Hell yes! Thank you Cal Cohen and team! Reeling in the power creep was more than necessary, I was kinda worried that you'd go too light on the original change, but what I see now gives me hope that things will improve! Thank you so much for your work and keep at it! People will be mad about their class getting nerfed, but your outlined vision is solid! Stay strong and keep delivering!
There was some condition nerfs, but it doesn't look like enough. It's probably not going to be fun fighting people in full dire/trailblazer gear that only have 1 second less duration on a random skill while almost all your power based skills are weaker.
This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.
If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...
When we complain about wvw balance, we are not talking about the power coefficients (in majority of the cases at least) we are talking about some classes being able to do a lot while others offer nothing to their groups.
These changes ARE HORRIBLE.
What you will create is every group will not run:
2 minstrel Firebrands,
2-3 trailblazer scourges
1 Spellbreaker.
Diversity will DIE completely.
Also. Why would you lower EVERY CC down to 0.01 co-eff?????
Different CCs fill in different purposes.
All this does is that it will make some forms of CC completely worthless because there will no point to use them since there will always a better one.
idk.
I think you need reconsider this.
For once, admit you might be wrong and actually reconsider before you push something like this.....
Wind of Disenchantment still needs some look at, nerfing the target cap is a move in the good direction, but it won't change the meta for smaller groups. Big groups can just run in with warriors still and perma chain bubble on them giving no counter play to it. Should just reduce the range of the skill, so you have more space to move around it, or make it castable on the ground instead of chanelled aroud the caster
Anyway, when thinking about reducing the impact of damage in this game, increasing base HP and toughness across all 9 classes seems way simpler than changing hundreds of skills...just my 2 cents.
Basically, these intended changes are throwing away more than 7 years of constant balancing by changing almost everything at the same time...
@Vova.2640 said:
This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.
If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...
When we complain about wvw balance, we are not talking about the power coefficients (in majority of the cases at least) we are talking about some classes being able to do a lot while others offer nothing to their groups.
These changes ARE HORRIBLE.
What you will create is every group will not run:
2 minstrel Firebrands,
2-3 trailblazer scourges
1 Spellbreaker.
Diversity will DIE completely.
Also. Why would you lower EVERY CC down to 0.01 co-eff?????
Different CCs fill in different purposes.
All this does is that it will make some forms of CC completely worthless because there will no point to use them since there will always a better one.
idk.
I think you need reconsider this.
For once, admit you might be wrong and actually reconsider before you push something like this.....
no you won't because scrapper's purity of purpose still has no icd, their cleanses didn't get touched.
these changes are gonna do the exact opposite of killing the game, they will kitten change it after 2 and half years of firebrand scourge spellbreaker weaver filling 90% of map slots.
Sounds like going forward they can make adjustments faster and on a more regular pace so they can respond to the meta. Overall i agree with a lower baseline damage for the harder hitting skills and having to combo things for max damage rather then just hitting a single button. I also agree with hard CC loosing most of its damage, that should be your setup, it should not be downing people before you even hit with your burst.
I still would like to see some of the skills that do too many things in one button press get addressed, but that should come in future patches.
@RedBaron.6058 said:
Classes are so different in GW2 that applying the same damage reduction across the board is a bad idea.
I just hope that enough people remain playing this lovely game through this new balance and iteration process...
You are right, but this was, for once, exactly what was advertised to its pretty pointless to get all riled up right now.
I also believe it was something that needed to be done. I just hope they succeed within a reasonable timeframe so that people have no objective reason to be riled up. If some people then subjectively goes off the rails, well that's on them. If people couldn't see this comming they have not been paying attention.
ANet needs to create 3 algorithms - PvE, PvP and WvW - to balance all classes considering a number of factors like Damage, Mitigation, CC, Mobility, Healing, etc.
For example, the value of mobility is different in PvE, WvW and PvP.
And if Damage is what ANet wants to reduce, then they need to balance the other factors to compensate across classes.
Well they are doing that. I mean, if you look at what the first post says and then just browse over the changes you can draw some very crude conclusions in that they are slashing down all healing further than all damage. They are removing all damage coefficiency from heavy CC skills. They are giving boons and cleanses similar treatment around a 0.5 slash in stacks and durations along with increased cooldowns.
They are giving alot of the conditions a treatment of balancing out stacks versus uptimes with fewer stacks and longer uptimes (hopefully they couple this with some look at scaling, which I have no read anything about yet). So boons are getting a heavier slash than 0.5 combined on average. Conditions are getting less of a slash than 0.5 from the few classes I've looked at so far (builds I enjoy myself). Cleanses seem to get similar treatment as boons with both stacking and cooldown changes. There is very little mentioned about rips and CC. They are putting big immunity utilities on 5min cd.
So a (again super crude and sweeping) estimate summary on balance issues would be:
Tank > Damage > Healing
Conditions > Cleanses
CC > Breaks
Rips > Boons
Condition > Power damage* Note: I don't mean it will be better, I mean it will lose comparatively less.
Condition pressure > Condition burst
Foreseeable control issues = favours ranged play
Increased base tanks = favours melee play
Decreased healing = favours supplementation with fields
Power pressure > Power burst
Scalability issues with CC and conditions (damage and soft CC)* This is an urgent possible post-drop issue to address given the past 2-3 years.
