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Balance Patch Preview - WvW

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  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tfw you nerf Elevated Compassion and don't touch Draconic Echo

  • Logged in just to comment, I'm ok with the glass cannon/condition heavy meta thats coming. Just, would you mind adding speed to the proyectile speed of warriors longbow, its been quite a long time since it's felt clunky.

  • MI and geyser rez are dead so if you go down you are dead its basically no down state now
    This patch might be enough to fling us back into a condi zerg meta for the first time in years

  • @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Vova.2640 said:
    This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
    Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.

    If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...

    The opposite will happen. You underestimate the hybrid damage your so called condi builds are doing.

    Cleanses were not touched. Heals are nerfed. Some condi skills and traits are nerfed (e.g. dhuumfire burn duration lowered from 3 to 1 second).

    Did you see the mirage cloak nerf in the notes?
    When was the last time a trailblazer scourge was a threat to you? This build is a joke right now!

    Read the patch notes again. Condi cleanse is also planned on being nerfed.

  • briggah.7910briggah.7910 Member ✭✭✭

    so i can't just roll my face on the keyboard now and collect bags?

  • Daredevil, Core Thief and Reaper: completly dead and usefull.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @Vova.2640 said:
    This is a joke right? These patch notes cannot be serious...
    Everyone will run full trailblazer/dire now because power wont do any dmg whatsoever.

    If this patch goes live its actually be the final blow that will kill the game mode...

    The opposite will happen. You underestimate the hybrid damage your so called condi builds are doing.

    Cleanses were not touched. Heals are nerfed. Some condi skills and traits are nerfed (e.g. dhuumfire burn duration lowered from 3 to 1 second).

    Did you see the mirage cloak nerf in the notes?
    When was the last time a trailblazer scourge was a threat to you? This build is a joke right now!

    Read the patch notes again. Condi cleanse is also planned on being nerfed.

    You should read them again. Not the important cleanses are changed. Just pick sigil of cleansing in wvw and don't care about conditions.

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    What about all the stat bloat from keep buffs and such in wvw? Those things need to be removed too if you want to tonne down the game. while i'm happy with all the passive defensive becoming useless now, i think becoming useless make them quite pointless for 300 sec cooldown, they might as well do something else, not like they are used in PvE anyway. Something like 25% less damage for endure pain, and so on

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Different damage potential between game modes is fine and actually makes sense. Im sure it will require a ton of tweaking, but I can clearly see the need.

    Significantly different cooldowns, however, is a very bad idea. It makes it harder and more awkward for those players that like to play the same builds between modes to condition muscle memory. The builds should feel basically the same - even if they do drastically different amounts of damage.

  • Tibicia.8315Tibicia.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    If you modify healing/damage slightly to fix balance issues, or you change the number of allies/enemies affected by AOE, that is OK. If it's too extreme, you will make balance issues worse, but the players will figure it out. If I suddenly find a skill useless, I'll stop using it, and switch to something else, or switch classes until everyone is playing the same thing.

    My problem with this split is skill timing. I am a good player who learns the timing of my skills. I don't have to look to know when a skill is ready, or when I can click the next button for the next skill. Whenever there is a patch that changes timing on skills, I find myself horribly messed up for awhile. I also play several character classes, and find it frustrating to have to re-learn all of them, whenever there are major timing changes for multiple class skills that I normally use. It is what it is, and eventually I get back to my old self.

    So now let's throw a wrench in to things and split timing on game modes! Holy...xxxx...Batman!

    I prefer WvW, but historically I have enjoyed playing through the stories as new content comes out, participate in holiday events, sometimes help kill a big boss, and maybe on rare occassion do some dungeon with someone who begs. With timing splits, don't expect me to do anything outside of WvW, anymore. As it is, I was so bored with the recent holiday and the current new content, that I've been playing another game.

    Why do you care? Well, it's the PvE mode of the game that encouraged me to get out my cr card and buy skins, all these years. I don't buy skins to look pretty when I fight, I buy skins to look pretty when I hang out with my guildies in PvE. If I don't do PvE (and I won't if I have to relearn 18 different ways to play all of my characters every time you do a balance patch), then I'll save my cr card for elsewhere.

