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  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Yikes. Good intentions with terrible execution. More frequent balance is good, but damage changes and cooldown increases miss the mark. You need skill and class overhauls entirely and to remove a lot of expansion content from WvW.

    People naively whining about TTK won it seems lol. Final nail in the coffin for GW2's PvP scene is my guess.

    This doesn't really seem to change anything about some builds being wildly better than others or any real facet of the gameplay or metas in general except for the fact that fights will just be about slapping each other until eventually someone flubs a rotation. There are now no high-impact skills to properly punish people with, and WvW remains imbalanced more than before due to a lack of accessibility in gear options. Sure boon access is lessened, but the windows of counterplay that were opened are massively cut down with the lowered damage values to core weapon skills, traits, and abilities that it doesn't really matter. HoT/PoF armor combos are going to reign supreme by larger margins than ever because they have way more innate sustain and just more stats in general. TTK wasn't the issue as much as some misinformed people kept screaming, and builds that invested heavily in damage were already weak. TTK was only a problem because external factors keep bolstering damage and sustain too much on specific builds and combinations that rode too heavily in both. Notably, shared boons, Warclaw, and food.

    Tier7 food also just got even more significant. 10% DR and a push to having the most stats possible are going to be even more important because gameplay will be relegated to builds with high uptime for damage and sustain. To which, builds that already lacked either or one or the other were hard-nerfed, and a lot of stuff that made off-meta choices semi-viable cut down dramatically.

    I'm also not seeing any changes to proc sigils which were probably the effects most guilty of lacking counterplay due to raw damage rather than traits.

    You have to admit most of the HoT+ content needs to be reworked and nerfed hard. PoF especially. The core game is and was not terribly imbalanced and a refusal to revert the expansion powercreep and making broad strokes including attacking stuff including perfectly-reasonable core game/core weapon skills is just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

    If you don't acknowledge that expansion stat combos, T7 food, Warclaw, and most of PoF designs were massive mistakes there's no saving this mode and frankly all this effort was wasted because the modes WILL die for good.

    Your ex-pro players and AT winning scene, longtime core group of players, WvW fanatics and buildcrafters ALL near-unanimously agree with what's wrong and have been shouting for very targeted changes for years.

    I will be helpful and remind you of the issues with low ttk in this game. Just one example...

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    30k+ backstabs in permastealth SA with absolutely zero risk lol.

    Like... this was so easy not to screw up and somehow they still managed to lol.

    Inb4 backstab nerfed next patch in the wake of D/P stealth-camping Deadeye.

    Thanks for completely taking my old thread out of context.
    The thread was about MBS and how easy it was to gain malice, and WAS a meta build when I made the post. The complaint was about how the class was designed around camping permanent stealth with intermittent hits featuring +70% increased damage to backstab (over 2x combined multiplier with other traits and utils). It's a criticism of terrible design that was overlooked SOMEHOW despite being downright obvious and literally criticized as a possibility we want to avoid in my DE proposal which I know some of the team read thanks to confirmation by a former ANet employee.

    So try again? TTK wasn't the issue. The stuff from the expansions was, full stop. Backstab at 2.4 was not OP because people would be running D/D if it was. No, it's low-counterplay like sustained stealth and builds with high damage also having too much utility, which is heavily-influenced by expansion content like BD DrD and everything about DE. Same is said about Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, Holo, Mirage, and so forth.

    TTK used to be higher if you tried. I've reached 15k+27k on CnD+Backstab in core game so I don't see your point, either. 40k sub-2s combos on re-rework reaper. It's always been high and it's fine if it is.

    Which is exactly what I said. Almost everything about the expansion content has directly made the game worse, along with external factors like +300 passive power from PotK and food, and is the reason for high TTK over anything related to core game.

