since the core times they had plasma and mesmer wasnt boonmonster (spoiler for uninformed - it was chrono), if there is boonmonstermachine its guardian since CORE days.
    None of the stolen bundles shuts down the class completely and make it insane hard to fight back or even close to impossible. You said the most noticable effects on the budles they steal but this "crazy good" throw gank/rangers tree/ice shard stab.
    I dont want to deal with such biased and hateful person against the mes and be like "yes, its OP but its good that mesmer automatically deleted when thief is there*.

    i can almost always evade it if i can see the smoke effect

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Its not identical though. even in past applications of the skill.
    Lets also not forget that the chrono version could be triggered without disables by simply landing critical hits

    You are not competent to give any answers regards question I'v asked, you simply dont even know the traits :joy::joy::joy:
    Dont expect a response from me.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As a long standing Guild Wars 2 veteran, having played since launch, I'm happy with this direction for the game.
    I don't want to be trapped in a game that wants to pile on more and more damage and makes sound, strategical decisions obsolete.
    Currently, you don't have to worry about being strategical. Slot your build with damage and high mobility, and you can be present all over the map and forever snowball. That's not fun.
    Slowing down the pace of the game to make room for being wise about your decisions on and off the battlefield (referring to traits/utility choices) makes the game mode, based on playing around the objectives, fun and exciting.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A bit more reflection....
    Why are certain weapons hit SOOOOO kitten hard? Weapons designed for CC are just no longer useful. Hammer is a great example on Warrior. There's zero reason for a warrior to play Hammer, or even mace really, after this patch. They do no damage, because on top of the CC nerfs, y'all had the brains to nerf the auto attacks too? Bleh.
    The thinking behind this patch is going to lead to some cancerous metas, in my opinion.

  • mixxed.5862mixxed.5862 Member ✭✭✭

    Wow, this is huge! The balance changes look phenomenal. Seems like I'll be playing some GW2 soon.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    A bit more reflection....
    Why are certain weapons hit SOOOOO kitten hard? Weapons designed for CC are just no longer useful. Hammer is a great example on Warrior. There's zero reason for a warrior to play Hammer, or even mace really, after this patch. They do no damage, because on top of the CC nerfs, y'all had the brains to nerf the auto attacks too? Bleh.
    The thinking behind this patch is going to lead to some cancerous metas, in my opinion.

    This is why a team who was actually concerned with balance would look at each weapon, their kit,playstyle and functions and use those as a basis of balance instead they just uniformly blanket nerfed everything with zero consideration to all the different variables between the classes which imo is beyond ridiculous. Seriously who would think that's ok?
    Guess our bar is so low changes regardless of how and what are enough to spur hope into this games community.
    That's kinda ruff lol.

  • Teb.6980Teb.6980 Member ✭✭

    hahaha, guys, I just realised

    Signet of stone: unnerfed, ranger skill (soulbeasts are v.oppressive atm) 60 seconds, 3 seconds total invulnerability to direct damage
    Defy pain: 5 minute cooldown, warrior skill

    Now rangers do damage mitigation more often than warriors
    lol

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Ranger

    Profession Mechanics

    Celestial Avatar

    • Cosmic Ray: Reduced heal coefficient from 0.469 to 0.25
    • Seed of Life: Reduced heal coefficient from 0.4745 to 0.2. Increased number of conditions cleansed from 1 to 2. Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 4 seconds
    • Lunar Impact: Reduced base heal from 1620 to 1215. Reduced heal coefficient from 1.44 to 0.72. Increased daze duration from 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced pulse heal coefficient from 0.3 to 0.15

    Soulbeast Merge Skills

    • Swoop (Bird): Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 18 seconds
    • Brutal Charge (Canine): Reduced power coefficient from 0.64 to 0.01
    • Tail Lash (Devourer): Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01
    • Call Lightning (Jacaranda): Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.5 to 0.4
    • Maul (Porcine): Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds
    • Brutal Charge (Porcine): Reduced power coefficient from 0.67 to 0.01
    • Takedown (Smokescale): Reduced power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.01
    • Smoke Assault (Smokescale): Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.5 to 0.35
    • Wing Buffet (Wyvern): Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.01

    Beast Skills

    • Unflinching Fortitude: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 50 seconds
    • Worldly Impact: Reduced power coefficient from 1.89 to 1.512