I'm not going to go deeper into it than those very broad and not always entirely accurate remarks. It is up to you and your guilds to figure things out for yourselves .
I expected so much more.
Okay, we've got an overall reduction in damage and heal, maybe the fights will last longer.
But there's no change in the class problems related to the WvW.
Examples :
on Mesmer
All clones and phantasms of Mesmer are instantly killed, so all the skills related to breaking or generation of clones or phantasms are still useless.
Except for roaming.
The wells of the chronomancer are still useless in WvW.
Necro pets are still useless and throw themselves into the aoe to die without having done anything.
Ranger, spirits same.
As a thief he will always be able to one shot surely all the class with not too much life or shot because the sign of assassin has not been touched.
And finally the problems related to the role of supports.
The druids, scourge heal, herald, elem and all will always be non-existent because it does not bring what the FB brings so easily. ( dispell, stab +other buff , instant)
Having aoe healing, based on the field with an after cast is ridiculous we move all the time in mcm.
FB heal, buff and dispell, always ahead of him in movement for the most part.
With all the other healers, we have to predict hypothetically where our allies will be in 3s if we want to give them heal, buff or other.
The worst being the balls of the ventari revenant totally random.
There are so many other problems, ....
Too much hope. NB :
I was expecting a reduction in damage, heals and buff depending on how many targets are hit dynamically,
It would have changed the bus vs bus.
Allways a dream.
@Vova.2640 said:
This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.
If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...
When we complain about wvw balance, we are not talking about the power coefficients (in majority of the cases at least) we are talking about some classes being able to do a lot while others offer nothing to their groups.
These changes ARE HORRIBLE.
What you will create is every group will not run:
2 minstrel Firebrands,
2-3 trailblazer scourges
1 Spellbreaker.
Diversity will DIE completely.
Also. Why would you lower EVERY CC down to 0.01 co-eff?????
Different CCs fill in different purposes.
All this does is that it will make some forms of CC completely worthless because there will no point to use them since there will always a better one.
idk.
I think you need reconsider this.
For once, admit you might be wrong and actually reconsider before you push something like this.....
no you won't because scrapper's purity of purpose still has no icd, their cleanses didn't get touched.
these changes are gonna do the exact opposite of killing the game, they will kitten change it after 2 and half years of firebrand scourge spellbreaker weaver filling 90% of map slots.
Guardian cleanses got nerfed and having no cooldown on Purity of purpose isnt a solution to upcoming condition meta. Why? Cause the condition re appliance rate is crazy strong right now and wont be much weaker after the patch.
If we were to go on a full condition blob right now then the condition appliance rate is 2-3x higher compared to what scrappers and firebrands can clear atm. Power creep is stronger for now so thats why we arent on condi meta.
After the condi cleanse nerf and condition stack appliance mini nerf, it will not be enough. If they want to make it work then they have to boost up condi cleanses or nerf condi appliance rate even harder.
no you won't because scrapper's purity of purpose still has no icd, their cleanses didn't get touched.
these changes are gonna do the exact opposite of killing the game, they will kitten change it after 2 and half years of firebrand scourge spellbreaker weaver filling 90% of map slots.
you're kidding right? have you read these? lol
no one else will be able to do anything anymore. Power dmg will hit like a wet noodle. Pair that with 3k+ armor from dire/trailblazer/minstrel... and you have power skills critting for <2k...
They could have just adjusted every class base hp and armor slightly to increase TTK and nerf a few problematic skills. This is over-doing. Plain and simple.
Chronomancer shatters need something to be viable for wvw. Clones die instantly during fights and this makes continuum split incredibly inconsistent. Mesmer just doesn't have a spot in large scale fights at all after all the changes.
@Cal Cohen.2358 said:
Executioner's Scythe: Reduced power coefficients from 2.0/2.6/3.2 to 0.01/0.015/0.02 (Above 50%/Below 50%/Below 25%). Increased stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds
who tf are you gonna execute with a 500 dmg crit lol.
Defy Pain: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
Last Stand: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
Earth's Embrace: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
Please do not get me wrong. I do not want to be rude but after reading these future patch notes I wonder if the persons tinkering with GW2 Excel tables do really play this game enough...
Thank you so kitten much! This preview gives me hope for WvW for the first time since late HoT. Please don't get discouraged by people getting mad that their precious classes are getting nerfed. The game needs a deep cut against the power creep. Keep up the good work!
Here is my proposal:
1. Forget all these proposed changes;
2. Increase base HP and Toughness of all 9 classes, by a % adjusted to the class characteristics;
3. Work from there and tweak base HP and Toughness of each class as necessary.
P.S. - Do not throw away more than 7 years of classes balancing.
So nerf everything and ruin 7 years of balance in 1 day kekw..... the problem that hasnt been fix is that mesmer has 5 clones 3 active. So game will remain unbalance.
When we complain about wvw balance, we are not talking about the power coefficients (in majority of the cases at least) we are talking about some classes being able to do a lot while others offer nothing to their groups.