    If you want to criticize what I have to say, give me some evidence contrary rather than taking older posts of mine which have since been nullified thanks to FIXING THE CRITICISM out of context.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    I am of the mind its hard to say how these will work out till they are live numbers on paper often mean nothing in pvp / wvw combat. The thing is if these updates are just number changes and not skill effects changes then that not realty updating the crazy numbers of skills its like saying we are doing something +10% to every thing so we are updating all of the skills in the game it feels a bit lacking so i hope there more to come. On that note if just the skills are getting updated and not hp / def then they are missing a massive part of the problem in wvw and over all pvp balancing. If you drop all of the dmg in the game then ppl just need to stack more vit and be unkillable with out the need of doing into dmg -% any more.

    Ele is my main class and i must say i am a bit lost the raw dmg skills that do nothing more then dmg got hit harder then they made it seem they would. That and the passive skills on ele i hope anet dose not think of armor of earth even close to the same level as the war effects 300 sec on something like armor of earth is a joke just rename it do "not use this trait."

    I realty hope there more where effects are updated and not just numbers.

    I must add the timing of this preview is odd with every thing that went on today.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Yikes. Good intentions with terrible execution. More frequent balance is good, but damage changes and cooldown increases miss the mark. You need skill and class overhauls entirely and to remove a lot of expansion content from WvW.

    People naively whining about TTK won it seems lol. Final nail in the coffin for GW2's PvP scene is my guess.

    This doesn't really seem to change anything about some builds being wildly better than others or any real facet of the gameplay or metas in general except for the fact that fights will just be about slapping each other until eventually someone flubs a rotation. There are now no high-impact skills to properly punish people with, and WvW remains imbalanced more than before due to a lack of accessibility in gear options. Sure boon access is lessened, but the windows of counterplay that were opened are massively cut down with the lowered damage values to core weapon skills, traits, and abilities that it doesn't really matter. HoT/PoF armor combos are going to reign supreme by larger margins than ever because they have way more innate sustain and just more stats in general. TTK wasn't the issue as much as some misinformed people kept screaming, and builds that invested heavily in damage were already weak. TTK was only a problem because external factors keep bolstering damage and sustain too much on specific builds and combinations that rode too heavily in both. Notably, shared boons, Warclaw, and food.

    Tier7 food also just got even more significant. 10% DR and a push to having the most stats possible are going to be even more important because gameplay will be relegated to builds with high uptime for damage and sustain. To which, builds that already lacked either or one or the other were hard-nerfed, and a lot of stuff that made off-meta choices semi-viable cut down dramatically.

    I'm also not seeing any changes to proc sigils which were probably the effects most guilty of lacking counterplay due to raw damage rather than traits.

    You have to admit most of the HoT+ content needs to be reworked and nerfed hard. PoF especially. The core game is and was not terribly imbalanced and a refusal to revert the expansion powercreep and making broad strokes including attacking stuff including perfectly-reasonable core game/core weapon skills is just obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

    If you don't acknowledge that expansion stat combos, T7 food, Warclaw, and most of PoF designs were massive mistakes there's no saving this mode and frankly all this effort was wasted because the modes WILL die for good.

    Your ex-pro players and AT winning scene, longtime core group of players, WvW fanatics and buildcrafters ALL near-unanimously agree with what's wrong and have been shouting for very targeted changes for years.

    I will be helpful and remind you of the issues with low ttk in this game. Just one example...

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    30k+ backstabs in permastealth SA with absolutely zero risk lol.

    Like... this was so easy not to screw up and somehow they still managed to lol.

    Inb4 backstab nerfed next patch in the wake of D/P stealth-camping Deadeye.

    Thanks for completely taking my old thread out of context.
    The thread was about MBS and the whole passive Malice gain over time thing, which is exclusive to the pre-rework DE, and WAS a meta build when I made the post. The complaint was about how the class was designed around camping permanent stealth featuring +70% increased damage to backstab (over 2x combined multiplier with other traits and utils). It's a criticism of terrible design that was overlooked SOMEHOW despite being downright obvious and literally criticized as a possibility we want to avoid in my DE proposal which I know some of the team read thanks to confirmation by a former ANet employee.