  • Ranissa.7380Ranissa.7380 Member
    edited February 1, 2020

    OK - read the title instead of just following the link... panic averted. However - won't be trying to druid in WvW ever again. WOW, huge changes.

  • "For this update, we’re targeting a 2.0 power coefficient as the new baseline for big damage skills"
    What are the supposed big damage skills ele has? I'm only seeing reductions on all of our stuff wth

  • @Ranissa.7380 said:
    All these months I had stuck it out. Waiting and hoping things would get better, or at least not worse. I stuck with it because I really enjoy raiding. But now you have maid raids just about impossible for any class I enjoy. Yep - done with this game. As a point of interest, my whole raid group has been drifting away and basically plans to quit now. You just LOVE making the PvE content impossible.

    Read the title... these changes are for PvP/WvW only.

  • @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    To all of you just looking at your one class:

    They are treating most of the existing balance roughly the same over all classes. Going forward that is obviously not the way to balance out classes but like CMC is stating in the announcement - this is not a balance pass it is to set a new base point - balance passes will come later. Almost every single one of these changes slashes things down towards 0.5 of previous values. The healing stuff seems to gravitate closer to 0.5 slashes with more diversity among the damage stuff. Assuming the healing-damage balance values were scuffed and only obscured by the damage-tank values: that doesn't have to be a bad thing.

    Obviously they will need to iterate on the changes and look for class balances going forward while keeping somewhat of an urgency of that considering for how short of a time we have been in the recent better balance. However, nothing in this thread stands out from what has been communicated: This is a broad sweeping slash. Balance is for later and balance issues will appear. Hopefully the sweep is broad enough to at least let the imbalances that appear feel like "fresh" problems for a while. When this patch drops however, do not expect the typical class-class (or my class!) balance that people tend to stare themselves blind on to be better than it is now. Expect it to be worse for a while. Expect broader systemic things to work better.

    Most of this stuff is as expected and will bring about a much needed return to base tank values again. If there is any disappointment with the information at this point in time, it would be the kind of stuff that Lhiash brings up above. I really thought they would be looking into some of the more glaring design (as opposed to balance) problems with a select few specialisations. Some of them have issues with whatever role they are designed for and now would have been a good time to adress that before making balance passes. The Deadeye is a poor design. The Druid has design issues with its role etc. Those are not balance issues or base figure issues. They are design issues and would be good to get out of the way quickly.

    I agree: this is basically aNet pressing down a big reset button and whatever result we'll get, it'll be following by a serie of adjustment patches.
    I don't have any issues with that at all, provided of course that the adjustement pashe will be done with delicacy than the usual hammer swing that we got many times.

    However, this reset only impact damage, healing and durations/CDs and does not adress some of the fondamental flaws of the design of some of the game mechanics or some of the classes/elites.:You mentionned Deadeye... This is obviously one the best example of a broken class that has access to a broken mechanic (stealth).
    I don't mind that a glass cannon class is able to kill you fast by a combination of stunlocks and burst skills. What I object to is that he should not be able to (near) perma stealth at will and have high mobility all at the same time (all that while being able to burst you from 1500 range). Same goes for classes that are able to dish out massive damage while (near) perma evading all attacks on him.

    This patch addresses the issue with the current Power Creep meta. Good!
    But if aNet's goal is really to bring balance, then these broken mechanics needs to be reworked in great depth.

  • Elementalist Owner.7802Elementalist Owner.7802 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Overall the power adjustment looks great, and I'm very excited to see this in action. I do have one concern, and that is with cleanses. While I think it's fantastic that you're looking to reduce the burst potential of conditions and extend their durations instead, I strongly suggest toning down cleanse abilities such as Manta of Lore and Fumigate, which are not listed on these notes. Having the right balance of conditions/cleanses makes for some interesting gameplay decisions, for example:

    I have confusion stacks on me, and my opponent has all of their defenses on cooldown. They also have another strong condition they can hit me with such as chill or slow. I have a few options. I can choose to cleanse the confusion and attack them while their defenses are down, and hope to evade the chill/slow when they inevitably use it on me. Or I can attack through the confusion, sacrificing a chunk of my health but keeping my cleanse for when they apply their other condi(s), so I can cleanse them all at once.