    Pet Skills

    Pig Family

    • Brutal Charge: Reduced power coefficient from 0.67 to 0.01

    Canine Family

    • Brutal Charge: Reduced power coefficient from 0.67 to 0.01

    Wolf

    • Terrifying Howl (F2): Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01

    Devourer

    • Tail Lash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01

    Iboga

    • Fang Grapple (F2): Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01

    Bristleback

    • Spike Barrage: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.22 to 0.165

    Rock Gazelle

    • Head Toss (F2): Reduced power coefficient from 1.11 to 0.01
    • Charge: Reduced power coefficient from 1.1 to 0.825

    Smokescale

    • Takedown: Reduced power coefficient from 0.5 to 0.01
    • Smoke Assault: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.25 to 0.2

    Wyvern Family

    • Wing Buffet: Reduced power coefficient from 0.3 to 0.01

    Lightning Wyvern

    • Lightning Assault (F2): Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.01

    Weapons

    Greatsword

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.64/0.8/1.3 to 0.45/0.6/0.866
    • Maul: Reduced power coefficient from 1.75 to 1.5. Reduced vulnerability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds. Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Swoop: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.91. Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds
    • Counterattack: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 25 seconds.

      • Counterattack Kick (from Counterattack): Reduced power coefficient from 1.3 to 0.01
    • Hilt Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 0.72 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds

    Longbow

    • Long Range Shot: Reduced maximum power coefficient from 0.9 to 0.6. Reduced minimum power coefficient from 0.7 to 0.466
    • Rapid Fire: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.375 to 0.275. Reduced vulnerability duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Point Blank Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.01
    • Barrage: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.5 to 0.381

    Short Bow

    • Crossfire: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.266
    • Quick Shot: Increased cooldown from 8 seconds to 12 seconds
    • Concussion Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.4 to 0.01

    Sword

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.7/0.7/0.96 to 0.466/0.466/0.64
    • Monarch's Leap: Reduced power coefficient from 1.25 to 0.75

    Axe MH

    • Ricochet: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.533. Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 5 seconds
    • Splitblade: Reduced power coefficient per axe from 0.4 to 0.1. Increased bleeding duration from 6 seconds to 12 seconds. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds
    • Winter's Bite: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 1.0. Increased bleeding stacks from 2 to 3.

    Axe OH

    • Path of Scars: Reduced power coefficient from 1.2 to 0.01
    • Whirling Defense: reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.66 to 0.44. Reduced vulnerability duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds

    Dagger OH

    • Stalker's Strike: Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds
    • Crippling Talon: Reduced power coefficient from 0.75 to 0.5

    Warhorn

    • Hunter's Call: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.15 to 0.1
    • Call of the Wild: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds

    Staff

    • Solar Beam: Reduced base heal per pulse from 66 to 30
    • Ancestral Grace: Reduced healing coefficient from 1.0 to 0.5

    Dagger MH

    • Autoattack Chain: Reduced power coefficients from 0.4/0.42/0.44/0.88 to 0.32/0.336/0.352/0.704
    • Double Arc: Adjusted bleeding per hit from 3 stacks for 6 seconds to 2 stacks for 9 seconds
    • Instinctive Engage: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds

    Heal

    • We Heal As One: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds
    • Troll Unguent: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds
    • Glyph of Rejuvenation:
    • Non-Celestial: Reduced self heal coefficient from 1.708 to 1.25. Reduced ally heal coefficient from 1.4 to 1.0
    • Celestial: Reduced self heal coefficient from 1.4 to 1.0. Reduced ally heal coefficient from 1.708 to 1.25
    • Bear Stance: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds

    Utility

    • Lightning Reflexes: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.1
    • Quickening Zephyr: Reduced quickness and superspeed duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 40 seconds
    • Glyph of Alignment: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds
    • Glyph of the Tides: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01. Reduced cooldown from 25 seconds to 20 seconds
    • Dolyak Stance: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 60 seconds
    • Griffon Stance: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds
    • Moa Stance: Reduced bonus boon duration from 66% to 20%
    • Glyph of Equality (non-celestial): Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01
    • Spike Trap: Reduced power coefficient from 0.2 to 0.01. Adjusted bleeding from 6 stacks from 6.25 seconds to 1 stack for 1 second. Reduced cooldown from 30 seconds to 20 seconds

    Elite

    • Strength of the Pack: Reduced might duration from 10 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced stability duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds

    Traits

    Marksmanship

    • Stoneform: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
    • Lesser Call of the Wild (from Clarion Bond): Reduced boon durations from 15 seconds to 6 seconds