    So try again? TTK wasn't the issue. The stuff from the expansions was, full stop. Backstab at 2.4 was not OP because people would be running D/D if it was. No, it's low-counterplay like sustained stealth and builds with high damage also having too much utility, which is heavily-influenced by expansion content like BD DrD and everything about DE. Same is said about Boonbeast, Spellbreaker, Holo, Mirage, and so forth.

    TTK used to be higher if you tried. I've reached 15k+27k on CnD+Backstab in core game so I don't see your point, either. 40k sub-2s combos on re-rework reaper. It's always been high and it's fine if it is.

    Which is exactly what I said. Almost everything about the expansion content has directly made the game worse, along with external factors like +300 passive power from PotK and food, and is the reason for high TTK over anything related to core game.

    If you want to criticize what I have to say, give me some evidence contrary rather than taking older posts of mine which have since been nullified thanks to reworks FIXING THE CRITICISM out of context.

    Thread- "Why do so few people care about fighting"

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    Two words:
    Imbalanced combat.

    Why fight when the very act of doing so isn't fun? Excessive powercreep is what kills PvP games, and why most of the people interested in the fights quit WvW and GW2 as a whole.

    What was that about ttk again?

    Edit- And to make a clear point...

    You- "Excessive powercreep is what kills PvP games"

    CMC- “We have identified the overall power of the game has become an issue and we wish to address this in the competitive game modes.”

    … … ….

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Lhiash.4910 said:
    No nerfs to perma stealth DE? They still can port people after easily hiding in keeps, really adding portal to thief was the worst design decision you guys made.

    +1

    Anet had a chance to win the community Trust and Faith by dealing with Toxicity harshly. Yet again, they intentionally chose to instead give Toxicity more reasons and excuses to stay by leaving Toxic Stealth untouched.

    Once again, Anet is not Committed, Honest,Truthful and not being Serious to resolving our concerns

    WHERE IS "COUNTERPLAY IS IMPORTANT" AGAINST TOXIC STEALTH??!!

    Upcoming Balance Patch Including Toxic Stealth = F

    -Absolutely No Shame!!-

    -We Deserve Better. It's As Simple As That!!-

  • Heibi.4251Heibi.4251 Member ✭✭✭

    I think you are going a little overboard on the nerf hammer. You're making DRASTIC damage nerfs which will affect balance and make battles last way too long. Instead of fixing what is truly broken you are basically making everyone hit with a wet noodle. And the cool down nerfs are pretty bad. What is probably going to happen is a lot of players will just stop playing the competitive modes.

    I noticed thief stealth wasn't really addressed. It is ridiculous at the moment. And the portal you gave them needs to be done away with or at least reduced to only the thief being able to use it in pvp/wvw.

    Henge of Denravi Commander
    CA/CH/HOD/AIR

  • For transparency, I am a spellbreaker main, so very well may be biased, but these are my take on solely the warrior changes (since i'm not educated enough on other classes to comment on them). These are the things that seemed overkill/unnecessary to me, but it seems like everything is getting that way.

    Mage Bane Tether: shouldn't be nerfed to 1 stack of might. Simply applying the 2 stacks from pvp and reducing the power multiplier from tether (10% to 3-7%) would be more balanced in my view, especially with the massive reductions on defense line and endure pain (again, may be fueled by bias).

    Shake It Off: Nerfing the condi clear is enough, increasing the CD by 1.5x is pretty insane. I understand increasing it slightly (i.e. from 50s to 60s), but 50s to 75s is pretty ridiculous.

    Berserker stance: Why does this have the same CD as endure pain? Never did understand that, especially since it is not boon generation and can be stripped. Doesn't seem to me like the CD needs to be increased.

    Might Makes Right: 133->69 seems overkill, but this is probably bias.