    Being able to constantly cleanse everything makes for easy-mode, uninteresting gameplay. Take my example and play it through now. Oh, I have confusion on me? I'll just cleanse that real quick. Enemy applies slow/chill? I'll go ahead and cleanse that too!

    I do understand the fear of conditions becoming out of control again, so I understand why you would be cautious with the nerfs to cleanses. I had just hoped to at least see these skills on the list.

  • @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    To all of you just looking at your one class:

    Getting nerfed to the ground for a game mode most don't play? I think some salt is understandable.

    But yeah, things will re-balance quickly and in a few months a new profession will be the subject of a dozen "Too OP. Plz nerf" posts a day.

  • desu.2514desu.2514 Member ✭✭

    Worst patch notes I saw in a long long time. Sack this balance team. I thought the old one was bad but yea, they look like gods now after reading this. You will loose the majority of the few players left in wvw and pvp.

    If your goal is to delete guild wars you deserve a gold star.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @subversiontwo.7501 said:
    To all of you just looking at your one class:

    Getting nerfed to the ground for a game mode most don't play? I think some salt is understandable.

    But yeah, things will re-balance quickly and in a few months a new profession will be the subject of a dozen "Too OP. Plz nerf" posts a day.

    You do realize this is for WvW and PvP?

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    With all this talk of profession balance, please remember to further evaluate runes and sigils. There are still some outlying overperformers, Tormenting Runes being the most notable to me, especially with sustain being brought down. Play a Mallyx Rev and tell me that the runes are balanced in any way, shape, or form.

    While I agree, I don't think they have developed the tech to split runes and sigils between PvE/WvW, so we kinda have to compromise with the PvE crowd.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I really dont believe anet reads anything in their own thread. Experience in this forum has shown multiple times that the more new topics players make about specific concerns, the more attention those issues will get.

    You think they’ll read this thread?

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I really dont believe anet reads anything in their own thread. Experience in this forum has shown multiple times that the more new topics players make about specific concerns, the more attention those issues will get.

    You think they’ll read this thread?

    Prolly will read the title. After more ppl make more new topics about disliking anets need to make condition pirateship meta, should get more attention into their eyes.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Which they will merge.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Fine by me as long as they read.

  • Arctisavange.7261Arctisavange.7261 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Elementalist Owner.7802 said:
    Overall the power adjustment looks great, and I'm very excited to see this in action. I do have one concern, and that is with cleanses. While I think it's fantastic that you're looking to reduce the burst potential of conditions and extend their durations instead, I strongly suggest toning down cleanse abilities such as Manta of Lore and Fumigate, which are not listed on these notes. Having the right balance of conditions/cleanses makes for some interesting gameplay decisions, for example:

    I have confusion stacks on me, and my opponent has all of their defenses on cooldown. They also have another strong condition they can hit me with such as chill or slow. I have a few options. I can choose to cleanse the confusion and attack them while their defenses are down, and hope to evade the chill/slow when they inevitably use it on me. Or I can attack through the confusion, sacrificing a chunk of my health but keeping my cleanse for when they apply their other condi(s), so I can cleanse them all at once.

    Being able to constantly cleanse everything makes for easy-mode, uninteresting gameplay. Take my example and play it through now. Oh, I have confusion on me? I'll just cleanse that real quick. Enemy applies slow/chill? I'll go ahead and cleanse that too!

    I do understand the fear of conditions becoming out of control again, so I understand why you would be cautious with the nerfs to cleanses. I had just hoped to at least see these skills on the list.

    Youre speaking from a roaming perspective right now but you dont mention anything from blobbing perspective. Just because on roaming you face enemies who have anti condition utilities, doesnt make cleansing we have right now OP. Theres a counter build to absolutely everything, even in sPvP so youre looking things completely out of reality.

    The fear of conditions is cause before the current power creep meta, there was condition spam meta with pirateship. It was so horrible, so dull and was blatantly killing the enjoyment in WvW mass scale fights. Back then the condi cleanse was also stronger compared to how it is now and yet you still died easily to conditions cause in a 50 man blob the amount conditions being casted was INSANELY huge. The condition re appliance rate compared to cleanse rate clearly will favor the first part by miles as soon as the nerf patch goes through.