These changes ARE HORRIBLE.
What you will create is every group will not run:
2 minstrel Firebrands,
2-3 trailblazer scourges
1 Spellbreaker.
Diversity will DIE completely.
All of this!
WvW is actually more like PvE than PvP, so the balance should actually lean towards that. We do large scale fights. I mean we use kitten food and utility buffers kitten. It’s more fast paced than structured PvP so ‘some’ imbalance is necessary.
We need to diversify the roles of other classes in this game.
@Fantasylife.7981 said:
So nerf everything and ruin 7 years of balance in 1 day kekw..... the problem that hasnt been fix is that mesmer has 5 clones 3 active. So game will remain unbalance.
No need to worry everything that is not core mesmer will be as good as deleted after this patch
Finally removing the crutches that is the passive invulns/breaks
No more getting hit for 10k+ when you have 3.5k armor+
TTK means you might have to put more thought into things then just slam your burst and hope, this burst meta has carried people pretty hard, ofc they're gonna be upset about it being changed.
This definitively makes outnumbered fights a lot more doable, which is nice, this burst meta really really favored the ones doing the outnumbering.
Only bad thing is that tempest really could have used a few less nerfs and maybe even some buffs to bring it up to firebrands level.
Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.
Here are my thoughts on the balance patch as a whole, not singling out any changes. I am only focusing on power as that is all I have ever played. I have played almost exclusively WvW / PvP since launch (Ranger / SoulBeast Main).
No complaints to damage / heal reductions, this will balance out across the board as intended.
It is concerning all the increases to cool downs. It seems that in general, cool downs were increased for weapons, traits, and utilities.
Also concerning is decrease to might / vulnerabillity stacks
Also concerning is decrease to might / vulnerability durations
High weapon / utility cool downs + short might / vulnerability stacks + smaller might / vulnerability stacks = one short burst? What if the opponent dodges, and you in turn dodge their burst? Now the two players are left with smashing "1" on each other.
All in all I think the intended goal of putting more stress on what skills are used at what time is a great idea. I understand increasing cool downs is the most effective way of achieving this. However I think the increase in cool downs is a bit extreme. I cant picture the flow of my burst based off of the changes made. I now envision myself kiting for days until an opportunistic moment arises and I toss a huge burst in to someone, and then kite for another day or two if I don't down the opponent.
Perhaps a beta weekend with the patch implemented would be a good idea.
@lodjur.1284 said:
Finally removing the crutches that is the passive invulns/breaks
No more getting hit for 10k+ when you have 3.5k armor+
TTK means you might have to put more thought into things then just slam your burst and hope, this burst meta has carried people pretty hard, ofc they're gonna be upset about it being changed.
This definitively makes outnumbered fights a lot more doable, which is nice, this burst meta really really favored the ones doing the outnumbering.
Only bad thing is that tempest really could have used a few less nerfs and maybe even some buffs to bring it up to firebrands level.
Lol you do understand that right now given the boon duration and condi cleanse nerf in upcoming changes, it will be a full blown pirate ship with condition spam. Just like back in 2017. That meta was far more worse then the current one.
I want to tell you guys a story about a weapon and its skills. The class is Mesmer, and the weapon is scepter. Once upon a time, it was a niche weapon that most people overlooked, because lets be honest, there were far better options out there. It had been balanced since launch to act a hybrid weapon, you could run it as condi, power, or hybrid. At a certain point, Anet notices that this one weapon on Mesmer isn't getting used by any meaningful number of players in any game mode. They take its highest power damage skill and buff it by 25% (a fairly huge change to a single skill) while also giving it an additional strike (which means an additional confusion stack). Throughout that balance period, people start realizing that high power damage builds can kill other high power damage builds with a single use of this skill, and hybrid builds can deal obscene amounts of damage with it while being fairly tanky. The Mesmer meta in pvp shifts heavily towards this weapon. On the next balance patch, knowing that they screwed up by overbuffing this skill, Anet nerfs it by 50% (twice as much as it was just buffed the previous patch). As a consolation prize, they give an extra clone to the block (but also raise its cooldown in wvw). Now, despite this weapon having been slightly underperforming before this whole debacle, its significantly worse instead of slightly better. Its use drops even further, essentially relegated to staff scepter/torch IH full condi braindead spam WvW roaming builds. Before this whole thing, there were a small number of players who greatly enjoyed power scepter despite it not being as strong as GS builds. It was an alternative playstyle. So, the question is. Now that Anet is reducing power coefficients across the board, what makes sense? A.) Nerf scepter's power coefficients to a similar degree as something like GS, resulting in scepter being just as underperforming as before this upcoming patch. B.) Nerf scepter's power coefficients to a lesser degree as something like GS, achieving balance. According to this preview, option A.) made more sense to the Devs.
Well this looks like a very promising start. I suspect some of the condi builds needed nerfs corresponding with power though, because without it there's a risk they'll dominate.
Additionally given that boon duration is getting hard nerfed, its good for offensive boons but for defensive boons like specially for stability, we are gona be thrown back to full blown pirateship with condition meta. Feels 2017 man.
I think I like the overall direction but it should be made sure that conditions don't become to strong.