    Rampage: I don't think this is going to be nerfed enough. I like the pvp version, since it serves a specific purpose.

    Defense line: THANK GOD YOU NEUTERED THIS THING. IT WAS AN ABOMINATION AND DEFENSE SPELL WAS STRAIGHT MONKEY.

    A last note, not about warrior, but about guardian:
    Why does Whirling Wrath on guard still slow movement speed? Reaper 4 and Berserker Arcing have larger radiuses and don't slow movement speed. War Axe 5 has the same radius but increases movement speed. It seems to me that with the evolution of skills of a similar type, it should at least move at normal movement speed.

  • Javoker.7046Javoker.7046 Member
    edited February 1, 2020

    Dragon Banner: do I even exist ?.

    One of the most annoying kitten to fight against in WvW when you are outnumbered and not a single change about it.

    Let's just say that banner never does more than 1k dmg and doesn't CC at all so there was no need for any change 😁 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

  • Keep it up guys. Any change is good change in my eyes. Sure, there'll still be some kinks to iron out after the patch goes live but I like the idea of squashing Power Creep and I'm interested to see how the 4-6 weeks Cadence works out. I think people are overlooking the statement you made with regards to reducing Condi-Stacks, as opposed to listing out every single Condi-skill that was getting a stack reduction. Maybe make that a little more clearer if that's what you're going for, since people are just QQing over their favourite class being nerfed and not really paying too much attention it seems.

    I believe that narrowing the avenues for damage will essentially dumb-down skill rotations, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as splitting skills between dealing damage and dealing CC should encourage smarter/more organised group-play, which can only be a good thing for WvW. Instead of what we have now, which is: Winds 1, Winds 2, Stab 1, Stab 2, Everyone Else Spam DMG on Winds. Roles within squads are going to be more defined, which will force people to build for those specific roles, rather than being able to Tank everything and still output top DPS numbers & CC & heal & so on & so forth.

    Final note, I'm beyond happy with the Elusive Mind trait change. The stunbreak was broken as hell and the nerf essentially killed the trait but it's nice to see Mesmer actually getting a somewhat-reliable source of condi-clear. (Especially if you run Energy and Cleansing Sigils)

  • thepenmonster.3621thepenmonster.3621 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    You do realize this is for WvW and PvP?

    I wouldn't have written "Getting nerfed to the ground for a game mode most don't play? " for the Silverwastes.

    Anyway, the nerfs might be a good excuse to finish getting the vanity mounts so I can avoid the newly dangerous mobs.

    ...

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem is invulnerable/evade, some classes run glass cannon, while spamming evade/invulnerable, replace all invulnerable with aegis or even remove aegis too, and remove evade from everything not a dodge roll, This patch looks like bunker meta inc, the issue isn't glass cannons though current damage is high if their survival relied on 2 dodges, its glass cannon with uncounterable evade/invulnerable.
    Some run bunker with all the evade/invulnerable spam, and at any sign of trouble run away, but as a zerk the condi bunkers will kill you before the evades/invulnerable run out with passive trash condi.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @Clownmug.8357 said:

    @Pterikdactyl.7630 said:
    Tfw you nerf Elevated Compassion and don't touch Draconic Echo

    Funnier one to me is nerfing Lasting Legacy and not touching Incensed Response.

    Lol yeah, by all means gut that dumb trait.

  • Greetings. Too much to know what the overall effects will be.
    Current thought is: Skills/Traits with a 5 minute cool down doesn't make for compelling game play. Either reduce their effects, or rework the skill/trait into something more useful.