    Additionally nobody sane enough can make any sort of melee pushes with 1 or 2 seconds of stability, thats just insane. You got crowd control skills and movement impairing conditions hitting you from 1200 range and somehow that 1-2 seconds of stability is suppose to get you to melee range? What even?`

    Anyway in mass scale PvP, WvW new meta based on current patch notes will be condition with full scale pirateship, something we experienced before and utterly hated.

  • Bezerker.2379Bezerker.2379 Member ✭✭✭

    My feedback is that this is too extreme and too late in the game.

    Stats are not changing. Neither is most abilities just their numbers.

    All this will do is raise TTK, make certain classes that have been a certain way for years far less enjoyable (whether they are viable or not even), and ensures that classes with no mobility/defense will still face the same issues they always have. (Example, a fresh air weaver is basically toast now.)

    Ultimately, I may represent a minority, but I don't mind the crazy sustain/damage we have currently. I like the speed of the TTK. I agree some classes need some tweaks, but overall, this just feels drastic and not fun.

    Perhaps I am just getting old, but I've been playing this game since Alpha. I primarily only play wvw/pvp. I don't even think I've beaten zhaitan on any char. This smells of unfun and frustrating.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lol.. it’ll be a mod....

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Tfw you nerf Elevated Compassion and don't touch Draconic Echo

    Funnier one to me is nerfing Lasting Legacy and not touching Incensed Response.

  • Lonewolf Kai.3682Lonewolf Kai.3682 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi Everyone,

    Today we’re previewing the upcoming balance update. We’re starting with a bit of process and general thoughts, then following up with a pile of patch notes. Note that this post is identical for the PvP and WvW subforums (minus the changes to PvP build items), but duplicated for the purpose of more easily obtaining mode-specific feedback.

    This post will only be discussing the competitive splits. Check out the rest of the update at https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/96747/balance-patch-preview-global

    The scope of this update ended up being slightly unreal in the raw number of changes, but there are only a handful of underlying ideas that were then considered against every skill and trait in the game. It so happens that there are a lot of those around here, and so a lot of changes ended up being made.

    These changes are not final, and we’re expecting to make further adjustments based on player feedback as well as our own internal review. Some of the upcoming functional changes still need to be looked at for potential splits as well, but we feel that the overall list is in a good enough spot to gather feedback.

    Future Balance Cadence

    This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm than it is a regular balance update, and the result is a giant set of changes. Moving forward with competitive balance, we want to make smaller adjustments more often. The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner.

    PvP and WvW

    For this initial update, the bulk of the splits are being applied to both PvP and WvW because the underlying ideas are applicable to both modes. The end result is going to be radically different and moving forward we will be doing more separation and targeted adjustments on a per-mode basis.

    Now we’re going to dive into more detail on some of the main targets of the update and our main goals moving forward. If you have no interest in power coefficients, damage calculations, or other assorted jargon you may want to scroll down until you hit the start of the patch notes.

    Damage

    For this update, we’re targeting a 2.0 power coefficient as the new baseline for big damage skills. These are the skills like Eviscerate; skills that exist to deal large amounts of damage and not do much else. Skills that provide more and more value in other aspects (cc, sustain, mobility, defense, etc.) will have lower power coefficients. In some cases, we’ve pared down the secondary value and in others we’ve shaved the damage. It really comes down to what the desired purpose of the skill is, and as such how much of the skill’s power budget should be spent on damage. The 2.0 is not a hard cap, just the general top-end for single hit, high damaging abilities.

    One thing to keep in mind with damage calculation is the differences in weapon strength. For example, a 2.0 coefficient with an axe is approximately equivalent to a 1.82 coefficient with a hammer due to the hammer’s higher weapon strength.

    With a marauder amulet and no outside modifiers, a 2.0 coefficient with a 1-handed weapon equates to about a 3.9k crit against a light-armor target. Our goal here is that players should need to invest into damage traits, slot offensive utility skills, and sequence abilities around might and vulnerability stacks in order to achieve significant damage numbers.

    Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but we’re continuing to push conditions toward less burst potential by reducing the number of stacks and extending durations where it makes sense. Some of this is handled on the skill level, and we’re also making heavy reductions to traits that apply conditions on hit, on crit, or on other conditions being applied.