Right now Burn-guardians are already a quite strong burstbuild if they hit at the right time. With the (maybe) upcoming condition-meta it might be even harder to cleanse the burning-stacks if they are coverd by other conditions before they kill you.
Also Burn-guardians kill siege very fast right now because it can be hard to cleanse the siege before it get's destroyed.
Also we need a very good look at the thief portal. It's currently way to strong for a thief to hide in certain objects(esp. on desert borderlands where the "reveal after capture" is kinda bugged and doesn't cover the keeps completely).
Glad they're putting more separation between speciality/cc and dmg skills. Less spamming, use skills when the appropriate situation arises.
As for the rest, will have to see how it pans out, especially the boon balling, before complaining a bunch. It's at the point where they had to do one of two things, increase health to match the power increase in the last two expansions, or bring everything down to reasonable pre hot levels with health intact, they took the harder route and looked into everything, and I appreciate they finally took the time to do so.
I am sad about mirage cloak being nerfed 50 endurance, so 1 dodge, lol, ok. Glad I'm enjoying my support scrapper instead these days.
And lmao for people thinking the last 7 years was good balancing.
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
Hello A-net i find it good that you want to bring some balance into Guild Wars 2. But i think the way you're doing this is wrong. Nerfing power classes okay you do it to every class mhhh at some points it's good at others not. My main argument against is that WvW used to be a fast mode were you had quick fights (or some long if you fought a worthy opponent) with all this nerfs this is gone. Besides only nerfing power which is at many points WEAKER then condition damage is really bad. Most Players will play condi and power will die out in (besides some nice players). You can take a tank equipment and pressure your oppenent with a lot of condis or you play power have to manage more stats with you're gear and deals way less damage then the condi player. In my brain this makes zero sence. That's why i advice to overthink some of the changes(espacially nerfing condi more!!!!) and using your brain to create us a future where we can have fun in this game.
i have no idea yet, what this is going to be in field. but for example, (after a not very detailed reading since it's post 2am and some beer here) prime light beam (holo) power coefficient drop from 3.0 to 0,01? so we toss that elite simply, because that's never ever worth even firing on anybody... and do condi-trash gets their nerf too? i didn't catch that, but most dmg-nerfs look from afar a bit directed towards power)
This couldn't be posted in the feedback thread they posted specifically to get wvw feedback, because why?
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
Warrior rifle for sale!
Like new, hardly used since Aug 30th. Great condition, just one small scratch on the stock. Will upload pics later.
5 gold OBO
Will ship for free or you can arrange pick-up if you live nearby.
I really dont believe anet reads anything in their own thread. Experience in this forum has shown multiple times that the more new topics players make about specific concerns, the more attention those issues will get.
@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
i have no idea yet, what this is going to be in field. but for example, (after a not very detailed reading since it's post 2am and some beer here) prime light beam (holo) power coefficient drop from 3.0 to 0,01? so we toss that elite simply, because that's never ever worth even firing on anybody... and do condi-trash gets their nerf too? i didn't catch that, but most dmg-nerfs look from afar a bit directed towards power)
It has a 5 target unblockable launch effect, all the control skills have had their damage reduced, it also was reduced from 60 to 40s cooldown to compensate.
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
One thing that's concerning: nerfs to the revive skills -- but Warclaw can still stomp. Please remove that ability from Warclaw, it encourages people to not play, but to wait for downs sitting on their kitty.
I'll get right to the elephant in the room, after reading...yea, everything lol; speaking mostly to wvw here.
The changes towards how things work like warrior rifle seem great, but the damage nerfs are way, and I mean WAY too heavy handed.
You'd be better off throwing out all these coefficients and just scaling back existing ones by something like 15% to start.
The current frustration mostly revolves around people getting essentially one-shot. There is no point in stacking excess support because all the support in the game won't save you from dieing to focused damage. You also force everyone onto FB with these changes, because FB has what is necessary for the game mode to work. Nerfing FB or other supports is the polar opposite of what you need to do. I'm not saying buff FB, but you need to give other supports more stab/usability/boon access overall. By nerfing support aspects (including heal, cleanse, stab durations, cooldowns etc) you encourage people to NOT engage in fights unless they have their cooldowns, or when they've used them, just full run.
By trimming back some damage and buffing non-fb supports in aspects that make them relevant, you would...
a) stop people from getting bursted down so easily
b) make fights last longer, for more counterplay, comebacks, and fun overall (we don't play to run back across the map, see Desert BL...)
c) create more class variety
d) give people more of a reason to actually readily engage in fights
Increase condition cleanse choices slightly, and reduce condition damage per second by a third, but in turn give them 50% extra duration. Or similar.
And btw before guys so many classes could just kill you in 1-3 seconds full life, repeatedly, power dmg nerfed 33%+, it's not like now you can't do any damage you know..
Did they nerf retaliation? CBA to read every class'es changes.
Look like ranger will still be unwanted in wvw generally and with even less utility.
Staff ele looks to have little to no purpose with the number of targets for heals and co efficients nerfed into the ground.