  • anonymous.7812anonymous.7812 Member ✭✭✭

    Cal,

    If you can before the patch, please also look at Siege damage and health, since our damage will be nerfed against them. Also - for the love of jebus - Banners. At the very least Dragon Banner, it's not getting nerfed based on these notes, but should be.. it has strong CC and pretty good damage currently - it'll be abused to high heavens if this goes through. It also triggers traits, which is always fun getting immob'd when bannered.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Trail of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 35 seconds to 50 seconds

    I do not agree with this. Literally the only stunbreak a scourge takes (even though there are core necro skills), as the other options do not offer stability. I guess well of power might be the only other option... OOF

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Please rethink stability nerf on Holosmith. Core engineer offers very little stability and holo being a meele spec needs a reliable source. Maybe make it 1 instead? Or give another stability source to Holo or core.

    [NUKE]

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Spotter's Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.8 to 0.4. Increased immobilize duration from 1 second to 1.5 seconds

    Great.. give condi rifle DE more CC.. and not even look at Spider Venom.. the main damage for that spec.

    You can literally sit at 1500 range and just spam rifle 2 (kneeled) while using spider venom and you can't do anything unless you have the same range as them, and most of the time you don't.

    There is very little counterplay against it.. it is bad for competitive modes..

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Condition damage reductions are a bit less math-y, but we’re continuing to push conditions toward less burst potential by reducing the number of stacks and extending durations where it makes sense. Some of this is handled on the skill level, and we’re also making heavy reductions to traits that apply conditions on hit, on crit, or on other conditions being applied.

    -The Systems Team

    First of, thank you Arenanet, to finally step up to your community and involving us into balancing your Game. That's a big improvement! Secondly can you elaborate what you mean by the statement above, because you are nerfing Power builds alot, basicly at least 20% less damage, so i am afraid that we are facing a conditions Meta coming up with this Patch. I believe, this would leave alot of People frustrated, maybe some of them would leave the game completly. So in order to avoid that, maybe you should crunch the Numbers of condtions aswell.
    Overall though it's a very good and long needed Patch, and i believe it will shift the WvW meta in alot of ways.

    Thank you for keeping your Game fresh after all of these Years!

  • Coalescence of Ruin: Increased cooldown from 4 seconds to 10 seconds

    I would reduce power coefficient instead and raise cooldown by 2-4 secs, you can end up spiking with 2/3 and then you are going to autoattack for 10 secs which doesnt seem like funny gameplay

    Reduced stability duration from 5 seconds to 1 second

    That is too much, cut it just in half

    Condies maybe need more nerfs too, with Traiblazer stats it can scale too much and most ppl like power meta more

  • Ooookay. So long story short: you're making the game harder for everyone and punishing people for not being elitists? kitten, this game is going in the direction of every other "average Joe" MMO. It's going further and further away from the game's original idea of "play how you want". After all these changes, most people will need to remake their builds and change their way of playing. This doesn't look very exciting to me.

    Each time it seems you guys are going one step ahead and two steps backwards. This will have the same effect like Raids: only a small part of the community will love it and most of the players will hate it. But yeah, better boost the ego of a few elitists rather than make the overall community happy, right?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So... how is any one going to be able to kill a lord of a tower or keep / smc before the other team can come in and def? This seems like a massive flaw in this update.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • I understand this is the first of many changes to come, and that every class will have reductions to many skills, but regarding Necromancer, please remember that things like Reaper Shroud degradation have been increased, Shades are not cast on the Scourge, etc. Necro ( as a class ) is heavily reliant on offensive pressure as it's defense. I think many of the changes are good ( to both Necro and every other class ), it's good to see power creep being reduced, but I hope it is taken in to consideration that even with these changes many classes will still be dealing pretty high damage with powerful defenses. Warrior's Endure Pain duration is even being increased. So please remember to keep Necro's offensive pressure as it's way of defending itself. Otherwise it ends up without the damage to force people to stay away from it and without the defenses to handle it when people close the gap.

    I know how bias I sound but it really concerns me at the moment just because of how past changes have gone and the state it has put Necro in. Not necessarily in a bad state ( excluding Scourge, which has been gutted ), but in a vulnerable one.

    Witchery [YWY] | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    Necromancer [☠️] Engineer [🛠️] Ranger [🏹] Warrior [⚔️]
    "Go on living for the sake of drawing breath? That doesn't sound like any kind of life to me."