    Cooldowns and Durations

    We want cooldowns to be felt. Longer cooldowns promote more calculated usage of skills; if skills are used poorly it should create an opportunity for the enemy to push their advantage. Shorter durations of high impact buffs have a similar effect. Skillful timing is going to be rewarded, and poor usage is going to be exploitable by enemies. In some cases, it’s still going to make sense to have a longer duration attached to a longer cooldown, but most of the time we’re looking at shorter durations for things like stability, protection, quickness, high might stacks, among others.

    Sustain

    Raw healing is always going to be closely tied to damage. As damage comes down, healing needs to be reduced as well. As mentioned above, we want to see more opportunity between cooldowns to push through damage, so we’re primarily targeting skills and traits with lower cooldowns or constantly pulsing heals.

    Instant Skills and Passive Traits

    Counterplay is important. Skills that have a major impact on an enemy player should allow that player the opportunity to react, which means that we want to avoid instant skills that do large amounts of damage or hard cc. In general, this means that instant skills are going to deal less damage or focus more on a secondary effect where applicable. Traits that fire instant skills, or that trigger an offensive effect under easy to fulfill conditions (on hit, on crit, mid-high health threshold, etc.) received similar considerations.

    We’ve also done a pass on traits that provide automatic defensive triggers. Traits that negate incoming CC or grant hard damage mitigation are getting large cooldown increases. Lesser defensive procs (protection on cc, auto condition cleanse, etc.) are also receiving longer cooldowns or reduced effectiveness, though not as extreme. We want to promote more active gameplay and this update is a good opportunity to make heavier adjustments to these passive traits.

    Patch Notes

    Moving on to the patch notes. Remember that these changes are not locked down and we still have some time to iterate. We look forward to seeing your feedback.

    -The Systems Team

    This is a joke right? If not, joke's going to be on you. This will absolutely push away some players.

    I was pretty upset with this myself. I'll give it a try but I have a feeling this is the nail in the coffin.

    “Be like water”-Bruce Lee

  • FINALLY SOMETHING DECENT GOOD JOB ANET! Long fight, mean more skills to show, im liking this EVEN if my main is getting nerf really bad im ok with it

  • Please work better on the balance. Do not apply this patch.. i dont like it. We dont like it.

    Officer of Equinox Solstice [TIME] / Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    WvW server: Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • Calisanna.8732Calisanna.8732 Member ✭✭✭

    This might be a silly question but how will the power nerfs effect solo capping of towers? If powers gonna hit like a wet noodle, will they adjust npc health and iron guards?

  • Nah they wont adjust it more then likely. As of now the meta based on balance patches is heading to full blown condition orientation which still deals a ton of damage, so either way the lords should still melt.
    Problem now is gona be also getting inside the towers or even keeps, given that they are sieged up and sieges like arrowcarts, cannons and mortars wont get any nerf on their power damage. That means given healing also will get nerfed, then its gona be pretty hard to sustain while trying to crack inside, especially if you also add in freecasting defenders on the walls or even a blob camping inside.

    So in your case as solo, you better pray theres nobody with a AC inside the tower.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    I really dont believe anet reads anything in their own thread. Experience in this forum has shown multiple times that the more new topics players make about specific concerns, the more attention those issues will get.

    You think they’ll read this thread?

    Prolly will read the title. After more ppl make more new topics about disliking anets need to make condition pirateship meta, should get more attention into their eyes.

    On the contrary, people started leaving the game in masses when it prominently the melee meta. When condition came into play, people started coming back. I know melee players don't like to hear this but it's a simple fact. Most people do not share the sentiment of melee or melee boon-ball combat. It's about as boring as boring can get along with it being highly restrictive to other classes.

    Barely anybody want to go back to the warrior/guardian meta of old. The only counter to that is condition, so if the melee players want to play melee, then their groups need to be organized in such a way that eliminate the condition users first engaging. But I already know what it comes down to, players want to run in spamming #1 with every boon on the book on them. They don't want to take damage, if they take any damage (such as a ranger hitting them for 1-2k), they scream to nerf the class. If they hit with the bunch of conditions because their group can bother to organize a couple of resistance-givers into their parties, they want conditions rendered completely ineffective.