Oh well, let's see how it all settles down - remember to post on forums screenshots of all those one shots after the balance patch (has the patch stopped the macro combo thief instant downed chain, or just made it even more effective as your counters are all on longer cool downs...). Then maybe in a year or so they will adjust damage and add in an internal cooldown so some classes can't chain hit 7 times in 0.1 seconds...
@Vova.2640 said:
This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.
If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...
The opposite will happen. You underestimate the hybrid damage your so called condi builds are doing.
Cleanses were not touched. Heals are nerfed. Some condi skills and traits are nerfed (e.g. dhuumfire burn duration lowered from 3 to 1 second).
Did you see the mirage cloak nerf in the notes?
When was the last time a trailblazer scourge was a threat to you? This build is a joke right now!
hammer rev, thief, and scourge are done.
reaper is heavily nerfed.
ranger and mes nothing important changed.
tempest loses 10 targets, otherwise just number adjustments for ele.
warrior is now split: berserker for damage, spb for CC/boonrip/support.
both dps and heal scrapper stay the same.
support fb gutted, dps fb and dh are... buffed?
These changes are not final, and we’re expecting to make further adjustments based on player feedback as well as our own internal review. Some of the upcoming functional changes still need to be looked at for potential splits as well, but we feel that the overall list is in a good enough spot to gather feedback.
Future Balance Cadence
This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes. Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner.
PvP and WvW
For this initial update, the bulk of the splits are being applied to both PvP and WvW because the underlying ideas are applicable to both modes. The end result is going to be radically different and moving forward we will be doing more separation and targeted adjustments on a per-mode basis.
You guys complain too much.
When a dev tries to fix something by communicating, you guys are very quick in resisting.
Sole reason why there is so few of it.
The changes being made are not all permanent, as said above adjustments/tweaks will be made.
I suggest you all re-read this bit above or the whole post again from begining and not just look at your class's update and start defending.
This patch is a shame.. permastealth DE will be immortal, roaming is completly death and full trailblaizer/dire build will be the only meta playable..
You can't do worse, really.
With this patch WvW will definitively killed: what will last will be only commanders karma train.
Comments
LEAVE ALL OF THAT CHANGES IN PVP. WVW IS GOING TO SUFFER. NOBODY WILL DIE ANYMORE, REMEMBER YOU STILL HAVE THE KITTEN FOODS AND UTILITY BUFFERS.
Hell yes! Thank you Cal Cohen and team! Reeling in the power creep was more than necessary, I was kinda worried that you'd go too light on the original change, but what I see now gives me hope that things will improve! Thank you so much for your work and keep at it! People will be mad about their class getting nerfed, but your outlined vision is solid! Stay strong and keep delivering!
There was some condition nerfs, but it doesn't look like enough. It's probably not going to be fun fighting people in full dire/trailblazer gear that only have 1 second less duration on a random skill while almost all your power based skills are weaker.
Overall great changes, people will still die, there's many games out there with extremely fast TTK, MMOs don't quite fit with that.
Also good that you're nerfing overall healing so we don't end up in a stalemate meta
This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.
If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...
When we complain about wvw balance, we are not talking about the power coefficients (in majority of the cases at least) we are talking about some classes being able to do a lot while others offer nothing to their groups.
These changes ARE HORRIBLE.
What you will create is every group will not run:
2 minstrel Firebrands,
2-3 trailblazer scourges
1 Spellbreaker.
Diversity will DIE completely.
Also. Why would you lower EVERY CC down to 0.01 co-eff?????
Different CCs fill in different purposes.
All this does is that it will make some forms of CC completely worthless because there will no point to use them since there will always a better one.
idk.
I think you need reconsider this.
For once, admit you might be wrong and actually reconsider before you push something like this.....
Wind of Disenchantment still needs some look at, nerfing the target cap is a move in the good direction, but it won't change the meta for smaller groups. Big groups can just run in with warriors still and perma chain bubble on them giving no counter play to it. Should just reduce the range of the skill, so you have more space to move around it, or make it castable on the ground instead of chanelled aroud the caster
Anyway, when thinking about reducing the impact of damage in this game, increasing base HP and toughness across all 9 classes seems way simpler than changing hundreds of skills...just my 2 cents.
Basically, these intended changes are throwing away more than 7 years of constant balancing by changing almost everything at the same time...
no you won't because scrapper's purity of purpose still has no icd, their cleanses didn't get touched.
these changes are gonna do the exact opposite of killing the game, they will kitten change it after 2 and half years of firebrand scourge spellbreaker weaver filling 90% of map slots.
vabbi.eu
Sounds like going forward they can make adjustments faster and on a more regular pace so they can respond to the meta. Overall i agree with a lower baseline damage for the harder hitting skills and having to combo things for max damage rather then just hitting a single button. I also agree with hard CC loosing most of its damage, that should be your setup, it should not be downing people before you even hit with your burst.
I still would like to see some of the skills that do too many things in one button press get addressed, but that should come in future patches.
Gotta start somewhere.
So.... 900 changes are basically 900 nerfs to both sustain and damage to make TTK longer.
Anerf indeed.
If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.