  • Arzurag.7506Arzurag.7506 Member ✭✭✭

    I won´t give feedback for now, though it seems the new baseline that you want to establish looks pretty solid.
    Well, I´m thrilled to see how these changes play out in the game and when facing other classes.

    "I´m not big on sermons nor words, Broken bones teach better lessons and speak for themselves."

  • Yet again the wall humping bearbow rangers we have as Devs break the game further.

    How about instead of obsessing over damage and healing, you focus on the element that ruins the game? CCCCCCCCCCCC gg can't play your character blobs win gg

  • Please Nerf the Condition this is an overall dmg nerf to power what happened to Condition Dmg thats the big issue with the lack of condi clense already.

  • L A T I O N.8923L A T I O N.8923 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Looks so promising

    For supportive purposes:
    Hope the Tomes on firebrand get slightly nerved as well like
    Initiative system on thief but with no regen (and like 20 cast points)
    Or
    Not Being able.to cast utility

    As a main guard i can approve most of dh and core.changes and hope people can start theorycraft again..and not like 'do i put 2 or 3 scrappers in my 15 man group, and if so would i removed a rev or a scourge?'

    Ofcourse there Will be better options
    But 'pulling everything down would equalize difference a bit. And make the devs work from there..

    Edit: few add words for better grammar

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lot of salt in this thread lol

    I think these changes are a good place to start, boon durations will probably see a slight increase next balance patch =D

  • Will there be any reason to run power in pvp or wvw at all after these change hit?

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    Reducing Mirage's dodges to 1 is absolutely ridiculous.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sven.9435 said:
    Will there be any reason to run power in pvp or wvw at all after these change hit?

    I have a feeling people will still find builds that pretty much insta-kill others.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Thief will be too strong (unkillable) until they nerf shadow arts. The reason is that all the nerfs to the heals and initiative costs are irrelevant when you can hide in stealth forever.

    Aye, a question to all thieves: does the patch really do anything permastealth/constantly repeating stealth builds?
    Damage is nerfed yes but couldnt really see much nerfs to stealth aside from some combo fields. Not really familiar enough with thief skills to tell at a glance though.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • DE meta, yay!

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the preview, @Cal Cohen.2358 ! Hope this will be a regular trend.

    Now for the feedback:

    The 300s cooldown across-the-board of all passive traits is very questionable. Some traits' efficacy are better than others depending on the class and should have a corresponding cooldown or a trigger that would not necessarily make it useless.

    Making the coefficients of Crowd-Control skills baseline is also dumbfounding. Most of them have a x0.01 coefficient while also retaining their old cooldowns and durations. Why would someone prefer one "CC Weapon or Skill" with another if they basically do the same damage? Got to at least have discrepancies with the damage of these skills.

    SKills, Traits and Weapons that are not seeing use and if so, very rarely are also nerfed baseline and thus will still never be or very rarely used.

    Same goes with Specializations. However, this might change as time goes on but I doubt Chronos would be welcome to large group compositions like they used to as the skills that would make them so were heavily nerfed as well.

    The "Usual Suspects" of no counterplay offenders were not addressed. At least they won't be as annoying as before, I guess?

    Territorial Buffs (Guild Objective Aura and Presence of the Keep) are going to be exponentially more potent than before. Please address this.

    Check out the fable of the Boiling Frog.

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Ele feedback.
    Was playing core for years. Switched to weaver because of power creep.

    Core Ele feedback:

    • Drake's Breath: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 6 seconds
      Why ? Dagger is not strong

    • Burning Speed: Increased cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds
      again WHY ??? dagger is not strong

    • Armor of Earth: Increased cooldown from 50 seconds to 60 seconds
      WHY ??? its the ONLY stability skill we have on core ( apart from tornado )

    • Final Shielding: Increased cooldown from 90 seconds to 300 seconds
      ...just remove auto procs already and replace it with something good. the alternative is Elemental Contingency ... a mediocre luck based skill .. nice -_-

    • Lightning Whip: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.63 to 0.42
      still no buff in range ? still only 240 range instead of 300 ?
      its very hard to hit a moving target ... please rethink this skill :)

  • @Dahir.4158 said:
    You're making me cry with all these fat ele nerfs. Why are you doing this? Why?