    Skirmishing

    • Sharpened Edges: Reduced bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 1 second
    • Primal Reflexes: Reduced vigor duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds
    • Strider's Defense: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds

    Wilderness Survival

    • Rugged Growth: Reduced base heal from 259 to 155
    • Lesser Muddy Terrain (from Child of Earth): Reduced duration from 10 seconds to 4 seconds
    • Taste for Danger: Reduced vitality to expertise conversion from 7% to 4%
    • Refined Toxins: Reduced poison duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds
    • Shared Anguish: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    Nature Magic

    • Rejuvenation: Reduced regeneration duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Lingering Magic: Reduced concentration from 240 to 120
    • Instinctive Reaction: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Windborne Notes: Reduced regeneration duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds
    • Protective Ward: Reduced weakness duration from 6 seconds to 4 seconds

    Beastmastery

    • Wilting Strike: Reduced weakness duration from 4 seconds to 3 seconds
    • Lesser Quickening Zephyr (from Zephyr's Speed): Reduced quickness and superspeed durations from 3 seconds to 2 seconds

    Druid

    • Live Vicariously: Reduced base healing from 207 to 144
    • Natural Mender: Reduced bonus outgoing healing per stack from 2% to 1%
    • Celestial Shadow: Reduced stealth duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Grace of the Land: Reduced might duration from 12 seconds to 6 seconds. Reduced target cap from 10 to 5

    Soulbeast

    • Live Fast: Reduced quickness duration from 3 seconds to 2 seconds
    • Eternal Bond: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    How can Slb survive after this update?

    Slb will lose the option to use two pets after this update.

    Counterattack: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 25 seconds.

    Swoop (Bird): Increased cooldown from 10 seconds to 18 seconds

    Unflinching Fortitude: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 50 seconds

    Moa Stance: Reduced bonus boon duration from 66% to 20%

    Dolyak Stance: Increased cooldown from 40 seconds to 60 seconds

    These changes are not comparable to those obtained by other professions, they are worse.
    If the goal is to see a couple of professions outside the Meta, I would say that with these changes it will surely be achieved, and meanwhile professions that have dominated the Meta for over 2 years remain intact and without trade-offs.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    @Odik brought up a good point, all the traits that boost stats weren't touched and are a major contributor to power creep. honestly tho with all these damage nerfs we might as well leave them as is for now and see how it all pans out. on the other hand builds with these traits will have an advantage over those who don't, namely spellbreaker, reaper, rev, and soulbeast. I would say ele too but idk.

    Te lazla otstara.

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2020

    Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).
    Now here are the things I really do not understand:

    • Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.
    • Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.
    • Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.
    • Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

    You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teb.6980 said:
    hahaha, guys, I just realised

    Signet of stone: unnerfed, ranger skill (soulbeasts are v.oppressive atm) 60 seconds, 3 seconds total invulnerability to direct damage
    Defy pain: 5 minute cooldown, warrior skill

    Now rangers do damage mitigation more often than warriors
    lol

    You are misinformed,

    • Stoneform: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds

    Same as defy pain. Compare passives to passives, and actives to actives if you must..

    The active Endure Pain for Warrior I'd say just got slightly buffed. An extra second of Endure Pain, for 10 seconds longer cooldown:

    Endure Pain: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 40 seconds. Increased duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ironically if everyone does the same damage it is a balance patch....Maybe thats what they are going for im not sure?
    Or maybe they are trying to start from 0 again and re-balance pvp from there?

    Because ive been reading this thread some of these changes make no sense yeah im really mad at the mirage dodge nerf but the stun damage changes affecting and entire weapon is huge too. Thinking about it i don't think this the end just a start.

    Atleast i hope so those stun changes and the mirage nerf changes just don't make sense.
    I hopefully we will get a q&a soon.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Yes there really needs to be paid more attention to the context of a lot of these cc skills. Stuff that has the main purpose of being a cc (static field) or has other good benefits (like bulls charge evade+mobility) are fine to lose all damage. But others were the damage is a main selling point of the skill should get looked at again (head butt, executioner's scythe e.g.). Especially when we take stuff like weapon skill sets into consideration like others have mentioned.
    Increase cooldowns, make some of those ccs less efficient or maybe remove a few entirely if it's really needed, but keep damage on some of those. Personally I'd rather see a game with some less (severe) ccs, especially when we take away stab and stunbreaks in the first place.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's going to be less stability access & pistol whip still exists

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • @mixxed.5862 said:
    Wow, this is huge! The balance changes look phenomenal. Seems like I'll be playing some GW2 soon.