Well they are doing that. I mean, if you look at what the first post says and then just browse over the changes you can draw some very crude conclusions in that they are slashing down all healing further than all damage. They are removing all damage coefficiency from heavy CC skills. They are giving boons and cleanses similar treatment around a 0.5 slash in stacks and durations along with increased cooldowns.
They are giving alot of the conditions a treatment of balancing out stacks versus uptimes with fewer stacks and longer uptimes (hopefully they couple this with some look at scaling, which I have no read anything about yet). So boons are getting a heavier slash than 0.5 combined on average. Conditions are getting less of a slash than 0.5 from the few classes I've looked at so far (builds I enjoy myself). Cleanses seem to get similar treatment as boons with both stacking and cooldown changes. There is very little mentioned about rips and CC. They are putting big immunity utilities on 5min cd.
So a (again super crude and sweeping) estimate summary on balance issues would be:
Tank > Damage > Healing
Conditions > Cleanses
CC > Breaks
Rips > Boons
Condition > Power damage* Note: I don't mean it will be better, I mean it will lose comparatively less.
Condition pressure > Condition burst
Foreseeable control issues = favours ranged play
Increased base tanks = favours melee play
Decreased healing = favours supplementation with fields
Power pressure > Power burst
Scalability issues with CC and conditions (damage and soft CC)* This is an urgent possible post-drop issue to address given the past 2-3 years.
I'm not going to go deeper into it than those very broad and not always entirely accurate remarks. It is up to you and your guilds to figure things out for yourselves
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How to solve population balance
Q&A
I expected so much more.
Okay, we've got an overall reduction in damage and heal, maybe the fights will last longer.
But there's no change in the class problems related to the WvW.
Examples :
on Mesmer
All clones and phantasms of Mesmer are instantly killed, so all the skills related to breaking or generation of clones or phantasms are still useless.
Except for roaming.
The wells of the chronomancer are still useless in WvW.
Necro pets are still useless and throw themselves into the aoe to die without having done anything.
Ranger, spirits same.
As a thief he will always be able to one shot surely all the class with not too much life or shot because the sign of assassin has not been touched.
And finally the problems related to the role of supports.
Having aoe healing, based on the field with an after cast is ridiculous we move all the time in mcm.
FB heal, buff and dispell, always ahead of him in movement for the most part.
With all the other healers, we have to predict hypothetically where our allies will be in 3s if we want to give them heal, buff or other.
The worst being the balls of the ventari revenant totally random.
There are so many other problems, ....
Too much hope.
NB :
I was expecting a reduction in damage, heals and buff depending on how many targets are hit dynamically,
It would have changed the bus vs bus.
Allways a dream.
All these Damage nerfs. All this will do is make fights last for a eternity.
Guardian cleanses got nerfed and having no cooldown on Purity of purpose isnt a solution to upcoming condition meta. Why? Cause the condition re appliance rate is crazy strong right now and wont be much weaker after the patch.
If we were to go on a full condition blob right now then the condition appliance rate is 2-3x higher compared to what scrappers and firebrands can clear atm. Power creep is stronger for now so thats why we arent on condi meta.
After the condi cleanse nerf and condition stack appliance mini nerf, it will not be enough. If they want to make it work then they have to boost up condi cleanses or nerf condi appliance rate even harder.
you're kidding right? have you read these? lol
no one else will be able to do anything anymore. Power dmg will hit like a wet noodle. Pair that with 3k+ armor from dire/trailblazer/minstrel... and you have power skills critting for <2k...
They could have just adjusted every class base hp and armor slightly to increase TTK and nerf a few problematic skills. This is over-doing. Plain and simple.
Chronomancer shatters need something to be viable for wvw. Clones die instantly during fights and this makes continuum split incredibly inconsistent. Mesmer just doesn't have a spot in large scale fights at all after all the changes.
who tf are you gonna execute with a 500 dmg crit lol.
I'm actually speachless...................
Please do not get me wrong. I do not want to be rude but after reading these future patch notes I wonder if the persons tinkering with GW2 Excel tables do really play this game enough...
So these really are the "900" changes. Unbelievable.
If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.
I am wondering dmg gething lower healing gething lower what about health bars and armor? Won't the fights become super slow and tanky?
Thank you so kitten much! This preview gives me hope for WvW for the first time since late HoT. Please don't get discouraged by people getting mad that their precious classes are getting nerfed. The game needs a deep cut against the power creep. Keep up the good work!
Here is my proposal:
1. Forget all these proposed changes;
2. Increase base HP and Toughness of all 9 classes, by a % adjusted to the class characteristics;
3. Work from there and tweak base HP and Toughness of each class as necessary.
P.S. - Do not throw away more than 7 years of classes balancing.
So nerf everything and ruin 7 years of balance in 1 day kekw..... the problem that hasnt been fix is that mesmer has 5 clones 3 active. So game will remain unbalance.
All of this!
WvW is actually more like PvE than PvP, so the balance should actually lean towards that. We do large scale fights. I mean we use kitten food and utility buffers kitten. It’s more fast paced than structured PvP so ‘some’ imbalance is necessary.
We need to diversify the roles of other classes in this game.