    Just don't touch it full stop. You've nerfed us too much already. Do what you want with sword, but don't touch anything else.

    ele elites are currently useless kitten. In the future they are not even worth slotting. Why? Nobody uses tornado because it is so bad. Why nerf it?

    The rest: ele isn't hit as much as others, which shows one thing: ELES HAVE BEEN SHAFTED IN THE PAST.

    Just as us ele players have been saying for ages. ANET screwed us over and now they screw us over just a little bit less than anyone else.

    Thieves, mesmers, soulbeasts will still be doing fine - and tempest shouts are dead.

    Not too happy. Good start, but the three are not hit hard enough and the one class that has already no chance against stealth abusers and only's saving grace was decent aoe and raw heal is made even less viable.

  • So, I can't help but wonder. With all the damage nerfs across the board, does this mean NPCs and Keep champs are going to be an absolute young feline to kill now?

  • It’s been years since I logged in to comment on something, but this definitely deserves all the feedback it can get.

    First of all, I am pleased to see what you have come up with so far regarding the damage and healing down-toning along with cool down increases.

    Regarding downstates:
    Do keep in mind that when nerfing reviving skills you need to also nerf the ability to stomp quicker, such as mount stomps from the warclaw. The warclaw stomp should be removed entirely as it promotes passive play until one side gets downs for further snowball effect from mount stomps.

    The reason I mention this is because with the new balance patch so far, there will be less people committing to reviving downstate allies because of less backup from boons and heals. They will become even more vulnerable when attempting to revive. With the mount stomp, the revivers will be completely negated.

    You nerfed reviving traits and skills, remove mount stomp as it serves no purpose but to one-button stomp enemies. This way you balance out the downstate more too and it doesn’t become a “you’re down - you’re dead” state.

  • ele elites are currently useless kitten. In the future they are not even worth slotting. Why? Nobody uses tornado because it is so bad. Why nerf it?

    i agree that ele elite skills are .. not that great.
    but i disagree with tornado.
    Tornado is a great elite skill and with 60 cooldown ( traited 48 ? ) its super good. (stability for save stomp, regen + vigor+ condi cleanse, interrupt, can attack 10 targets / played with leadership rune additional condi cleanse)

  • @Voltekka.2375 said:
    "OMG it has been 7 years, anet cant balance ANYTHING"

    after patch preview hits

    "OMG YOU WASTE 7 YEARS OF BALANCING"

    sad but true lul

  • @borgs.6103 said:
    Thanks for the preview, @Cal Cohen.2358 ! Hope this will be a regular trend.

    Now for the feedback:

    The 300s cooldown across-the-board of all passive traits is very questionable. Some traits' efficacy are better than others depending on the class and should have a corresponding cooldown or a trigger that would not necessarily make it useless.

    Making the coefficients of Crowd-Control skills baseline is also dumbfounding. Most of them have a x0.01 coefficient while also retaining their old cooldowns and durations. Why would someone prefer one "CC Weapon or Skill" with another if they basically do the same damage? Got to at least have discrepancies with the damage of these skills.

    SKills, Traits and Weapons that are not seeing use and if so, very rarely are also nerfed baseline and thus will still never be or very rarely used.

    Same goes with Specializations. However, this might change as time goes on but I doubt Chronos would be welcome to large group compositions like they used to as the skills that would make them so were heavily nerfed as well.

    The "Usual Suspects" of no counterplay offenders were not addressed. At least they won't be as annoying as before, I guess?