    Thats just the "tabula rasa patch". But devs intend to release balance patches every 6 weeks + hot fixes from now on. welcome back^^

  • Mbelch.9028Mbelch.9028 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    A bit more reflection....
    Why are certain weapons hit SOOOOO kitten hard? Weapons designed for CC are just no longer useful. Hammer is a great example on Warrior. There's zero reason for a warrior to play Hammer, or even mace really, after this patch. They do no damage, because on top of the CC nerfs, y'all had the brains to nerf the auto attacks too? Bleh.
    The thinking behind this patch is going to lead to some cancerous metas, in my opinion.

    This is why a team who was actually concerned with balance would look at each weapon, their kit,playstyle and functions and use those as a basis of balance instead they just uniformly blanket nerfed everything with zero consideration to all the different variables between the classes which imo is beyond ridiculous. Seriously who would think that's ok?
    Guess our bar is so low changes regardless of how and what are enough to spur hope into this games community.
    That's kinda ruff lol.

    Indeed.... If people don't see that this could lead to a heavy condi meta, they're silly.

  • Ghos.1326Ghos.1326 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).
    Now here are the things I really do not understand:

    • Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.
    • Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.
    • Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.
    • Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

    You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

    With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

    The greatest enemy to improvement, is ignorance. But the desire to learn will cast ignorance into the fire.

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mbelch.9028 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Mbelch.9028 said:
    A bit more reflection....
    Why are certain weapons hit SOOOOO kitten hard? Weapons designed for CC are just no longer useful. Hammer is a great example on Warrior. There's zero reason for a warrior to play Hammer, or even mace really, after this patch. They do no damage, because on top of the CC nerfs, y'all had the brains to nerf the auto attacks too? Bleh.
    The thinking behind this patch is going to lead to some cancerous metas, in my opinion.

    This is why a team who was actually concerned with balance would look at each weapon, their kit,playstyle and functions and use those as a basis of balance instead they just uniformly blanket nerfed everything with zero consideration to all the different variables between the classes which imo is beyond ridiculous. Seriously who would think that's ok?
    Guess our bar is so low changes regardless of how and what are enough to spur hope into this games community.
    That's kinda ruff lol.

    Indeed.... If people don't see that this could lead to a heavy condi meta, they're silly.

    I don't see how you see a heavy condition meta could you explain this?
    As the classes that use condition were neutered the most in this patch.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • @Ghos.1326 said:

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).
    Now here are the things I really do not understand:

    • Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.
    • Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.
    • Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.
    • Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

    You can't nerf dmg and corruption on necro and at the same time increase its weakness to CC too, in my opinion is too much. You say you want less stab on necro and that's fine but even going hammer on breakstuns? Like 15s increase on trail of anguish? Is any necro spec supposed to have 1 breakstun each 40s, when every other class in game can spam all the cc they have, which btw are more than just 1 or 2, and keep doing damage with every other skill in the kit while they cc lock a necro?

    With the damage lower across the board, though, and the cc doing low damage, you don't need to worry about breaking stun as much, so you may not need to continue to run stunbreaks. Just wait it out and see.

    What you are suggesting is the most uninterractive way of playing one could ever imagine. Losing control over your character without the possibility of doing anything is the worst possible experience you can give.

  • I understand its not easy seeing a class you play get hit with nerfs, even though "bigger picture" everything else did as well. The fact of the matter is that Swoop, especially double Swoop, was extremely strong mobility on extremely low cooldowns compared to the mobility skills of other classes. Increasing their cooldowns respectively brings them more in line with other mobility skills. Swoop (GS) will be on a 15 second cooldown, 12 when traited and Swoop (Beast Mode) will be an 18 second cooldown. That is pretty on par with other mobility skills in the game...I really don't see how that is a problem. Its a change that needed to happen, just like Obsidian Flesh needed its change to happen as well, and how Warrior needed its Passives neutered, and so on and so forth. Their cooldowns, maybe Beast Mode Swoop, might get adjusted but give yourself time to adjust to the changes. Don't freak out over it, especially when something did need to be done about how strong they were.