No need to worry everything that is not core mesmer will be as good as deleted after this patch
Shield Master: Reduced might duration from 8 seconds to 1 second LUL
Finally removing the crutches that is the passive invulns/breaks
No more getting hit for 10k+ when you have 3.5k armor+
TTK means you might have to put more thought into things then just slam your burst and hope, this burst meta has carried people pretty hard, ofc they're gonna be upset about it being changed.
This definitively makes outnumbered fights a lot more doable, which is nice, this burst meta really really favored the ones doing the outnumbering.
Only bad thing is that tempest really could have used a few less nerfs and maybe even some buffs to bring it up to firebrands level.
Ögonen omges av vita och svarta penseldrag som gör att de ser större ut än vad de egentligen är. Baksidan av lodjurets öron kantas av svart päls som slutar i den karaktäristiska tofsen högst upp på örat. Lodjurets svans är kortare än de flesta andra kattdjurs.
Here are my thoughts on the balance patch as a whole, not singling out any changes. I am only focusing on power as that is all I have ever played. I have played almost exclusively WvW / PvP since launch (Ranger / SoulBeast Main).
All in all I think the intended goal of putting more stress on what skills are used at what time is a great idea. I understand increasing cool downs is the most effective way of achieving this. However I think the increase in cool downs is a bit extreme. I cant picture the flow of my burst based off of the changes made. I now envision myself kiting for days until an opportunistic moment arises and I toss a huge burst in to someone, and then kite for another day or two if I don't down the opponent.
Perhaps a beta weekend with the patch implemented would be a good idea.
Heavens (kys)(RDRM)(XOXO)
Lol you do understand that right now given the boon duration and condi cleanse nerf in upcoming changes, it will be a full blown pirate ship with condition spam. Just like back in 2017. That meta was far more worse then the current one.
I want to tell you guys a story about a weapon and its skills. The class is Mesmer, and the weapon is scepter. Once upon a time, it was a niche weapon that most people overlooked, because lets be honest, there were far better options out there. It had been balanced since launch to act a hybrid weapon, you could run it as condi, power, or hybrid. At a certain point, Anet notices that this one weapon on Mesmer isn't getting used by any meaningful number of players in any game mode. They take its highest power damage skill and buff it by 25% (a fairly huge change to a single skill) while also giving it an additional strike (which means an additional confusion stack). Throughout that balance period, people start realizing that high power damage builds can kill other high power damage builds with a single use of this skill, and hybrid builds can deal obscene amounts of damage with it while being fairly tanky. The Mesmer meta in pvp shifts heavily towards this weapon. On the next balance patch, knowing that they screwed up by overbuffing this skill, Anet nerfs it by 50% (twice as much as it was just buffed the previous patch). As a consolation prize, they give an extra clone to the block (but also raise its cooldown in wvw). Now, despite this weapon having been slightly underperforming before this whole debacle, its significantly worse instead of slightly better. Its use drops even further, essentially relegated to staff scepter/torch IH full condi braindead spam WvW roaming builds. Before this whole thing, there were a small number of players who greatly enjoyed power scepter despite it not being as strong as GS builds. It was an alternative playstyle. So, the question is. Now that Anet is reducing power coefficients across the board, what makes sense? A.) Nerf scepter's power coefficients to a similar degree as something like GS, resulting in scepter being just as underperforming as before this upcoming patch. B.) Nerf scepter's power coefficients to a lesser degree as something like GS, achieving balance. According to this preview, option A.) made more sense to the Devs.
Well this looks like a very promising start. I suspect some of the condi builds needed nerfs corresponding with power though, because without it there's a risk they'll dominate.
Additionally given that boon duration is getting hard nerfed, its good for offensive boons but for defensive boons like specially for stability, we are gona be thrown back to full blown pirateship with condition meta. Feels 2017 man.
I think I like the overall direction but it should be made sure that conditions don't become to strong.
Right now Burn-guardians are already a quite strong burstbuild if they hit at the right time. With the (maybe) upcoming condition-meta it might be even harder to cleanse the burning-stacks if they are coverd by other conditions before they kill you.
Also Burn-guardians kill siege very fast right now because it can be hard to cleanse the siege before it get's destroyed.
Also we need a very good look at the thief portal. It's currently way to strong for a thief to hide in certain objects(esp. on desert borderlands where the "reveal after capture" is kinda bugged and doesn't cover the keeps completely).
Glad they're putting more separation between speciality/cc and dmg skills. Less spamming, use skills when the appropriate situation arises.
As for the rest, will have to see how it pans out, especially the boon balling, before complaining a bunch. It's at the point where they had to do one of two things, increase health to match the power increase in the last two expansions, or bring everything down to reasonable pre hot levels with health intact, they took the harder route and looked into everything, and I appreciate they finally took the time to do so.
I am sad about mirage cloak being nerfed 50 endurance, so 1 dodge, lol, ok. Glad I'm enjoying my support scrapper instead these days.
And lmao for people thinking the last 7 years was good balancing.