    Territorial Buffs (Guild Objective Aura and Presence of the Keep) are going to be exponentially more potent than before. Please address this.

    This is how you give constructive feedback. Why are most people so Pepega here..

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    Thief will be too strong (unkillable) until they nerf shadow arts. The reason is that all the nerfs to the heals and initiative costs are irrelevant when you can hide in stealth forever.

    Aye, a question to all thieves: does the patch really do anything permastealth/constantly repeating stealth builds?
    Damage is nerfed yes but couldnt really see much nerfs to stealth aside from some combo fields. Not really familiar enough with thief skills to tell at a glance though.

    hidden patch notes:
    we removed thief and its elite spec from competitive because stealth is not balanceable.

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2020

    Really nice first step. Especially the reduction of the power coefficients on hard CC skills. The only big problem i foresee is that:

    Heals will be too strong overall, still. Unless DPS skills, heals land everytime and can be easily applied to 5 targets especially in WvW. I think you will need to cut these down a bit further, especially the heals that target allies only.

    Damaging Conditions have been gutted a little bit too hard from reading trough most of it. It was already hard to kill things with condition damage in group scenarios, because of the massive spam of condition cleanses. You now reduced condition duration a bit, as well as the amount of condis applied in a lot of cases, while not limiting the amount of condi clears by all that much. You should focus on making condition damage and power damage equally lethal and town down the condition cleanses - especially those that apply to allies as well - by a lot.

    Also - what you really should adress asap is the random CC on ranger pets. Thats one of the most unfun, unskilled, and random machanics in place.

    • Blink: Increased cooldown from 30 seconds to 35 seconds
    • Mantra of Distraction: Reduced diversion recharge from 15 seconds to 10 seconds
    • Power Spike (from Mantra of Pain): Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.45. Adjusted vulnerability from 5 stacks for 8 seconds to 12 stacks for 6 seconds

    Mirage

    • Mirage Cloak: This trait now reduces the mirage's endurance by 50 in competitive modes

    My thoughts:

    • Increase Blink cooldown to 40 seconds, its still an easy getaway
    • Increase Mantra of Distraction cooldown to 25 seconds would be a lot more healthy
    • Power Spike (from Mantra of Pain) now this is the real problem, I am surprised you didnt increase the cooldown on this to 5 or 8 seconds, its easily spammable, and even now stacking up to 12 stacks of vulnerability, I would confidently say that this is a buff to oneshot mesmer play style, the 8 secs to 6 secs is completely inconsequential because a good mesmer only need 1 to 2 seconds to burst someone down in that time window or he is not doing anything at all, now from 6 to 12 stacks of vulnerability,
      this gonna be in a whole more world of pain, when most passive traits that prevent oneshotting have been increased to 300 seconds cooldown, yep 300.

    • Mirage Cloak: I am a bit confused on this, does it mean that Mirage Cloak is now a trait that you can take or you can just dont and have normal dodge on mirage and if you take the trait you only have one endurance bar?

    Please rework Druid, Chrono, buff Ele, and Renegade they are absolutely useless.

    So sweet... So cold... if only the others could taste it...
    So...so good... The crunch of bones...makes it go away, only for a little while...

  • Throw Mine: Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.01. Increased boons removed from 1 to 3

    1. Its unblockable
    2. Hits 5 targets.
    3. With traitline you can throw 2 extra more mines meaning in total you can corrupt 15 boons.

    Why are we heading to the path of hard condition pirateship with heavy corruption again???

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    World vs Wet Noodles must be the new game mode name. Although so many ways to troll people if these changes actually go in like this. Plus all the condi kitten no one really likes I might troll some people for a little bit but if this is what happens I am pretty sure I'll just say I had my fun but its over now this stuff is just really really horrible plus the classes who are squishy but yet rely on their big damage numbers will get so screwed they will be unplayable.

  • Ranger protective Ward staying at 15 sec cd in wvw? shouldnt all passives get nerfed?