    Please refrain from using only number statistics for your entire explanation/argument as in practice this is not really the case (don't feel like quoting like 3 different posts it's too tiring). Sure the distance might be better but you know what it doesn't come with? Here are a few examples of why this doesn't make sense in actual matches:
    1. Trying to Eagle (bird pet) Swoop with Greatsword 3 Swoop is pretty much only viable at the start of the game now as you can't swap pets during combat anymore. Many times if you were to rotate around with this you would get hit by a stray hit and now be unable to swap pets. Having Eagle (bird pet) merge in combat is suicide, the only thing anyone really does with it is to Swoop into applying swiftness (Bird Merge Skill 2) to move across the map. Also if a Ranger tries to leave a fight with a bird pet it simply doesn't work as they would generally already be merged with another pet anyways (since pets are virtually dead in teamfights due to their nature) so they would have to wait for 10 seconds to even obtain Bird merge.
    2. Thief Shortbow 5 has easily the best mobility in the game with no cooldown and only a mana costs of sorts. It can scale collision easily from bottom floor to a further up floor. It has a really fast cast time and still moves you if you were cc'd before fully traveling to your location, and don't forget you can easily aim this to port wherever you want.
    3. Shadowsteps of any sort (excluding like Swipe since the range it states is like false) are arguably better movement tech than Ranger greatsword 3 as they scale collision, provide instant movement, easy mind game potential for movement, and can allow you easy access to evasion.
    4. Bull's Charge and Warrior Greatsword 3 come with access to good evasion that comes virtually instantly and last immeasurably long. Bull's Charge in the first place shouldn't have even been considered as a movement tech as Greatsword 3 combined with Greatsword 5 on warrior should be enough as well as Bull's Charge is a really good CC skill.
    5. Greatsword 3 on ranger is pretty bad comparatively. No access to height scaling (can be used for some height scaling but only at near neutral height to where you are), the evasion trigger on Greatsword feels inconsistent (a small delay after casting it will provide temporary evasion instead of immediately) and lasts for a lower time than Warrior Greatsword 3, Greatsword 3 on Ranger has odd properties where it gets stuck on a platform (generally happens between like the first and second segment of the skill or something it is a bit hard to explain) when you land on a lower platform than one you started on.

    Also not enough people talking about these other things:
    1. Dolyak Stance 20 second increased cooldown on ranger is way too crippling to all ranger builds as ranger has arguably the longest casting times without Stability-like effects causing the class to be cc'd into the ground hard. The real problem is when boon rangers try and stack that stuff hard through heal as one doubling the stacks and with easy access to extending the boon via quickness +2 second duration.
    2. People who are complaining about getting hit for 12k by a ranger probably are the same people trying to tank the most easily telegraphed move in ranger's arsenal (Greatsword 2 Maul). The only real complaint that is reasonable about it is the fact that Ranger has way too easy access to quickness causing there to be less time to react to getting chunked.
    3. Survivability in the form of blocking on shield and reflects not getting nerfed much will cause bunker classes to have a field day on any ranged classes as each projectile will deal less damage and the maps have way too much stuff to hide behind (as well as obstruction issues like in Djinn's Dominion)
    4. Stealth needs to be fixed in some way as Thieves in permastealth hold too much of a presence. If you leave a point while the thief is in stealth they can just wait for you to leave and decap/cap the point for free. If you stay at they point they can rotate to another point and the only indicator that they did so would be a team callout or if the thief was in combat. It is a brainless way to apply pressure to the map and for whatever reason Shadow Arts got buffed causing Thieves to be benefited for doing this. And this even isn't mentioning the fact that stealth attacks are stupid and you can pretty much just spam them until you run out of stealth (which is often times never if the Thief chooses to) or if it finally hits. There is like no reason why using a stealth attack doesn't apply reveal to yourself if you miss it or they block it.
    5. If the team wants to make the format more decision oriented then they need to rework/fix all of the classes that have brainless rotations that end up being extremely effective with near 0 need to do anything but use a stun-break once in a while. Examples of these would include power Mesmer (being reworked I guess), Point bunker Weavers, Most Warrior builds (at least this one has a small amount of decision making), condi Mirage (mostly staff but may not need to care after the -50 max endurance lol), Dragon Hunters, etc.

    Saying things like there isn't supposed to be weapon skill changes is lying to yourself. Anet already mentioned that they planned on reworking power Mesmer in the patch notes. Making excuses for Anet not fixing things that are broken is asking for the game to stay as a broken mess. There are many obvious changes that should be looked at but they only went for a few out of the virtually endless list. (I mention a few In my earlier post on page 3)