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
Hello A-net i find it good that you want to bring some balance into Guild Wars 2. But i think the way you're doing this is wrong. Nerfing power classes okay you do it to every class mhhh at some points it's good at others not. My main argument against is that WvW used to be a fast mode were you had quick fights (or some long if you fought a worthy opponent) with all this nerfs this is gone. Besides only nerfing power which is at many points WEAKER then condition damage is really bad. Most Players will play condi and power will die out in (besides some nice players). You can take a tank equipment and pressure your oppenent with a lot of condis or you play power have to manage more stats with you're gear and deals way less damage then the condi player. In my brain this makes zero sence. That's why i advice to overthink some of the changes(espacially nerfing condi more!!!!) and using your brain to create us a future where we can have fun in this game.
This.
i have no idea yet, what this is going to be in field. but for example, (after a not very detailed reading since it's post 2am and some beer here) prime light beam (holo) power coefficient drop from 3.0 to 0,01? so we toss that elite simply, because that's never ever worth even firing on anybody... and do condi-trash gets their nerf too? i didn't catch that, but most dmg-nerfs look from afar a bit directed towards power)
This couldn't be posted in the feedback thread they posted specifically to get wvw feedback, because why?
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
Warrior rifle for sale!
Like new, hardly used since Aug 30th. Great condition, just one small scratch on the stock. Will upload pics later.
5 gold OBO
Will ship for free or you can arrange pick-up if you live nearby.
Don't Worry, My Dutch is OK
I really dont believe anet reads anything in their own thread. Experience in this forum has shown multiple times that the more new topics players make about specific concerns, the more attention those issues will get.
It has a 5 target unblockable launch effect, all the control skills have had their damage reduced, it also was reduced from 60 to 40s cooldown to compensate.
^ Another derailing post ^ - Anet
"Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs." - Thieves
"There's no power creep, you just don't recognize more people hitting you." - Flat Earther
One thing that's concerning: nerfs to the revive skills -- but Warclaw can still stomp. Please remove that ability from Warclaw, it encourages people to not play, but to wait for downs sitting on their kitty.
I'll get right to the elephant in the room, after reading...yea, everything lol; speaking mostly to wvw here.
The changes towards how things work like warrior rifle seem great, but the damage nerfs are way, and I mean WAY too heavy handed.
You'd be better off throwing out all these coefficients and just scaling back existing ones by something like 15% to start.
The current frustration mostly revolves around people getting essentially one-shot. There is no point in stacking excess support because all the support in the game won't save you from dieing to focused damage. You also force everyone onto FB with these changes, because FB has what is necessary for the game mode to work. Nerfing FB or other supports is the polar opposite of what you need to do. I'm not saying buff FB, but you need to give other supports more stab/usability/boon access overall. By nerfing support aspects (including heal, cleanse, stab durations, cooldowns etc) you encourage people to NOT engage in fights unless they have their cooldowns, or when they've used them, just full run.
By trimming back some damage and buffing non-fb supports in aspects that make them relevant, you would...
a) stop people from getting bursted down so easily
b) make fights last longer, for more counterplay, comebacks, and fun overall (we don't play to run back across the map, see Desert BL...)
c) create more class variety
d) give people more of a reason to actually readily engage in fights
Most people here are looking at the patch through the current balance paradigm's lense and it is making their ability to judge the patch very cloudy.
Increase condition cleanse choices slightly, and reduce condition damage per second by a third, but in turn give them 50% extra duration. Or similar.
And btw before guys so many classes could just kill you in 1-3 seconds full life, repeatedly, power dmg nerfed 33%+, it's not like now you can't do any damage you know..
Did they nerf retaliation? CBA to read every class'es changes.
Look like ranger will still be unwanted in wvw generally and with even less utility.
Staff ele looks to have little to no purpose with the number of targets for heals and co efficients nerfed into the ground.
Oh well, let's see how it all settles down - remember to post on forums screenshots of all those one shots after the balance patch (has the patch stopped the macro combo thief instant downed chain, or just made it even more effective as your counters are all on longer cool downs...). Then maybe in a year or so they will adjust damage and add in an internal cooldown so some classes can't chain hit 7 times in 0.1 seconds...
Looking forward to see how it pans out.
The opposite will happen. You underestimate the hybrid damage your so called condi builds are doing.
Cleanses were not touched. Heals are nerfed. Some condi skills and traits are nerfed (e.g. dhuumfire burn duration lowered from 3 to 1 second).
Did you see the mirage cloak nerf in the notes?
When was the last time a trailblazer scourge was a threat to you? This build is a joke right now!
hammer rev, thief, and scourge are done.
reaper is heavily nerfed.
ranger and mes nothing important changed.
tempest loses 10 targets, otherwise just number adjustments for ele.
warrior is now split: berserker for damage, spb for CC/boonrip/support.
both dps and heal scrapper stay the same.
support fb gutted, dps fb and dh are... buffed?
You guys complain too much.
When a dev tries to fix something by communicating, you guys are very quick in resisting.
Sole reason why there is so few of it.
The changes being made are not all permanent, as said above adjustments/tweaks will be made.
I suggest you all re-read this bit above or the whole post again from begining and not just look at your class's update and start defending.
This patch is a shame.. permastealth DE will be immortal, roaming is completly death and full trailblaizer/dire build will be the only meta playable..
You can't do worse, really.
With this patch WvW will definitively killed: what will last will be only commanders karma train.