    Enough people have left the game already, the only way they can possibly tilt that back and hopefully bring more people in, is to tilt the battle in favor of ranged, condition, and/or ranged AoE. If that means for the betterment of the game that some melee players get mad, quit, and stop posting for unnecessary nerfs to classes that are already ineffective as is, then so be it.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems like my core power necro and core scepter/dagger ele didn't get any boost. Sucks.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Calisanna.8732Calisanna.8732 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Nah they wont adjust it more then likely. As of now the meta based on balance patches is heading to full blown condition orientation which still deals a ton of damage, so either way the lords should still melt.
    Problem now is gona be also getting inside the towers or even keeps, given that they are sieged up and sieges like arrowcarts, cannons and mortars wont get any nerf on their power damage. That means given healing also will get nerfed, then its gona be pretty hard to sustain while trying to crack inside, especially if you also add in freecasting defenders on the walls or even a blob camping inside.

    So in your case as solo, you better pray theres nobody with a AC inside the tower.

    Hmmm I hadn’t even started to think about siege dmg with changes to sustain. Gonna be so much fun to hit ybs objectives she says sarcastically 😂

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020
  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Yikes. Good intentions with terrible execution. More frequent balance is good, but damage changes and cooldown increases miss the mark. You need skill and class overhauls entirely and to remove a lot of expansion content from WvW.

    People naively whining about TTK won it seems lol. Final nail in the coffin for GW2's PvP scene is my guess.

    This doesn't really seem to change anything about some builds being wildly better than others or any real facet of the gameplay or metas in general except for the fact that fights will just be about slapping each other until eventually someone flubs a rotation. There are now no high-impact skills to properly punish people with, and WvW remains imbalanced more than before due to a lack of accessibility in gear options. Sure boon access is lessened, but the windows of counterplay that were opened are massively cut down with the lowered damage values to core weapon skills, traits, and abilities that it doesn't really matter. HoT/PoF armor combos are going to reign supreme by larger margins than ever because they have way more innate sustain and just more stats in general. TTK wasn't the issue as much as some misinformed people kept screaming, and builds that invested heavily in damage were already weak. TTK was only a problem because external factors keep bolstering damage and sustain too much on specific builds and combinations that rode too heavily in both. Notably, shared boons, Warclaw, and food.

    Tier7 food also just got even more significant. 10% DR and a push to having the most stats possible are going to be even more important because gameplay will be relegated to builds with high uptime for damage and sustain. To which, builds that already lacked either or one or the other were hard-nerfed, and a lot of stuff that made off-meta choices semi-viable cut down dramatically.

    I'm also not seeing any changes to proc sigils which were probably the effects most guilty of lacking counterplay due to raw damage rather than traits.

    You have to admit most of the HoT+ content needs to be reworked and nerfed hard. PoF especially. The core game is and was not terribly imbalanced and a refusal to revert the expansion powercreep and making broad strokes including attacking stuff including perfectly-reasonable core game/core weapon skills is just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

    If you don't acknowledge that expansion stat combos, T7 food, Warclaw, and most of PoF designs were massive mistakes there's no saving this mode and frankly all this effort was wasted because the modes WILL die for good.

    Your ex-pro players and AT winning scene, longtime core group of players, WvW fanatics and buildcrafters ALL near-unanimously agree with what's wrong and have been shouting for very targeted changes for years.

    I will be helpful and remind you of the issues with low ttk in this game. Just one example...

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    30k+ backstabs in permastealth SA with absolutely zero risk lol.

    Like... this was so easy not to screw up and somehow they still managed to lol.

    Inb4 backstab nerfed next patch in the wake of D/P stealth-camping Deadeye.

  • geist.4126geist.4126 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arctisavange.7261 said:
    Anyway in mass scale PvP, WvW new meta based on current patch notes will be condition with full scale pirateship, something we experienced before and utterly hated.

    Can you not speak for me, when you talk "we experienced and utterly hated". I prefer pirate ship any time over this "stack, stealth, steamroll" meta.

  • style.6173style.6173 Member ✭✭✭

    I am definitely interested in trying all these changes. As long as there are frequent updates afterwards, this should be fun.